Erik ten Hag - Ajax Manager

Big E · Apr 13, 2022

First off he needs to start clearing out all the jokers which for me is at least half the first team squad. Massive task on his hands to start with and recruitment needs to be bang on

bosnian_red · Apr 13, 2022

amolbhatia50k said:
There are some mitigating factors for Rangnick though.
- interim coach with a disinterest bunch who know hell ne gone soon
- us in free fall under Ole and Rangnick not being one to give them a smiling phase but present the harsh truth
- he doesn't have any recent managerial success
- no signings made in Jan, no summer or pre season

Don't forget the Greenwood thing, which had a big impact on the squad. This stint is irrelevant for Rangnicks resume IMO. It was an impossible task and things only got harder. As an interim, there was never much hope IMO.

amolbhatia50k · Apr 13, 2022

bosnian_red said:
Don't forget the Greenwood thing, which had a big impact on the squad. This stint is irrelevant for Rangnicks resume IMO. It was an impossible task and things only got harder. As an interim, there was never much hope IMO.

Greenwood. Rashford and Martial falling to pieces last season. Cavani never available.

I still feel Rangnick should have had a bigger impact from a tactical and system pov but we do have to consider these factors ans that he's interim coach of a team that has serious issues in terms of morale, form and drive. Not to mention they're not geared up for modern footy right now.

ETH with a summer to make changes and train players will hopefully yield better outcomes.

But despite my disappointment in Rangnicks performance, I still feel that his role at executive level is a different matter. And from what i read it sounds very limited.

ayushreddevil9 · Apr 13, 2022

Tarrou said:
Are you really arguing that Maguire didn't have a good season at Leicester before United and City were both trying to buy him?

Yes.

Cassidy · Apr 13, 2022

Tarrou said:
Are you really arguing that Maguire didn't have a good season at Leicester before United and City were both trying to buy him?

He didnt really have a great season

Bertie 2 Hats · Apr 13, 2022

I hope Erik brings with him his current assistant manager.. Mitchell Van der Gaag.. who has played a key role in Ajax's defensive resilience. .

RiqCantona · Apr 13, 2022

bosnian_red said:
Its never a 5 year project ffs.

This summer/ year 1 - implement style, address DM/ST. Top 4 fight

Next summer/year 2 - address issues from year 1, replace weak points, push on to a steady/safe top 4 team who can punch with heavy weights in 1 off games but maybe lacks consistency

Summer 2024/year 3 and later - upgrade other parts where needed, step up to title challenging form, start competing seriously for CL and other trophies.

Its naturally going to be probably 1.5 seasons (2 summer windows/2 January window) of inconsistency/teething issues, but past that should come a step up.

This makes sense. We should ideally start challenging for the title from the 3rd season. Mind you we aren't as horrible Liverpool was when Klopp took over. Their average position over the few seasons (barring their title challenge in 2014), was 6-7th. United, on the other hand, have an average position of 4 for the last 7 seasons.

Adnan · Apr 13, 2022

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Adnan · Apr 13, 2022

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Adnan · Apr 13, 2022

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MyOnlySolskjaer · Apr 13, 2022

Quotes are promising. Would be great to see a manager that can improve our players. If he can get another level out of Fernandes, Rashford and Elanga that would be great.

Womp · Apr 13, 2022

MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Quotes are promising. Would be great to see a manager that can improve our players. If he can get another level out of Fernandes, Rashford and Elanga that would be great.

I wouldn't be surprised if people are surprised at how much better our players can look in a proper system.

VidaRed · Apr 13, 2022

All these quotes are meaningless if the players throw him under the bus because he's asking a lot from them whilst the board looks on and fans pounce on the manager.

ayushreddevil9 · Apr 13, 2022

MyOnlySolskjaer said:
Quotes are promising. Would be great to see a manager that can improve our players. If he can get another level out of Fernandes, Rashford and Elanga that would be great.

Can't place my bets on this lot to improve. Feel like these are untrainable.

Red the Bear · Apr 13, 2022

Let's not get too excited while he has admirable track record so far our job is another beast, also we heard the same stuff with Ralf and look how that turned out.

hellhunter · Apr 13, 2022

Red the Bear said:
Let's not get too excited while he has admirable track record so far our job is another beast, also we heard the same stuff with Ralf and look how that turned out.

I'm a fan of Ralf, but he barely coached the last decade and his track record wasn't exactly filled with silverware. Don't think thkse two are anyhow comparable

Gazautd18 · Apr 13, 2022

RiqCantona said:
This makes sense. We should ideally start challenging for the title from the 3rd season. Mind you we aren't as horrible Liverpool was when Klopp took over. Their average position over the few seasons (barring their title challenge in 2014), was 6-7th. United, on the other hand, have an average position of 4 for the last 7 seasons.

Whilst I agree with this, we also have to take into consideration that a lot of teams have got better as we've dropped off.
Spurs, Arsenal, West Ham, Leicester(when they get all their injured players back)

Tarrou · Apr 13, 2022

Cassidy said:
He didnt really have a great season

I said he had a good season. He did.

ayushreddevil9 said:
Yes.

Haha, okay.. We paid £80m on a defender who didn't even have a good season. Agree to disagree.

Red the Bear · Apr 13, 2022

hellhunter said:
I'm a fan of Ralf, but he barely coached the last decade and his track record wasn't exactly filled with silverware. Don't think thkse two are anyhow comparable

Mostly meant the media hype , especially athletic can be quite dramatic in their hipster coverage of things.

This'll make it so that the first instance of ten hag having some trouble turns the fans against him calling him Pep Guardiola is my idol etc etc.

ayushreddevil9 · Apr 13, 2022

Tarrou said:
I said he had a good season. He did.

Haha, okay.. We paid £80m on a defender who didn't even have a good season. Agree to disagree.

We paid 80m for a CB because we had a dinosaur managing us with a hard-on for building a British spine at the club.

There were far better options available if the scouting department did their job.

Maguire had never been in the PL team of the season before joining United(atleast that's what I remember, might be wrong).

Adam-Utd · Apr 13, 2022

Red the Bear said:
Mostly meant the media hype , especially athletic can be quite dramatic in their hipster coverage of things.

This'll make it so that the first instance of ten hag having some trouble turns the fans against him calling him Pep Guardiola is my idol etc etc.

Rangnick barely got a fair crack of the whip either though. He tried his best but no signings of his own, the players couldn't make his 4-2-2-2 work etc.

Results obviously should have been better but at the same time I don't think that's purely his fault alone.

mctrials23 · Apr 13, 2022

amolbhatia50k said:
I still feel Rangnick should have had a bigger impact from a tactical and system pov but we do have to consider these factors ans that he's interim coach of a team that has serious issues in terms of morale, form and drive. Not to mention they're not geared up for modern footy right now.

I think that if the players just did as they were asked and applied themselves then he would have been fine. Hes not a charismatic or friendly manager like Ole was at the start of his time here and I think the players have basically just ignored him. You could see the start of what he wanted in the first half of his first game and then it just evaporated. Either RR didn't like it (which I would be astounded) or the players were not fit enough and were not applying themselves enough to gain the fitness that it just all got abandoned.

This is going to be ETHs biggest job as well. Motivating and getting buy in from these players. Many of whom have been quite happy to take their excessive paycheques and give the bare minimum.

horsechoker · Apr 13, 2022

I hope people are patient with him, Klopp was given time to dismantle Brendan's Liverpool which took about 2-3 seasons and which produced a lot of turbulent form.

A similar job will be required here, a lot of shrewd signings and farewells will be needed. Start with the players who are the end of their contracts to free up wages and then bring in a defensive midfielder to kick things off.

Hastar · Apr 13, 2022

Most of your recent managers, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ragnick, etc. are individuals who were/are obsessed with football. So these quotes or stories about Ten Haag aren't a new or great insight.

The most important thing, which City and Liverpool have done, is create a working structure around the manager and given them complete authority.
Even Arsenal have done that for Arteta.

If United don't give him a good support structure and a free hand to build his teams, even Ten Hag will fail.

Red the Bear · Apr 13, 2022

Adam-Utd said:
Rangnick barely got a fair crack of the whip either though. He tried his best but no signings of his own, the players couldn't make his 4-2-2-2 work etc.

Results obviously should have been better but at the same time I don't think that's purely his fault alone.

I feel we should have given cl a lot more effort.
Also he should have just reverted to pragmatism the way Carrick did considering that were not playing his style of football anyway next season, so attempting to implement a style defeats the whole purpose.

SuperiorXI · Apr 13, 2022

So it looks like he's going to be the new manager. I'm glad as he's the one I wanted... I wasn't going to throw a hissy fit if we ended up with Poch though simply because I think what has happened is an overrating of ETH and severe underrating of Poch. That's by the by though, it's going to be ETH.

I hope he does what I expect which is to bring in fresh ideas and bring an authority to regain control of the club over the players. He needs to get a strong backroom staff in so will be interesting to see who he picks.

Ultimately though, if the change doesn't happen above him, he's going to have his hands tied behind his back from day one, so I remain sceptical.

VidaRed · Apr 13, 2022

Red the Bear said:
Let's not get too excited while he has admirable track record so far our job is another beast, also we heard the same stuff with Ralf and look how that turned out.

Every manager will fail if he's not given authority over the players.

mctrials23 · Apr 13, 2022

ayushreddevil9 said:
We paid 80m for a CB because we had a dinosaur managing us with a hard-on for building a British spine at the club.

Who are you talking about here? Mourinho wanted Maguire the season before I am pretty sure. There is a decent defender in Maguire but his weaknesses need covering which is something we have never done. The question is, how much does covering those weaknesses impact the attacking intent of the side. I don't want United playing the sort of utter dross England set up to play. Its quite easy to look decent when 8 of your players are largely defensively focussed.

Adam-Utd said:
Rangnick barely got a fair crack of the whip either though. He tried his best but no signings of his own, the players couldn't make his 4-2-2-2 work etc.

Wouldn't I think is the better word. They were not fit enough but they didn't even give it a fair go. Too many players unwilling to press or dig deep. Watching RM and Chelsea last night brought home just how horrendously out of shape our team is. Both teams were going at it for 120 minutes. We can't even go at it for 45.

Adam-Utd said:
Results obviously should have been better but at the same time I don't think that's purely his fault alone.

One thing I would say under RR is that we haven't won many games that we didn't deserve to win and we have draw / lost a few that we did deserve to win. Under Ole it was the opposite. Too many games we deserved to lose were won and rarely did we lose when it wasn't merited.

The loss of Greenwood has been underplayed by quite a few people as well IMO. He was a game changer for us and with Ronaldo and Rashford in historically bad form and Cavani MIA he would have been worth his weight in gold.

Red the Bear · Apr 13, 2022

VidaRed said:
Every manager will fail if he's not given authority over the players.

Then let's hope ten hag is given one.

2cents · Apr 13, 2022

Hastar said:
Most of your recent managers, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ragnick, etc. are individuals who were/are obsessed with football. So these quotes or stories about Ten Haag aren't a new or great insight.

The most important thing, which City and Liverpool have done, is create a working structure around the manager and given them complete authority.
Even Arsenal have done that for Arteta.

If United don't give him a good support structure and a free hand to build his teams, even Ten Hag will fail.

I get the feeling we are consciously modeling our strategy on Liverpool of the last six or seven years. Although I’m less than convinced we have the competence and guile in terms of personnel to pull it off.

Tarrou · Apr 13, 2022

ayushreddevil9 said:
We paid 80m for a CB because we had a dinosaur managing us with a hard-on for building a British spine at the club.

There were far better options available if the scouting department did their job.

Maguire had never been in the PL team of the season before joining United(atleast that's what I remember, might be wrong).

Yeah I agree with most of that but it's got nothing to do with what I said.

Anyway you disagreed and that's okay with me.

Adam-Utd · Apr 13, 2022

Hastar said:
Most of your recent managers, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Ragnick, etc. are individuals who were/are obsessed with football. So these quotes or stories about Ten Haag aren't a new or great insight.

The most important thing, which City and Liverpool have done, is create a working structure around the manager and given them complete authority.
Even Arsenal have done that for Arteta.

If United don't give him a good support structure and a free hand to build his teams, even Ten Hag will fail.

Mourinho was obsessed with himself, not football.

Our biggest issue has been flip flopping between different syles. We went from a well drilled possession based style in LVG that lacked penetration, to a counter attacking long ball side under Mourinho.

We then bought players to accomodate the managers and ended up basically wasting 6 years with a huge turnover.

Our recruitment hasn't been brilliant either over the years. Apart from Fernandes we haven't signed anybody who you can say has truly improved the side.

JanK · Apr 13, 2022

Erik can manage the situation. He knows how shite the situation is.

I think that bringing Ralf as interim was a masterstroke - he can see everything from the core perspective and pass the valuable information to Erik: which players are lazy, who has attitude problems etc. All this saves so much time and energy for Erik's successful onboarding and we can start chopping the rot in summer effectively.

Samid · Apr 13, 2022

Are we allowed to have cocks out for managers too? Or is that reserved for player arrivals only?

El Jefe · Apr 13, 2022

If he comes over, great. I'll be cautiously optimistic but won't prepare myself for being let down as a lot of you do time and time again. I've been guilty of this too in the past.

Look at the Rangnick thread when he was announced and it's laughable reading the expectations many had. We had tactical 'gurus' telling us what to expect and none of it happened.

My take with ETH is nothing he's done at previous clubs matters until I see him replicate it here.

Giggsyking · Apr 13, 2022

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stu_1992 · Apr 13, 2022

marktan said:
People say this about every manager we sign just because of the dopamine hit. No one knows if he'll be any good for us, plenty of Eredevisie managers and players looked great at Ajax and then were rubbish elsewhere.

Oh absolutely. I am by no means saying he's a guarantee of anything. Just the potential of a way forward is exciting. Sure, he could crash and burn but if he can get us playing anywhere near the standard of his Ajax team then it's an exciting process. There's no point in being negative on it at this stage.

Giggsyking · Apr 13, 2022

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L1nk · Apr 13, 2022

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DomesticTadpole · Apr 13, 2022

VidaRed said:
All these quotes are meaningless if the players throw him under the bus because he's asking a lot from them whilst the board looks on and fans pounce on the manager.

I suspect even the board are now onto the players and what they do. The fact they brought Ralf in who I think was sussing out who the problems are. Some of the ones people think are a problem are more than likely just having a dip in form and confidence. The fact we are bringing in a modern coach instead of the same old quick fix makes me hopeful that they have realised there are a lot of problems and it will take time. The board as I have banged on about before need to tell the players any leaks to press from either them or their 'people' and it will be the end of their careers at United. They have to show they are backing the manager both financially and how he runs the team.

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