Smashley Young

[noodlehair]

Using your logic, we should have signed a different striker to Tevez and not Owen Hargreaves?

How do you think the season would have worked out then? Better than it turned out?

If that's possible yeah...we'd have been able to use Rooney in his best position whilst playing off a natural front player (see this season with Hernandez).

and since when are signings for one season? It'd have certainly helped the next two seasons when Hargreaves barely played, and we were forced to play Rooney out of position because we didn't have anyone who could play ahead of him and run in behind.

Part of the reason Hernandez has been such a hit is because he's exactly the type of player we've blatantly needed for about four years...albeit Owen can fill in from time to time in the same role.

 

[Fergie's Man]

And right now, with the market as is, SAF did get himself value and a player that will excel over the next 5 years.

 

[Wes]

If that's possible yeah...we'd have been able to use Rooney in his best position whilst playing off a natural front player (see this season with Hernandez).

and since when are signings for one season? It'd have certainly helped the next two seasons when Hargreaves barely played, and we were forced to play Rooney out of position because we didn't have anyone who could play ahead of him and run in behind.

Part of the reason Hernandez has been such a hit is because he's exactly the type of player we've blatantly needed for about four years...albeit Owen can fill in from time to time in the same role.

I think it's fair enough to say we wouldn't have beaten Chelsea in the final without Hargreaves

Besides, we had Saha on the books that year

 

[noodlehair]

I think it's fair enough to say we wouldn't have beaten Chelsea in the final without Hargreaves

Besides, we had Saha on the books that year

Yeah, I remember people telling me I was talking nonsense because Saha was going to stay fit this year...then in the first game we ended up with O'Shea up front because Saha was injured.

and how do you know it's fair to say anything? Chelsea outplayed us in midfield for much of the final and then we won because Terry fell over.

 

[Adzzz]

Yeah, I remember people telling me I was talking nonsense because Saha was going to stay fit this year.

and how do you know it's fair to say anything? Chelsea outplayed us in midfield for much of the final and then we won because Terry fell over.

By much of the final, you mean about 25 minutes of the second half.

Scholes gave them a masterclass.

 

[Wes]

Yeah, I remember people telling me I was talking nonsense because Saha was going to stay fit this year.

and how do you know it's fair to say anything? Chelsea outplayed us in midfield for much of the final and then we won because Terry fell over.

Thats bollocks, Noodle

We were brilliant in the first half and then Chelsea got a hold of the game, created probably one decent chance which they scored from and we overran them in the injury time.

 

[noodlehair]

By much of the final, you mean about 25 minutes of the second half.

Scholes gave them a masterclass.

Most of the second half, and I agree, Scholes was the best midfielder on the pitch...then he got tired and Chelsea took over.

 

[Hectic]

Yeah, I remember people telling me I was talking nonsense because Saha was going to stay fit this year...then in the first game we ended up with O'Shea up front because Saha was injured.

and how do you know it's fair to say anything? Chelsea outplayed us in midfield for much of the final and then we won because Terry fell over.

If they outplayed is in midfield for much of the final, it makes me think without Hargreaves we would have struggled even further. Especially when we didn't lose due to a lack of striking options, but won because Terry fell over.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

This is fecking nuts.

Has a thread about us signing a highly-rated, PL-experienced young winger really ended up being about how we actually should have won the double in 2008 more convincingly if only Fergie hadn't fecked up in the transfer market the previous summer?

 

[Hectic]

Yeah, I have to say this is completely retarded.

We should be celebrating a signing, not going on about wasted buys when the window has months left on it, old teams, Hargreaves when he could walk, O'Shea when he was cloned into a player capable of playing everywhere at once, badly.

 

[Rado_N]

What the feck is going on in this thread? Some of you are a right bunch of r-tards.

 

[sajeev]

he is not all that good, it is only the english bit and his last performance for england which seems to have every geed up.

anyone here who would say that we have unlimited resources? Or that the wings are more of a priority than mid-field?
So the signing of Young seems to be a problem, when one considers if it is the best use of resources at the disposal of the club. Yes, i understand that they have a plan and there would be a lot of thinking going into this signing, but there are reasons that a supporter wouldn't necessarily be thrilled by the signing of Young. And no I didn't understand us being after Sanchez either (especially as a winger or second striker). Young is not all that young and he is also expensive (when one considers the wages too). It isn't necessarily out-of-the-world thinking, to say that these resources would have been better utilised for the centre-midfield, since we don't have unlimited resources (maybe two mid-fielders instead of just one)

Also there could be doubts as to how this would affect the team dynamics with respect to attack on the wings. We know that Fergie is pretty good at managing players but we put ourselves at a disadvantage with Berbatov and Tevez. The chances are low, since Tevez is an exception, but there is always a risk that this move could un-settle one of Nani or Valencia (which would be something which makes this move less attractive).

Anyway, since Ashley Young is going to play for us, he will be given all the support, but that doesn't mean that at this point of time, the signing shouldn't be questioned.

 

[Rado_N]

he is not all that good, it is only the english bit and his last performance for england which seems to have every geed up.

anyone here who would say that we have unlimited resources? Or that the wings are more of a priority than mid-field?
So the signing of Young seems to be a problem, when one considers if it is the best use of resources at the disposal of the club. Yes, i understand that they have a plan and there would be a lot of thinking going into this signing, but there are reasons that a supporter wouldn't necessarily be thrilled by the signing of Young. And no I didn't understand us being after Sanchez either (especially as a winger or second striker). Young is not all that young and he is also expensive (when one considers the wages too). It isn't necessarily out-of-the-world thinking, to say that these resources would have been better utilised for the centre-midfield, since we don't have unlimited resources (maybe two mid-fielders instead of just one)

Also there could be doubts as to how this would affect the team dynamics with respect to attack on the wings. We know that Fergie is pretty good at managing players but we put ourselves at a disadvantage with Berbatov and Tevez. The chances are low, since Tevez is an exception, but there is always a risk that this move could un-settle one of Nani or Valencia (which would be something which makes this move less attractive).

Anyway, since Ashley Young is going to play for us, he will be given all the support, but that doesn't mean that at this point of time, the signing shouldn't be questioned.

For the love of god, why do people continue to think that spending money on one transfer now means we're not going to be spending money on another later? You realise there's 2 months of the transfer window remaining, right? Why does spending £11-15m on Young make you think we're not going to be buying a CM? The two are not mutually dependant on each other.

 

[Skywarden]

he is not all that good, it is only the english bit and his last performance for england which seems to have every geed up.

anyone here who would say that we have unlimited resources? Or that the wings are more of a priority than mid-field?
So the signing of Young seems to be a problem, when one considers if it is the best use of resources at the disposal of the club. Yes, i understand that they have a plan and there would be a lot of thinking going into this signing, but there are reasons that a supporter wouldn't necessarily be thrilled by the signing of Young. And no I didn't understand us being after Sanchez either (especially as a winger or second striker). Young is not all that young and he is also expensive (when one considers the wages too). It isn't necessarily out-of-the-world thinking, to say that these resources would have been better utilised for the centre-midfield, since we don't have unlimited resources (maybe two mid-fielders instead of just one)

Also there could be doubts as to how this would affect the team dynamics with respect to attack on the wings. We know that Fergie is pretty good at managing players but we put ourselves at a disadvantage with Berbatov and Tevez. The chances are low, since Tevez is an exception, but there is always a risk that this move could un-settle one of Nani or Valencia (which would be something which makes this move less attractive).

Anyway, since Ashley Young is going to play for us, he will be given all the support, but that doesn't mean that at this point of time, the signing shouldn't be questioned.

Yes, I'm sure SAF rationalised the same way.....

This is getting out of hand now.

 

[Adzzz]

The most annoying thing is Young is a very good player. It's not like we've signed Charlie Adam.



Yet

 

[Hectic]

he is not all that good, it is only the english bit and his last performance for england which seems to have every geed up.

anyone here who would say that we have unlimited resources? Or that the wings are more of a priority than mid-field?
So the signing of Young seems to be a problem, when one considers if it is the best use of resources at the disposal of the club. Yes, i understand that they have a plan and there would be a lot of thinking going into this signing, but there are reasons that a supporter wouldn't necessarily be thrilled by the signing of Young. And no I didn't understand us being after Sanchez either (especially as a winger or second striker). Young is not all that young and he is also expensive (when one considers the wages too). It isn't necessarily out-of-the-world thinking, to say that these resources would have been better utilised for the centre-midfield, since we don't have unlimited resources (maybe two mid-fielders instead of just one)

Also there could be doubts as to how this would affect the team dynamics with respect to attack on the wings. We know that Fergie is pretty good at managing players but we put ourselves at a disadvantage with Berbatov and Tevez. The chances are low, since Tevez is an exception, but there is always a risk that this move could un-settle one of Nani or Valencia (which would be something which makes this move less attractive).

Anyway, since Ashley Young is going to play for us, he will be given all the support, but that doesn't mean that at this point of time, the signing shouldn't be questioned.

Isn't the main point that you are questioning the signing under the pretence we have made wings a priority over midfield, despite us not saying that at all, and there being two months left to sign a midfielder? You are saying that we might have mispent on a player who is quite old, when that money could have been spent in midfield, making the assumption we brought a winger instead of a midfielder, or two.....

Weird assumptions.

 

[datura]

By all accounts we were after Young in January, Jones wasn't intended as a signing for this summer and De Gea is due in. SAF said he'd look at about 3 signings, so you would assume that the third will be a CM to replace Scholes. Patience.

 

[Bryan_Munich]

he is not all that good, it is only the english bit and his last performance for england which seems to have every geed up.

anyone here who would say that we have unlimited resources? Or that the wings are more of a priority than mid-field?
So the signing of Young seems to be a problem, when one considers if it is the best use of resources at the disposal of the club. Yes, i understand that they have a plan and there would be a lot of thinking going into this signing, but there are reasons that a supporter wouldn't necessarily be thrilled by the signing of Young. And no I didn't understand us being after Sanchez either (especially as a winger or second striker). Young is not all that young and he is also expensive (when one considers the wages too). It isn't necessarily out-of-the-world thinking, to say that these resources would have been better utilised for the centre-midfield, since we don't have unlimited resources (maybe two mid-fielders instead of just one)

Also there could be doubts as to how this would affect the team dynamics with respect to attack on the wings. We know that Fergie is pretty good at managing players but we put ourselves at a disadvantage with Berbatov and Tevez. The chances are low, since Tevez is an exception, but there is always a risk that this move could un-settle one of Nani or Valencia (which would be something which makes this move less attractive).

Anyway, since Ashley Young is going to play for us, he will be given all the support, but that doesn't mean that at this point of time, the signing shouldn't be questioned.

Bloody clueless that Ferguson fella.

 

[Rado_N]

By all accounts we were after Young in January, Jones wasn't intended as a signing for this summer and De Gea is due in. SAF said he'd look at about 3 signings, so you would assume that the third will be a CM to replace Scholes. Patience.

An unrealistic demand, by all accounts.

 

[Red Defence]

Give over moaning about our midfield.

Take it to another thread if you must but keep it out of here.

 

[sajeev]

For the love of god, why do people continue to think that spending money on one transfer now means we're not going to be spending money on another later? You realise there's 2 months of the transfer window remaining, right? Why does spending £11-15m on Young make you think we're not going to be buying a CM? The two are not mutually dependant on each other.

i know that, but the question still remains if it is the best use of our resources. we will only be able to answer the question some time down the line.

It is just that the circumstances are such that one might not necessarily welcome the signing whole-heartedly right now. For most right-thinking people it will change as the summer progresses and as the season begins

 

[Wan]

Drama queen.

 

[sajeev]

Isn't the main point that you are questioning the signing under the pretence we have made wings a priority over midfield, despite us not saying that at all, and there being two months left to sign a midfielder? You are saying that we might have mispent on a player who is quite old, when that money could have been spent in midfield, making the assumption we brought a winger instead of a midfielder, or two.....

Weird assumptions.

i am not saying, i am just saying it is understandable that the signing is not fully accepted.

 

[Rado_N]

i know that, but the question still remains if it is the best use of our resources. we will only be able to answer the question some time down the line.

It is just that the circumstances are such that one might not necessarily welcome the signing whole-heartedly right now. For most right-thinking people it will change as the summer progresses and as the season begins

Actually most right minded people won't come to any conclusions until the transfer window is closed.

As for the question of what is the best use of our resources; considering nobody outside of the club actually knows what our resources are I think it's best to leave that decision to the best manager in football.

 

[Red Defence]

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/does-anyone-else-think-we-might-not-buy-midfielder-summer-332685/

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/another-reason-why-we-need-central-midfielder-summer-333419/

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/what-kind-midfielder-do-we-need-332308/

https://www.redcafe.net/f6/where-does-our-midfield-rate-currently-europe-333542/

 

[sajeev]

Bloody clueless that Ferguson fella.

I do admit within the text that there would be a lot thinking going into the signing, which might not be apparent to those who are questioning it right now.

 

[datura]

i know that, but the question still remains if it is the best use of our resources. we will only be able to answer the question some time down the line.

It is just that the circumstances are such that one might not necessarily welcome the signing whole-heartedly right now. For most right-thinking people it will change as the summer progresses and as the season begins

You don't know what our resources are?

Most 'right-thinking' people who welcome positively the signing of a very good premiership proven performer to spice up our attacking options immediately, not wait, and look forward to other possible signings.

Pre season should be the time of optimism and excitement for the coming season, not dwelling on one defeat and obsessing about other teams and players we haven't signed.

 

[sajeev]

Actually most right minded people won't come to any conclusions until the transfer window is closed.

As for the question of what is the best use of our resources; considering nobody outside of the club actually knows what our resources are I think it's best to leave that decision to the best manager in football.

Yes i agree. And you would find that i haven't reached any conclusion. It is just that this is a forum (where people argue and in many cases just for the sake it, which might be true in this case too), and there doesn't seem to be an immediate need for Young. So it seems not too unreasonable to question the signing.

 

[sajeev]

You don't know what our resources are?

Most 'right-thinking' people who welcome positively the signing of a very good premiership proven performer to spice up our attacking options immediately, not wait, and look forward to other possible signings.

Pre season should be the time of optimism and excitement for the coming season, not dwelling on one defeat and obsessing about other teams and players we haven't signed.

I am not bothered about our defeat in the final. It is just that I am not sure if this is absolutely necessary.

I am absolutely fine with whatever happens during the transfer window, it just a discussion about this particular signing.

 

[Hectic]

i am not saying, i am just saying it is understandable that the signing is not fully accepted.

Not really. Your basis for not accepting the signing is that resources could have been spent elsewhere, despite there being two months left for us to do that. You are arguing we made a distinction and opted for wingers over midfielders, what we are arguing is that no-one knows this, and there's more then enough time for a midfielder anyway.

 

[Hectic]

Yes i agree. And you would find that i haven't reached any conclusion. It is just that this is a forum (where people argue and in many cases just for the sake it, which might be true in this case too), and there doesn't seem to be an immediate need for Young. So it seems not too unreasonable to question the signing.

Well, that's the point, it seems massively unreasonable to question the signing on the basis we won't sign be signing a midfielder, when there is two months left. It's like saying we brought Phil Jones instead of a goalkeeper.....

 

[Sultan]

Graft and craft: New Manchester United winger Ashley Young has it all, says former Aston Villa team-mate

Ashley Young takes on Switzerland's Philippe Senderos in the Euro 2012 qualifying
Ashley Young has arrived at Manchester United with a glowing tribute from one of his former Aston Villa team-mates.

Young completed his £16m switch to Old Trafford on thursday, and Villa midfielder Fabian Delph believes the men he left behind will miss him not just for his pace and skill, but also his work-rate.

Delph told the Birmingham Mail: "It happens all the time, it's football. People come and go and you have just got to deal with it and just keep going.

"I don't think he could be replaced, to be honest with you. His all-round work ethic was absolutely unbelievable. He must have run twice as much as most people on the pitch.

"With his goals and assists, it will be very hard to replace him - but if we can get somebody here half as good as him, then he would still be a great player.

"You get a lot of players who are not selfish, but do more of their work in the attacking half of the pitch, whereas Youngy is up and down, when he's on the right-hand side especially, working hard for the boys.

"The lads appreciate that from a winger who has flair, but still wants to graft."

Graft and craft: New Manchester United winger Ashley Young has it all, says former Aston Villa team-mate | Manchester Evening News - menmedia.co.uk

 

[sajeev]

Not really. Your basis for not accepting the signing is that resources could have been spent elsewhere, despite there being two months left for us to do that. You are arguing we made a distinction and opted for wingers over midfielders, what we are arguing is that no-one knows this, and there's more then enough time for a midfielder anyway.

well my argument might have come across that way. But it is not a view i totally endorse. I am saying it is one of the reasons, there seems to be a slight hesitation about this signing. The allocation part is just something at the back of the mind while thinking about this signing, it is not a complete deal-breaker.

it is just a grey-area, when one thinks about the signing, knowing what we know now (of course, I would be wrong to conclude that this would definitely lead to us not signing a midfielder, but i am not saying that)

anyways to conclude the discussion from my end, these are not definitive arguments but just questions on the basis of which i am yet to be completely won over by this signing

1) i am not sure he would necessarily add more than what Nani and Valenci currently do on the wings. (however it does strengthen the squad quite a bit). i am looking forward to being won over
2) The price (not a big question actually)
3) The resource allocation (i know this is not the right time to conclude anything on this front)

 

[Hectic]

well my argument might have come across that way. But it is not a view i totally endorse. I am saying it is one of the reasons, there seems to be a slight hesitation about this signing. The allocation part is just something at the back of the mind while thinking about this signing, it is not a complete deal-breaker.

it is just a grey-area, when one thinks about the signing, knowing what we know now (of course, I would be wrong to conclude that this would definitely lead to us not signing a midfielder, but i am not saying that)

Sorry, I don't mean to come across aggressive, and I'm not saying you hold this view, I realize you are playing devils advocate, or trying to explain why people may hold doubt. I know what you mean, but the reasons specified are unreasonable, as it suggests something that hasn't happened, and we aren't privy too. I like others, think we will be signing a midfielder, and that Young's signing has no bearing on that whatsoever. If we are wrong, so be it, but at least wait until that point until saying we've used our resources on the wrong player.

 

[Red Defence]

"I don't think he could be replaced, to be honest with you. His all-round work ethic was absolutely unbelievable. He must have run twice as much as most people on the pitch.

"With his goals and assists, it will be very hard to replace him - but if we can get somebody here half as good as him, then he would still be a great player.

Sounding more and more like a good signing by us.

 

[sajeev]

Sorry, I don't mean to come across aggressive, and I'm not saying you hold this view, I realize you are playing devils advocate, or trying to explain why people may hold doubt. I know what you mean, but the reasons specified are unreasonable, as it suggests something that hasn't happened, and we aren't privy too. I like others, think we will be signing a midfielder, and that Young's signing has no bearing on that whatsoever. If we are wrong, so be it, but at least wait until that point until saying we've used our resources on the wrong player.

cool, i am glad to have come out this argument with relatively less abuse

 

[Kelvin]

jesus all this moaning over young arrival is getting out of hand.

 

[IhabX7]

Here's a clip of him nutmegging Rooney in 07/08

Young Panna Rooney.wmv

If someone can upload it to youtube.. would be nice

 

[Adzzz]

Getting back to the actual signing, has he held the shirt up yet?

Always nice to see that.

 

[Trigg]

jesus all this moaning over young arrival is getting out of hand.

Its because they all want Sanchez even though Sanchez doesn't want them.