Fred

DVG7 · Dec 5, 2019

Fred ending up being a good player is one of the most unsurprising turn of events in recent years. Despite the inferior league, he had demonstrated enough in the games I watched him to show that he knows what he’s doing, especially when it comes to whipping the ball into someone’s feet at pace. We have seen elements of his dribbling ability recently too, which adds an extra dimension to his game. He really needs to stop taking shots with his right foot though.

New country, new language, new league, new everything. I have no problem with it taking a while for players to get used to new surroundings, and in Fred’s case he really hasn’t had a run until recently of 5 or more starts in a row. He’s a great example of why you need to be patient with players who have shown excellent potential.

FootyGirl88 · Dec 5, 2019

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

Devil may care · Dec 6, 2019

Decent performance against Spurs, I think he's still a bit dodgy but doing enough to be a squad player longer term.

Kostov · Dec 6, 2019

I give him lots of slack regularly but fair fecks, he regularly works his socks off and against Spurs it showed. Long term we will need better, but for now he is helping the cause.

WR10 · Dec 6, 2019

Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date

We've taken all the dirt off and polished our 50m gem. He's finally THAT good. Pogba is going to have a great time roaming around in front of him and Scott.

Rozay · Dec 6, 2019

Kostov said:
I give him lots of slack regularly but fair fecks, he regularly works his socks off and against Spurs it showed. Long term we will need better, but for now he is helping the cause.

Why can’t he be a mainstay in the team for years to come?

Rozay · Dec 6, 2019

Devil may care said:
Decent performance against Spurs, I think he's still a bit dodgy but doing enough to be a squad player longer term.

He was more than decent to be fair. Why is he dodgy? Seems he’s settled and is now playing consistently well.

Dr. Dwayne · Dec 6, 2019

SteveW said:
Agreed. If he goes we'll need to replace him.

There's no replacing Pogba. If he goes then the management will need to rethink their approach and bring in a player that compliments what we already have and how we want to play.

Kostov · Dec 6, 2019

Rozay said:
Why can’t he be a mainstay in the team for years to come?

Because despite his improvement in recent games, he isn’t and never will be top class or even the tier bellow that.

Rozay · Dec 6, 2019

Kostov said:
Because despite his improvement in recent games, he isn’t and never will be top class or even the tier bellow that.

Interesting.

MikeKing · Dec 7, 2019

Rozay said:
He was more than decent to be fair. Why is he dodgy? Seems he’s settled and is now playing consistently well.

He always has a mistake in him. I don't think that it matter too much, if he performs at that level consistently from here on out because at that point he'll definitely be a successful signing for us. I doubt it will continue due to his lack of consistency so far at the club and his age, combined with the fact he is still very dodgy in moments even when he plays really well. Just not very inspiring for the future, even if he has shown he has a good ability now.

Rozay · Dec 7, 2019

MikeKing said:
He always has a mistake in him. I don't think that it matter too much, if he performs at that level consistently from here on out because at that point he'll definitely be a successful signing for us. I doubt it will continue due to his lack of consistency so far at the club and his age, combined with the fact he is still very dodgy in moments even when he plays really well. Just not very inspiring for the future, even if he has shown he has a good ability now.

All footballers have a mistake in them. He’ll become the new Smalling of self-fulfilling prophecy in that when a mistake comes, it will have been inevitable. Some player’s mistakes overshadow all the good work they have done, others good work overshadows the odd mistake. His passing stats are probably the highest for us, so I do think it’s about perception.

He’s not old, he’s 26, and appears to have settled after his first year, and is now amongst our best players every game. He has been fairly consistent this season, but he seems in that Martial type of camp where he doesn’t have much string. His next poor performance will be over emphasised as the norm, whenever it comes I fear. He’s playing very well now, and is still at a good age. I likened him to Kanté I’m style when we got him, and of late, I think he’s putting in those sort of performances now. I’m not a fan of over-analysing statistics, but he must recover possession for us more than any other player, and amongst the most in the PL.

I see no reason why people are not positive about him being a part of the team going forward if we are looking at his performances this season objectively. As a £50m Brazilian international, he was bought to be in the team, and he is now showing that kind of form. I liken his situation to Naby Keita. He’s a bit similar in some aspects of his play, similar price tag, and similar initial disappointment. Difference is Keita hasn’t turned it around yet. This season, although I think it’s been established that nobody else agrees, but I think he’s been our best midfielder, and on that form, at only 26, I don’t see why he also is not being seen as a serious competitor for a first team place going forward. He’s doing the ball winning job incredibly well, and is also passing it well too.

USREDEVIL · Dec 7, 2019

Still not a fan. He did well this game though.

MikeKing · Dec 7, 2019

Rozay said:
All footballers have a mistake in them. He’ll become the new Smalling of self-fulfilling prophecy in that when a mistake comes, it will have been inevitable. Some player’s mistakes overshadow all the good work they have done, others good work overshadows the odd mistake. His passing stats are probably the highest for us, so I do think it’s about perception.

He’s not old, he’s 26, and appears to have settled after his first year, and is now amongst our best players every game. He has been fairly consistent this season, but he seems in that Martial type of camp where he doesn’t have much string. His next poor performance will be over emphasised as the norm, whenever it comes I fear. He’s playing very well now, and is still at a good age. I likened him to Kanté I’m style when we got him, and of late, I think he’s putting in those sort of performances now. I’m not a fan of over-analysing statistics, but he must recover possession for us more than any other player, and amongst the most in the PL.

I see no reason why people are not positive about him being a part of the team going forward if we are looking at his performances this season objectively. As a £50m Brazilian international, he was bought to be in the team, and he is now showing that kind of form. I liken his situation to Naby Keita. He’s a bit similar in some aspects of his play, similar price tag, and similar initial disappointment. Difference is Keita hasn’t turned it around yet. This season, although I think it’s been established that nobody else agrees, but I think he’s been our best midfielder, and on that form, at only 26, I don’t see why he also is not being seen as a serious competitor for a first team place going forward. He’s doing the ball winning job incredibly well, and is also passing it well too.

Well, they sure do. Not every midfielder plays a pass or lose the ball in a dangerous position almost always at least once each game. This is something Fred has been prone to, even when he has performed well. When those moments have happened earlier it has led to him losing confidence from it which has effected his performance from that point on. Those lapses of concentration in the PL have cost him already, so if he can adjust to the league enough so it wont be a lasting problem is still very much up for debate even after some nice games. While it's about perception, I think being overly confident in him now, considering his history at the club, would be.. hopeful to say the least.

He is a really cool player so I would like him to be more consistent. You can't really fault his work-rate and tackling ability. He is really tenacious and quick footed. He could actually suit the team very well going forward, if we get players that compliment him and McTominay both. I would have hoped for Fred to be a bit more calm on the ball when he drops deep, as that's where most of his mistakes happens, and I wished he was better when positioning himself in front of the defence. He might not be that type of player, so we'll have to judge him on what he brings to the table rather than what he doesn't. He has been frustrating up until this point with only a few good performances and little game time, so hopefully he can continue to redeem himself this season.

Rozay · Dec 7, 2019

MikeKing said:
Well, they sure do. Not every midfielder plays a pass or lose the ball in a dangerous position almost always at least once each game. This is something Fred has been prone to, even when he has performed well. When those moments have happened earlier it has led to him losing confidence from it which has effected his performance from that point on. Those lapses of concentration in the PL have cost him already, so if he can adjust to the league enough so it wont be a lasting problem is still very much up for debate even after some nice games. While it's about perception, I think being overly confident in him now, considering his history at the club, would be.. hopeful to say the least.

He is a really cool player so I would like him to be more consistent. You can't really fault his work-rate and tackling ability. He is really tenacious and quick footed. He could actually suit the team very well going forward, if we get players that compliment him and McTominay both. I would have hoped for Fred to be a bit more calm on the ball when he drops deep, as that's where most of his mistakes happens, and I wished he was better when positioning himself in front of the defence. He might not be that type of player, so we'll have to judge him on what he brings to the table rather than what he doesn't. He has been frustrating up until this point with only a few good performances and little game time, so hopefully he can continue to redeem himself this season.

I don’t think he’s made such mistake of late, and considering the circumstances of him now starting to settle and his mistakes reducing, I think we should be taking that for what he is. He obviously hasn’t built his reputation as a footballer by regularly passing to the opposition to create a chance, and there’s little reason to suggest that is the norm for him I think.

Ultimately; I’m not a massive fan of the 2-1 midfield set up though; and would prefer only one of him and McTominay in the team to focus on the dirty work, and the other to be replaced with more of a ‘footballer’. As I’ve said before, I don’t see why we need to constantly set up our midfield to first frustrate our opponent. For a big club, we should be controlling the possession in the midfield, dictating the game with passing, and for me, this much heralded pair is little more than a midfield for away against Barcelona. Too little class in it, and this notion that you can just put a great 10 in there to balance it is off, for me. 10s need others to play with to maximise their game. Not every pass is a defence splitting pass. Someone like Silva plays so many short passes all over the pitch to maintain control of possession and manoeuvre out of situations. That can only be done with similarly technical players around you. As it stands, I’d have Fred screening the defence and get another 8 with high technique and a bit of scrap to compete with McTominay alongside Pogba. Someone like Verratti, Saul or Koke would be perfect. Scott could also play the 6 role, although I think he’s better slightly further forward as I don’t see him as a player with the discipline for a set role, more like a Gerrard type of all action player. Tbh, he reminds me of Fellaini in many ways.

Bestie07 · Dec 7, 2019

He's always judged more harshly than other players, I don't understand why.

He wasn't even that bad last season either but made a few mistakes in possession which ended up costing us goals and that made those mistakes entrenched in people's minds.

Snow · Dec 7, 2019

Bestie07 said:
He's always judged more harshly than other players, I don't understand why.

He wasn't even that bad last season either but made a few mistakes in possession which ended up costing us goals and that made those mistakes entrenched in people's minds.

Transfer price. He would never have gotten the amount of scrutiny that he has if he had arrived on free. Daniel James however has been brilliant which I don't agree with. I think that age, fee and his start has already shapened people's view on him when in reality he's not scored in 15 games in a row and has games where he's got less than 70% pass success (he rarely hits 80% or higher). I think he's been fine, played better than I expected and probably one of our top 5 performers of the seaso but that's still not the same as being brilliant because if he had been brilliant we would not have 5 wins in 15 games

If people would no nothing about transfer fees or wages then we'd have healthier performance threads I'm sure.

amolbhatia50k · Dec 7, 2019

Bestie07 said:
He's always judged more harshly than other players, I don't understand why.

He wasn't even that bad last season either but made a few mistakes in possession which ended up costing us goals and that made those mistakes entrenched in people's minds.

We spent 50 million on him and he's been terrible. Last season we saw signs of his quality but signs aren't enough for a 25 year old. This season again, I'm seeing a player in him at times but he needs to produce over a stretch of time. At his age he can't be good one week and rubbish the next 4. This isn't a teenage prodigy whose promise we can lay our faith in for long run.

Recently I do feel there's but been turnaround. And Ive always felt his skillset is interesting. Would be great if he established himself as a quality player now. But no, his peformances in the past have warranted the criticism and bemusement.

MikeKing · Dec 7, 2019

Rozay said:
I don’t think he’s made such mistake of late, and considering the circumstances of him now starting to settle and his mistakes reducing, I think we should be taking that for what he is. He obviously hasn’t built his reputation as a footballer by regularly passing to the opposition to create a chance, and there’s little reason to suggest that is the norm for him I think.

Ultimately; I’m not a massive fan of the 2-1 midfield set up though; and would prefer only one of him and McTominay in the team to focus on the dirty work, and the other to be replaced with more of a ‘footballer’. As I’ve said before, I don’t see why we need to constantly set up our midfield to first frustrate our opponent. For a big club, we should be controlling the possession in the midfield, dictating the game with passing, and for me, this much heralded pair is little more than a midfield for away against Barcelona. Too little class in it, and this notion that you can just put a great 10 in there to balance it is off, for me. 10s need others to play with to maximise their game. Not every pass is a defence splitting pass. Someone like Silva plays so many short passes all over the pitch to maintain control of possession and manoeuvre out of situations. That can only be done with similarly technical players around you. As it stands, I’d have Fred screening the defence and get another 8 with high technique and a bit of scrap to compete with McTominay alongside Pogba. Someone like Verratti, Saul or Koke would be perfect. Scott could also play the 6 role, although I think he’s better slightly further forward as I don’t see him as a player with the discipline for a set role, more like a Gerrard type of all action player. Tbh, he reminds me of Fellaini in many ways.

He is a bit like Fellaini, but way less one dimensional and a lot quicker. I would rather have a physical player like McTominay in there regardless in that setup rather than playing Fred as the deepest midfielder, currently. But lets hope he can develop similarly to Fernandinho, I'm not sure but I seem to remember him using a couple of years to settle.

It's not a bad idea, we desperately need reinforcements. If we do keep Pogba I think we could probably do with someone like Rodri behind him. If you have a creative winger like Odegaard you could easily play McTominay in there to help Pogba cover ground and it'll still function as a passing side. I guess we badly miss balance either way we look at it, and it needs sorting. I don't think the McTominay, Pogba and Fred combination is a well balanced midfield but still should probably be good enough for top 4 if we just had a bit of cover in there. Don't think we're that far off honestly if we make the right signings.

Litch · Dec 7, 2019

This place? I thing arguably been our MOTM for the last 4 games and been pretty decent all season. He was outstanding against Spurs yet people still want to judge him not based on what they see now, but what they saw in the past. We'll see today again his influence on the game and if this continues, that 50m is going to look a bargain.

Litch · Dec 7, 2019

Snow said:
Transfer price. He would never have gotten the amount of scrutiny that he has if he had arrived on free. Daniel James however has been brilliant which I don't agree with. I think that age, fee and his start has already shapened people's view on him when in reality he's not scored in 15 games in a row and has games where he's got less than 70% pass success (he rarely hits 80% or higher). I think he's been fine, played better than I expected and probably one of our top 5 performers of the seaso but that's still not the same as being brilliant because if he had been brilliant we would not have 5 wins in 15 games

If people would no nothing about transfer fees or wages then we'd have healthier performance threads I'm sure.

Absolutely and complete guess work and utter nonsense. So if Fred had been brilliant, we would have won more than 5 games? It's down to him?

Litch · Dec 7, 2019

amolbhatia50k said:
We spent 50 million on him and he's been terrible. Last season we saw signs of his quality but signs aren't enough for a 25 year old. This season again, I'm seeing a player in him at times but he needs to produce over a stretch of time. At his age he can't be good one week and rubbish the next 4. This isn't a teenage prodigy whose promise we can lay our faith in for long run.

Recently I do feel there's but been turnaround. And Ive always felt his skillset is interesting. Would be great if he established himself as a quality player now. But no, his peformances in the past have warranted the criticism and bemusement.

What's age got to do with it? Great so when all footballers hit their 30's, they will be better than anyone who is 25? The set of standards ask of Fred isn't applied to another player in this team and even a MOTM performance in arguably our best performance for a year is belittled. Sadly, this will be how he's judged here as this place is hard to change people's sheep-like opinions when they are so anchored in the past. I predict he'll be one of our best players today too.....

Canagel · Dec 7, 2019

Litch said:
This place? I thing arguably been our MOTM for the last 4 games and been pretty decent all season. He was outstanding against Spurs yet people still want to judge him not based on what they see now, but what they saw in the past. We'll see today again his influence on the game and if this continues, that 50m is going to look a bargain.

You can easily tell when people don't watch the games. He's performed well last season vs Arsenal, West Ham, PSG, Barcelona etc but he's only "turned up" now or "proving his price tag" now. In reality he's simply continued his good work from the back end of the last campaign. The only problem is that some people have to do ten times more work than others to be recognized.

tenpoless · Dec 7, 2019

Fair play to him, doesn't seem to be the type to sulk.

Rozay · Dec 7, 2019

Litch said:
This place? I thing arguably been our MOTM for the last 4 games and been pretty decent all season. He was outstanding against Spurs yet people still want to judge him not based on what they see now, but what they saw in the past. We'll see today again his influence on the game and if this continues, that 50m is going to look a bargain.

This is the point I have been making, not only in this thread and with this player, but across the forum. There seems to be a lot of double standards on here when assessing players. Something that is unforgivable for one, is easily overlooked for another while their positives are instead celebrated. If we approached them all the same way, Fred has been brilliant by any metric. It doesn’t matter if he cost more than a next. There’s only one standard. If Kanté had turned in his recent performances, it would be seen as Kanté as normal. Forget last season, let’s look at how he’s playing now, instead of just hanging around until his next mistake.

amolbhatia50k · Dec 7, 2019

Litch said:
What's age got to do with it? Great so when all footballers hit their 30's, they will be better than anyone who is 25? The set of standards ask of Fred isn't applied to another player in this team and even a MOTM performance in arguably our best performance for a year is belittled. Sadly, this will be how he's judged here as this place is hard to change people's sheep-like opinions when they are so anchored in the past. I predict he'll be one of our best players today too.....

What's age got to do with? A lot? A 19 year old showing his qualities in fits and starts is fine. But a 25 year old doing that is obviously not. It's the same reason you'd temper your expectations for a 17 year old youth product than you would a 27 year old established player. It's simply a rational thing to do. Of course in Fred's case it's also important to allow him some leeway given some players take time to settle in. But it also doesn't make sense to pretend he hasn't been poor and bury one's head in the sand in denial regarding his disappointing peformances. We all hope he carries on his recent good form - he's beginning to look like the player the glimpses here and there shows the could be. Heck, let's hope he builds on it. But it doesn't change the past no matter what 'sheep' who want to change the narrative want.

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg · Dec 7, 2019

tenpoless said:
Fair play to him, doesn't seem to be the type to sulk.

that’s because he’s always getting married.

pleased to see an improvement, but he’s not good enough for us. Maybe SAF was onto something when he didn’t buy a midfielder for 5 years - the amount of money we have spent since, and still most teams walk through us. Thank god for McT. Schneiderlain, Schweinsteiger, Pogba, Blind, Matic and Fred must be close to £220m and actually it’s an academy lad holding things together.

Rozay · Dec 7, 2019

amolbhatia50k said:
What's age got to do with? A lot? A 19 year old showing his qualities in fits and starts is fine. But a 25 year old doing that is obviously not. It's the same reason you'd temper your expectations for a 17 year old youth product than you would a 27 year old established player. It's simply a rational thing to do. Of course in Fred's case it's also important to allow him some leeway given some players take time to settle in. But it also doesn't make sense to pretend he hasn't been poor and bury one's head in the sand in denial regarding his disappointing peformances. We all hope he carries on his recent good form - he's beginning to look like the player the glimpses here and there shows the could be. Heck, let's hope he builds on it. But it doesn't change the past no matter what 'sheep' who want to change the narrative want.

Context is required though. ‘The past’ everyone keeps going on about is not like it was a 3 year spell. It was one season, in which he still managed to show on a few occasions what he is capable of. His second season, he is showing it more frequently. He didn’t start playing football last season. He’s been known as a good player, hence United buying him (for a lot of money) and City trying to. I don’t get the inability to see him as anything beyond his last season’s form. That obviously isn’t the player we signed, otherwise we wouldn’t have signed him.

Rozay · Dec 7, 2019

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
that’s because he’s always getting married.

pleased to see an improvement, but he’s not good enough for us. Maybe SAF was onto something when he didn’t buy a midfielder for 5 years - the amount of money we have spent since, and still most teams walk through us. Thank god for McT. Schneiderlain, Schweinsteiger, Pogba, Blind, Matic and Fred must be close to £220m and actually it’s an academy lad holding things together.

Depends on how you chose to spin it. He’s ‘holding it together’ no more than Fred is doing this season, he’s just being paid three times as much in terms of praise. Fred has been better in a fair few games.

Champagne Football · Dec 7, 2019

I think Fred has more to his game than Herrera. So does McTominay.
We're still lacking a midfielder who can make things happen for the forwards. Maybe Kalvin Phillips can be that player. Maybe Eduaro Camavinga. I have a feeling we'll go all out for Phillips in the summer, but Leeds will do everything to make sure he doesn't end up at Utd.

DoomSlayer · Dec 7, 2019

Rozay said:
Depends on how you chose to spin it. He’s ‘holding it together’ no more than Fred is doing this season, he’s just being paid three times as much in terms of praise. Fred has been better in a fair few games.

Mate, are you doing this anti-McTominay agenda out of spite, because some supporters are not fans of your favourite player Pogba? This is the first time Fred has had a string of consistently good games, McTominay has overall shown twice as much since we got the Brazilian.

That's not me saying I don't want Fred doing well, on the contrary. I was heavily criticising him during the summer for missing most of the pre-season tour due to sheer stupidity and I will hold my hands up and say I never thought he will turn his fortunes around, but he is definitely proving me wrong. Imagine if we had Fred in this form from the start of the season and we could play him, McTominay and Pogba from the start - I'd wager that we would have 3-4 more points to our tally, at least, because we wouldn't have had to play Perreira and we would have been controlling the midfield a lot better and more consistently.

Rozay · Dec 7, 2019

DoomSlayer said:
Mate, are you doing this anti-McTominay agenda out of spite, because some supporters are not fans of your favourite player Pogba? This is the first time Fred has had a string of consistently good games, McTominay has overall shown twice as much since we got the Brazilian.

That's not me saying I don't want Fred doing well, on the contrary. I was heavily criticising him during the summer for missing most of the pre-season tour due to sheer stupidity and I will hold my hands up and say I never thought he will turn his fortunes around, but he is definitely proving me wrong. Imagine if we had Fred in this form from the start of the season and we could play him, McTominay and Pogba from the start - I'd wager that we would have 3-4 more points to our tally, at least, because we wouldn't have had to play Perreira and we would have been controlling the midfield a lot better and more consistently.

So you think it’s an agenda that I think Fred has played better than McTominay? And do you have any idea how old I am? ‘Your favourite player Pogba?’. What has Pogba got to do with this conversation? What about me flipping it and saying that you get sensitive over any questioning of your ‘favourite player McTominay’?

I don’t need anyone to be a ‘fan’ of any player, you should be fans of all of your players. On the football side, I would like people to keep the same rules for each player though, otherwise it is not me showing favouritism at all. My point is simple in that I noticed that McTominay is getting away with things others are being pulled up on, and he’s now better than them, but he obviously would be if we apply a prism where we ignore his weaknesses but do not for other players. On Scott, I think he’s our third best midfielder, and one of only 3 we have that is fit to even be here. That is not anti at all, and I refuse to be called anti-McTominay for anything less than joining the chorus of those saying he’s one of the best midfielders in the league. To me he isn’t, but so what? I’d love him to start every game for us this season, but must I also say that I think he’s better than Fred and Pogba before you are satisfied that I am being objective?

Canagel · Dec 7, 2019

DoomSlayer said:
Mate, are you doing this anti-McTominay agenda out of spite, because some supporters are not fans of your favourite player Pogba? This is the first time Fred has had a string of consistently good games, McTominay has overall shown twice as much since we got the Brazilian.

That's not me saying I don't want Fred doing well, on the contrary. I was heavily criticising him during the summer for missing most of the pre-season tour due to sheer stupidity and I will hold my hands up and say I never thought he will turn his fortunes around, but he is definitely proving me wrong. Imagine if we had Fred in this form from the start of the season and we could play him, McTominay and Pogba from the start - I'd wager that we would have 3-4 more points to our tally, at least, because we wouldn't have had to play Perreira and we would have been controlling the midfield a lot better and more consistently.

He's right. Mctominay gives the ball away a lot more and you will come on here and find it overlooked completely but strangely Fred is the mistake waiting to happen. Part of is no doubt due to the academy factor. The club tbemsleves love to remind us how many squads we had in a row with academy players so I can see why plus the fans love a success story from the academy to replicate the class of 92 so they get more leeway.
There just happens to be some players that can't do any mistake without it being magnified and all the good stuff is forgotten, which is the main sticking point. That's not saying he's not had good matches but if you were to compare his matches to someone like Fred in 2019 you would not find too much difference. Both have had good games and not so good. But reading the threads here without watching the matches you would get a complete different picture .

DoomSlayer · Dec 7, 2019

Rozay said:
So you think it’s an agenda that I think Fred has played better than McTominay? And do you have any idea how old I am? ‘Your favourite player Pogba?’. What has Pogba got to do with this conversation? What about me flipping it and saying that you get sensitive over any questioning of your ‘favourite player McTominay’?

I don’t need anyone to be a ‘fan’ of any player, you should be fans of all of your players. On the football side, I would like people to keep the same rules for each player though, otherwise it is not me showing favouritism at all. My point is simple in that I noticed that McTominay is getting away with things others are being pulled up on, and he’s now better than them, but he obviously would be if we apply a prism where we ignore his weaknesses but do not for other players. On Scott, I think he’s our third best midfielder, and one of only 3 we have that is fit to even be here. That is not anti at all, and I refuse to be called anti-McTominay for anything less than joining the chorus of those saying he’s one of the best midfielders in the league. To me he isn’t, but so what? I’d love him to start every game for us this season, but must I also say that I think he’s better than Fred and Pogba before you are satisfied that I am being objective?

So you find it frustrating that senior players like Fred and Pogba, with a combined worth of £142 million, are judged more harshly than McTominay? Not sure what your age has anything to do with it, I never mentioned that.

My point is that I see you criticising McTominay in numerous threads recently and that definitely stinks like an agenda to me. Yes, he is one of my current favourite players and I don't have to hide that, but objectively speaking, Fred has not shown enough yet to be talked about as better than McTominay. He may do that and I love that we have proper competition in the squad now, but I also believe Scott is still a young player, who has the potential to develop into something special.

If you don't, that's fine, but I've seen you specifically bring up his "weaknesses" in a few threads that have nothing to do with McTominay, it feels to me as if there is a specific reason behind that.

Snow · Dec 7, 2019

Litch said:
Absolutely and complete guess work and utter nonsense. So if Fred had been brilliant, we would have won more than 5 games? It's down to him?

If Fred? No, James and others. Our attack has been rubbish. Give it a read again.

amolbhatia50k · Dec 7, 2019

Rozay said:
Context is required though. ‘The past’ everyone keeps going on about is not like it was a 3 year spell. It was one season, in which he still managed to show on a few occasions what he is capable of. His second season, he is showing it more frequently. He didn’t start playing football last season. He’s been known as a good player, hence United buying him (for a lot of money) and City trying to. I don’t get the inability to see him as anything beyond his last season’s form. That obviously isn’t the player we signed, otherwise we wouldn’t have signed him.

I don't think anyone is unable to see beyond last season. But we can't be hailing players as unmitigated successes after 3-4 games. There's nothing wrong with some feeling slightly cautious while acknowledging that he's starting to look a player.

Devil may care · Dec 7, 2019

Rozay said:
He was more than decent to be fair. Why is he dodgy? Seems he’s settled and is now playing consistently well.

He's loose with the ball and has brainfarts positionally, there's an erratic nature to his play, it's just who he is IMO, at his age it's not a kid thing.

mu4c_20le · Dec 7, 2019

Another tireless performance.

Zoo · Dec 7, 2019

Really pleased for him.

Trophy Room · Dec 7, 2019

This lad was phenomenal today.

Fred

2019-20 Performances

New Member

❤

New Member

Full Member

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018

Master of Hindsight

Master of Hindsight

Self proclaimed tagline king.

Full Member

Master of Hindsight

Full Member

Master of Hindsight

Full Member

Full Member

Master of Hindsight

Full Member

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member

No 6-pack, just 2Pac

Master of Hindsight

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off

Full Member

Master of Hindsight

Master of Hindsight

New Member

New Member

Master of Hindsight

Full Member

New Member

Somewhere down the lane, a licky boom boom down

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off

New Member

Full Member

Full Member

Full Member