It's not bad on here at all, only a few members still defending him. But on social media there are tons of people who think everything is wrong with the club except the manager and he should be given another year at least. It is really bizarre, I have not seen this behavior in other fanbases. We know that was the case with previous managers as well. Match going fans backing managers till the very end, giving them standing ovations, even when it was clear they were failures.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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Even if that was true how could that happen when our manager had more say in transfers than any other manager does? Surely then he's a lot more to blame that "just" poor tactics and massive holes in midfield every week.
The likes of West Ham and Brighton don't have similar quality squads to ours, come on now.
The reason why I don't believe in this explanation is due to results masking performances, and his player selection with the players he has. This shows the players are actually giving us results, and his tactics are making it worse for us. If instead, the performances were there, but the results were not, that would show that his tactics are good, but through variance, the results are not there or that the players messed up what advantages his tactics brought to the side.
I don't believe that due to results masking performances, and his player selection. It doesn't matter if McTominay can get you a result, if you're trying to build up your style to be one that is better in possession, handling presses, and so on, he should not be playing. If you value control, you should be playing someone like Amad more. If you value your pressing, you should not tolerate a player like most of this season's Rashford (his effort has improved compared to the first half).
This shows he doesn't value what I believe you, who defend him, believe he's trying to achieve.
The gaping holes in midfield shows he doesn't value compactness enough. It shows that he still believes his team pressing can still serve as an advantage despite the gaping holes, even though they actually contradict the effectiveness of the pressing. The amount of chances we create, and the control we have in matches contradict what his tactics are trying to achieve. We're not getting advantages from his tactics, and having to put up with the negatives as a result of that. For example, having 2 of our midfielders pushed so high up should make you more vulnerable, but also give you more chance creation. That's not happening. We're just stuck with the negatives. United are conceding so many chances, and United are boring in attack.
I don't see anything that you can point to where you can justify believing today's performances+results will lead to great performances+results. Every explanation has gaping holes. He would have to completely change his tactics or coaching for us to see that.
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The narrative there is "how dare the club not protect poor ETH from himself by ensuring he doesn't have a big say in players?"
Some people think if he just gets given the Spurs or Villa squad, he'd coach the hell out of them.
Bravo Sir.
I'm not defending him, I have done in the past, but I don't really any more, I do believe there is value in sticking to your principles and letting that result in the players who can't adapt being jettisoned. There are so many players in this squad who just do not have to physical or technical qualities to play the way he wants.
If you have forwards who make good decisions on the ball and don't give it away cheaply and have pace in your rest defence. Then gambling with 2 advanced midfielders is less of a problem. If you have a quick sitting midfielder and pace in your rest defence, you can maybe get away with players giving the ball away cheaply every now and again, because you have the recovery pace to get the ball back.
Now if you play two advanced midfielders and have forwards that give the ball away cheaply, and no recovery pace in midfield and defence, then what you see is what you get with Utd every week. It's obvious to anyone that sees this shower play every week, give the ball away cheaply and don't have the legs to cover.
If people think that any other manager coming in is going to take this squad from where it is now to challenging for trophies, then they better be ready to sit out another 2-3 years of finishing between 5th and 10th. Because regardless of ETH or his tactics, the vast majority of these players just aren't any better than that.
Thats very unfair on him. He never got a fair shake and had a circus squad.
He did say some ballsy things in pressers but I'm not going to mark him down from Chelsea. That club has been a joke for 2 seasons (hope it continues too).
ETH isn’t slowly developing anything. Our style of play has been getting worse and worse since the giddy heights of that Tottenham win at home in 2022/2023.
Absolute Stockholm syndrome behaviour and they're proud of it. And some on here have the gall to tell us they are the people who should be making decisions on the club.
If we were run by some of those 'back the managers', we'd still be stuck with Moyes or LvG.
Correct me if I'm wrong but has he not basically been non-existent since moving to Benfica? There was talk of them already looking to get rid and this was his first 90 minute game since joining. He'd only played 78 mins combined in his first 11 games. Bit of a stretch to go in this direction after one decent performance.
Excellent reminder. Other occasions I’ve watched Alvaro he has looked an exceptional talent. Strange that ETH has frozen him during our LB crisis.
I find it ridiculous that some of you think throwing more managers would have made any meaningful difference.
Our club would have just blown more money and our squad would be even more disjoined. Do you understand, United managers don’t negotiate fees for players. They don’t give stupid contracts to players. They don’t care about the book value of the squad and give stupid contact extensions to players nobody wants.
Serious clubs offload players not good enough. Serious clubs don’t keep unhappy players at the club for 6 years (Pogba). Serious clubs don’t consistently have 2-3 positions on a pitch that are lacking in Backup. Serious clubs don’t need to buy several players for RW position.
Serious clubs don’t make as many “oh look that player is available and looks good on paper, let’s get him” signings.
No manager would of come in am done much better then maybe get us an extra top 4 spot which is not good enough.
Precisely.
I don't think that has to be the case. United grants any new manager the chance to completely change the preferred style of play etc. That's what leads to the disjointed squad. If the club gives less chance to do that to managers, than the squad building would be much better. Not treating every manager signing as a long-term project could make a difference in that regard.
The club decides what structures are in place. A manager can’t choose to have that power. Our transfer issues are club issues , not Manager issues.
I’m not blindly backing anything, just stating facts. If you don’t like it, keep scrolling. You don’t have to reply just to insult and belittle.there's blindly backing the manager, and then there's this. Bizarre.
I happen to agree but I was never that bothered by Oles style anyway - we won more often than not (pre-Ronaldo) and it was entertaining. That’s all I need. Don’t stop the Caf experts crying about possession, patterns of play and progressive style though.
Agreed but ask yourself, would he be any worse than AWB?
Yes but it's a club issue that they don't set a general strategy how the team should play but leave that to each manager, and then sign players for that (and even that sometimes quite badly)
Here is the one thing I don't get about him. He is known as a pragmatist and changed his tactical style after some of his most important players (de Jong, de Ligt) left at Ajax and his tactics worked for the players he got. When he joined us, he tried his old Ajax style, playing out from the back but got found out and I agreed at the time that with de Gea in goal and a lot of players who were clearly not comfortable with the ball at their feet, or players who simply favoured a very direct plying style not very suited to patient build ups, it was probably a bad idea to try and play like his best Ajax side.
We bought players who were supposedly bring us closer to a possession style of player, players comfortable with the ball at their feet, even a goalkeeper that many think is probably the best goalkeeper to have if you want to play a possession style.
Well at least that is what I thought we were doing. Yet we now seem to be hell bent on being a counter attacking team that also has half of the team pressing high, while the other half drops deep as soon as we lose the ball. Something no one else does at this time, okay could be a stroke of genius, you sometimes have to innovate and try new things, but it's pretty clear that all our opponents understand how to exploit the gap in midfield, so why persist with it, I thought he was good at adapting?
Why does he try to do the same thing week in and week out? Is he of the opinion that every other approach would leave us even in a worse place? Does he need another summer of transfers before he feels comfortable of changing our playing style again? The thing is I try to find reasons to why he does what he does and why he insist on a play style that is clearly not working, we are currently 6th in the league and closer to place 10 than we are to place 4.
Out of all the managers we had his decisions leave me the most confused.
We bought players who were supposedly bring us closer to a possession style of player, players comfortable with the ball at their feet, even a goalkeeper that many think is probably the best goalkeeper to have if you want to play a possession style.
Well at least that is what I thought we were doing. Yet we now seem to be hell bent on being a counter attacking team that also has half of the team pressing high, while the other half drops deep as soon as we lose the ball. Something no one else does at this time, okay could be a stroke of genius, you sometimes have to innovate and try new things, but it's pretty clear that all our opponents understand how to exploit the gap in midfield, so why persist with it, I thought he was good at adapting?
Why does he try to do the same thing week in and week out? Is he of the opinion that every other approach would leave us even in a worse place? Does he need another summer of transfers before he feels comfortable of changing our playing style again? The thing is I try to find reasons to why he does what he does and why he insist on a play style that is clearly not working, we are currently 6th in the league and closer to place 10 than we are to place 4.
Out of all the managers we had his decisions leave me the most confused.
Weird because I remember hearing a lot of boos during LvG's 2nd season. Hell I even remember Fergie getting booed when we lost to Blackburn in 2005.
Patience is no longer a virtue.Now now, we don't need any of this common sense round ere!
Brilliant post.
I remember going to a seminar for my industry (investments and financial advice), probably over a decade ago. They showed two examples of people scrolling through Facebook. One was going slow enough and the other much faster, ridiculously fast.
The point was that with digital technology and different mediums , attention spans are harder than ever to keep. Binge TV means we no longer have to wait a week for most of our favourite episodes. Our society is getting more and more impatient because we are spoilt with choice.
Gambling options on our tv in game is in the pipeline. You will be able to click a button on your remote and bet instantly on a corner being taken.
In short, our world is now all about offering instant gratification and most people expect what they want now.
Let me clarify by saying this does not mean that ETH should defo be kept on next season. I’m just saying , whether he’s been unlucky this season or not, in modern day football you aren’t afforded any benefit of the doubt.
Most people don’t look any deeper then “we play crap , must he manager”. And the media throw on the kind of pundits who will say the kind of stuff most fans want to hear.
We looked a better team with a far better playing style last season. There's no development. We've gone backwards.
Whilst I have genuinely been astonished by how bad we have looked this year I choose to subscribe to the idea that you have to enjoy the bad times before you reap the benefits.
In no way am I a deluded supporter of ETH, that's impossible he has truly failed us this year. However he has had a lot to contend with and so much he still has to fix. It's going to take more time and it's not going to be pretty. I don't need to go into how many injuries we have had in defence this year, we all know. But is ETH responsible for how far Casemiro has regressed this year. In my opinion the most important position on the pitch we are left with a fat mercenary and our other option is Mctominay.
I understand the longing for fans for instant gratification, especially when you see how awful we are. But we all know the club has been an absolute mess run by business men over football men. INEOS have hopefully identified this and appear to be trying to rectify it.
There are times this year where I've wanted to throw my remote against the wall, we've all been there, but there have been glimpses of decent, intelligent football. I still don't think we are too far away. I still want to see the third year out once intelligent squad building has been implemented. I do understand fan disenchantment it has not been good enough, but do we need to repeat the cycle of sacking without forward thinking. If there was some glaring obvious appointment we could make I'd probably be more inclined to sacking, but if the options are Potter and Southgate I'd rather see ETH given another year.
In no way am I a deluded supporter of ETH, that's impossible he has truly failed us this year. However he has had a lot to contend with and so much he still has to fix. It's going to take more time and it's not going to be pretty. I don't need to go into how many injuries we have had in defence this year, we all know. But is ETH responsible for how far Casemiro has regressed this year. In my opinion the most important position on the pitch we are left with a fat mercenary and our other option is Mctominay.
I understand the longing for fans for instant gratification, especially when you see how awful we are. But we all know the club has been an absolute mess run by business men over football men. INEOS have hopefully identified this and appear to be trying to rectify it.
There are times this year where I've wanted to throw my remote against the wall, we've all been there, but there have been glimpses of decent, intelligent football. I still don't think we are too far away. I still want to see the third year out once intelligent squad building has been implemented. I do understand fan disenchantment it has not been good enough, but do we need to repeat the cycle of sacking without forward thinking. If there was some glaring obvious appointment we could make I'd probably be more inclined to sacking, but if the options are Potter and Southgate I'd rather see ETH given another year.
Its funny how we always blame the players. It was often the case under Ole, Mou, LVG and same now with ETH. In most cases these managers were given hundreds of millions to spend and bought/ sold lots of players on their watch. ETH has been given unprecedented control over transfers, and has spent a huge sum. Two of his signings now regularly sit on the bench, whilst Casimero looks woeful on the pitch. Who is 'sticking to their principles' as all I see on the pitch is a mess. No top teams rely on transitions, they all look to control the ball and shape of the match to varying degrees. The alternative is just chaos, which is what we are. The premier league is too physical for this style ever to work, so if your proposing we keep going with that I'm afraid your deluded.
His main job is to get this group of players to play better than the sum of its parts. It's as simple as that and he's failing spectacularly at it. There is zero indication the "it will get bad before it gets better" mantra has any basis in reality. How can we say he still has a lot to fix when there's hardly any evidence of him fixing anything? 400 million and 2 years later we're worse than when he arrived.
I'm still on the fence as to whether or not ETH should be here for next season, but there is a pattern here with this squad that shows any time a progressive/aggressive style of football is attempted it ends pretty badly.
Ole's last season there was an attempt to expand our game and we got battered most weeks.
Ralf asked them to press and it lasted 30 mins before we collectively gave up.
And now ETH tries to alter our game to a more aggressive one and we are inept.
ETH should be more pragmatic about this and adapt, but I wonder if the technical and physical profile of our players limits us. I get the feeling the next manager will have similar teething problems unless the squad profile improves.
Ole's last season there was an attempt to expand our game and we got battered most weeks.
Ralf asked them to press and it lasted 30 mins before we collectively gave up.
And now ETH tries to alter our game to a more aggressive one and we are inept.
ETH should be more pragmatic about this and adapt, but I wonder if the technical and physical profile of our players limits us. I get the feeling the next manager will have similar teething problems unless the squad profile improves.
I said the other day, he seems immune to it. Reputable media haven’t hounded him at all like they did with all the past managers
Not saying it’s a bad thing, just an observation
No excuse. They've been dragging their feet, we haven't even won any trophies under their ownership yet.
I think there is merit to the "it'll get worse before it gets better" thing.
We've been getting top four every other year and have basically been papering over the ever-growing number of cracks in doing so.
We need to gut the squad and get rid of pretty much all of the players that can "do a job" and start building an actual team.
However, the manager is part of this process and I've seen very little to suggest that Ten Hag is the man to get us through it.
I think there's a reasonable chance we finish outside of the top 6 next season, even with a new manager bringing better performances.
Using this season as a sample size then extrapolating that out. It looks like it would take Ten Hag the best part of 5 years to get us playing anything like an effective playing style with some sort of structure, never mind a successful style.
It was a poor decision to allow him to go on loan while also sending Reguilon back to Spurs. One or the other should have been in the squad from January onwards as back up for Shaw.
I judge an elite manager by his ability to recognise a teams weaknesses and make instant changes to adjust in game and in season. Last year ETH showed these signs, we lost our first two games after he was given a baptism of fire and he went on a run with the players because he said the team lacked fitness, the team
Instantly improved and respected him.
He then started to show elite tactical skills by making the right substitutions to change or see out games. Even when he brought in Sabitzer and Weghorst on loan, fans initially not impressed were won over. Two domestic finals, one trophy and 3rd place in the PL with 75 points, 1 point more than when Ole came second.
That’s was last year, then it’s almost like a clone took over and did the complete opposite, that’s why we need to get rid of him, the next coach must be told that the club expects year on year improvement with set targets and the bare minimum, even in year one is CL qualification otherwise the sack, that’s how big clubs operate!
If the coach was at Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern and they did not win their domestic league , they would be instantly sacked, United should be no different!
ETH should have been sacked In December for coming bottom of a CL group, he’s had his second chance and enough games in the PL since then to make amends, so he has to be sacked because this clown will finish 7th, 8th or 9th and that’s why we should still do it this week after the Coventry game win or lose, Give Ruud the job on the interim, he’s free and won a cup final in Holland plus at least he’ll set up the team to score more goals in the last 6 or 7 games of the season.
Instantly improved and respected him.
He then started to show elite tactical skills by making the right substitutions to change or see out games. Even when he brought in Sabitzer and Weghorst on loan, fans initially not impressed were won over. Two domestic finals, one trophy and 3rd place in the PL with 75 points, 1 point more than when Ole came second.
That’s was last year, then it’s almost like a clone took over and did the complete opposite, that’s why we need to get rid of him, the next coach must be told that the club expects year on year improvement with set targets and the bare minimum, even in year one is CL qualification otherwise the sack, that’s how big clubs operate!
If the coach was at Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern and they did not win their domestic league , they would be instantly sacked, United should be no different!
ETH should have been sacked In December for coming bottom of a CL group, he’s had his second chance and enough games in the PL since then to make amends, so he has to be sacked because this clown will finish 7th, 8th or 9th and that’s why we should still do it this week after the Coventry game win or lose, Give Ruud the job on the interim, he’s free and won a cup final in Holland plus at least he’ll set up the team to score more goals in the last 6 or 7 games of the season.
Come on mate, we finished 3rd last year. We have more than enough talent to be finishing ahead of Villa and Spurs. Even with how shite we've been this season we weren't that far off them until our recent collapse over the last 4-6 weeks. A better manager, or at least one that isn't hell bent on playing a suicidal brand of nothingball would have this squad in 4th/5th right now.
I dont think we are that good. I don't rate Rashford, Maguire, Wan Bissaka. Casemiro is over the hill and garnacho shouldn't be playing as much as he has.
Tottenham and Villa both have a better XI I feel.
I'm not proposing we continue with him, pretty much what I said was if you stick to your principles you need to allow it to weed out the players that don't suit. Everyone has a hard on for blaming the manager, tactics, signings and he deserves his share of the blame, of course he does. He'll probably lose his job and he can have few complaints.
But if you actually seriously look at the quality and age profile of the players in the squad, it's a sorry state of affairs and sacking ETH is probably the easiest first step to take in regards overhauling the football side of the team.
Go beyond him and start looking at the players, look at where they are going to be in 2-3 and look at what they are conceivably going to be able to offer. It's not reading good at all.
There's a serious job to be done and it's going to require patience from the fans, we just have to accept that there is a possibility it will get worse before it gets better.
There's enough sticks to beat Ten Hag with without pretending Fernandez/Carreras is tearing it up for Benfica.
He's made one start for them in the league all season. He played 45 mins in a game where they got twatted 5-0 by Porto, and he's barely seen grass otherwise.
The football under Ole is without doubt better than anything we’ve seen this season and I agree with you it wasn’t even good enough back then.
There is no playing style at United our ‘tactic/system’ has been studied in depth multiple times and experts are at a loss of what the game plan actually is. It’s generally been likened to something you would see at school level.
Front players ‘pressing’ whilst the defence sits deep leaving a space of about 30 yards wide open in the middle of the park is this seasons style of play
3rd last year doesn't mean anything.
How does 3rd last year translate to competing for trophies next year or the year after or 3 or 4 years down the line?
Like it not, the vast majority of the players just aren't good enough, they weren't good enough last year and won't be good enough next year, or the year after.
It has been so bad that everything has felt like a disaster for years now, but we have actually finished in the top 3, 3 times in the last 4 years. I'm not saying the players are great, but their talent is ahead of these other teams like Spurs and Villa. It's revisionism to say Spurs are better, when they were a disaster pre-Ange and had just sold their best player without replacing him.