Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[UDontMessWith24]

In our system, though it may be too generous to describe our play as having any kind of “system”, Bruno and Mason don’t work well together. They have different qualities but essentially thrive in the same role.

There is a system is couldn’t have laid it out more clearly. You also have idea if they can or cannot work well together because they haven’t had a realistic chance to build any chemistry. It may not work, but the idea was for them to play as rotating 8s more or less. If you can’t see how Mount might fit in a high press quick vertical passing system that’s on you.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

He made Bruno captain so it's obviously choice A. ETH has hitched his wagon to Bruno and it's been costing him and us.

This I can’t wrap my head around. I keep going back to the 0-0 at Anfield where we were organized and cohesive defensively with Maguire and Evans as center back iirc. One of the two was playing for sure.

 

[croadyman]

I agree with this.

I think the names such as De Zerbi, Amorim and Nagelsmann represent a risk that probably equates to the same as keeping ETH. What swings it for me is I think there is more chance under ETH that we get rid of obvious shite like Maguire, McTominay etc and make more progress at purging the squad.

I fear appointing a new manager may give them yet another fresh start.

The last paragraph is a very valid concern that I do share too despite me being firmly on the out train

 

[Martinez4midfield]

I usually cut Ten Hag more slack then most but that team did not look physically prepared for the game, they never really completed. It looked like the first game of preseason or they were thinking about holiday. He has to take a lot of responsibility for that, maybe he's lost the dressing room. Really disappointing after the FA cup result.

 

[croadyman]

The buy of Mount only makes sense as a replacement for Bruno. ETH could not have not have known that Mount would be out due to injury for the most of the season, so he had to rely on Bruno. But ETH either envisioned Bruno and Mount working well together, which would have been daft and a sackable offense itself, or he viewed this season as the phaseout season for Bruno, which hopefully it is. Bruno has run his course at OT and should be sold this summer.

Think it's safe to say Bruno won't be sold this summer when you look at how many pressing issues are above him on the list

 

[lex talionis]

Think it's safe to say Bruno won't be sold this summer when you look at how many pressing issues are above him on the list

I hear you, but wouldn't the sale of Bruno actually facilitate addressing the issues you rightly note are pressing?

We already have Mount, so selling Bruno doesn't create a new hole for us. And with the sale of Bruno, say for 60m, we can use the funds generated from sale to bring in a CB and a CDM, or at least one or the other. But keeping Bruno and allowing Mount to rot on the bench doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[lex talionis]

I usually cut Ten Hag more slack then most but that team did not look physically prepared for the game, they never really completed. It looked like the first game of preseason or they were thinking about holiday. He has to take a lot of responsibility for that, maybe he's lost the dressing room. Really disappointing after the FA cup result.

It was claimed earlier in the day that they traveled from Manchester to London that same day due to the game being so late at night. If true, whoever made the decision should be sacked.

 

[hobbers]

I agree with this.

I think the names such as De Zerbi, Amorim and Nagelsmann represent a risk that probably equates to the same as keeping ETH. What swings it for me is I think there is more chance under ETH that we get rid of obvious shite like Maguire, McTominay etc and make more progress at purging the squad.

I fear appointing a new manager may give them yet another fresh start.

I'd like this argument if we were talking about Bruno and Rashford, who ETH thinks are undroppable.

Keeping Maguire and McTominay in the squad is never going to cost us chances of winning major trophies. Keeping Bruno and Rashford in the team 1000% will do.

 

[croadyman]

I hear you, but wouldn't the sale of Bruno actually facilitate addressing the issues you rightly note are pressing?

We already have Mount, so selling Bruno doesn't create a new hole for us. And with the sale of Bruno, say for 60m, we can use the funds generated from sale to bring in a CB and a CDM, or at least one or the other. But keeping Bruno and allowing Mount to rot on the bench doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Yeah I completely agree with you but there is no chance the captain of this club gets sold

 

[gajender]

Yeah I completely agree with you but there is no chance the captain of this club gets sold

I can definitely see push from United to move him on in Summer whether we would actually be able to sell him I am not sure of .

 

[croadyman]

I can definitely see push from United to move him on in Summer whether we would actually be able to sell him I am not sure of .

What makes you think there will be push from the club to sell him and who could you see doing that

 

[Longshanks]

Look what you did here you accidentally cracked the code of why the "double 8" (It's not exactly a double 8 but you get the idea) is becoming more and more prevalent. It's why City can play with KDB and Bernardo in front of Rodri. (Yes, I know how good Rodri is, but that's part of it. Bruno and Eriksen were doing just fine as rotating 8s last season when Casemiro was in peak form)

How can Bruno and Mount fit together is a question I imagine that has stumped you in the past, but now you have an answer. Now if you want to talk about his insistence on playing Bruno every single second of every single game, that's a fair criticism.

So you suggesting the 2 8's pick up the CB's and what we leave the 2 deeper CM's unmarked or do the full backs tuck in to pick them up?

 

[gajender]

What makes you think there will be push from the club to sell him and who could you see doing that

We are bringing in new people in management from outside ideally they would be more attuned to whats needed to change at United with less sentiment involved ensuring nobody is safe .

 

[VP89]

Yes we wasted money on the Mount transfer. Overspent (you agreed), would have been better spent on a CM (again you agreed).

Dear me. Going round in circles here.

Is it the biggest waste of money within the £400m? No. Does it contribute to my original point that Ten Hag has spent £400m badly? Yes.

So Mount is or isn't a complete waste if money? Simple yes or no would do.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

So Mount is or isn't a complete waste if money? Simple yes or no would do.

As of now he is. But next season he prove not to be.

 

[VP89]

As of now he is. But next season he prove not to be.

Right, so not the write off insinuated then. Got it.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

As of now he is. But next season he prove not to be.

So the answer is no, he’s not a waste as he’s got the potential to be a good player for us.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Right, so not the write off insinuated then. Got it.

Agree. Silly to write off a signing after an injury ravaged year. Had he been fit and played like crap that would be easier to conclude.

 

[christy87]

So the answer is no, he’s not a waste as he’s got the potential to be a good player for us.

But he also has the potential to be another injury prone player and considering he spent the last half of last season injured it was always a risk, so it’s a maybe, or Schrödingers player

 

[Leftback99]

So Mount is or isn't a complete waste if money? Simple yes or no would do.

Read my posts.

 

[VP89]

Read my posts.

You didn't answer the question. You have consistently dodged questions, as shown with your interaction with @Berbaclass

Its a simple yes or no.

 

[Leftback99]

You didn't answer the question. You have consistently dodged questions, as shown with your interaction with @Berbaclass

Its a simple yes or no.

For someone with such an excellent understanding of the English language I'm surprised you can't grasp that "we've spent £400m badly" does not equal "Antony is worth zero".

It's funny that you're finally starting to accept Ten Hag's football isn't all that and all you've not got left is (imaginary) arguments about whether Mount is worthless or not.

 

[VP89]

For someone with such an excellent understanding of the English language I'm surprised you can't grasp that "we've spent £400m badly" does not equal "Antony is worth zero".

It's funny that you're finally starting to accept Ten Hag's football isn't all that and all you've not got left is (imaginary) arguments about whether Mount is worthless or not.

Can you answer a very simple question - is the entirety of the transfer Mason Mount a waste of money?

 

[Berbaclass]

Can you answer a very simple question - is the entirety of the transfer Mason Mount a waste of money?

It can’t possibly be as we could likely get at least 50-75% of the fee back at any point IMO.

He’s a valuable asset at the very least.

 

[Roux]

A reactive coach that’s only won 3 games in the last 20….

Well its Brentford... His job is to keep them in the PL and avoid relegation. What's he's done with this Brentford team for the past few years has been outstanding.

 

[VP89]

It can’t possibly be as we could likely get at least 50-75% of the fee back at any point IMO.

He’s a valuable asset at the very least.

So not a waste of money.

I dont think he knows what waste of money actually means.

Misallocation sure. But waste is a bit weird for a player signed this season.

 

[Doracle]

It can’t possibly be as we could likely get at least 50-75% of the fee back at any point IMO.

He’s a valuable asset at the very least.

We have no chance of selling him for that, unless he plays well, but then why would we sell him? No club will match £250k wages for a player like Mason Mount. Even Chelsea wouldn’t pay that and they didn’t have to also pay £30m for him!

If it doesn’t work out, this is another signing which will go the subsided loan route before quietly releasing him for free or a nominal transfer fee closer to the end of his contract.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

But he also has the potential to be another injury prone player and considering he spent the last half of last season injured it was always a risk, so it’s a maybe, or Schrödingers player

Am I right in thinking you are a Chelsea fan?

I think we all know the answer is no it’s not a complete waste of money but unfortunately some people want to add extra layers of issues surrounding Ten Hag to try and attribute more blame at his feet than is fair.

It’s very unfortunate circumstances that meant one of our bigger signings has been injured all season but that doesn’t mean he’s a waste especially given his profile fits what we sometimes miss in the attacking third and in midfield. It’s also quite funny this criticism comes after he’s just returned and scored a pretty good goal to be fair to him.

 

[christy87]

Am I right in thinking you are a Chelsea fan?

I think we all know the answer is no it’s not a complete waste of money but unfortunately some people want to add extra layers of issues surrounding Ten Hag to try and attribute more blame at his feet than is fair.

It’s very unfortunate circumstances that meant one of our bigger signings has been injured all season but that doesn’t mean he’s a waste especially given his profile fits what we sometimes miss in the attacking third and in midfield. It’s also quite funny this criticism comes after he’s just returned and scored a pretty good goal to be fair to him.

I'm as much of a Chelsea fan as you are a Cardiff fan and this isn't the first time saying this to you.

The jury is still out on him to be honest, the Chelsea fans I know were ecstatic with want they got for him, I personally thought he was a bang average player before we bought him I still do now.

I'd be happy if he proves me wrong but I just don't see it happening, it looks like another Donny to me.

 

[Doracle]

So not a waste of money.

I dont think he knows what waste of money actually means.

Misallocation sure. But waste is a bit weird for a player signed this season.

If I spend £10 on an apple worth 50p, then I might enjoy eating that apple. I might alternatively be able to re-sell the apple for its true value and get 50p. Either way it is still a waste of money because it was not worth £10.

Similarly, Mason Mount with a year left on his contract was not worth £55m and £250k a week wages. In reality, we’ve now also paid £55m for the privilege of his performances this season as he’d have been free in two months. Unless he produces something really special in the next few weeks, it’s as clear a complete waste of money as any player could be.

That doesn’t mean that we might not be able to make use of him and it doesn’t mean he has no value (although see my comment above as his wage causes substantial re-sale issues). It just means that he was a waste of money at the price paid and we should not have made that purchase.

 

[JPRouve]

The main problem with our signings isn't the price but the fact that the manager doesn't actually have a good plan to integrate them. Even the good ones like Lisandro or Hojlund aren't actually put in a position to maximize their abilities. We signed a mobile striker and largely used him as a sort of target man, we have a highly technical CB and we use him as a sort of traditional stopper, then you have Casemiro who has been a great defensive midfielder but is used as a sort of box to box.

The issue isn't on the accounting side of things, it's on the pitch. Most of what we do is senseless and the only reason we are decent is because some of our players are actually talented.

 

[VP89]

If I spend £10 on an apple worth 50p, then I might enjoy eating that apple. I might alternatively be able to re-sell the apple for its true value and get 50p. Either way it is still a waste of money because it was not worth £10.

Similarly, Mason Mount with a year left on his contract was not worth £55m and £250k a week wages. In reality, we’ve now also paid £55m for the privilege of his performances this season as he’d have been free in two months. Unless he produces something really special in the next few weeks, it’s as clear a complete waste of money as any player could be.

That doesn’t mean that we might not be able to make use of him and it doesn’t mean he has no value (although see my comment above as his wage causes substantial re-sale issues). It just means that he was a waste of money at the price paid and we should not have made that purchase.

His value add is not limited to this season. It's more when looking at transfers and seeing their potential value, are we in a position to rule them out as a waste of money? In his case, no.

To give another example - I went to dubai and it cost me £3.3k. It was great fun but I could have gone to Canary Islands for 2k and had a great time too. Did I misallocate my resources? Yes. But was my Dubai trip as a whole a waste of money? No.

You see what I'm saying here surely? Also dubai is alright, but only if you have kids. Just a little nugget.

 

[VP89]

The main problem with our signings isn't the price but the fact that the manager doesn't actually have a good plan to integrate them. Even the good ones like Lisandro or Hojlund aren't actually put in a position to maximize their abilities. We signed a mobile striker and largely used him as a sort of target man, we have a highly technical CB and we use him as a sort of traditional stopper, then you have Casemiro who has been a great defensive midfielder but is used as a sort of box to box.

The issue isn't on the accounting side of things, it's on the pitch. Most of what we do is senseless and the only reason we are decent is because some of our players are actually talented.

After many false dawns and ups and downs it's difficult not to buy into this view.

 

[Sarni]

Well its Brentford... His job is to keep them in the PL and avoid relegation. What's he's done with this Brentford team for the past few years has been outstanding.

His next step should be a better team than Brentford that's competing for European spots, or at least get Brentford to consistently finish top half and have some good cup runs. You can't go from battling relegation to managing Manchester United.

 

[Doracle]

His value add is not limited to this season. It's more when looking at transfers and seeing their potential value, are we in a position to rule them out as a waste of money? In his case, no.

To give another example - I went to dubai and it cost me £3.3k. It was great fun but I could have gone to Canary Islands for 2k and had a great time too. Did I misallocate my resources? Yes. But was my Dubai trip as a whole a waste of money? No.

You see what I'm saying here surely? Also dubai is alright, but only if you have kids. Just a little nugget.

It’s semantics. No one is saying we can’t make any use of Mount. The phrase “what a waste of money” is commonly used when you overpay for something. It doesn’t mean it literally has no value.

In this case, we’ve paid c. £50m for the privilege of Mason Mount’s 23/24 season and to avoid the risk that some other team might have paid him £250k per week if we had waited until now. Now, that has some value but, in my view, it’s miles short of £50m. Hence, his purchase was a waste of money.

 

[troylocker]

Not the right manager to take us anywhere. The trajectory of our progress is close to vertical negative and the man has as much charisma and aura as a brick

 

[Leftback99]

So not a waste of money.

I dont think he knows what waste of money actually means.

Misallocation sure. But waste is a bit weird for a player signed this season.

I've already done this once to you. It's like you like embarrassing yourself.

Top result on Google for 'waste of money' "money spent for inadequate return"

 

[Sarni]

It’s semantics. No one is saying we can’t make any use of Mount. The phrase “what a waste of money” is commonly used when you overpay for something. It doesn’t mean it literally has no value.

In this case, we’ve paid c. £50m for the privilege of Mason Mount’s 23/24 season and to avoid the risk that some other team might have paid him £250k per week if we had waited until now. Now, that has some value but, in my view, it’s miles short of £50m. Hence, his purchase was a waste of money.

We would be able to sell Mount for £40m+ though and there are no guarantees we would have been able to sign him on a free.

He was still incorrect signing as Mount-Bruno midfield would never work but the price itself was probably more or less okay.

 

[JPRouve]

After many false dawns and ups and downs it's difficult not to buy into this view.

I don't know how to read this. You are making it sounds like I'm talking about astrology and not things that actually happened and is still happening.

 

[Berbaclass]

The main problem with our signings isn't the price but the fact that the manager doesn't actually have a good plan to integrate them. Even the good ones like Lisandro or Hojlund aren't actually put in a position to maximize their abilities. We signed a mobile striker and largely used him as a sort of target man, we have a highly technical CB and we use him as a sort of traditional stopper, then you have Casemiro who has been a great defensive midfielder but is used as a sort of box to box.

The issue isn't on the accounting side of things, it's on the pitch. Most of what we do is senseless and the only reason we are decent is because some of our players are actually talented.

Very true.