Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Rood]

It's mentioned because I have a daughter of my own, and if you think I would ever support someone who uttered the words he did you're crazy. Proven guilty or not, I heard what I heard.

The fact people heard that and want him back purely because he's a good footballer is crazy to me.

If you read this thread you will see that it's not purely because he's a good footballer (not for everyone anyway), there are many other viewpoints.

On the whole 'I have a daughter of my own ...' thing, your reaction to the horrible audio is only normal - but dont forget that Greenwood's partner also has a mother and father who obviously know a lot more than you about what happened, they have accepted their daughter being back with him and I would assume that they would prefer they were all back in Manchester.

 

[golden_blunder]

Keep seeing these kind of posts about values and being a family club. United has always been a club about second chances and come backs. We have given second chances to many players in similar situations. Cantona kicked a fan live, was banned, and we fought to bring him back. We lost the busby babes, came back and won in Europe...Giggs and his scandals etc. I could go on and on but United is the one club that is about second chances.

Furthermore Family club doesnt mean what people think it means. It means doing exactly this.... giving players second chances. Whats special about a family if they only give you a chance when you life is going well . Its crazy that people really think Family means behave right or you are out. I am absolutely sure that barring disciplinary problems, Ferguson would give GW a second chance.

I actually think that it is precisely because manutd have become a commercial club that they now even consider social media oppinions before they decide such things. This decision should not come down to social media...it should be a conversation in the club with the teams and mangers he will work with day to day. If they are NOT convinced by the explanations for the evidence we saw online or if they have doubts about his discipline then he should be let go. But this idea that United of old wouldn't do this is a big huge lie...we used to do exactly this....second chances was exactly what we were about.

First of, leave names of legends out of it, completely irrelevant, they did not get accused of sexual assault

secondly I believe Fergie would have had him out the door ala Morrison, who he literally sold to try and break the circles he was running in. We’ve heard about this couple for months via Reddit before this all broke. Fergie would have clamped down and got shot if he did not settle down. His mantra after all was no player bigger than the club

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

First of, leave names of legends out of it, completely irrelevant, they did not get accused of sexual assault

secondly I believe Fergie would have had him out the door ala Morrison, who he literally sold to try and break the circles he was running in. We’ve heard about this couple for months via Reddit before this all broke. Fergie would have clamped down and got shot if he did not settle down. His mantra after all was no player bigger than the club

Nah Fergie would've opened the car door in that one video and said "I'm the fecking daddy you two little shits, now get back to Carrington and start training before so knock yer arse off, lad."

 

[P-Nut]

If you read this thread you will see that it's not purely because he's a good footballer (not for everyone anyway), there are many other viewpoints.

On the whole 'I have a daughter of my own ...' thing, your reaction to the horrible audio is only normal - but dont forget that Greenwood's partner also has a mother and father who obviously know a lot more than you about what happened, they have accepted their daughter being back with him and I would assume that they would prefer they were all back in Manchester.

Oh I know there are a minority that want him back as a sort of rehabilitation, but that isn't the overwhelming sentiment that you get from reading the thread. I'm actually all for reform, I just don't think I should be expected to welcome them back without any actual sign of remorse, or an explanation (which I know will never happen). Without either we are expected to make up our own minds about what happened.

As for the victims parents, I have my own opinions on that, starting from the opening statement when the images and audio were first released.

 

[golden_blunder]

Oh I know there are a minority that want him back as a sort of rehabilitation, but that isn't the overwhelming sentiment that you get from reading the thread. I'm actually all for reform, I just don't think I should be expected to welcome them back without any actual sign of remorse, or an explanation (which I know will never happen). Without either we are expected to make up our own minds about what happened.

As for the victims parents, I have my own opinions on that, starting from the opening statement when the images and audio were first released.

I’ll hold my opinion on them too, the father reacted very quickly. I would have expected him to let the dust settle and support his daughter.

 

[luke511]

On the topic of supporting the victim, Greenwood’s return prevents an unholy amount of vitriol targeted towards her. Would fans that oppose his return be a bit more open with the idea if it means she’s getting the protection she needs?

 

[Jippy]

.

The historic progression from the Busby Babes to Greenwood on the flow of second chances is seamless

 

[Wibble]

I’ve found the opposite to be true, in respect of your last sentence. Most local fans I talk to wouldn’t dream of wanting him back. The online community seem far more keen on bringing him back, in my experience.

Agreed. I don't know a single United fan in real life who wants him back.

 

[Rood]

Oh I know there are a minority that want him back as a sort of rehabilitation, but that isn't the overwhelming sentiment that you get from reading the thread. I'm actually all for reform, I just don't think I should be expected to welcome them back without any actual sign of remorse, or an explanation (which I know will never happen). Without either we are expected to make up our own minds about what happened.

As for the victims parents, I have my own opinions on that, starting from the opening statement when the images and audio were first released.

Rehabilitation/second chances is just one of the other reasons, Im not sure how good a gage of general fanbase sentiment this thread is anyway.

I actually agree that there will have to be some kind of explanation/apology to have any chance of him returning, I dont think it's impossible either.

I know the speculation about her father, I think a lot have jumped to conclusions based on his statement given at what would obviously have been a stressful time for the family. I assume he was pushed for comment by the tabloids, not clear if they showed up at his house or what exactly.

 

[sebsheep]

The historic progression from the Busby Babes to Greenwood on the flow of second chances is seamless

Bit confused how that all makes sense in someone's mind

 

[Raoul]

Agreed. I don't know a single United fan in real life who wants him back.

The opposite here. I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't want him back - a view that's generally based on how calamitously ineffective our attack is.

 

[Wibble]

There are a lot of awful analogies being pushed in this thread. If you have to reach as far as Mike fecking Tyson, just stop. Your argument is weak, unlike Mike Tyson

What isn't getting as much pushback are the following misguided opinions stated as fact:

1. Anything other than banishment from United is a wider statement around DV in society

2. Anyone for his return doesn't care about DV

3. Having a separate conversation about Greenwood and football strictly (as was attempted in the other thread that was closed due to an, um, episode of sorts) reflects poorly on the forum or United

Sounds good. They're false though.

1) exactly why he isn't at United now
2) they may think they do but ....
3) this exactly how it appeared to many. We have the posts and reports to prove it. It wasn't true but optics matter.

So not false then.

 

[Wibble]

The opposite here. I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't want him back - a view that's generally based on how calamitously ineffective our attack is.

All the United fans I know don't give a toss about our form when it comes to this issue. I was surprised when my son (who I hadn't previously discussed Greenwood with) said he doubted he could support United if Greenwood ever played for us again. And he is a far more fanatical United fan than I am now.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

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[adexkola]

1) exactly why he isn't at United now
2) they may think they do but ....
3) this exactly how it appeared to many. We have the posts and reports to prove it. It wasn't true but optics matter.

So mot false then.

Your posts on this matter haven't been the most cohesive or enlightening to be honest.

Some people have admitted they're viewing this from a completely emotive and/or personal perspective, and that's fair. Some like me are coming from a completely amoral perspective, just pounds and pence (without the stupid analogies).

It's possible to have an opinion without projecting values on the set of fans who view this differently.

 

[Raoul]

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They play both Madrid and Barca in Feb. Will be interesting to see how he performs against both.

 

[Wibble]

Your posts on this matter haven't been the most cohesive or enlightening to be honest.

Some people have admitted they're viewing this from a completely emotive and/or personal perspective, and that's fair. Some like me are coming from a completely amoral perspective, just pounds and pence (without the stupid analogies).

It's possible to have an opinion without projecting values on the set of fans who view this differently.

I'm not at all emotive about this. An organisation like United should stand for something and if we are so desperate for players that we can tolerate someone like Greenwood back we obviously have no standards. Few if any would want Giggs back yet many want to give Greenwood a free pass for even worse moral and ethical failings. If the club has fallen so far (and who knows given how far it has already fallen) that kicking a ball is important enough to ignore all other considerations, then the club that I have supported pretty much since birth (60 years now) is so altered as not to be the same club.

 

[Solius]

I will once again state that his 'second chance' was firstly not going to prison and secondly being allowed to play football at a reasonable level again. More than many, many people would get in that situation.

 

[luke511]

I'm not at all emotive about this. An organisation like United should stand for something and if we are so desperate for players that we can tolerate someone like Greenwood back we obviously have no standards. Few if any would want Giggs back yet many want to give Greenwood a free pass for even worse moral and ethical failings. If the club has fallen so far (and who knows given how far it has already fallen) that kicking a ball is important enough to ignore all other considerations, then the club that I have supported pretty much since birth (60 years now) is so altered as not to be the same club.

What if the club is standing by his partner, and protecting her from another form of abuse?

 

[Pronewbie]

You can see the steady improvements in his physicality mainly. At the start, he wasn't that into games because he was lacking in strength, pace and stamina. Now, he's seemingly close to getting those things back - holding the ball under pressure, beating opposition players with pace down the wing, remaining effective in the latter stages of games.

His technique remained strong. It's just that, now, his improvements regarding his physicality are allowing him to showcase said technique. Come next season, I think whoever has him will have a very good player on their hands from the get go.

Agreed. It's coming together nicely for him. I see a bit more thrust in his play too, just based off highlights of course.

 

[Wibble]

What if the club is standing by his partner, and protecting her from another form of abuse?

What are you on about?

 

[luke511]

What are you on about?

The hatred she will receive if he’s sold.

 

[padzilla]

On the topic of supporting the victim, Greenwood’s return prevents an unholy amount of vitriol targeted towards her. Would fans that oppose his return be a bit more open with the idea if it means she’s getting the protection she needs?

The answer for me is an unequivocal no. He should never play for United again at this point, if he does then it will be too much for large numbers of our support.

 

[flameinthesun]

The opposite here. I've yet to meet anyone who doesn't want him back - a view that's generally based on how calamitously ineffective our attack is.

All the United fans I know don't give a toss about our form when it comes to this issue. I was surprised when my son (who I hadn't previously discussed Greenwood with) said he doubted he could support United if Greenwood ever played for us again. And he is a far more fanatical United fan than I am now.

and both can be true. There likely are a lot of fans that don't want him back and a lot of fans that wouldn't mind him back. Probably also a lot of fans who will accept whatever the club's decision is. I think trying to frame the narrative to suggest that the majority of United fans wouldn't accept him back is disingenuous, just as proposing the oppposite would be. Redcafe's own polls suggested it wasnt as clear cut as some would try and make it out to be.

 

[RuudTom83]

So in the league he is currently on 3 goals in 15 games, scoring against Celta Vigo(17th) Almeria(20th) and Sevilla(16th)

I'm not sure those stats are good enough to change anyone's mind at United tbh.

 

[Ghirahim]

Arsenal want to sign him.

 

[TsuWave]

So in the league he is currently on 3 goals in 15 games, scoring against Celta Vigo(17th) Almeria(20th) and Sevilla(16th)

I'm not sure those stats are good enough to change anyone's mind at United tbh.

He plays for Getafe. As a wide forward/winger. He has stood out considerably in some of their games. When people say he’s doing well performance wise they’re likely assessing more than “goals to games” ratio.

 

[luke511]

So in the league he is currently on 3 goals in 15 games, scoring against Celta Vigo(17th) Almeria(20th) and Sevilla(16th)

I'm not sure those stats are good enough to change anyone's mind at United tbh.

Wide midfielders in a 4-4-2 don’t score as many goals as they would in say a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3. That in combination with La Liga average goal total being the lowest out of the top 5 leagues could explain why he isn’t hitting big numbers (as well as his initial warming back into football).

 

[Cheimoon]

I have been following this thread from the beginning, and, in my opinion, this one thread is the best way to have any and all discussions about Greenwood.

You can't have a discussion about his performances at Getafe without discussing why he is in Getafe in the first place and what United will do after his loan to Getafe has finished. If anything, it's the more nuanced and intelligent way of discussing his worth to United.

What I have seen in this thread a lot, is a pattern of new posters entering this thread, usually giddy over some highlight or stat, and not fully appreciating the context of his performances, followed by long term posters in this thread, with well practiced replies, reminding these new posters of the context of why he's in Getafe and why, in their opinion, he shouldn't come back.

What does happen, however, is the new posters are unaware of how much practice the long term posters have, so they proceed to perceive that they are getting piled in on, because they are thinking of debating points on the fly, whereas the long term posters have been resusing their debate points for months.

Unfortunately, this leads to emotional responses, like "I hope said poster never gets pushed too far by a woman", which then leads to bannings.

Personally, from the only evidence I have been privvy to, I think Greenwood is a cnut and I never want him to be associated with my club ever again. But I'm a CA and CSA survivor, so my view will always be through that lense, and I appreciate that others' won't.

However, I do want my club to profit from the little shit, and his performances for Getafe are directly relevant to that. At the same time, I do want those posters who are unaware or ill informed about the subject of DV, the accusations and the evidence that's out in the public sphere, to be informed of the severity of the situation and why a few decent performances don't tip the balance of whether he should come back.

You can't have no thread, because he's still a contracted United player, and you can't have two because that was brutal, so this one thread is the best way to discuss him.

This is a great post, thanks for sharing.

The historic progression from the Busby Babes to Greenwood on the flow of second chances is seamless

I'm just left wondering now what the Busby Babes were guilty off and needed a second chance for.

 

[Wibble]

The hatred she will receive if he’s sold.

You are saying we should keep him in case some nutcase fans hate her and abuse her if he is sold?

Wow.

 

[luke511]

You are saying we should keep him in case some nutcase fans hate her and abuse her if he is sold?

Wow.

Yes, what’s so shocking about that? What’s best for her has to be priority, as the victim.

 

[adexkola]

He plays for Getafe. As a wide forward/winger. He has stood out considerably in some of their games. When people say he’s doing well performance wise they’re likely assessing more than “goals to games” ratio.

And it's an asinine point. For some, he could score 40 goals for Getafe and they'd consider it the height of all offenses if we brought him back. Which would be their right... But for those, his performance shouldn't even matter.

 

[adexkola]

Yes, what’s so shocking about that? Her best interests have to be priority, as the victim.

See, just stop. You're reaching.

She can get all the support she needs without him kicking another ball for United.

If you want him back you can say so without this extra nonsense.

 

[Wibble]

and both can be true. There likely are a lot of fans that don't want him back and a lot of fans that wouldn't mind him back. Probably also a lot of fans who will accept whatever the club's decision is. I think trying to frame the narrative to suggest that the majority of United fans wouldn't accept him back is disingenuous, just as proposing the oppposite would be. Redcafe's own polls suggested it wasnt as clear cut as some would try and make it out to be.

It isn't clear cut. Somewhat amazingly.

 

[JakeC]

The hatred she will receive if he’s sold.

Shocking post.

 

[Wibble]

Yes, what’s so shocking about that? What’s best for her has to be priority, as the victim.

Yes. That is plainly the main consideration for such an argument.

 

[luke511]

See, just stop. You're reaching.

She can get all the support she needs without him kicking another ball for United.

If you want him back you can say so without this extra nonsense.

It’s not nonsense though? It’s something that is completely overlooked. I’ve seen the hatred already on social media and on her friends accounts, this is a snippet of what would happen if he was sold and was successful at a big club elsewhere. It would be never ending every time he played well.

 

[RuudTom83]

Wide midfielders in a 4-4-2 don’t score as many goals as they would in say a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3. That in combination with La Liga average goal total being the lowest out of the top 5 leagues could explain why he isn’t hitting big numbers (as well as his initial warming back into football).

Yeah I wasn't slagging him off...but all things considered (without me needing to repeat what baggage he brings) imo those stats would need to be a lot more, if he wanted to convince United it was worth bringing him back

 

[RuudTom83]

He plays for Getafe. As a wide forward/winger. He has stood out considerably in some of their games. When people say he’s doing well performance wise they’re likely assessing more than “goals to games” ratio.

Yeah some of the youtube clips I've seen he has looked decent.

 

[luke511]

Yeah I wasn't slagging him off...but all things considered (without me needed to repeat what baggage he brings) imo those stats would need to be a lot more, if he wanted to convince United it was worth bringing him back

Fair point.