Leftback99
Might have a bedwetting fetish.
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2015
- Messages
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If we'd have had Chelsea/Forest level of luck we'd be in a relegation fight this week.Tweet
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xg points of 41 ……..
If we'd have had Chelsea/Forest level of luck we'd be in a relegation fight this week.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
xg points of 41 ……..
It is a incredible demonstration of the Ajax sheen. I thought Donny would have taught a few how little value that still had, for 2 years much of the fanbase convinced themselves he was this misused game-changer when it was pretty obvious after about 3 games that he was very average.The collective fanbase will look back on this season 1 day and realize just how shit it truly was
And also laugh remembering ETH was defended vehemently by portions of the fanbase for our worst season in the Premier League era
Why is it luck?If we'd have had Chelsea/Forest level of luck we'd be in a relegation fight this week.
I'm just glad the media are finally calling out his bollocks. Felt like I've been going insane this season trying to decipher if my eyes are deceiving me or he's just bullshitting us all. Some of the stuff he comes out with is absolute bollocks, well most of it is in all honesty. And yet we have fans still embracing this rubbishTweet
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Did we have that last season or was it all on the manager forcing them to win games when they all didn't want to?We’ve got 11 individuals in each match not a team. I hate to say it but the next manager will fail with this lot. We’ve got a clash of varying player identities. It will never work unless we sell most of our players and start again.
At least Southgate could make us more defensive and compact and not concede10, 20 shots on goal per match? Dull yes but not as ridiculously open ETH styleThe future is a roll of the dice whoever is head coach. Ten Hag isn't surviving the summer, that much is obvious. What needs to be recognised is that the next guy will face the same problems. The potential candidates will know this perfectly well, so we will get someone crap like Southgate or an in and out mercenary like Tuchel. Then what?
It's United fans, honestly. I think we've got some fans who really don't know what they're talking about when it comes to good players/management, which is surprising when we had 20 odd years of watching what it should look like. I can forgive it when judging players playing elsewhere, as there's so many factors in them transitioning well to the PL. But to watch our own players struggle weekly and still think they're good enough? Sometimes you just need to uphold standards and call a spade a spade.It is a incredible demonstration of the Ajax sheen. I thought Donny would have taught a few how little value that still had, for 2 years much of the fanbase convinced themselves he was this misused game-changer when it was pretty obvious after about 3 games that he was very average.
Give him any excuse you want around injuries, player availability, refs, whatever. Beyond all that his set up of the midfield and use of available resources has been inept.
I don't think anybody disagrees regarding the players, it's not either or. In my opinion step 1 is to get the quick and easy win and hire the right coach. Then start with the longer, drawn out process of overhauling the squad. I'd be sure everyone calling for his head would agree with this.ten Hag can piss off for all I care but thinking he's the only problem would be naive. No manager can work with that lot players. And yes, I know most are his signings these days. So they can all pretty much bugger off.
I hope Dan Ashworth gets sorted as soon as possible.
It's the 15 goals that kill me. It's tied for second worse record, we were equals to Celtic and Cvrena Zvezda.I'd have actually been enough for the sack at most non-elite clubs too. Said it the other day, if he were managing champions of Poland and had that exact campaign, getting knocked out from Europe altogether by underwhelming Galatasaray and Copenhagen while conceding 16 goals, he'd definitely be questioned at very least.
At clubs like Porto, Shakhtar, Roma he'd get most likely fired. At any genuinely elite club he'd not be in the dugout for the Bayern game.
I think conceding 14 goals less than expected, including your opposition hitting the woodwork or wasting top quality chances so many times, is largely down to luck.Why is it luck?
Nothing more frustrating than the tolerance our fanbase has for incompetence, all disguised as "backing the manager/player". There isn't a more tolerant set of fans anywhere at a big club apart from possibly Liverpool (which is also why they largely failed for decades before Klopp/Edwards saved them).I'd have actually been enough for the sack at most non-elite clubs too. Said it the other day, if he were managing champions of Poland and had that exact campaign, getting knocked out from Europe altogether by underwhelming Galatasaray and Copenhagen while conceding 16 goals, he'd definitely be questioned at very least.
At clubs like Porto, Shakhtar, Roma he'd get most likely fired. At any genuinely elite club he'd not be in the dugout for the Bayern game.
That stupid run from Jan-Feb was so annoying because it was incredibly obvious we were getting very lucky winning these coinflip games yet so many thought we were turning a corner because we had a striker on a ridiculous hot streak. Well this is the other side of that same variance, where the purple patch from Hojlund is absent and teams actually finish their dinner against us.I think conceding 14 goals less than expected, including your opposition hitting the woodwork or wasting top quality chances so many times, is largely down to luck.
Unless someone genuinely believes all those missed chances are a result of tactics / performances… I don’t think so though and recent weeks seem to confirm that. When our opposition are clinical we are getting spanked heavily by Palace and Bournemouth, every now and again we will fluke a draw like we did against Brentford despite conceding historical number of goal scoring opportunities but it’s not sustainable.
This sentiment was also widely shared before. We fluked many, many 1-goal wins in 50/50 games early in the season which gave us false impression of being a top 5 side, but it eventually ran out and we have been a bottom half team over the last 10 results wise. Performance wise we’ve easily been bottom 10 all year, without question.
If we aren't good enough to win anything does it matter if we finish 2nd or 8th? If a painful five years of transition is the price then I will gladly pay it. Southgate is just a step backwards.At least Southgate could make us more defensive and compact and not concede10, 20 shots on goal per match? Dull yes but not as ridiculously open ETH style
It's by far the easiest job in football, relatively speaking. You get significant resources, access to top level talent (despite being far from the top we still attract best in class talent) and expectations which are on level with West Ham, maybe Spurs, two clubs with significantly smaller resources (and I don't think we can even mention Spurs here as they are way more ambitious than us).Nothing more frustrating than the tolerance our fanbase has for incompetence, all disguised as "backing the manager/player". There isn't a more tolerant set of fans anywhere at a big club apart from possibly Liverpool (which is also why they largely failed for decades before Klopp/Edwards saved them).
We are also relatively lucky that Palace took a bit of time to change the manager and Bournemouth only got going after 8-9 games of season (in which they won zero games), as they've both been considerably better than us since, like on a different level. Brighton turmoil has helped too, and Everton being docked 8 points. All those teams have basically been right at our level (Brighton, Everton, West Ham) for most of the season, or well above our level but for too short of a period (Palace, Bournemouth).That stupid run from Jan-Feb was so annoying because it was incredibly obvious we were getting very lucky winning these coinflip games yet so many thought we were turning a corner because we had a striker on a ridiculous hot streak. Well this is the other side of that same variance, where the purple patch from Hojlund is absent and teams actually finish their dinner against us.
Jeez seeing your stance on him staying get stronger is very depressing indeed and worries meIt's pretty depressing ending the season this way (likely winless) and also having no real hope of change.
It seems very much like EtH will stay, we don't have structure in place still, so he'll probably get a big say in transfers again, and we'll be just as bad if not worse next season trying to fit more square pegs in round holes and watching Rashford, McTom, Antony and friends stink up the place while our rivals make progress.
I expect Chelsea to be miles ahead of us this time next year, for example.
People still mention that league cup last year as if we won the fecking UCL with how much credit it gave Ten Hag in many eyes. We had a piss easy run to the final and then just scrapped an ugly final win against Newcastle before the entire season turned to absolute garbage. If we lose that final maybe it would have opened peoples eyes quicker to the lack of ability ETH has.It's by far the easiest job in football, relatively speaking. You get significant resources, access to top level talent (despite being far from the top we still attract best in class talent) and expectations which are on level with West Ham, maybe Spurs, two clubs with significantly smaller resources (and I don't think we can even mention Spurs here as they are way more ambitious than us).
Take last season for example, it was a decent season overall, we won 'the trophy', we finished 3rd, and it was widely recognized as a good year. You could lower our points tally by 5-10 points though and see us finish 5th, and I guarantee that vast majority of our fanbase and our owners would have been happy. If you were able to sustain that for 4-5 years running, finishing between 3rd and 5th, on 65-75 points, your job would basically be guaranteed forever, with virtually no pressure or questions asked about the next step. This would not be possible at any other club with similar resources, nowhere in Europe.
That was the story of last season (aka the best season we've had in living memory). The underlying stats pointed to us being lucky.We are also relatively lucky that Palace took a bit of time to change the manager and Bournemouth only got going after 8-9 games of season (in which they won zero games), as they've both been considerably better than us since, like on a different level. Brighton turmoil has helped too, and Everton being docked 8 points. All those teams have basically been right at our level (Brighton, Everton, West Ham) for most of the season, or well above our level but for too short of a period (Palace, Bournemouth).
I am praying he doesn't leave the England job after Euros because then will fear he's coming hereHe will be sacked in the days following the final, but not before. I'm stressing over the very likely prospect that Gareth Southgate will be his replacement.
You can't just state that these things are luck, if a striker puts the ball wide from 8 yards, that's not luck. If we score a goal from an unlikely position, that's not luck. Luck is not a term that makes sense if you're talking in statistics.I think conceding 14 goals less than expected, including your opposition hitting the woodwork or wasting top quality chances so many times, is largely down to luck.
Unless someone genuinely believes all those missed chances are a result of tactics / performances… I don’t think so though and recent weeks seem to confirm that. When our opposition are clinical we are getting spanked heavily by Palace and Bournemouth, every now and again we will fluke a draw like we did against Brentford despite conceding historical number of goal scoring opportunities but it’s not sustainable.
This sentiment was also widely shared before. We fluked many, many 1-goal wins in 50/50 games early in the season which gave us false impression of being a top 5 side, but it eventually ran out and we have been a bottom half team over the last 10 results wise. Performance wise we’ve easily been bottom 10 all year, without question.
Yeah it was Rashford turning into Mbappe for a chunk of the season coupled with a pretty solid spine when Martinez/Varane/Casemiro all played together. Was clearly not sustainable going into the following season but for a first year on the job certainly solid enough given the results.That was the story of last season (aka the best season we've had in living memory). The underlying stats pointed to us being lucky.
xPts had us in 6th - carried by Rashfords incredible run of form.
Ah yes I remember that nowCertainly some failure lies on the medical staff. Casemiro got a second opinion in Brazil on his hamstring and they found he was injured
What on earth are you talking about? Are we really arguing semantics here? Would you prefer "positive variance" instead as the term used?You can't just state that these things are luck, if a striker puts the ball wide from 8 yards, that's not luck. If we score a goal from an unlikely position, that's not luck. Luck is not a term that makes sense if you're talking in statistics.
I remember in 17/18 someone on here arguing that it was by design as we had the best shot stopper in the worldWhat on earth are you talking about? Are we really arguing semantics here? Would you prefer "positive variance" instead as the term used?
If you concede constant high xG chances but are rarely punished with goals then yes it's "luck" over a large enough sample size.
Yeah it's a trotted out line by his defenders,other one is how much of a bad character that Tuchel is as wellWhy is everyone suddenly repeating the "ETH isn't the only problem at the club / we won't suddenly start challenging for the league with a new manager" cliché?
We know he isn't the only problem! That's been established over and over again - the fact that there are a lot of other problems to solve doesn't mean he can just wash his hands of any and all culpability for this disaster of a season.
Most of the stances people use to defend him are bad faith stances and/or arguing against stuff no one ever saidWhy is everyone suddenly repeating the "ETH isn't the only problem at the club / we won't suddenly start challenging for the league with a new manager" cliché?
We know he isn't the only problem! That's been established over and over again - the fact that there are a lot of other problems to solve doesn't mean he can just wash his hands of any and all culpability for this disaster of a season.
Whatever terminology you want to use, our results have been better than our performances, statistically speaking. Whether you call it luck or statistical inconsistency, or whatever you want to call it, does not matter.You can't just state that these things are luck, if a striker puts the ball wide from 8 yards, that's not luck. If we score a goal from an unlikely position, that's not luck. Luck is not a term that makes sense if you're talking in statistics.
Refuse to vote stay despite I fear that's what happensVoted for him to stay as I've resigned myself that he's staying..ffs..
I always hark back to this game in 2022-23 : - https://www.espn.co.uk/football/match/_/gameId/638019/manchester-united-arsenal
We gave Arsenal a good game and from there on it all turned to shit where's Arsenal have kicked on.
Sure I remember Thierry Henry claiming that EtH had progressed Utd quicker than Arteta had in the time he had.
We sure showed him heh!
No worries, I can't find the story I read but apparently at least in theory UEFA can fine sides for fielding weakened sides. How often it's actually happened though I've no idea. BUt I imagine they'd take a dim view on United or another big side playing virtual Youth teams in their competitions. I can remember Liverpool under Rodgers got a telling off for making a load of changes in one game.Ah cheers, I didn’t realise anyone had been fined for it.
Oh just go back through this thread and you'll see people say conceding 20 shots a game is fine because they are "low quality shots just adding xG"I remember in 17/18 someone on here arguing that it was by design as we had the best shot stopper in the world
The future is a roll of the dice whoever is head coach. Ten Hag isn't surviving the summer, that much is obvious. What needs to be recognised is that the next guy will face the same problems. The potential candidates will know this perfectly well, so we will get someone crap like Southgate or an in and out mercenary like Tuchel. Then what?
The thing that is missing here is context, though. You can't compare a team to a player, because a team doesn't remain the same(neither does a player, really). Our team this season, where these statistics are coming from, has been ridiculously different from week to week. So you can't really say that we will revert to the mean, because these stats have come from an anomalous period. If the team was settled this would be a far stronger argument.Whatever terminology you want to use, our results have been better than our performances, statistically speaking. Whether you call it luck or statistical inconsistency, or whatever you want to call it, does not matter.
It boils down to the same conclusion, once our results start matching our performance level and statistics - which is inevitable because it almost always happens over long term - we will be at exactly the level we've been playing at. It has been true this season, where earlier in the year we got many results that were more than we deserved and we were close to 4th, however second half of season we got exactly the results we've deserved which saw us move down to 8th (which is still better than our performances merit). We will run out of games this season to fall below any more teams but if we continue on the same trajectory next season, we will probably finish even lower because there are multiple teams below us that have been statistically much better than us over the course of the last 20-25 games. This season is just too short to nullify our significant overperformance in the first half of it, hence we will still finish at respectable 8th.
Performance/stats and results can be out of sync in the short term but they are going to eventually correspond. Perfect example is basketball, a sport I very much enjoy watching. There's ton of metrics there that help assess a player, and they tend to move up and down during season, but over the course of full year for any given player they will usually come to a level that is expected from a player of his quality and talents. If you're an average shooter, you will occasionally have a streak where you won't miss, you will shoot 50%+ from three over the course of 10-15 games, but eventually you will also have a streak where you can't hit and will go < 30% for 10 games in a row, and will eventually get to the 36-38% range that is your real level.
We've been largely dull and limp in an attacking sense this season anyway.At least Southgate could make us more defensive and compact and not concede10, 20 shots on goal per match? Dull yes but not as ridiculously open ETH style
It's actually pretty interesting how many people would trust the new DoF and for some reason, Ten Hag too, to sell the entire team and buy a new one. Setting aside the fact that this doesn't happen in reality because it's stupid and unfeasable, but still after this abomination of a season there are still people willing to give Ten Hag a chance to oversee what would be the biggest rebuild in world of football.Do you just explicitly trust the manager/DoF with couple of billion £ and the hope that it will work all out in the end, no matter how shit things look on the way?