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What, exactly, is not his fault?Scored just less than 1 in 3 for Atalanta. Will end up with similar numbers for us. It’s not the kids fault.
What his ratio the season before last? Why not plot a line from there via last season if you’re trying to predict the future?Scored just less than 1 in 3 for Atalanta. Will end up with similar numbers for us. It’s not the kids fault.
I remember seeing a goals per minute graph and it looks a lot better. I think a number of those appearances were as a sub.Scored just less than 1 in 3 for Atalanta. Will end up with similar numbers for us. It’s not the kids fault.
To be fair, if we had signed another established, ready striker Rasmus would hardly get any playing time at all, which wouldn't be ideal for his age. He needs to be playing every game at this age in order to progress, but, not at a club as big as United.What his ratio the season before last? Why not plot a line from there via last season if you’re trying to predict the future?
For what it’s worth, I’d be fine with 1 in 3 this season. New league, 20 year old kid, dysfunctional team. Realistically he was signed as a long term prospect anyway. Which we needed regardless. There’s nobody else at the club who plays his position with that sort of potential.
What screws us is the lack of funds available to sign another, more established player in the same position. Because we could definitely do with one.
He could share minutes with another striker and develop just fine. At the moment this striker is Anthony Martial but we all know he will be injured again very soon and should really have been replaced years ago. A Cavani (before he got the hump about Ronaldo) type signing would have been perfect.To be fair, if we had signed another established, ready striker Rasmus would hardly get any playing time at all, which wouldn't be ideal for his age. He needs to be playing every game at this age in order to progress, but, not at a club as big as United.
How do you routinely generate tap ins for a striker from an inverted winger, who attacks the channel between the opposition’s back four and midfield? Antony (almost literally) never goes outside his man and doesn’t use his right foot at all.I'm hoping Antony when he's back can start whipping it in from his side, I think Hojlund will get a load of tap ins from him.
Not only this, but I remember doing a post somewhere where I looked into 18-20 years in their debut season in the PL and the actual top level ones were scoring around 11-17 or so.Scored just less than 1 in 3 for Atalanta. Will end up with similar numbers for us. It’s not the kids fault.
I don’t understand the attitude embodied in this post. Sure, I’m glad to hear you’ve nothing against the kid but I can’t think of a reason why, (as a fan of this club) you would have.Nothing against the kid but I think it's going to play out just like I expected. We spent a ton of money on a striker that is going to score a trifling number of goals and in the end the money spent will have not generated any measurable improvement on where the club finish in the league or in cups.
Basically, just like the Onana transfer.
I don’t think that’s true. SAF played very many young players. Yes the team was better but he wouldn’t have waited around - he played his best players.It’s probably a bit unfair to expect a young player with very little experience to come in and be relied upon as the main striker at Manchester United. I know people get bored of talk like this, but Sir Alex would never have put so much pressure on a young player, he would have brought a young player into a team that was already functioning well, and where that player could be eased in as and when appropriate, and given a break from it when needed.
Did you also look at Hojlund’s numbers?Not only this, but I remember doing a post somewhere where I looked into 18-20 years in their debut season in the PL and the actual top level ones were scoring around 11-17 or so.
In their first major seasons:
Owen (18); Lukaku (17); Fowler (12); Martial (11); Greenwood (10); Alli (10)…
So I believe with Haller, he tended to cut in and cross it, with Haller making a run to the near post and using the pace of the ball to glance it in. Will try to find an example, but I'm pretty sure this was the case.How do you routinely generate tap ins for a striker from an inverted winger, who attacks the channel between the opposition’s back four and midfield? Antony (almost literally) never goes outside his man and doesn’t use his right foot at all.
It's especially terrible when he visibly drags the team down when not playing well, there would be some form of excuse if he was working his socks off and making the right passes, but the goals weren't coming.A lot of the talk when we signed him was that having a strong, fast, mobile, hardworking number 9 would occupy defenders more than they were last season, which would make Rashford even more productive. Hojlund isn’t expected to be our main goalscorer. Rashford is.
So far Hojlund is ticking all of those boxes. It’s time for Rashford to start scoring. One goal in seven is a terrible return for a player of his status. The SNAFU on the right wing obviously doesn’t help either. Hopefully Antony’s return will improve us.
Yeah, not a tap in and still a reasonably difficult chance, but thank you for going to the effort to illustrate it.So I believe with Haller, he tended to cut in and cross it, with Haller making a run to the near post and using the pace of the ball to glance it in. Will try to find an example, but I'm pretty sure this was the case.
Edit: @TMDaines I expect this to be a bit more dynamic, but you get the idea.
https://youtube.com/shorts/wjn_cooBR44?si=b0vU-ExDzcsAsynl
Like starting an 18 year old striker in a Champions League match and watching him bag a hat trick.It’s probably a bit unfair to expect a young player with very little experience to come in and be relied upon as the main striker at Manchester United. I know people get bored of talk like this, but Sir Alex would never have put so much pressure on a young player, he would have brought a young player into a team that was already functioning well, and where that player could be eased in as and when appropriate, and given a break from it when needed.
It's a simple cost/benefit analysis, that's all. Being a striker the measurables are as straightforward as can be: a club spends X amount of money on a striker, and he provides Y number of goals for you. If the production is there, it was worth the money, if it isn't, it wasn't.I don’t understand the attitude embodied in this post. Sure, I’m glad to hear you’ve nothing against the kid but I can’t think of a reason why, (as a fan of this club) you would have.
He is a boy. 20 years old. Younger than Pellistri for example. Younger than Hannibal. Are you so negative that you can’t see potential in this lad.
I suppose for the money you want the finished article? I’m afraid that costs even more.
You’re disappointed and passing judgement after he’s played, what, four games for us? In which time he’s played (along with Cavani) more like a proper CF than any player we’ve had in years.
He’s a full international with several goals already. His movement is good, he’s strong and very pacy he gets into goalscoring positions and with better luck he’d have had two or three goals for us already. His touch might be a bit heavy thus far but he’s still barely match fit.
Do you honestly believe he won’t get better?
Andy Cole rarely scoring goals out of nothing during his early years here. Most often it’s easy chances putting on plate for him inside the box where he keep squandering. He was very good at making perfectly time runs into the box though. But his overall game and goalscoring touch did improve a lot during his latter years here (especially with his partnership with Yorke).Speaking of him; it is true that Andy Cole was missing chances but he was also scoring goals out of nothing, scoring half chances, scoring from tight angles and making perfectly timed runs to be in right spot.
So, my point is that excuse for Man Utd striker (no matter who he is, how much he was payed or how old he is) can't be "those were not clear chances so you can't expect him to score from there". If that is the case then we could have just bought Ings for 10-15 million.
All 3 chances which Hojlund had were solid chances. Not clear chances of course but all 3 were goal scoring chances and for me, Man Utd striker must score at least one of those. At least.
You wouldn’t do that analysis after four games though, surely?It's a simple cost/benefit analysis, that's all. Being a striker the measurables are as straightforward as can be: a club spends X amount of money on a striker, and he provides Y number of goals for you. If the production is there, it was worth the money, if it isn't, it wasn't.
I just think this signing was another example of us not doing signings the right way. When it comes to strikers, I think you do it one of two ways; you spend big on the sure thing, like the Kanes and the Osimhens and the Haalands of the world, or you scout properly and develop a young player who you might be able to turn into the next Kane or Osimhen or Haaland. If it's the former, you know they're gonna get you the 25+ goals that you desperately need from that position, and if it's the latter, and it doesn't work out, there's not much of a sunk cost because the initial investment was low.
But what do we do, we go and spend 70 million on a kid who is a diamond in the rough and comes with absolutely zero reasonable expectation of an immediate return on investment, which is something you pretty much have to have when you spend that kind of money on a player.
This is why I love baseball and its many interesting forms of statistical analysis. In baseball, you can use data to determine a player's WAR- wins above replacement. This is how much we spent on this player, and that is how many extra wins he provided our team this season. There's really no ambiguity when it comes to whether or not you made a good investment.
Maybe tap in is a bit strong, but done right, he should be getting headers in and around the 6 yard box - with the pace already on the ball, heading towards the goal.Yeah, not a tap in and still a reasonably difficult chance, but thank you for going to the effort to illustrate it.
We bought Cole at the back of an incredible season, where he scored 41 goals in 45 games with a Premier League team. So he's proven that he could score incredibly well. Meanwhile...Andy Cole rarely scoring goals out of nothing during his early years here. Most often it’s easy chances putting on plate for him inside the box where he keep squandering. He was very good at making perfectly time runs into the box though. But his overall game and goalscoring touch did improve a lot during his latter years here (especially with his partnership with Yorke).
I thought about that as a possible option. I was actually thinking Martial left and Rashford right with Hojlund down the middle. In any case it would be interesting to see Martial at LW playing with a proper CF. I’m not a big Martial fan but why not have a look at it?This is the frustration with rashford, there has been so many times in recent games where hojlund could have been played in but rashford went for "glory".
I wonder if martial would be better for hojlund on the left. (shudder)
Yeah. I feel similarly with Antony. Feels like massive overpayment where clubs have taken advantage of our lack of agility in the market.But what do we do, we go and spend 70 million on a kid who is a diamond in the rough and comes with absolutely zero reasonable expectation of an immediate return on investment, which is something you pretty much have to have when you spend that kind of money on a player.
Anthony doesn’t cross, he can not use his right foot, he slows things down, Jesus I hope this man is charged with something and is found guilty so Utd will get rid, he’s bloody hopeless as a right winger, how can a right winger have no fecking right foot?I'm hoping Antony when he's back can start whipping it in from his side, I think Hojlund will get a load of tap ins from him.
Fecking awful post....Anthony doesn’t cross, he can not use his right foot, he slows things down, Jesus I hope this man is charged with something and is found guilty so Utd will get rid, he’s bloody hopeless as a right winger, how can a right winger have no fecking right foot?
This is down to ETH, if he’s not charged with anything then why not move Antony to the left, see how he gets on there? He might be able to cross the ball then for Rasmus to score a few.
I'm not going to get involved at this stage as it's too early - but this is a misleading stat that is trotted out far too regularly. Most of those appearances were not full 90mins.Scored just less than 1 in 3 for Atalanta. Will end up with similar numbers for us. It’s not the kids fault.
Think that would be even less affordable than Kane + Hojlund really.Should've invested in Osimhen with Hojlund as an understudy until he develops a bit more. Remember when we had 2/3 viable strikers under Fergie? I know the game has moved on a bit but we've stuck with deadwood for far too long (Martial/Weg/Rashford pegged into the 9). We've also sat on the Greenwood situation without adapting for the obvious.
Look at Alvarez at City. Barely got a sniff despite his huge potential, now look at him.
Depressing how our leaders at the club have no vision. Going the way of Blockbuster.
So what does this tell us then, that he shouldn’t have been bought and expected to start every game in a 50+ season campaign?I'm not going to get involved at this stage as it's too early - but this is a misleading stat that is trotted out far too regularly. Most of those appearances were not full 90mins.
Hojlunds goals per minute ratio was in the 95th percentile at Atalanta. Its also in the 95th percentile for Denmark in Euro Qualifiers.
That was a team that was already functioning wellLike starting an 18 year old striker in a Champions League match and watching him bag a hat trick.
