12 months since Mourinho was sacked and we've arguably gone backwards

[Nucks]

Aren’t we literally one point less than we were last season? By that logic if we win next week we’ll have more points and a similar amount of goals so are suddenly going to be going forwards then? How ridiculous does the sound?

It’s not being thick. It’s looking at more than just stats that can literally change in days. Nobody is saying that this has been a good start to the season, it’s been shit, just as the one 12 months ago was, but there is 100% more to like about this current side and the way it tries to play football.

It's going backwards, because the team quit on Mourinho. The team hasn't quit on OGS, and he is doing about as well as Mourinho was, when the players stopped playing for him.

 

[Snow]

Sanchez is still gone regardless, he’s not the elephant in the room anymore and therefore not a distraction.

Darmian is gone, he was deadwood.

Lukaku most certainly was deadwood, not the long term answer and his last season he scored less than Rashford already has this season if I’m not mistaken.
He’s far from an elite striker.

You can’t blame Ole for Herrera, the board fecked up by not renewing however, importantly, he wanted us to match ridiculous wages he’s on now at PSG.
Too old and not good enough for that amount of money. That’s out of Ole’s hands.

All of the above had to happen, thus Ole is working with a much weaker squad in terms of depth.

Where I’m making a point in particular is midfield where we are lacking the top quality to break through low blocks.

Our top scorer was deadwood? No. Deadwood is Darmian who barely played last season. Sanchez isn't most certainly gone, someone needs to buy him. Until then he's got a contract until 2023.

We extended contracts with Jones, Young, Mata. I'd say we've rather done more of containing deadwood than getting rid of it.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Why are you still talking about Sheff and Villa!?

This is a very young side and is feckin threadbare compared to past United sides.
Consistency was always going to be the issue, people need to look for the positive signs during this transitional period.

What were you expecting this season? Top four and samba football?
Perhaps people expected us to steamroll every team outside the top four and lose every game to the top four sides?

It’s called consistency which is very hard to achieve with such a squad as we have currently, see Chelsea.

Variable change.

A much better campaign than what we're showing right now.
We have a team full of internationals, a team worth many millions of pounds, a team earning probably the most in the league.

What do we have?
We're currently sitting 6th in the league. *If* Palace win their game in hand, they'll be on the same points as us. We're on the same points as a newly promoted side who have spent very little in the summer. We're 3 points above Newcastle.

We're 14 points behind second place, all while buying their best defender for 80million.
14 points off top, yet 10 points off being in the bottom 3.

If you think that's acceptable, then great, I'm glad you're thrilled with this side. Me on the other hand think it's a joke that people accept this.
We've got internationals in every position on the pitch, young or not, this team is under performing.

How can we be so effective against the teams that open up, but struggle against the rest...the majority of the league that is.

We're actually just lucky that the teams in and around us are dropping points also or it would look a lot worse.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Almost exactly one year ago, Ole was appointed caretaker manager following the sacking of Jose Mourinho. The toxic one was relieved of his duties having led Manchester United to their 5th defeat of the Premier League season with a loss to Liverpool at Anfield. On December 18th 2018, United sat in 6th with 7 wins, 29 goals and 26 points; fast forward a year, two transfer windows, almost £150 million worth of player additions and an improved team culture - we've amassed 1 fewer point, 1 fewer win and 3 fewer goals. Most importantly, we look just as clueless as we did under Mourinho in his final season. Whether you want to blame Ole or not, it's inconceivable that 12 months since the sacking of our most despised manager, we've seen 0 progress or improvement in most of the aspects related to this behemoth of a football club. How does Manchester United, with all its apparent resources, find itself in this position?

There's a huge difference though and you would be a fool not to notice. Under Mourinho our team had peaked and was never going to get any better. We had hit our ceiling. Under Ole, while our place in the table isn't any different yet, we are only going to get better. Sure, there's going to be some knee jerk reactions to todays draw with Everton (as the doom and gloom crowd hid for a few days after a couple of good results), however, if we keep playing our opponents while having close to 70% possession and outshooting them 24(8)-8(3) like we did today, the results will come. This is a young team and there are going to be some bumps along the way, but the only way is up for this young group of players and with just a couple of additions I fully expect us to be back competing for titles again very soon...

 

[SaintMuppet]

I want it all, I want it all, I want it all
And I want it now........

 

[Sultan]

With respect to the thread starter, we have not gone backwards. The biggest difference and improvement Ole has made to the team are to be liked and watchable, again. The toxicity around the club has gone. I look forward to games and there is hope. I see the foundation being built. I don't know the future but a few tweaks and I can see us competing at the very top soon.

My changes would be to introduce attacking full-backs in so-called easier games. Our full-backs are just not good enough in the attacking third. Strikers need help. We also need a different type of striker to replace Lukaku and a player who can conjure up some magical moment in tight spaces and we should be good to go again.

 

[Garethw]

I want it all, I want it all, I want it all
And I want it now........

And so we should. Mourinho was sacked a year ago and we are regressing.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I want it all, I want it all, I want it all
And I want it now........

Give me the Pool trebble this season! We need to accept that the roles have reversed.

 

[Still ill]

And so we should. Mourinho was sacked a year ago and we are regressing.

Tell me what you would consider acceptable 12 months on from Jose. Would it be only definable in league positions? Top 4? Top 3? Would you define it in terms of squad overhaul? How many of the deadwood have departed? In terms of new talent in the door? How competitive we are against the top teams? Against the rest? How many goals we score? How enjoyable it is to watch us? How many of our youngsters are making a meaningful contribution?

Most of those are acceptable parameters and in most of them, we've progressed.

Key for me is that I'm looking forward to seeing us play again. To assert that we're in the same place as after that dismal, defensive 3-1 capitulation at Anfield that marked Jose's last game is nonsense.

 

[Tom Cato]

We were awful last year. And we're worse than that in terms of points and goals scored. At this rate we'll score 58 goals at the end of the season. That's what you call entertaining attacking football? We can't keep a clean sheet either after spending another £130m which is appalling.



You're doing the football support wrong mate. You should bury your head into the sand and think everything is OK.



Ripped apart? You make it sound like we dominated & battered them, we didn't. We defended deep and only hit them on the counter which they're vulnerable to. By that logic, Norwich & Wolves also "ripped them apart".

We should and could have gone to half time leading 4 or 5-0. For the first 35-40 minutes it was a one way highway through the City defense. In the last end of the first and the second we sat back and comfortably defended against a team thats wildly talented.

But you know what, the problem with one-two line comments is that they are always low hanging fruit, so that's my mistake.

 

[always_hoping]

We're actually just lucky that the teams in and around us are dropping points also or it would look a lot worse.

Nothing to do with luck if anything United dropped more silly points than any team. The teams in and around us have and will continue to drop points because like United they are mediocre.

 

[Red Royal]

Tell me what you would consider acceptable 12 months on from Jose. Would it be only definable in league positions? Top 4? Top 3? Would you define it in terms of squad overhaul? How many of the deadwood have departed? In terms of new talent in the door? How competitive we are against the top teams? Against the rest? How many goals we score? How enjoyable it is to watch us? How many of our youngsters are making a meaningful contribution?

Most of those are acceptable parameters and in most of them, we've progressed.

Key for me is that I'm looking forward to seeing us play again. To assert that we're in the same place as after that dismal, defensive 3-1 capitulation at Anfield that marked Jose's last game is nonsense.

This... I look forward to our games again.

 

[dove]

Not the dove of peace, then. There's an article in the Sunday Times listing the players involved in Jose's last few games. Read it and ask yourself do you want to be back there. I'm going to go ahead and assume you're happier to see Greenwood coming on today than Sanchez? There was a big job of work ahead of Ole. It's underway. Have a bit of perspective.

If that's the only reason Ole is here then we have at least 200 ex players who could do the same job as him, and probably better.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It's going backwards, because the team quit on Mourinho. The team hasn't quit on OGS, and he is doing about as well as Mourinho was, when the players stopped playing for him.

BANG ON THE MONEY.

 

[Still ill]

If that's the only reason Ole is here then we have at least 200 ex players who could do the same job as him, and probably better.

Eh? I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength. I'll bow out graciously here. No doubt you're correct.

 

[lRed]

There's a huge difference though and you would be a fool not to notice. Under Mourinho our team had peaked and was never going to get any better. We had hit our ceiling. Under Ole, while our place in the table isn't any different yet, we are only going to get better. Sure, there's going to be some knee jerk reactions to todays draw with Everton (as the doom and gloom crowd hid for a few days after a couple of good results), however, if we keep playing our opponents while having close to 70% possession and outshooting them 24(8)-8(3) like we did today, the results will come. This is a young team and there are going to be some bumps along the way, but the only way is up for this young group of players and with just a couple of additions I fully expect us to be back competing for titles again very soon...

This.

 

[Josep Dowling]

The simple truth is the squad isn’t good enough yet and we lack numbers. We are doing okay but not brilliant, not a disaster either. Had we lost against Spurs and City I would definitely want him gone, but we didn’t which suggests there is a sign of something there.

Pogba has been a massive loss for us. When Herrera and Fellaini were sold, Matic and Mata quality had plummeted, then not signing a midfielder we were short in midfield when Pogba was fit. He then gets a long term injury and our only creative midfielder has been missing for over two months. I don’t get why the club allowed that situation to happen but it did. He is the player that can unlock a tight defence as we saw today against Everton.

Given the quality of the squad I would say a top 4 battle was the only realistic target this season. We are a bit off that currently.

 

[Giggsyking]

This kind of threads pop out every time we lose or draw.

You see them often because we rarely win.

Tell me what you would consider acceptable 12 months on from Jose. Would it be only definable in league positions? Top 4? Top 3? Would you define it in terms of squad overhaul? How many of the deadwood have departed? In terms of new talent in the door? How competitive we are against the top teams? Against the rest? How many goals we score? How enjoyable it is to watch us? How many of our youngsters are making a meaningful contribution?

Most of those are acceptable parameters and in most of them, we've progressed.

Key for me is that I'm looking forward to seeing us play again. To assert that we're in the same place as after that dismal, defensive 3-1 capitulation at Anfield that marked Jose's last game is nonsense.

Easy.. points from the top of the table, because the top of the table is the most consistent team at the moment. Last year when we sacked the poison one we were 19 points from the leaders Liverpool. Today we are 24 points. It tells you everything. Dont get me wrong, I celebrated the sack of the poison one like we won the league, but sad to tell you that Ole is doing worse than the worse season of the poison one.

 

[Ban]

You see them often because we rarely win.

Easy.. points from the top of the table, because the top of the table is the most consistent team at the moment. Last year when we sacked the poison one we were 19 points from the leaders Liverpool. Today we are 24 points. It tells you everything. Dont get me wrong, I celebrated the sack of the poison one like we won the league, but sad to tell you that Ole is doing worse than the worse season of the poison one.

Yeah and I see your posts too much.

 

[reddevil702]

We’ve absolutely gone backwards, at least under previous managers we use to have some standards and expectations. Ole lowered both to the point that some fans actually consider the last 12 months progress because we got rid of a couple players. We have a manager that lacks any kind of backbone is content with any performance. His lack of ambition is reflected in our players. Can’t wait until next season when a real manager takes over and we can actually start improving on this mess.

 

[Giggsyking]

Yeah and I see your posts too much.

I hold my breath every time I see your posts.

 

[Ban]

I hold my breath every time I see your posts.

Sure you do, I believe you.

 

[TMDaines]

The results have not quite come so far, but I feel far more positive about where we are than a year ago. Our football under Mourinho was fecking dreadful near the end and his behaviour was atrocious. Performances have been worthy of several more points this season, whereas last year we were lucky to be where we were as we were leaking shots everywhere at the back.

This time last year (according to Understat) our xG/xGA/xPts were 28.22/26.53/23.92. We’re better on all accounts this year, especially on the last two counts with 29.51/16.85/31.83. You cannot really control results. The process has improved and over time this should mean we see it in results, especially when this young side matures.

A couple of matches aside, our general pattern of play has been better, but we keep leaking cheap goals. Today was a classic example. With our decent, but not sensational attack, it’s going to be hard to have many more points than we currently do with only two clean sheets. I’m increasingly frustrated with De Gea, who commanding the pay pack he does needs to consistently deliver world class performances and he’s done it once only in the last four seasons really. There may be a decision to make with him down the line with Romero and Henderson waiting in the wings. I’m far more confident with Romero in goal right now.

Going forward, we need some depth. We’ve only really got Rashford, Martial, James and Greenwood across the front three and it is difficult for the manager to change the game from the bench currently. Gomes and Chong aren’t ready and no one else can play there well. Haaland and Sancho would be real exciting buys to give us real options across a full 90, and around injuries and form. I do think the manager needs these tools and I’d be excited to see what he could do with them. There’s also the small matter of us having been without our best player for most of the season too.

Thankfully we’re in a season where only three sides have shown any real consistency too, so there’s absolutely no need to panic in achieving our honest goals for this season of CL qualification and silverware. I don’t see who else I’d realistically want us to take us into the New Year.

 

[Bebestation]

Sacking Mourinho was a knee-jerk reaction. He led us through our best post-Fergie season, by a country mile. I didn't like him very much and don't appreciate his controversial personality, but I think we could have lived with that better than we can live with a manager whose fundamental competency is a matter of debate. The whole "building a foundation" thing is severely overrated--far too small a percentage of promising youth players turn out to be the real deal, and clubs almost never succeed that way. The stars can align (our class of 92, Barcelona's Messi generation), but by and large, success is achieved and maintained by signing a steady stream of quality players. Mourinho was a much better candidate in that regard than Ole will ever be.

Mourinho was the worst manager at United Post SAF.

Success & short term success is not everything - building things slowly & as long as a manager improved from what the manager left behind then United can keep improving.

Jose is pure trash & trades everything for short term success. The Lukaku, the sanchez, the game play - I just genuinely can't be bothered.

The best post SAF managers at United have been LVG & Ole - but note that does not mean the most successful one.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Mourinho was the worst manager at United Post SAF.

Success & short term success is not everything - building things slowly & as long as a manager improved from what the manager left behind then United can keep improving.

Jose is pure trash & trades everything for short term success. The Lukaku, the sanchez, the game play - I just genuinely can't be bothered.

The best post SAF managers at United have been LVG & Ole - but note that does not mean the most successful one.

What exactly is the argument for Ole being the best manager post SAF?

That he 'gets' the club and he 'understands' the club?

Because besides that, he has no argument.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't think we've gone backwards.

We've just kind of stood still mainly.

 

[ManRed]

We have taken a step back which is not necessarily bad. I like where we are now then where we were a year ago with a team full of over paid, non committed players, defensive minded team. We have a lot of good in the team and genuinely 3-4 signings away from having a consistent top 4 side.

 

[Bebestation]

What exactly is the argument for Ole being the best manager post SAF?

That he 'gets' the club and he 'understands' the club?

Because besides that, he has no argument.

Because even though I don't think tactically he is good enough that he is helping improve the players and the squad. I'd rather have managers who do that one after another and promote youngsters than go off for a whole do or die success winning/title winning season under Mourinho which leads us to utter nothing.

I've come to terms that United will have rebuild their squad & their club - managers like Jose can't do that at a club like United - atleast not for something that can last for a good 5-8 years.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Mourinho was the worst manager at United Post SAF.

Success & short term success is not everything - building things slowly & as long as a manager improved from what the manager left behind then United can keep improving.

Jose is pure trash & trades everything for short term success. The Lukaku, the sanchez, the game play - I just genuinely can't be bothered.

The best post SAF managers at United have been LVG & Ole - but note that does not mean the most successful one.

That’s just nonsense. Mourinho won a couple of trophies and finished 2nd. The worse manager by a country mile was David Moyes.

 

[mariachi-19]

We have taken a step back which is not necessarily bad. I like where we are now then where we were a year ago with a team full of over paid, non committed players, defensive minded team. We have a lot of good in the team and genuinely 3-4 signings away from having a consistent top 4 side.

The squad quality has taken a step back, but the squad development has taken a monumental leap forward.

People like the OP expect immediate success without having to accept that this squad of players was always going to have teething issues. Mourinho attempted to buy instant success. Didnt fecking work, so don't expect success when its a drawn out process.

 

[Giggsyking]

We’ve absolutely gone backwards, at least under previous managers we use to have some standards and expectations. Ole lowered both to the point that some fans actually consider the last 12 months progress because we got rid of a couple players. We have a manager that lacks any kind of backbone is content with any performance. His lack of ambition is reflected in our players. Can’t wait until next season when a real manager takes over and we can actually start improving on this mess.

Just take a look around and read some posters coming up with strange excuses. When you ask them what has improved, everything they come up with is subjective that can have many interpretations from different points of views, but they never give anything objective. You tell them this is the worst start in the club's premier league history, they tell you it's a process.

 

[Handré1990]

I want a better manager, but how have we arguably gone backwards? I guess you could argue it if you were living in a vacuum where context doesn’t matter. Are you in that place?

 

[Bebestation]

That’s just nonsense. Mourinho won a couple of trophies and finished 2nd. The worse manager by a country mile was David Moyes.

I forgot about David Moyea but I don't really make him count because he was just a mistake that should never have happened.

For me what we are seeing with Ole and the youngsters development is what was initially planned after LVG - going from 3 years LVG and then have potentially someone like Giggs takeover and help the youngsters develop in to an idea of football.

Going from LVG football to Jose football was just like switching from two hardcore religions & it was pure bad decisions with no flow. One was possession and trying to target younger players whilst the second was absolutely no style at all and any robust tall physical player Mourinho could find for millions of pounds.

 

[meamth]

After the game, went to sleep.

Open caf, this thread is on the front page.

Created after we drew a game, dropped points.

What next?

"Ole is an inept manager compared to Moyes.."

 

[GaryLifo]

First we needed a transfer window, then a break, then a pre season, then Martial, then Pogba, then a Jan window, now more quality. What comes next?

Yeah, it's almost as if shipping out 7 players in the summer and rebuilding a team is some kind of ongoing process requiring several stages to reach fruition over an extended time period.

If only Ole had your wisdom and intellect so he could get it done in half a season.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Rebuilds don’t generally consist of solely demolition.

There is no excuse for us to be ‘so bad’ in the hopes [not the guarantee] of one day becoming good again.

The Everton game was a carbon copy of countless games this season; this is a coaching issue [not solely] but when a manager sends his team out week after week & the same defensive implosions happen he must take some responsibility.

We play £110mil of CBs most weeks.

 

[theklr]

Just take a look around and read some posters coming up with strange excuses. When you ask them what has improved, everything they come up with is subjective that can have many interpretations from different points of views, but they never give anything objective. You tell them this is the worst start in the club's premier league history, they tell you it's a process.

Isn’t age objective? Isn’t xG/xGA/xP objective? Isn’t performance against top 6 objective? Aren’t our squad depth/bench quality objective? Aren’t our injuries objective? Aren’t missed penalties objective?

 

[Josep Dowling]

I forgot about David Moyea but I don't really make him count because he was just a mistake that should never have happened.

For me what we are seeing with Ole and the youngsters development is what was initially planned after LVG - going from 3 years LVG and then have potentially someone like Giggs takeover and help the youngsters develop in to an idea of football.

Going from LVG football to Jose football was just like switching from two hardcore religions & it was pure bad decisions with no flow. One was possession and trying to target younger players whilst the second was absolutely no style at all and any robust tall physical player Mourinho could find for millions of pounds.

I agree it was stupid to go from LVG to Mourinho. But in terms of his transfer I can’t imagine many people were disappointed with the players he bought in - Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Lukaku, Micky, Sanchez. They were a calibre of player that most fans wanted us to sign but for what ever reason it didn’t work for most.

I still believe if José had got his CB last summer he would still have a job here. But he’s very marmite with fans. Even when were doing well some fans weren’t happy, simply because of who he is.

 

[GaryLifo]

In the summer a decision was made to take some temporary backward steps in order to progress in the longer term. This came with an expectation that we'd have a thin squad plugged up with a few senior players like Young, Matic, Jones and Mata and room to give a few youngsters a go.

Anyone who thought we'd get consistency and long winning steaks in the first half of the season was being unrealistic.

Can we please stop appraising it after every single game and just see where we are at the end of the season?

 

[mariachi-19]

I agree it was stupid to go from LVG to Mourinho. But in terms of his transfer I can’t imagine many people were disappointed with the players he bought in - Ibrahimovic, Pogba, Lukaku, Micky, Sanchez. They were a calibre of player that most fans wanted us to sign but for what ever reason it didn’t work for most.

I still believe if José had got his CB last summer he would still have a job here. But he’s very marmite with fans. Even when were doing well some fans weren’t happy, simply because of who he is.

Jose is a has been and was never going to achieve anything more at United. He's a cancer to our club and we are far better because he has gone.