A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Halftrack]

His reputation has been inflated by half-truths and myths that his fans have accepted as fact.

Then there's also the issue of his stubbornness, falling out with players, disliking (and ignoring) players for seemingly no reason, making selections based on how well he likes a player rather than on merit, never had a plan B. He's a good coach, but he also has a few major flaws. If we were to get rid of Ole, then I don't think Poch is the right man to replace him.

What i like about Poch is he has good track record of improving full backs, shaw and awb could do with his help.

Does he? Walker was good before him, Davies was always fairly average, Trippier was just as good for Burnley as he was for Spurs, Yedlin went nowhere, Aurier is exactly the same player he was at PSG. Rose became a really good player under him for a while there, but then also fell apart under, and fell out with him.

 

[passing-wind]

Look I think Poch could do well at United, but how the feck can any United fan not see this for what it is. The board fail Ole then leak stories about looking to go for Poch.... I mean its blatantly scapegoating Ole for their own failings. They will do the same to Poch and then scapegoat him.

While you do have a point to what extent would have signing Sancho for example have changed the result against yourselves or us losing to Palace ? Players looking disinterested despite having a longer rest period during the Spurs fixture. Our poor start to the season is sole on the manager.

Woodward and co are responsible for the terrible infrastructure of the club not entirely for the results that are occurring on it. Shaw saying we need players backs up the sentiment that the manager is not motivating the team properly.

 

[Majima]

He was dug out by Kane! And he made the team a possession team. What do you mean they were young, most were mature players. Poch's game plan was press and keep position, first season was sideways and backwards. We had probbaly the best first team for 2 seasons in the league and every time we got to win something we imploded.

I was referring to your defence being young. Rose/Walker were young & shaky, Lloris was shaky at that time, Vertonghen & Fazio were decent, but not amazing. Of course they were sideways and backwards, you mostly had Bentaleb/Dier & Mason in CM with Soldado or Adebayor upfront. What did you expect? I would agree the last few years you had a very strong team and should have won something, but he definitely overachieved overall. Did you ever think you would get to a CL final when he first walked through the door?

 

[passing-wind]

Also why is everyone so inclined to believe this is a genuine leak, if it were so more of the media would be circulating this message. Sounds like rubbish to me the Glazers seem more insistent on waiting for the whole top four being mathematically impossible beforehand.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

While you do have a point to what extent would have signing Sancho for example have changed the result against yourselves or us losing to Palace ? Players looking disinterested despite having a longer rest period during the Spurs fixture. Our poor start to the season is sole on the manager.

Woodward and co are responsible for the terrible infrastructure of the club not entirely for the results that are occurring on it. Shaw saying we need players backs up the sentiment that the manager is not motivating the team properly.

But by that train of through, It was Moyes fault, LVGs Fault, Jose's fault and now Oles fault?

 

[USREDEVIL]

Ole must be sweating it now. Didn't get anything he needed in transfer window AFTER securing 3rd place and UCL. Teams around us looking far stronger, Arsenal, Tottenham, even Everton. Poch keeping his phone nearby and charged....

 

[The Cat]

But by that train of through, It was Moyes fault, LVGs Fault, Jose's fault and now Oles fault?

On it's own as a statement that is actually quite possible.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

I was referring to your defence being young. Rose/Walker were young & shaky, Lloris was shaky at that time, Vertonghen & Fazio were decent, but not amazing. Of course they were sideways and backwards, you mostly had Bentaleb/Dier & Mason in CM with Soldado or Adebayor upfront. What did you expect? I would agree the last few years you had a very strong team and should have won something, but he definitely overachieved overall. Did you ever think you would get to a CL final when he first walked through the door?

Now, did we really "deserve" to be in the CL final? Off the top of my head Poch got us to semi finals and finals of domestic cups and never done it all the way. Again I loved Poch but he had a squad to win something. Poch would do well at United, but he needs controlling and targeting backing. I can tell you for now Lingard and McTominy would be starters under Poch. But I also doubtthe future of some other first teamers.

 

[passing-wind]

But by that train of through, It was Moyes fault, LVGs Fault, Jose's fault and now Oles fault?

As bad as it sounds yes they all underachieved bar the exception of Mourinho who did well to an extent but wanted to replace the players who he ended up purchasing wasting the club's resources. The notion he wasn't backed is profoundly exaggerated, because we didn't (at the time) get a particular defender who now being brought seems an awful consideration to value.

 

[Majima]

Now, did we really "deserve" to be in the CL final? Off the top of my head Poch got us to semi finals and finals of domestic cups and never done it all the way. Again I loved Poch but he had a squad to win something.

It doesn't matter who deserves to be there, as long as you're there does it? A cup competition has insane luck to win them. The fact he got to many semi-finals and finals just shows the quality job he done for you. That season came off the back of zero funding because of the stadium don't forget. You was never expected to perform as well as you did that season.

When he went there, you had just had Villas-Boas as coach, who had significant resources given to, who had wasted those resources and left a bloated squad, with low morale and not much potential. Then Sherwood came to try and lift the spirits.

So there wasn't much resources left, but the squad still needed an overhaul. It was a very tough job for anyone.

The fact that Poch came, managed to overhaul the squad, brought through youth, instilling belief along with excellent coaching, find excellent players for cheap, on a shoestring budget and consistently finish ahead of your rivals with much higher resources was testament to him and the job he done for you. Having a player like Harry Kane in the youth ranks ready to break out obviously helps matters but he still had to turn the club around and coach them properly.

Don't forget you had a new stadium built and he had transfer funding cut during the time your team was at his best. That wouldn't have helped matters.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

As bad as it sounds yes they all underachieved bar the exception of Mourinho who did well to an extent but wanted to replace the players who he ended up purchasing wasting the club's resources. The notion he wasn't backed is profoundly exaggerated, because we didn't (at the time) get a particular defender who now being brought seems an awful consideration to value.

I think Maguire is much more suited to a Jose game that Ole, from what I am seeing from Jose, once he has a defence and midfield he can trust his teams scores goals.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

It doesn't matter who deserves to be there, as long as you're there does it? A cup competition has insane luck to win them. The fact he got to many semi-finals and finals just shows the quality job he done for you. That season came off the back of zero funding because of the stadium. You was never expected to perform as well as you did that season.

When he went there, you had just had Villas-Boas as coach, who had significant resources given to, who had wasted those resources and left a bloated squad, with low morale and not much potential. Then Sherwood came to try and lift the spirits.

So there wasn't much resources left, but the squad still needed an overhaul. It was a very tough job for anyone.

The fact that Poch came, managed to overhaul the squad, brought through youth, instilling belief along with excellent coaching, find excellent players for cheap, on a shoestring budget, is testament to him and the job he done for you. Having a player like Harry Kane in the youth ranks ready to break out obviously helps matters but he still had to turn the club around and coach them properly.

Don't forget you had a new stadium built and he had transfer funding cut during the time your team was at his best. That wouldn't have helped matters.

Yes but Poch accepted those restraints, and don't underestimated Kane a player who is goals on his lonesome. Again I loved Poch, more than you probably know but he has things he does and says that takes away from some things he does. TBH id love to see him back in the PL.

 

[Majima]

Poch would do well at United, but he needs controlling and targeting backing. I can tell you for now Lingard and McTominy would be starters under Poch. But I also doubtthe future of some other first teamers.

I doubt anyone would do well with us under our owners anymore. I think Pogba is an amazing player but i doubt he would be playing CM for Poch as an example. Fred-McTominay base i would expect. We're a soft team so i have no doubt he would sort that out straight away.

 

[Majima]

Yes but Poch accepted those restraints, and don't underestimated Kane a player who is goals on his lonesome. Again I loved Poch, more than you probably know but he has things he does and says that takes away from some things he does. TBH id love to see him back in the PL.

Yes he accepted it sure, but i would never have expected you to become the team you became under him, that's all i'm saying. Under AVB wasting your resources & then Sherwood, you were going nowhere like us, no offence. I don't doubt you have a lot more intimate knowledge with him, so i'm sure it wasn't all roses. Of course, Kane is a born match-winner.

 

[wolvored]

He's a much better manager than Solskjaer and is available.

Ed generally doesn't like to tax his brain too much and nearly always goes for the most obvious option.

Reckon Pochettino will be in charge by Christmas.

I agree. IIn fact I think if we lose 2 out of the next 3 games Newcastle, Chelsea and Arsenal, I can see Ole getting the bullet sooner.

 

[DarkXaero]

Look I think Poch could do well at United, but how the feck can any United fan not see this for what it is. The board fail Ole then leak stories about looking to go for Poch.... I mean its blatantly scapegoating Ole for their own failings. They will do the same to Poch and then scapegoat him.

Two things can be true at once. The board has failed, but Ole has failed too. They all deserve blame.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Seeing what Woodward has done to Ole, if Poch walks in, then I would seriously question his abilities, especially the one on the top floor.

 

[GlastonSpur]

I doubt anyone would do well with us under our owners anymore. I think Pogba is an amazing player but i doubt he would be playing CM for Poch as an example. Fred-McTominay base i would expect. We're a soft team so i have no doubt he would sort that out straight away.

As top priority Poch would ship Pogba out ASAP, for whatever United could get for him given the wages he's on. He has no time for prima donna nonsense and players who don't sweat blood for the team.

Matic would be gone too - too old and too past-it.

Then he'd look to sign a top-notch DM and an ultra-mobile CM to form a two behind Fernandes. CM would be his first priority, then a quality CB with pace to partner Maguire.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Then he'd look to sign a top-notch DM and an ultra-mobile CM to form a two behind Fernandes. CM would be his first priority, then a quality CB with pace to partner Maguire.

All he will get is "rumours"

 

[AshRK]

If Poch is smart he will not join this mess. I mean what makes people think managers will die for this job just because we had sir alex manage once.

 

[2cents]

What did the tweet say?

 

[Bojan11]

If Poch is smart he will not join this mess. I mean what makes people think managers will die for this job just because we had sir alex manage once.

What? Managers will want to join us, when Ole leaves.

Why join Madrid if you going to get sacked after losing a few games? Why did Koeman join Barca? They in a mess too.

 

[pascell]

What did the tweet say?

We've sounded Poch out for the gig, if results don't improve by the end of November.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If Poch is smart he will not join this mess

If he joins, he is not smart, but an idiot

 

[RedDevil@84]

What? Managers will want to join us, when Ole leaves.

Yes of course. Its a fat paycheck when finally getting sacked.

 

[Berbaclass]

Seeing what Woodward has done to Ole, if Poch walks in, then I would seriously question his abilities, especially the one on the top floor.

Poor Ole

He's not good enough mate. That's not entirely Woodward's fault. Possibly by hiring him in the first place maybe...

 

[GlastonSpur]

All he will get is "rumours"

He won't come in the first place without first being told what his net-spend budget will be for the first two windows - and without being in total control of who comes and who goes within that budget. And he won't work under a DoF.

He won't be in a mood to stand for any nonsense. He'll come on his terms or not at all.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Poor Ole

He's not good enough mate. That's not entirely Woodward's fault. Possibly by hiring him in the first place maybe...

I am not talking about Ole's managerial abilities. Talking about how Woodward asked Ole to start a project and then ditched him in transfer market. He did that to Jose.
He will do it to Poch or anyone who replaces him.

 

[Majima]

As top priority Poch would ship Pogba out ASAP, for whatever United could get for him given the wages he's on. He has no time for prima donna nonsense and players who don't sweat blood for the team.

Matic would be gone too - too old and too past-it.

Then he'd look to sign a top-notch DM and an ultra-mobile CM to form a two behind Fernandes. CM would be his first priority, then a quality CB with pace to partner Maguire.

Agreed, and you can see for good reason. For all of Pogba's abilities, he lets 'lesser' players dominate him too much. The only problem would be i doubt the board would sanction him leaving for a 'reasonable' amount.

He would only need a DM, we already have Fred who runs/presses all day long. 2 CB's would be a priority eventually i think. I don't think Maguire is anywhere near as good defensively to cover for his snail like pace.

 

[Majima]

I am not talking about Ole's managerial abilities. Talking about how Woodward asked Ole to start a project and then ditched him in transfer market. He did that to Jose.
He will do it to Poch or anyone who replaces him.

Don't forget LVG too. They knew he planned to retire after Utd. Woodward constantly told him his job was safe for the final year to his face, whilst plotting for 6 months to get Mourinho behind his back. He said it was the biggest surprise of his life when Woodward sacked him. He tried to tell us back then we're a solely commercial club, Mourinho too.

Anyone who comes into the club right now has an impossible task. Unless they're absolutely desperate, they would be mad to consider us.

 

[Halftrack]

Poor Ole

He's not good enough mate. That's not entirely Woodward's fault. Possibly by hiring him in the first place maybe...

Whether or not he's good enough doesn't really change the fact that he's been badly let down, does it? Woodward hired him, allowed him to start a rebuild, then bailed on him when it was time to build upon the foundations that were laid last season. Exactly like he did with Mourinho, and exactly like he'll do with the next manager. So yeah, any smart manager will probably think twice about coming here.

On the other hand, we're so badly run that failing here might not do much damage to a manager's reputation going forward.

 

[Berbaclass]

Whether or not he's good enough doesn't really change the fact that he's been badly let down, does it? Woodward hired him, allowed him to start a rebuild, then bailed on him when it was time to build upon the foundations that were laid last season. Exactly like he did with Mourinho, and exactly like he'll do with the next manager. So yeah, any smart manager will probably think twice about coming here.

On the other hand, we're so badly run that failing here might not do much damage to a manager's reputation going forward.

Let's be honest though, you watch our games presumably. Sancho wouldn't magically make us a good team overnight. The fact that we're shit is more to do with the fact that Ole is seemingly out of his depth and fairly clueless tactically. That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Majima]

Let's be honest though, you watch our games presumably. Sancho wouldn't magically make us a good team overnight. The fact that we're shit is more to do with the fact that Ole is seemingly out of his depth and fairly clueless tactically. That's how I see it anyway.

I actually wasn't bothered about Sancho coming this summer as our team is fundamentally flawed, adding one player wouldn't change that. If we go through it, we mostly stumble our way through matches currently winning by brute individual quality.

I think it's both. Our players don't really suit each other's strengths/weaknesses, and poor coaching unable to nit the team together properly.

Look at the way Lindelof-Maguire don't complement each other, neither Shaw-AWB, nor Pogba in a midfield 2 in our setup.

It's on Ole that we have this team setup to begin with. Are toothless building up, and are very soft and easily got at when the other team has the ball too.

Regardless of that, I do think Ole is hard done by for sure by Woodward though. He's hung him out to dry this window.

 

[Berbaclass]

I actually wasn't bothered about Sancho coming this summer as our team is fundamentally flawed, adding one player wouldn't change that. If we go through it, we mostly stumble our way through matches currently winning by brute individual quality.

I think it's both. Our players don't really suit each other's strengths/weaknesses, and poor coaching unable to nit the team together properly.

Absolutely it's both. We just need to find the right fit.

 

[ti vu]

He won't come in the first place without first being told what his net-spend budget will be for the first two windows - and without being in total control of who comes and who goes within that budget. And he won't work under a DoF.

He won't be in a mood to stand for any nonsense. He'll come on his terms or not at all.

Woodward can certainly promise all that, but the execution would make any manager to drop to their knee and beg to have a DOF to work with. It's not we don't spend, nor try to make contact with manager's target. Overpaying for one target and left hanging for the others is common issue though.

 

[Halftrack]

Let's be honest though, you watch our games presumably. Sancho wouldn't magically make us a good team overnight. The fact that we're shit is more to do with the fact that Ole is seemingly out of his depth and fairly clueless tactically. That's how I see it anyway.

The issue here is Woodward continuing in the pattern of screwing over managers. The way LvG was ousted was widely regarded as disrespectful, something he followed up by failing to back the following two managers.
And again: Regardless of ability, Ole has every reason to feel hard done by.

 

[Majima]

The issue here is Woodward continuing in the pattern of screwing over managers. The way LvG was ousted was widely regarded as disrespectful, something he followed up by failing to back the following two managers.
And again: Regardless of ability, Ole has every reason to feel hard done by.

I was saying to a poster above about the way LVG was treated. Regardless of results, It's disgusting to see three consecutive managers have their ambitions disrespected and then swiftly discarded as we've seen. You have to think any manager worth their salt would steer well clear of working under them.

 

[MrBest]

I have wanted Poch for a long time but he will fail with the structure we have at this club. There is not a single manager out there, that can do a good job in this environment. Ole has been screwed over as was Jose, LVG and Moyes. I cannot understand that after 7 years of nonesense, 4 managers, 900m spent, Woodward does not have the intelligence to realise that he or his team are to blame. People here need to accept that we are not a big club anymore and getting 4th is now a dream, forget titles. What Everton, Leicester, Wolves, Arsenal, Spurs are doing, is amazing and have edged ahead of us in this window. Chelsea, Liverpool and City are already there. I would not be surprised if we fimished 10th.

 

[Majima]

Absolutely it's both. We just need to find the right fit.

I think it would be a travesty for yet another manager to take the bullet for the board's failure to again deliver on their promises though. Regardless of anything, he did achieve the absolute maximum for us last season finishing third. He at least deserved the chance to build upon that. Now he's being undermined already. Though i'm a fan of Poch's work at Spurs, it shouldn't be like this. Where is the decency?

 

[cjj]

As top priority Poch would ship Pogba out ASAP, for whatever United could get for him given the wages he's on. He has no time for prima donna nonsense and players who don't sweat blood for the team.

I think his tenure would start and end there though. What people often don't appreciate is how supportive Levy was when Poch decided to ostracise the club's captains and expensive players. I think people also will under-estimate how lucky he was that he had the likes of Kane, Mason and Townsend who stepped up and backed him up on the pitch.

I think if someone tried to push Pogba out, the upper management at United would push back. I don't get the feeling there are footballing people that would understand - they'd just see the pound signs being damaged. Several managers have come and gone now and it's clear, at least from my observation, that the players are in control.