If sancho had put in last nights performance in a red shirt, he'd have been given 5, maybe 5.5 out of 10. The second he lost the ball, and he did it a dozen times, there would have been calls to sub him off.
Erik ten Hag vs Sancho
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Yeah I'm starting to doubt Ten Hag's words on this too. For all his talk about "standards", we've seen his "standards" this PL season, and if a player isn't up to those "standards" in training one can see how a misunderstanding between him and a player could happen.
Refusing to do 5 push ups isn’t too bad? On the face of it no, but christ, it’s such a minimal token punishment to add stakes to an exercise. Refusing to do that isn’t a good look, and combined with other discipline issues and him calling out EtH on social media it is really clear that Sancho is no-where near the professional standard.
That and everybody with eyeballs can see he’s trying harder for BVB than he did for us while he was here. I have a hard time thinking you’d absolve Sancho of these things and give him the benefit of the doubt if it were at your club.
Other players aren’t behaving like this, despite the shitty context. Rashford took his medicine, as did Garnacho. Sancho’s being a spoiled brat, and I’ll be glad when he’s off our books.
Well we don't actually know the full ins and outs of a situation with Sancho and Ten Hag. There may well have been something that occured which meant that Ten Hag wasn't deserving of an apology. Everyone has different levels of respect and happiness. I just see a player in Sancho that is far happier and comfortable in the environment of Dortmund than at United. I don't think Sancho is blameless but I don't think he's all to blame either.
Indeed, Rashford has but he's not had just one incident either, he's had multiple. Unlike Sancho, they both also have a far greater affinity to the club aside from Ten Hag due to coming through the youth system.
And look at what a player he's become now!
100%
We could do with him being sent a message too for how he’s been on the pitch, but lack of effort in games wasn’t the reason given for Sancho being canned.
EtH might have handled things better, but it’s perfectly fair to cite training performances when Sancho refuses to do opposition tactics to drill the team. EtH even said he’d be happy to show him footage to explain why he wasn’t satisfied.
Anyway, so long as the manager is the manager, and he’s not giving fair reasons, then there’s no excuse for undermining him publicly. It’s a grave sin, there has to be some modicum of respect for the man who’s in charge of the whole operation.
Sancho hasn’t put in the effort on the pitch over the course of three managers’ reigns. I’d say it’s fair to say he doesn’t deserve to wear the shirt.
Yes. Goes to show his character.
I agree, however that is basically true of the entire squad this season (bar 2-3 youngsters from time to time), and that is down to the coach at the end of the day. Those who put in the work and followed Ten Hag's orders are where they are now. So perhaps someone disagreeing with those orders had a point in the first place.
I don't know, if a manager criticises me publicly then I'd probably feel like I have a right to respond to that if I felt that they were telling porkies or being unfair about it.
I still also feel like this quantifying of effort is difficult to judge and again can come down to happiness and being comfortable at a club and with a manager. I wouldn't say he didn't put in effort with Ole.
Yeah, I’ve wanted Ten Hag out for a while, but that doesn’t make it Sancho’s place to disagree. It’s not just disrespecting Ten Hag, but also the club and the fans.
And Sancho wasn’t talking about any of that, he was just making weak protests claiming he’s putting in the work, which is demonstrably false. Can’t even be arsed to do 5 push-ups.
Aside from the game last week, I've not seen anything much from Sancho in Dortmund to suggest he should be given another chance at United. We know he will get next season back here as he's got an expensive contract which no club will match or pay for. The next manager needs to get something from this lad as we know it's there in the past.
He was asked about Sancho, he didn’t come out and blast him. If that’s all it takes for him to be bent out of shape then he seriously isn’t made for a top club. And calling the manager a liar is well out of bounds.
As for during Ole’s reign: I would. He was being a luxury player the whole time. Watching him last night, I’ve never seen him like that for us. All he did was run into cul-de-sacs, lose the ball, and then walk and wait for someone else to retrieve it.
Clearly we’re not about to agree though, so.
Or perhaps it was a reaction to a comment after a build up behind the scenes? As always, we don't know the full picture so we are just piecing together situations. What we do know though is that Ten Hag has had problems with multiple players, you are performing utterly terrible under him and Sancho has felt much better at Dortmund prior to joining United and after. The more that comes out of the situation I just see 1. A player that felt completely uncomfortable at United due to the manager and negative environment of the club and 2. A manager with poor people skills.
But yeah, we will have to agree to disagree.
It's mind boggling to me how folks on here are so desperate to make this the manager's fault, in order to have another stick to beat him with, that they're willing to overlook gross insubordination from a player who had failed to deliver for us for years, under multiple managers.
Yeah, it might take a special masochistic breed to thrive at United right now. Or indeed, for the last decadeOr perhaps it was a reaction to a comment after a build up behind the scenes? As always, we don't know the full picture so we are just piecing together situations. What we do know though is that Ten Hag has had problems with multiple players, you are performing utterly terrible under him and Sancho has felt much better at Dortmund prior to joining United and after. The more that comes out of the situation I just see 1. A player that felt completely uncomfortable at United due to the manager and negative environment of the club and 2. A manager with poor people skills.
But yeah, we will have to agree to disagree.
Indeed. Last week he was absolutely fantastic. World class. Best player on the pitch. Last night he was fine. OK. Nothing special. Player rating? Nearly 8/10 on BBC. Ridiculous. As others have said as well, you can't turn up with you fancy it. When a player is playing for your team you watch them week in, week out and know their general level. Watching them perform in a massive game a few times a season is irrelevant vs their weekly performance. The fact there is such a gulf in application is not a good thing and doesn't speak to bad management, it speaks to a very lazy player.
To me, we should give him a chance under new manager. He is a player that is good enough to play in CL final. In fact, he gave a MOTM performance in a CL Semi.
It's not like we have a team full of superstars performing at very high level. How many of our players are good and consistent in the last few years under Ole, Rangnick and ETH? I can only think of maybe Bruno?
It's not like we have a team full of superstars performing at very high level. How many of our players are good and consistent in the last few years under Ole, Rangnick and ETH? I can only think of maybe Bruno?
Caf is a terrible place when we are playing bad. People come up with ridiculous arguments just to make a point. I agree with you.
I'm sick of this manager but Jadon Sancho is never a United player. He should stay at Dortmund or at least in Germany where he can get away with being average.
Not to mention sleep deprivation caused by a video game addiction that speaks to a lack of self-control.
Sancho will never change, and as talented as he is, he has some troubling traits that cannot be easily remedied. We should cut our losses in the same way we did with Pogba and Morrison.
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You are only looking at the headline transfer fee, that's only part of it, they could probably afford that, what they can't afford is the salary that goes with it
Well they better get the taste of Jadon Sancho out of their mouth then because unless they're going to stop acting like a smallest club in Europe they need to spend some of the cash they've been stockpiling for the last 10 years.
ETH will be gone in the summer and ultimately it will be the new managers choice if he fancies Sancho or not.
I think it's probably worth giving him a shot (Unless we get a good offer and can use the cash towards a mega rebuild).
I think it's probably worth giving him a shot (Unless we get a good offer and can use the cash towards a mega rebuild).
Irrelevant of how well Sancho is doing at Dortmund (Not as good as everyone is suggesting IMO), he stepped out of line at United and ETH did the right thing in demanding an apology.
If he was let right back into the team, we would be sat here complaining of the lack of discipline at the club. (Something we've had an issue with in the last few years).
Losing one player isn't great but having a whole squad feel like its OK to disrespect the manager with no consequences is a disaster.
If he was let right back into the team, we would be sat here complaining of the lack of discipline at the club. (Something we've had an issue with in the last few years).
Losing one player isn't great but having a whole squad feel like its OK to disrespect the manager with no consequences is a disaster.
The audacity to raise your performances in the biggest games! None of that at Old Trafford thank you very much.
Respect is easily lost when you start isolating players, disciplining players in uneven ways, continue playing your crappy signings and setup the team each week to be wide open.
I would normally agree, but the discipline has not worked. You have Rashford missing training because he is out drinking and the team, according to Ten Hag, not enacting his instructions.
The problem started here because Ten Hag went public with the criticism.
As it was said in the Athletic..
"There are also some United staff members who believe Sancho could have been handled differently. He responds to warmer management and they feel private cajoling and encouragement may have kept him onside. "
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I don’t want ETH at the club next season BUT it needs to remembered Sancho was given 3 months off to get his head right whilst paid his £350K a week and given countless chances to cement his place in the team but didn’t apply himself in training, apply himself in games and didn’t accept criticism and ETH is the 3rd or 4th manager to say these things about Sancho.
I really hope Dortmund win the CL this season and Sancho has a man of the match performance then in an ideal world he’s upped his value to nearer what we paid and someone buys him then we get rid of ETH at the same time as neither should be at the club next season.
I really hope Dortmund win the CL this season and Sancho has a man of the match performance then in an ideal world he’s upped his value to nearer what we paid and someone buys him then we get rid of ETH at the same time as neither should be at the club next season.
exactly. People are just not able to separate the two things, and act like we HAVE to choose between having EtH back next season or having Sancho back next season. In reality neither should be back.
That is very fair.
None of us really knows what happened behind the scenes, but what we do know is that Terzic has gotten the best out of him in only a few months where Ten Hag couldn't in almost two years.
I never heard anything about Sancho "not accepting criticism" at Dortmund either, he always had a problem with timekeeping and good man managers figure out a way to work with them, instead of airing it out publicly.
This should be the final word on it. Andy would not write this without having spoken to several people who would know.
Can't Sancho just stay in Dortmund? Some people just thrive in a different enviornment. He looks more like a futsal player than a football player to me. I can't remember ever feeling excited about signing this guy.
In Dortmund he plays with more freedom and gets a lot of praise. I think it would be wise for him emotionally to just stay there.
In Dortmund he plays with more freedom and gets a lot of praise. I think it would be wise for him emotionally to just stay there.
It was obvious this was the case when he gave him almost 3 months off to get his head space right with personalised training.
Spot on. Some are almost incapable of separating these two things. I guess it’s just normal, and how these topics usually go - depending on who’s performing better at any stage, that individual would generally have the momentum swing for or against them.
I agree and substantially it has depleted the quality of the squad to the extent it's only really Antony and Garnacho to rely on this season.
Just like Mr Leprechaun but no one talks about him the same way.
It's not happening, the whole cost of buying him isnt just his transfer fee, it's his wages as well and no one in Europe is going to pay 70 million or whatever he cost and 300 grand a week