Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

Apparently he now has a worse point tally than Hodgson at Liverpool.

I'm starting to worry that he may have bitten off more than he can chew here. But then, what getable manager would succeed in the current setup. Just depressing as shite. Reckon people will turn if we get knocked out of Europa.
 
I'm seeing some people post how the current team is unsuited to a back 4 system because of ETH's reign, so there's no point moaning about the current system.

Surely we realize there's different interpretations of a back 4 system?
 
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Apparently he now has a worse point tally than Hodgson at Liverpool.

I'm starting to worry that he may have bitten off more than he can chew here. But then, what getable manager would succeed in the current setup. Just depressing as shite. Reckon people will turn if we get knocked out of Europa.

Depends how you define succeed.

But the signs for Amorim aren't good at all. I don't think a manager at a top club ever got off to a bad start like this and then turned it around. And Amorim's never succeeded at a top club either for one to maintain faith with the awful start.

I was defending him pretty staunchly at the start, but I gave up on him a while ago honestly. He's had enough time to show some improvements, and we've not improved at all.

People saying the patterns of play look better, we're more comfortable building out from the back, etc. People are clinging on to blind hope. There's a graphic that showed how often we lose the ball in build-up areas(worst in the league I believe). And Amorim's win % at the moment is beyond putrid. If we were playing some scintillating football now and then, you could even ignore the awful win % too.

We play 5 defenders and play some very dull football. If he did succeed in the Europa League, I think that would do him and the club a world of good though. Hopefully we win that. If we crash out in that vs Lyon, it won't be pretty.
 
In theory it is to start implementing the system as soon as possible, trading immediate results for speeding up the process, and not wasting time on a temporary strategy. However, people have also defended the results by claiming that he doesn't have enough time to train the players, due to how often United play. If that's true then it's unclear how useful it is to start in less-than-ideal conditions.
Yes but clearly there is a need for a huge overhaul of players for this to work so whether it's implemented now with this current squad or later with new players, I don't think any process has been sped up.

It's a fairly simple analogy to get. A number of fans are acting like it's better to return to slavery on a brutal plantation "cause they fed better". Rather than retain self autonomy on the journey to true freedom at the first sight of hunger pangs from inconsistent food supply. ....
From the get go it was fairly for me and many others to see that this system wasn't gonna work on a consistent basis. I don't think it's a controversial take, it requires way too much from a sorry set of players.
 
Yes but clearly there is a need for a huge overhaul of players for this to work so whether it's implemented now with this current squad or later with new players, I don't think any process has been sped up.
It allows the players who are staying, like Bruno, Yoro, Amad etc. to get up to speed with it and hopefully allow more seamless transition with the players that are added.
 
I get that there are a lot of mitigating circumstances for Amorim. But other than the bad situation he’s in, what is he actively doing, other than his interviews and press conferences, that instils you with confidence?
 
It allows the players who are staying, like Bruno, Yoro, Amad etc. to get up to speed with it and hopefully allow more seamless transition with the players that are added.
I hope you're right tbh. I just worry about Ineos spearheading just a difficult transition. It's pure bias from me but I don't think at any point, I will be alright watching a back 3. It feels too unnatural
 
The Henry analysis on MNF was a bit damming on the drawbacks of the current formation. We do look like we have struggled to progress the ball out from the back because instead of a CM dropping in and collecting the ball deep, it's now a defender who is worse on the ball. Our wingbacks also sit in quite deep, so the players ahead of the ball are outnumbered. As Henry pointed out it's partly as the wide CBs are not really splitting at coming out wide.

Also it feels like back 5 is generally quite flat and move the ball slowly across themsel. Rarely do we see the CBs breaking the line (eg Sheff Utd underlapping CBs a few seasons back) or wingbacks starting high.

I wonder how much Amorim's vision has been shaped by coaching in a much slower league.

That Henry and Carragher analysis summed up exactly what I was thinking. I also don't understand why Zirkzee was in the right back area in the lead up to their first goal. Too many things do not make sense. I can actually see the merits of playing a system such as this and having a player play out from the back and stepping into midfield allows the team to move up as a whole. But, I'm just not seeing that.

The wingbacks sit too way too deep and everyone just gets pulled back. It puts us at too many disadvantages because we then have more area to cover before we get to the opposition's box, which is a disadvantage for us due to our lack of speed, mobility, and stamina. Sitting deep plays to our weaknesses. We also spend way too much time with the centre backs and the keeper having the ball. These are generally our worst players on the ball. Give it to the talented ones quicker! As a fan, that second half has damaged my opinion of Amorim and of what he thinks he is trying to do.

Also, I'm not a fan of sacking off games at all. Morally, it's a really stupid thing to do when you have a big game coming up straight after that. This whole notion of this season being an experiment doesn't sit right with me. It also raises the expectations for next season, which I'm just struggling to see right now.
 
But can you name any of these players who are specifically wingbacks and can't play as a fullback or winger?
The point is that very few teams play with fullbacks hence the selection is limited. I wanted Ait-Nouri since he can also play LB. Frimpong can probably not play RB. Wingback is a specialist position for 343.
 
We struggle the most in attack and although he’s given other young players a go, Amorim mainly picks Hojlund upfront and it’s like playing with 10 men. Why doesn’t he give Obi a chance, start him in a match as in the league it doesn’t make much difference now. Hojlund doesn’t score, so we’re already at rock bottom.

I don’t watch much youth football but have heard of biancheri and surely others he can give game time through.

Busby used to say you don’t know what you got until you try them
 
That Henry and Carragher analysis summed up exactly what I was thinking. I also don't understand why Zirkzee was in the right back area in the lead up to their first goal. Too many things do not make sense. I can actually see the merits of playing a system such as this and having a player play out from the back and stepping into midfield allows the team to move up as a whole. But, I'm just not seeing that.

The wingbacks sit too way too deep and everyone just gets pulled back. It puts us at too many disadvantages because we then have more area to cover before we get to the opposition's box, which is a disadvantage for us due to our lack of speed, mobility, and stamina. Sitting deep plays to our weaknesses. We also spend way too much time with the centre backs and the keeper having the ball. These are generally our worst players on the ball. Give it to the talented ones quicker! As a fan, that second half has damaged my opinion of Amorim and of what he thinks he is trying to do.

Also, I'm not a fan of sacking off games at all. Morally, it's a really stupid thing to do when you have a big game coming up straight after that. This whole notion of this season being an experiment doesn't sit right with me. It also raises the expectations for next season, which I'm just struggling to see right now.
Did Henry say that this is only short term pain that we must endure and that Amorim will surely turn this around?
 
A manager can't come in and turn a bag of shite into a decent team overnight. That's why Amorim is getting a bye and more time.

But I give you David Moyes at Everton.

and I just read this

Since Pereira’s appointment on 19 December, Wolves sit eighth in a Premier League table behind the current top six and Crystal Palace. And Sunday’s 4-2 victory over Tottenham moved them 14 points clear of the relegation zone with just six games left to play. Bear in mind that he took over a team that was 19th in the Premier League with nine points from 16 games and five points behind Leicester City.

It seems that a manager who does a bit of reorganzation, plays to this players strengths , gives them a bit of confidence can turn a team around. Unless you are called Amorim and then you don't try this approach, but continue with your approach that everyone and his dog says won't work with the players he has.

If SJR has told him this approach is fine, which the above video says he has, then good for Rubin, carry on if that's your mandate.

So, you’re saying that after hiring the wrong manager from the Netherlands, we then hired the wrong manager from Portugal...
 
No, we are saying that United needs a long term reset and fix, not someone to "fix it a little" and "play to players strengths".

You are looking at short term meaningless results and getting angry that you can't get dopamine hits from sharing "yey we won" on social media.

Nothing is new. Amorim wants a style and we see glimpses of it.
Half of our squad is not good enough. Half of the other half are inconsistent.

We need a proper window and good preseason.

It's astonishing how some posters are desperate for a "yes man" in charge who will "fix it a little".

To build a new house, you burn the old one down.
And when the pillars of the old house are the likes of Onana, it's super simple to burn.
 
He was bound to struggle this season the squad he inherited is championship level, it needs a rebuild and proper investment to be even remotely competitive… Ten Hag was a disaster in the transfer market and we are paying for it now
 
I get that there are a lot of mitigating circumstances for Amorim. But other than the bad situation he’s in, what is he actively doing, other than his interviews and press conferences, that instils you with confidence?

We're still unbeaten in Europe. Prior to Amorim coming in we hadn't won a match in Europe in nearly 2 years or something ridiculous.

Basically that's all we have to hang our hat on at the moment.
 
We're still unbeaten in Europe. Prior to Amorim coming in we hadn't won a match in Europe in nearly 2 years or something ridiculous.

Basically that's all we have to hang our hat on at the moment.
That's patently untrue, we did beat Copenhagen!
 
No, we are saying that United needs a long term reset and fix, not someone to "fix it a little" and "play to players strengths".

You are looking at short term meaningless results and getting angry that you can't get dopamine hits from sharing "yey we won" on social media.

Nothing is new. Amorim wants a style and we see glimpses of it.
Half of our squad is not good enough. Half of the other half are inconsistent.

We need a proper window and good preseason.

It's astonishing how some posters are desperate for a "yes man" in charge who will "fix it a little".

To build a new house, you burn the old one down.
And when the pillars of the old house are the likes of Onana, it's super simple to burn.
Yea i concur.
 
No, we are saying that United needs a long term reset and fix, not someone to "fix it a little" and "play to players strengths".

You are looking at short term meaningless results and getting angry that you can't get dopamine hits from sharing "yey we won" on social media.

Nothing is new. Amorim wants a style and we see glimpses of it.
Half of our squad is not good enough. Half of the other half are inconsistent.

We need a proper window and good preseason.

It's astonishing how some posters are desperate for a "yes man" in charge who will "fix it a little".

To build a new house, you burn the old one down.
And when the pillars of the old house are the likes of Onana, it's super simple to burn.
See I have no problem with that but everything I've read regarding transfers is the budgets going to be tight this summer so the majority of this squad are going to be here next year.

In a ideal world Rashford goes for £40m, Sancho £25m, Antony 25m? we get Cas of the wage book along with Evans, Lindelof and Eriksen. That's 6 players that should be in or around the 1st team that need replacing and that's before even talking about adding players who make the team better.

So even with a perfect window quite a few of these players will play a lot of football next year and few have shown they're up to scratch, should we be just prepping for another season right off? Guess we're going have to hope the teams that come up are just as shite as the ones that went down this year because if this form continues next year a relegation battle could be on the table.
 
I hope you're right tbh. I just worry about Ineos spearheading just a difficult transition. It's pure bias from me but I don't think at any point, I will be alright watching a back 3. It feels too unnatural

My thinking exactly, the way he wants the central defender to act when we are building up I think will be the downfall of this formation as pointed out on MNF, I know it was Lindelof would we expect it to be that much better if it was Maguire or any of our current defenders receiving the ball with his back to goal being pressed up by the midfield like Newcastle did I think the outcome would be pretty much the same, no defenders will have enough time and space to operate this way in the PL
 
I get that there are a lot of mitigating circumstances for Amorim. But other than the bad situation he’s in, what is he actively doing, other than his interviews and press conferences, that instils you with confidence?

Happy to answer from my perspective as I do see things I like on the pitch, though I would like to underline that: 1. I still put a lot of weight on what he did at Sporting, with good football, youth development, and drastically rebuilding a failing club, 2. His press conferences and general media persona are a significant factor, doing a good job of keeping his head and not deflecting blame whilst he faces a seemingly endless barrage of shit that is out of his control and 3. Whilst he has not done enough so far in the role to convince he is the man, I'd rather solve one big problem at a time, and recruitment and squad quality in THE main issue with the club.

-----

So firstly I can see what he's trying to do, and in theory I like it. A more structured and automated attempt to win the possession battle in defence and midfield, that then leads to releasing attacking players into space and high xg chances where they can express themselves and be creative. There's an extra defender, but you're still attacking with 5, even a sixth if one of the CMs pushes up, since the wbs can be both winger and defender.

The process of winning that battle at the back has started to show fruit. On plenty of occasions in most games now you'll see some fairly slick passing to beat the press, which then releases our attackers to run at the oppositions back line. Whilst this rarely results in goals (which I put down to the quality of our attackers), I can easily see how better players capitalise on those kinds of opportunities.

At other times you'll see the ball go directly into the 10 or 9 from defence, bypassing the midfield who've drawn the opposition out of the way, again creating good opportunities. Zirkzee has shown real value over the past couple months in receiving the ball like this, turning and setting up good opportunities. But again, a lack of quality elsewhere stops this being possible, and I can easily see how players with better hold up player make this a more consistent process.

I also like just having proper width again. I get a sad little buzz every time that switch is on to the wb who is free high up on the wing. Unfortunately its normally Dalot who is out there, and the opposition don't fear him and would rather cover Dorgu on the other side. Again, better wb options does more for us there.

So yeah tactically I'm up for it and can see it working. Sit back and counter was fun at times under Ole, but wasn't enough in the big games that required more tactical nous. I can't do that tortuous Dutch possession football anymore, its so fecking boring. And Ten Hag's suicide ball was just stupid. Its not going to be relentless pressure ala early Liverpool, but whilst that might be fun I don't think its sustainable with the amount of games you have to play these days. Case in point, I don't think its a coincidence that Liverpool finally win a proper league title now that they've calmed things down a bit - the league is too much of a marathon to be constantly pressing and running.

So I'm totally up for trying this Amorim ball. It needs better quality, but I honestly cannot think of a system that wouldn't require us to drastically rebuild anyway. I keep seeing people say find something that fits the players, but Im yet to see anyone put a convincing argument across about what that would be and how that would get us top 4 with the players we have.

------

So that's the structure, and I think you can see improvement in certain players as well. De Ligt is really starting to grow into the player I expected him to be, and I think he's going to flourish as the CCB over the next few years. Maguire as a stand in also looking better than he has in a long time. Casemiro looks reborn, which is a real credit to Amorim, not just in finding a tactical fit for him when he looked so washed, but also how he seems to have bought out a leader in him when I thought he'd checked out towards the end of Ten Hag's time. Zirkzee, who I had frankly written off, is now mourned by many after that latest injury, which tells you how well he's playing even though he isn't putting up the numbers. There's a lesson in the need to actually watch the games and not just look at the stats.

I think he's doing a great job with the kids as well. Heaven, Yoro, Dorgu all have a lot of pressure on them, often thrust in without the freedom to be eased in as kids should. But they're performing by and large. Dorgu is potentially the weakest of the three, but even then I think the criticism of him has been harsh, and he's had more good games than bad. Overall he's shielding these kids and developing them at the same time which is what we need him to do.

----

To pre-empt some the counter points - here's where I think he could do better. 1. Surely there's a pacey winger in the academy we can bring in to the run in behind at the end of games. Maybe I'm wrong, but there's too much pressure on Garnacho to be the only runner in the team 2. Could he have done more to help Hojlund improve? Told him to stop wrestling and just get on the end of crosses - I don't know.

----

So to summarise, I see what he's trying to do, I see evidence of it starting to materialise, I see really positive attributes in his management, and I think we can be patient with him whilst we sort out squad quality, that would need to be done regardless if he stays or not.

Hope that answers your question.
 
No, we are saying that United needs a long term reset and fix, not someone to "fix it a little" and "play to players strengths".

You are looking at short term meaningless results and getting angry that you can't get dopamine hits from sharing "yey we won" on social media.

Nothing is new. Amorim wants a style and we see glimpses of it.
Half of our squad is not good enough. Half of the other half are inconsistent.

We need a proper window and good preseason.

It's astonishing how some posters are desperate for a "yes man" in charge who will "fix it a little".

To build a new house, you burn the old one down.
And when the pillars of the old house are the likes of Onana, it's super simple to burn.
I'm not arsed about winning every week or having kudos on social media, I just want to see a team battling to win football matches. Too often this season, we've looked clueless. Yes, we looked as equally clueless under Ten Hag at times but we sacked him and should have seen some uplift in performances since.

We've tossed away more than half a season to give the benefit of the doubt to an inexperienced manager.

If we don't qualify for Europe, we'll be impacted by a huge drop in revenue and potential prize money. This, in turn, will impact on who we can bring in over the summer which will mean some of the current bozos will remain at the club anyway.

He's proven he can adapt with some battling performances at Liverpool, Arsenal and city. I just wanted to see that more often.

Watching the likes of Brighton, Bournemouth, Forest, Palace, Newcastle completely outplay us at home has been depressing. .

I'm not sure what anyone is getting from us getting the piss taken out of us by those teams.

Again, I'm also not convinced that there isn't a squad/formation within the current set up to maybe get us an extra 10 or so points. We picked one point from two away matches at Wolves and Ipswich ffs.
 
Apparently he now has a worse point tally than Hodgson at Liverpool.

I'm starting to worry that he may have bitten off more than he can chew here. But then, what getable manager would succeed in the current setup. Just depressing as shite. Reckon people will turn if we get knocked out of Europa.
For context, here's Hodgson's starting line up against United at OT in 2010 (when Berbatov scored a hatrick)

Reina
G. Johnson, Skrtel, Carragher, Konchesky
J. Cole, Meireles, Poulsen, Maxi
Gerrard
Torres​
 
Happy to answer from my perspective as I do see things I like on the pitch, though I would like to underline that: 1. I still put a lot of weight on what he did at Sporting, with good football, youth development, and drastically rebuilding a failing club, 2. His press conferences and general media persona are a significant factor, doing a good job of keeping his head and not deflecting blame whilst he faces a seemingly endless barrage of shit that is out of his control and 3. Whilst he has not done enough so far in the role to convince he is the man, I'd rather solve one big problem at a time, and recruitment and squad quality in THE main issue with the club.

-----

So firstly I can see what he's trying to do, and in theory I like it. A more structured and automated attempt to win the possession battle in defence and midfield, that then leads to releasing attacking players into space and high xg chances where they can express themselves and be creative. There's an extra defender, but you're still attacking with 5, even a sixth if one of the CMs pushes up, since the wbs can be both winger and defender.

The process of winning that battle at the back has started to show fruit. On plenty of occasions in most games now you'll see some fairly slick passing to beat the press, which then releases our attackers to run at the oppositions back line. Whilst this rarely results in goals (which I put down to the quality of our attackers), I can easily see how better players capitalise on those kinds of opportunities.

At other times you'll see the ball go directly into the 10 or 9 from defence, bypassing the midfield who've drawn the opposition out of the way, again creating good opportunities. Zirkzee has shown real value over the past couple months in receiving the ball like this, turning and setting up good opportunities. But again, a lack of quality elsewhere stops this being possible, and I can easily see how players with better hold up player make this a more consistent process.

I also like just having proper width again. I get a sad little buzz every time that switch is on to the wb who is free high up on the wing. Unfortunately its normally Dalot who is out there, and the opposition don't fear him and would rather cover Dorgu on the other side. Again, better wb options does more for us there.

So yeah tactically I'm up for it and can see it working. Sit back and counter was fun at times under Ole, but wasn't enough in the big games that required more tactical nous. I can't do that tortuous Dutch possession football anymore, its so fecking boring. And Ten Hag's suicide ball was just stupid. Its not going to be relentless pressure ala early Liverpool, but whilst that might be fun I don't think its sustainable with the amount of games you have to play these days. Case in point, I don't think its a coincidence that Liverpool finally win a proper league title now that they've calmed things down a bit - the league is too much of a marathon to be constantly pressing and running.

So I'm totally up for trying this Amorim ball. It needs better quality, but I honestly cannot think of a system that wouldn't require us to drastically rebuild anyway. I keep seeing people say find something that fits the players, but Im yet to see anyone put a convincing argument across about what that would be and how that would get us top 4 with the players we have.

------

So that's the structure, and I think you can see improvement in certain players as well. De Ligt is really starting to grow into the player I expected him to be, and I think he's going to flourish as the CCB over the next few years. Maguire as a stand in also looking better than he has in a long time. Casemiro looks reborn, which is a real credit to Amorim, not just in finding a tactical fit for him when he looked so washed, but also how he seems to have bought out a leader in him when I thought he'd checked out towards the end of Ten Hag's time. Zirkzee, who I had frankly written off, is now mourned by many after that latest injury, which tells you how well he's playing even though he isn't putting up the numbers. There's a lesson in the need to actually watch the games and not just look at the stats.

I think he's doing a great job with the kids as well. Heaven, Yoro, Dorgu all have a lot of pressure on them, often thrust in without the freedom to be eased in as kids should. But they're performing by and large. Dorgu is potentially the weakest of the three, but even then I think the criticism of him has been harsh, and he's had more good games than bad. Overall he's shielding these kids and developing them at the same time which is what we need him to do.

----

To pre-empt some the counter points - here's where I think he could do better. 1. Surely there's a pacey winger in the academy we can bring in to the run in behind at the end of games. Maybe I'm wrong, but there's too much pressure on Garnacho to be the only runner in the team 2. Could he have done more to help Hojlund improve? Told him to stop wrestling and just get on the end of crosses - I don't know.

----

So to summarise, I see what he's trying to do, I see evidence of it starting to materialise, I see really positive attributes in his management, and I think we can be patient with him whilst we sort out squad quality, that would need to be done regardless if he stays or not.

Hope that answers your question.
You’ve more than answered it. Thanks for that.
Would it be a fair summary to say that he has achieved quite a bit tactically, but that concerns mostly the defense as the offense still struggles heavily to capitalise on improvements in the build up play?
 
How can anybody here with a straight face convince themselves playing with 5 at the back is not a huge disadvantage to us.

Just look at the evidence it has resulted in Lindelof/Maguire playing as midfielder just to accommodate the third CB as part of the buildup phase, resulting in our CBs either just passing among themselves or completely irrelevant during buildup phase.

2nd big issue is we ended up with Eriksen and Ugarte in the middle against 3 highly energetic and athletic players. If we were playing 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, it would have allowed us to have Maino/ Casemiro to help and not allow Newcastle to overcrowd and overwhelm our two midfielders.

Then we have Wingbacks who are dropping soo deep almost making it a flat 5. It allows for other teams to have plenty of ball in their Defence and midfield as we can’t press them due to numerical advantage.

The formation requires wingbacks to attack like wingers, very few wingbacks are available in the world like Dani Alves, Davies, Frimpong etc who can actually attack like wingers and defend to a reasonable degree. Otherwise you will have either full backs who are not good enough in attack or wingers who are poor when defending.

The change to four at the back will make huge difference to our team not because our players will become world beaters. But because:

1) it would allow us to have one more attacking player thus more chance creations and goals and those draws turning into wins.
2) full backs not required to be wingers and only providing overlapping and crossing.
3) Bruno being utilized in his best position thus solving the goal scoring issue somewhat (could also used as a false 9).
4) Better pressing opportunities as more players numerically in attacking areas and less distance to travel thus better utilization of Stamina and energy.

People need to realize that this formation is very niche and requires amazing attacking players and full backs for it to be truly workable. People give example of Chelsea they had a prime Costa, Fabregas, Oscar and Hazard along with Kante and Matic in there plus they had the luxury of Moses actual winger adopting and suited to being a wingback. You put Costa, Fabregas and Hazard in our team we would be flying as well.
 
You’ve more than answered it. Thanks for that.
Would it be a fair summary to say that he has achieved quite a bit tactically, but that concerns mostly the defense as the offense still struggles heavily to capitalise on improvements in the build up play?
A very fair summary
 
The has been quite a shift recently in both the media and pundits highlighting how badly he is doing. His system is getting pulled apart as much as it does on the pitch.
Safe to say he will never achieve much in the PL. I don’t see 3 or 4 players making much of a difference when it’s so easy to play against.
The downward spiral of United will continue with him in charge. No way he turns this around because no one is buying this system.
 
I get that there are a lot of mitigating circumstances for Amorim. But other than the bad situation he’s in, what is he actively doing, other than his interviews and press conferences, that instils you with confidence?

Nothing, he more or less admitted in the Rio interview that he was out of ideas. I think I lost confidence in his capabilities after that segment. He's very one dimensional and lacks versatility. It's not just the formation but his interpretation of how it's adopted which is the problem for me.

This is why I keep comparing his use of the system with Alonso's, one has far much more nuance in and out of possession due to their philosophy but fans will ignorantly say it's because of the players.

Amorim will undoubtedly fail in his tenure at United, just like Dorgu, newer players will be purchased but the improvement will be so minimal that it's barely noticeable.

Next season he will need to finish in the top four, he'll only have one year left as a triggered option, at this point Jim would be an absolute lunatic to activate the further year in his contract.
 
Bluh-deh furriners ar tooo sex-eh


Hodgson had Gerrard in midfield and Luis Suarez up front.

Who the hell do we have? Bruno, maybe, a past it Case and Hojlund.

Keep things in perspective rather than torture ourselves with such comparisons.
Hodgson was sacked before Suárez was signed.
 
For context, here's Hodgson's starting line up against United at OT in 2010 (when Berbatov scored a hatrick)

Reina
G. Johnson, Skrtel, Carragher, Konchesky
J. Cole, Meireles, Poulsen, Maxi
Gerrard
Torres​

I'm not sure what context you're trying to provide here? That looks like a pretty horrible line up given how far Torres had fallen off at that point. That midfield is worse than what we have currently.
 
Nothing, he more or less admitted in the Rio interview that he was out of ideas. I think I lost confidence in his capabilities after that segment. He's very one dimensional and lacks versatility. It's not just the formation but his interpretation of how it's adopted which is the problem for me.

This is why I keep comparing his use of the system with Alonso's, one has far much more nuance in and out of possession due to their philosophy but fans will ignorantly say it's because of the players.

Amorim will undoubtedly fail in his tenure at United, just like Dorgu, newer players will be purchased but the improvement will be so minimal that it's barely noticeable.

Next season he will need to finish in the top four, he'll only have one year left as a triggered option, at this point Jim would be an absolute lunatic to activate the further year in his contract.
For me its a real concern. he seems a nice guy but lacks experience to cope with situation at United. His system worked in a weak league, admittedly at a club that had struggled but hardly a minnow. A bit like ETH, his 'system' doesnt translate well to PL. At least in the case of Amorim its fairly clear what he is trying to do, but he lacks the players, Even then I fear its a very defensive system and may get us more competitive but unlikely to challenge seriously, by which point a squad will need more work for the next guy. Exactly what we were told would not happen.
 
He come in as a fresh breath of air. Loved listening to him talk and explain things. Had high hopes that he is going to be the one to bring us back to the top. But based on what he has shown so far all the hope is gone and major doubts have crept in. I am not a believer in the idea that a manager can only show improvement by getting better players. He has to improve what has available and show that he deserves the trust and the Benjamins. Unfortunately, we have seen none of it under him. In fact, the expectations are so low that we go in as underdogs even against the bottom table teams. Simply not good enough. Big decision coming up for the management team in the summer.
 
I'm not sure what context you're trying to provide here? That looks like a pretty horrible line up given how far Torres had fallen off at that point. That midfield is worse than what we have currently.
It's whatever you want it to be but your thinking is the same as mine - that Liverpool team was mediocre at best, yet we are still doing worse than that team under Amorim.
 
He come in as a fresh breath of air. Loved listening to him talk and explain things. Had high hopes that he is going to be the one to bring us back to the top. But based on what he has shown so far all the hope is gone and major doubts have crept in. I am not a believer in the idea that a manager can only show improvement by getting better players. He has to improve what has available and show that he deserves the trust and the Benjamins. Unfortunately, we have seen none of it under him. In fact, the expectations are so low that we go in as underdogs even against the bottom table teams. Simply not good enough. Big decision coming up for the management team in the summer.
Hit the nail on the head. The bold statement is actually the worst thing, because to me we were never favorites against top six under EtH, but still a better team than the bottom half ones. Now, we arent that against any team.

Truth be told, he actuallty looks quite small and tender squatting there at the side line. Almost looking a bit lost. That is not a good sign.
 
He come in as a fresh breath of air. Loved listening to him talk and explain things. Had high hopes that he is going to be the one to bring us back to the top. But based on what he has shown so far all the hope is gone and major doubts have crept in. I am not a believer in the idea that a manager can only show improvement by getting better players. He has to improve what has available and show that he deserves the trust and the Benjamins. Unfortunately, we have seen none of it under him. In fact, the expectations are so low that we go in as underdogs even against the bottom table teams. Simply not good enough. Big decision coming up for the management team in the summer.
I'd think more of this board if they just sacked him at the end of the season rather than letting him limp along to an inevitable sacking in November or whatever. It's not going to work. 3-4 signings, if we can even afford them, are not going to turn this around. It was a near impossible job, a totally poisoned chalice, and he's not up to it.
 
There's going to be less training sessions, and way less (and crappy meaningless friendly with zero pressure) games in preseason, than it'll have been since Amorim took over until the end of current season. With little to no improvement to the "system" so far I find it a bit bizzare that some people believe there will be a sudden huge improvement in a few weeks of training before the new season starts.

Especially when a) due to finances not a huge squad turnover is expected b) even if there's high number of new recruits hardly any/non of them will be ready for the start of summer training or completing the majority of it. Still more than a month left so if there's no tangible upturn then it'll be really hard to expect much much better next campaign.
 
Hit the nail on the head. The bold statement is actually the worst thing, because to me we were never favorites against top six under EtH, but still a better team than the bottom half ones. Now, we arent that against any team.

Truth be told, he actuallty looks quite small and tender squatting there at the side line. Almost looking a bit lost. That is not a good sign.
Who gives a shit what he looks like? Guardiola looks like a scruffy divorced dad. Arteta looks like a hyperactive weasel. Slot looks like an angry bloated thumb.

At least Ruud looks tall and majestic in his turtleneck while hurtling towards relegation and going three months without seeing his team score a goal.
 
I’d be really interested to know how attitudes would be different if Amorim was a fat, balding Englishman. In theory it should make no difference, but i’m not so sure..
 
Hit the nail on the head. The bold statement is actually the worst thing, because to me we were never favorites against top six under EtH, but still a better team than the bottom half ones. Now, we arent that against any team.

Truth be told, he actuallty looks quite small and tender squatting there at the side line. Almost looking a bit lost. That is not a good sign.

Defeats are acceptable. I don't think anyone expected him to perform miracles and make us a champion team in his first season. However, being meek, pathetic and out of ideas against almost any team is not a good look.

Another thing that has bothered me for a while is that he keeps saying "I don't know, I don't know. If I knew I do it to make us better". And not just once or twice, but repeatedly. That comes from a lack of experience and from someone who is out of ideas.

I think it is naive to expect things will suddenly turn around with better players.


I'd think more of this board if they just sacked him at the end of the season rather than letting him limp along to an inevitable sacking in November or whatever. It's not going to work. 3-4 signings, if we can even afford them, are not going to turn this around. It was a near impossible job, a totally poisoned chalice, and he's not up to it.

That is my worry. If we had seen improvements in his tenure so far both in terms of play style and player performances, I'd be more inclined to place my trust in more marginal gains next season with the addition of 3-4 players in the summer. Unfortunately, we haven't seen any of that and look worse. We still capitulate when put under pressure. I have tried to look for some light at the end of the tunnel, but have seen none so far.

At this stage, I think a Europa win is the only thing that can save him. Otherwise, it'd be really tough for the management to roll the dice on him.
 
It’s interesting because I completely understand the outrage with results (it’s embarassing ), but at the same time I’m not sure what people expect to see that’s vastly different? Do people think 4231 counterball would have us vastly higher in the table? Does a change in formation suddenly mean we aren’t relying on Garnacho/Hojlund/Zirkzee for attacking production and sharp final third play? Will us playing a different system mean Ugarte and Casemiro will suddenly become anything close to a Newcastle level of athleticism, or technicians like Liverpools midfield?

I don’t think Amorim has done much of anything notable and I’m not sure if he is or isn’t the man to bring us back into contention. He says a lot of the right things and seems to have a pretty clear view of the situation (as opposed to the pure delusion of our last manager). But at a certain point there can't just be a shrugging of the shoulders when it's an endless stream of shit results. At the same time, I genuinely think the majority of our fanbase seems to not understand just how poor the squad is, specifically in midfield/attack. We are a bottom tier team in terms of athleticism, bottom tier in terms of technicality, and absolute rock bottom in terms of attacking sharpness/thrust. You can give any manager in the world those circumstances and the results/performances won't be much better than "meh" and thats best case scenario.
 
I'm not arsed about winning every week or having kudos on social media, I just want to see a team battling to win football matches. Too often this season, we've looked clueless. Yes, we looked as equally clueless under Ten Hag at times but we sacked him and should have seen some uplift in performances since.

We've tossed away more than half a season to give the benefit of the doubt to an inexperienced manager.

If we don't qualify for Europe, we'll be impacted by a huge drop in revenue and potential prize money. This, in turn, will impact on who we can bring in over the summer which will mean some of the current bozos will remain at the club anyway.

He's proven he can adapt with some battling performances at Liverpool, Arsenal and city. I just wanted to see that more often.

Watching the likes of Brighton, Bournemouth, Forest, Palace, Newcastle completely outplay us at home has been depressing. .

I'm not sure what anyone is getting from us getting the piss taken out of us by those teams.

Again, I'm also not convinced that there isn't a squad/formation within the current set up to maybe get us an extra 10 or so points. We picked one point from two away matches at Wolves and Ipswich ffs.

Well, most of our players are game raisers. They can't be bothered when the world isn't watching.
Honestly, against Newcastle we gifted 3 goals. Obviously Amorim wanted to take off early players for Lyon or give them complete rest. Unfortunately with Eriksen we played with 10 on the pitch.

If the result stayed 1-1 ot even 2-1, the picture until the end of the game would have been different. That Mazraoui mistake killed the team spirit.

Shit happens. One bad half full of individual mistakes can't undo the last 2 months of good work.


It's so painfully obvious that players are the problem, not the manager....