Obviously agree on that. It’s the statement that sounds more factual than speculative.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Hopefully the weekend results will focus minds. The new Champions League rules will give the Glazers comfort unfortunately. If EPL has 5 slots then City/Arsenal, United/Newcastle, Liverpool/Spurs becomes the new normal top six and they can hang on for a bit. The pressure to finish fourth is reduced and less heat from below.
Didn’t realise the guy has links to the Glazers actually. Could be something in it.
Unfortunately/fortunately, dependent how you spin it, the problems are a bit more structural than anything that can be deferred through merely guaranteeing CL income...
The main question would be whether he's merely sure that's what they're going to accept as the minimum price, or whether they've actually been offered that following further talks and accepted it...
You have misinterpreted.
My point was regarding advantages to the Glazers.
I do and did not dispute one of those three outcomes being decisive. Though not equally bad they are still all bad, however, and absolutely no cause for celebration.
The uncertainty with Qatar is how they will manage the club. Gentrifying Trafford, Qatarington and 'no more debt!' do not equal great management. The evidence of their psg debacle shows a merry-go-round of mediocrity against serious opposition.
could be mixed up with dollars. Could be 6B sale plus debt payment and potential investment
I feel like that valuation is oddly specific for him to simply just be speculating.
7.2 million is dollars if its true.
It'll happen in December I reckon.
That figure must be in dollars.
Could it be that they gone silent because of not want to inflate the sum of transfers? New owner equals more money, at least according to the selling club.
So maybe new info after that the window closes?
So maybe new info after that the window closes?
Doubt it's much of anything.
Why are sports journalists incapable of grasping the concept of exchange rates?
Ratcliffe?
There's no hope of any of them doing a Robert Maxwell is there?
Yeah Ziegler tweeted something about INEOS trying to find ways of breaking the deadlock as he has suggested takeover has stalled
Bankrupting a massive corporation by stealing from the pension funds ?
I think that's the easy part when you got the capital, a bit of humility and intelligence. Just get the very best football operator out there, give him a few good scouts and build on an existing core. Do you think if Woodward, instead of jumping onto the Moyes bandwagon in 2013, had brought in a guy a Rangnick/Lui Campos he wouldn't have engineered a title or two? He jus happened to favour a structure that made hin central in an industry he didn't know much about and that's what had cost the Glazers at the end.
think that’s your man’s point though chief.psg do not know who the best football people are and United already have the capital to procure and maintain top staff. psg are a complete disaster in such an area they go through staff like flies to shit. sheikhywhatshisface having deeper pockets means he will be another woodward getting it wrong most of the time and such.
not really his capital either. his superfund or whatever will be filled up by state actors with washing Qatar’s dictatorship image through football. in one sense this is good because it means it has to be good but no guarantee just means endless transfers managerial appointments et al, a bit like more woodward and his tell all nonsense.
dunno if I agree probably probably
sorry but ziegler does not care for qatar and is probably hoping Ineos will win which they will certainly not. United are turning into a sportswashing vehicle with fans armed with ‘yeah but the west’ arguments they cannot justify under scrutiny. A Red city. Way it is So get oneself used to it.
If people look through my various posts I’ve always said that 100% sale is £7.2-7.4 billion and called stupid, crazy. I’ll explain for the final time;
The Glazers want £6 billion for their 69% shares not £6 billion for 100% of the club they want to be paid £6 billion as a family to give up control.
The Club owes £535m historical debt for the LBO which is the responsibility of the Glazers so that would have to be paid off first to multiple lenders then the Glazers are paid the remaining of what’s left from £6bn.
The other debt is transfer amortisation debt and internal running of the club debt which can be settled and worked on when new owners take control.
The remaining 31% of the club are class A shares which the Glazers also own 4.3% of the total class A shares. So the Glazers have an interest and an obligation to get a good enterprise share value for these class A shares as well at say $35/36 per share..
There are 50m shares so that’s another $1.75bn or £1.378bn so add that to the £6bn for the Glazers inclusive of £535m debt and you have a combined fee of £7.2-7.4bn to buy 100% of the club.
It’s also important to note that of the 50 million class A Shares, the Glazers own 6.9m of those shares so they would receive an additional $248m or £195 million.
In other words after the debt for the LBO has been paid to the various lenders the Glazers will walk away with approximately £5.7bn between the 6 of them.
2030-I hope we make significant strides in reducing the global CO2 footprint and see a huge shift towards clean energy.
The debt is in the club's name though. Anyone who buys the club inherits the debt. So whatever the Glazer's get for their shares they will walk away with.
Nope
That is not how these transactions work and you're literally preaching to someone who's got experience on the topic.
So when companies heavily indebted get bought for a token amount, what's that all about? Like when Ken Bates bought Chelsea for £1 back in the day.
I'm sure there are big differences but is it standard practice to expect previous owners of a company to clear debts as part of a sale? Genuine question. And apologies if already answered but I'm not scrolling back through the entire thread.
You gotta hand it to those Ferengi Glazers man you do. Played Jas like a kipper running Ratters to jump their price up, seen qatar coming a mile off and treated themselves to some and I quote ‘Trafford Gentrification’ money yum yum
Put nothing whatsoever in either Did they? Made their pal woodward 14 million smackers richer a few others getting their cut
Do not you worry big lad that debt is going too much qatari state money for it not to. Now United can win trophies they won under the glazers faster or some shit
Yeah, we've discussed it at length but Enterprise Value (generally how these deals are valued), usually include the debt because often there are covenants (clauses) in the debt which oblige new owners to repay the debt to the current creditors (which makes sense).
Now the issue with our deal is that it's so opaque with regard to the actual numbers (no one knows and those that know are keeping quiet). So some of these numbers quoted can easily included or exclude debt.
Basically, debt is usually part of the price, so if the price is £7bn, it probably means Glazers want 6bn for themselves.
The debt is in the clubs name but it’s underwritten by the Glazer Family in other words when they inherited Malcolm’s Assets they also inherited his debt responsibilities and in the event of a full 100% sale and key important issue here, withdrawal from the NYSE then the debt must be paid in full to complete the full sale process, hope this clears this up, if a new majority shareholder takes majority control and the club is not withdrawn from NYSE the debt can remain, be refinanced or continues as it has been, with the club paying upwardly of £20m of interest annually.
Exactly that with the caveat that they also want their 6.9 million A class shares as well so they want a cayman island fair price enterprise value of $35-38 per share and that’s why Radcliffe bid is current DOA he has made no offer at all to the A class shareholders.
See we are completely on the sane page,
I 100% agree with you and for the record I’ve worked at Sun capital for 25 years so also have a wealth of experience with these type of deals, for a very long time many fans on here believed that the glazers only wanted 69% of a £6bn bid minus the club debt, that is not the case the Glazer siblings want £6bn to relinquish controlling stake of the club.
Newcastle didn't have such issues though and it highlights the simplicity of it all. If you have got money you surround yourself with the best operators around and give them the floor to do their thing. It's true in sport and in any business and it takes an idiot of Woodward levels to fail at that.
When the Saudis came in at Newcastle I think they poached Leicester's DoF/TD and they have had some wonderful bargains in the market in Guimaras, Isak et al. FFP wise they are probably beating us and have constructed as strong a squad as ours at a fraction of the expense. If Eddie Howe establishes them in the top 4 they are probably looking at a marquee signing or two to propel a title challenge and they will do it in two or three years. They haven't even spent outrageous amounts.
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Yeah, my point was you're the one with experience
. I've worked in the sector but nowhere near as long as you have, so that's why I'm telling some guys on here to read to what you're writingThanks both. Makes sense now.
I realise that a lot of you want the club sold, and so do I.
Nobody here dislikes the Glazers more than me on this forum.
But many of you are "reaching". Put simply, nothing is happening. The bids are in. The Glazers are not happy with any of the bids and are mulling it over.
If they decide to stay, then that's what will happen. if they decide to accept the highest bid, then that's what will happen.
And the longer they delay, the more dividend payments they'll receive, so it's not like they are sitting on a depreciating asset which is making a loss for them.
They are in no rush to sell.
Nobody here dislikes the Glazers more than me on this forum.
But many of you are "reaching". Put simply, nothing is happening. The bids are in. The Glazers are not happy with any of the bids and are mulling it over.
If they decide to stay, then that's what will happen. if they decide to accept the highest bid, then that's what will happen.
And the longer they delay, the more dividend payments they'll receive, so it's not like they are sitting on a depreciating asset which is making a loss for them.
They are in no rush to sell.
Not necessarily… strong reports coming in that the Glazers are delaying because they’re having to find ways to get Jim’s offer over the line.
Essentially, the non involved Glazers going and Utd being ran by the two goblins and Brexit Jim.
Even with the financial muscle of INEOS I’m struggling to see how they would want to raise £7bn+ of finance to buy Utd, with all the ancillary investment costs needed in addition.
If they want to go with INEOS it’s more likely they fear that Qatar would do a better job and show them up as the mugs they are.
As if they'd give a damn.
It's not in one go is the plan... Or even keep some Glazers on board. So instead of buying out all the Glazers, they buy out the ones who want out and use the money from Avram and Joel on the Class A to prevent a lawsuit.
I still don't see how it happens but the fact it's stalled seems to me like they think there's a way... I hope they fail, of course.
This has been my opinion for ages.
They’re very egotistical, fragile and seem very concerned with being shown to be inept - ironic given that they can’t stop making inept decisions.
Their relationship with Utd is completely toxic at this point. They know they can’t compete with the big boys anymore but seem reluctant to step away.
Obviously it was given to them by their Father also, which I think makes it more psychologically complicated for them.
But for sure, they don’t want Utd to be taken over by an owner who will swiftly show them to be utterly incompetent - they won’t want Utd to succeed after them.
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