A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

UnitedSofa

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Ole for feck sake.

Also explain to us how you and your ilks love of changing managers every fecking season helps the club build back up again?
Woah woah Woah!

I'm fully Ole In and want to give him time, the time to get things turned around, which with the right players, I believe he could

I don't want the club to keep changing managers. That won't achieve anything and we'd just end up going around in circles
 

TheReligion

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@TheReligion If you can be arsed reading all that, that pretty much sums up most of my thoughts on Poch :lol:.
Just read it. Thanks for sharing and taking the time. Especially after that result. Interesting to hear and totally understandable why things have crumbled when you add it all together.

It's like you need a rebuild similar to United.
 

Dec9003

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You need to follow the earlier messages in the conversation.
I did
When we have multiple threads for bashing Ole, I'm sure you can understand that it might be a bit tedious to want to read about Poch and still read the same rants.
 

hn4manunited

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Yea but who will pay the crazy fees Levy will demand? Running down a contract to move on isnt an ideal approach. Some players will be locked in for 5 years.
sure but unhappy players don’t perform as well either. Sometimes, they are just no longer fully bought in to the cause.
 

redshaw

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culminating in him openly declaring he would consider it the end of his time at the club if we won the Champions League.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of the Spurs fans going to town absolutely rubbishing the notion he said he would leave if he won the CL? Not thinking of Glaston by the way.

Good write up though.
 

Ramshock

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Woah woah Woah!

I'm fully Ole In and want to give him time, the time to get things turned around, which with the right players, I believe he could

I don't want the club to keep changing managers. That won't achieve anything and we'd just end up going around in circles
I got the wrong end of the stick, apologies!
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you one of the Spurs fans going to town absolutely rubbishing the notion he said he would leave if he won the CL?

Good write up though.
I don't think so, he literally said he would 'think of doing something different' if he won the competition so it would've been pretty hard to deny?

I think it's pretty clear either way the CL final was a huge moment. Either Poch walks in to the sunset and ends his time at Spurs as a hero, or he goes kinda half-heartedly in to a rebuild.

Sadly, the latter happened ..
 

redshaw

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I don't think so, he literally said he would 'think of doing something different' if he won the competition so it would've been pretty hard to deny?

I think it's pretty clear either way the CL final was a huge moment. Either Poch walks in to the sunset and ends his time at Spurs as a hero, or he goes kinda half-heartedly in to a rebuild.

Sadly, the latter happened ..
Yes, I said a while back it could be hard to lift the players after a CL loss and run like that, also tough to get them up for an unlikely run at the league with City and Pool having such a grip and Spur's squad needing more. Feels like he went for broke to win or lose and avoid draws to try and bridge the gap in the league last season.

It does seem like a chapter and book ending but I'm not sure you can do better than Poch.
 

L1nk

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Should of left in the summer, he was never gonna take them further.

People criticising should consider Klopp's last season at Dortmund before he joined Liverpool, absolute shambles compared to his previous season with them, it happens, he left then because he knew he'd taken them as far as he could and he wasn't getting the response he needed anymore, suspect the same will happen with Pochettino no and don't be surprised if Real Madrid approach him anytime soon considering what's happening with Zidane and them lot at the moment.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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I'd still take him tbh
He's a great coach. He will do really well wherever he goes, imo.

Like others have said, what he's experiencing is similar to what Klopp faced at Liverpool. Sometimes a coach just reaches the end of his tenure.
 

Sylar

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One thing Spurs used to have were flying fullbacks. Dont seem to have that now.

The RB position especially seems to have been digressing nearly every year. From Walker to Trippier to now Aurier + Walker-Peters.
 

Adam-Utd

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He's run his road at Spurs. Cant' go any further, seems disillusioned.

He has some freakishly bad results in his time also. This Bayern aren't that good, losing 7 goals at home is awful.
 

RussellWilson

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He's still a brilliant coach that can build a team and improve players. Exactly what we need with a rebuild and massively weak squad.

He'll get us back in the top 4, build a squad and get us back to some sort of respectable position. Then depending on if Pep hangs around and Liverpool can hang on to their players I think he can win a league.

But the way things are at United at the moment, Sir Alex himself would find it tough to get this United team winning a league in short amount of time.
 

Tyrion

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Never managed a big club to success but yes let’s sack our current manager for him and can’t see what can possibly go wrong
I'd argue he's significantly improved Spurs and that OGS has never managed any club in a big league to success.

Also, I don't think we should sack OGS for Poch. At least, not until the summer.
 

always_hoping

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So who still wants him........
I for one never wanted him and can't get over how overrated he is by some. The last year is the first time he's had a some pressure in that mainly low pressured spurs job and he has lost more games than any other English team in 2019. He would struggle at bigger club like Real Madrid where the pressure is applied within months.
 

saivet

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I think he's definitely worth a punt. While I'm not sure he would be the guy to win things year in year out at United, I'd have confidence in him rebuilding the squad and having us as a consistent top 4 team, and if funded well he'd be able to mount a title challenge further down the line.

I do have question marks with him over his in-game management, but given what he has done at Southampton and Spurs I think he is an adaptable enough manager to get the best out of the players he has. Certainly a much better option than Ole.

I wouldn't want Allegri and I'm not familiar enough with any of the hipster managers out there, but I'd be very happy if we can get Poch.
 

momo83

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Poch went 3 windows without a signing. Had the same spine and main players for several seasons. Realistically it’s time for him to step up and join a team where success will be judged by winning.
 

jackal&hyde

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One of those managers that is very good at creating a siege mentality for a club that is seen as an underdog, but as soon as expectations rise he crashes and crumbles under the pressure. He's still young for a manager and will learn more, but he's very far from the WC level manager that he's been made out to be. Do not want for United as here all we have is pressure.
 

1966

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Doing even worse than us at the moment, with a better squad. That has to be a concern for those who want him in, although I believe he is a good manager.
I don't think it is a better squad anymore as evidenced by Poch continually having to play want-aways.

Their fullbacks are not top 6 reserve standard, their main CB pairing was world class but has declined quickly and dramatically over the last couple of years, Lloris's howlers have become a manyfold more common occurrence, and the midfield is in crisis mode (Eriksen is playing poorly even while putting in effort, Dembele was an underappreciated cornerstone, Wanyama is permanently crocked, everyone else has regressed and the newbies aren't ready to replace them).

The only area of the pitch in which the Spurs squad is currently indisputably better than Utd is in attack. Kane and Son are far better than any two forwards you have and are right up there with any attacking duo in the league and beyond.

Spurs in 2019 have relied on Kane and Son (and to a lesser extent Lucas) to score out of almost nothing with very thin service from the deteriorated side behind them. Of course, relying on moments of magic isn't a way to consistently win matches, thus the quandary in which Spurs find themselves and their awful record this year.

Quote is not wrong:
I’m still not sure what his style is at all to be fair though. I watch spurs most games and they never seem to have a proper game plan. Just Son or Kane will score 90% of the time, often from nothing.
 
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ivaldo

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I don’t believe it’s only due to Poch, I’ve predicted in the beginning of the season that Spurs would collapse.
You can come second only this many times before it fecks you up and eats your motivation from within, that squad of players is done.
Apparently once is all it takes for Poch.
 

sammsky1

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Ok, so ..


I'm hearing a lot about how it's the players fault that we conceded 7 at home tonight. That somehow a backline featuring 4 internationals who start for their countries, with the French captain behind them, are so poor as individual players that they're incapable of putting in a competent performance in which we aren't completely taken apart by a not particularly brilliant Bayern team. It's complete and utter fecking nonsense. None of them are perfect players and all have their weaknesses (fullbacks in particular are a joke) but right now the way we're set up is simply magnifying those weaknesses, and the lot of them are clearly a basket full of nerves currently.

We set up, again, without a recognised defensive midfielder. Nobody seemed to be protecting our two ageing central defenders with two fullbacks who love to get forward (and often lose the ball) high up the pitch. I think it was meant to be Sissoko in that role, but he has zero positional discipline, and Pochettino should be aware that he's going to leave gaps all over the place, which is what happened. We looked bright going forward and winning the ball, but when Bayern got it and attacked the space, they had so much space in/around the box and for Gnabry and Coman to drive in to.

Furthermore, we played (as usual) with an incredibly high line. We persist with this tactic despite the fact that Bayern had two players who were ripping us apart when getting in behind, and midfielders very much capable of picking them out in those positions. A high line with slow central defenders and no defensive midfielder against the movement of Lewandowski and two flying wingers either side of him? When we're currently very low in confidence? It's suicide tactics. Pochettino setup like we're playing Aston Villa at home on a 10 game winning run. We were able to look bright in attacking positions because we have good ball carriers/forwards, but tactically were a complete mess when it came to stopping Bayern from getting in to scoring positions.

Aside from that, mentally we're shot as a team. We took the lead tonight, just like we did against Olympiakos, Leicester and Arsenal, but as soon as the pressure started getting applied and a goal went in, we gradually fell apart and showed zero ability to get a grip on what was happening on the pitch. People used to joke about us being Spursy, but for a good while under Poch we were actually a very resilient team, often held on to leads and also came back from losing positions, but now we're a team that doubts itself when in front and crumbles when it falls behind. A Pochettino team used to be one which showed a hell of a lot of fight, tonight it looked like players just wanted it to be over and limply accepted what was going on, even when the penalty got us back in to the game it didn't seem to trigger any kind of fight.

The truth is this has been building for a while. Over a long period Pochettino has grumbled in the press, been linked to moves away, culminating in him openly declaring he would consider it the end of his time at the club if we won the Champions League. I do think that gradual frustration at a lack of investment and turnover in the squad has simply led to Pochettino losing interest, and that kind of attitude can seep down in to the squad and lead to a team which simply isn't motivated to play to their top level. There hasn't really been an opportunity for him to move on, but if there had been, would he have taken it? I think so.

There's obviously issues unrelated to the manager. Several of our key players don't really want to be here any longer and that's bound to cause friction in the dressing room. They should have been moved on from the club and replaced, but instead we've left it to the last second. But Pochettino continues to start the likes of Eriksen, Toby and Aurier despite the alternatives being there, and it was him who (according to reports) basically failed to tell Trippier he wasn't wanted, leading to a bit of a crisis at fullback. I blamed Trippier a lot for poor performances last season, but his success at Atletico leads me to believe that defensively at least, our defenders right now are being set up to fail. We also get bizarre decisions like starting Alli when he looked barely league 2 level at Colchester and was embarrassing against Olympiakos, and seriously Aurier? After he was a complete moron against Southampton? Jesus christ. Lamela has shown the most fight of anybody this season and didn't even get on the pitch tonight.

Basically, I think it's done. Pochettino has never been a top manager tactically, which I do think is part of why we've failed to win a trophy despite being impressive, but has built a fantastic team through having a philosophy which works, and a squad which will run through walls for him. He built a legacy off the back of a lot of young players who he developed brilliantly, but now he has a lot of players who are ageing and can't press like mad dogs every week, but he's failed to adapt to the changing face of the squad. If he goes elsewhere and gets the time and backing to build his own team I think he'll be successful, because he's a fantastic and inspiring coach, but once a manager loses a dressing room it's almost impossible to recover from that.

And finally, stop saying tonight was a fluke or a one off. A huge defeat has been coming for ages. We should have been slapped for 6 or 7 by City in the second game of the season but for some reason Jesus Christ himself was on our side and stopped City from ripping us to shreds. Tactically we've been hugely naive and open for ages, individual quality from the likes of Kane or Son has been getting us through games but as a team we haven't put together a good run in over a year, and you can't accept that to simply turn around. Tonight could have been even worse - our penalty was soft and they should have had one. If we continue with Poch the games we have left vs City & Liverpool could be horrendous, proper us under AVB stuff.

Fecking long post so I don't really expect anyone to read it :lol:. But I needed to try and counter the bullshit about 'it's just players letting him down' or 'it was just a one off fluke', because it's nothing like that. People have been saying Spurs fans have been overreacting for fecking months now, when the fans who watch us week in and week out can clearly see there's something very wrong at the heart of the club. Our form over a large period of time has been nothing short of woeful, it's not just some blip at the club, it's a manager who no longer really wants to be here leading a squad of players who either don't really believe in him anymore, or want to leave themselves.
Great read, thanks for being so honest!

I think it’s obvious what is going on which you also covered: lack of investment in team has stagnated ability of squad and his own personal interest. Levy has really screwed this up. Can see him leaving as soon as appropriate opportunity comes up and your squad getting decimated.

Do you think he was annoyed that Woodward went for OGS instead of him?

Would he be keen on replacing OGS, should he be removed in near future?
 

jackal&hyde

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I don't think it is a better squad anymore as evidenced by Poch continually having to play want-aways.

Their fullbacks are not top 6 reserve standard, their main CB pairing was world class but has declined quickly and dramatically over the last couple of years, Lloris's howlers have become a manyfold more common occurrence, and the midfield is in crisis mode (Eriksen is playing poorly even while putting in effort, Dembele was an underappreciated cornerstone, Wanyama is permanently crocked, everyone else has regressed and the newbies aren't ready to replace them).

The only area of the pitch in which the Spurs squad is currently indisputably better than Utd is in attack. Kane and Son are far better than any two forwards you have and are right up there with any attacking duo in the league and beyond.

Spurs in 2019 have relied on Kane and Son (and to a lesser extent Lucas) to score out of almost nothing with very thin service from the deteriorated side behind them. Of course, relying on moments of magic isn't a way to consistently win matches, thus the quandary in which Spurs find themselves and their awful record this year.

Quote is not wrong:
Nah i think you are being to critical on the players. They have a good first 11 with players wanted by the biggest clubs, players that have played together for a long time so there should be no understanding issues and a manager that had a long time to impose his play style. No one is saying that they should win the league, but the major meltdown we've been seeing for months now coincided with Spurs being seen as potential challengers; he is crumbling under the pressure imo.

I don't think he is fit for a club where the pressure will be on from the first day no matter the players available, like Madrid or United.
 

Ricky

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Its amazing that people are comparing Klopp with Poch. Poch has not lost any players of great signficance and he has spent money this summer.
The decline actually started right when they lost the final to Bayern. It was forseen by many (including myself) that it was going downhill from there mainly because they lost their talisman to their rivals in the form of Mario Götze. However, focusing on the 2014-2015 season....Dortmund had just lost another talisman (Lewandowski) to their rivals, Marco Reus was in and out due to injuries, and Gundogan had just came back from a year-long injury so he wasn't at his best. So really to me, it was a squad-issue that required Klopp to constantly have to reinvent new formations with a make-shift/subpar squad. His squad was hampered with injuries yet they managed to finish 7th. Poch on the other hand has to be seen as a failure. I mean look at the squad he inherited compared to Klopp.

Mauricio Pochettino squad inherited

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season

Jurgen Klopp Squad inherited

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Liverpool_F.C._season

That liverpool squad was terrible bar Coutinho and Firmino. Im still yet to see what exactly Mauricio Pochettino game plan is apart from a magic moment from Kane. Its crazy he has no trophy to show after inheriting the squad he did. One of the most overrated coaches in Europe. He should not get mentioned in the same breath as Klopp or Pep.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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He's done what he could with Spurs. Levy just never give him the chance to improve the squad every season. Now he's left with such a very old squad especially in defense.

The worst part from the board was last season he had zero transfer in and lost Dembele. Despite of all those, he was still able to make it to top 4 & final CL. Although the top 4 did require some luck at the end but top 4 is still a top 4.

I'll take him. Check our two most important philosophy.
  • Playing attacking football
  • Likes to give young players chances & develop them

Never win anything? So? Anyone can see how talented he is & he's still young. A talented manager like him will win something in the future, it's only matter of time. I think the most important thing is if he can make the fans happy then that's good. Pretty sure the fans including myself would like our team to play attacking football & having a manager who dares to give young players chances & develop them.

He's proven for many years. That alone gives him a boost to be above Ole's level man management.

For another additional boost, if we end up with Poch, it will give us very good chance to sign Eriksen. Eriksen for free is no brainer.
 

ivaldo

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Should of left in the summer, he was never gonna take them further.

People criticising should consider Klopp's last season at Dortmund before he joined Liverpool, absolute shambles compared to his previous season with them, it happens, he left then because he knew he'd taken them as far as he could and he wasn't getting the response he needed anymore, suspect the same will happen with Pochettino no and don't be surprised if Real Madrid approach him anytime soon considering what's happening with Zidane and them lot at the moment.
The difference is Klopp won 5 trophies at Dortmund, including back to back league trophies. Poch has got the team finishing a position or two higher in the league, which a squad that should absolutely have some something.
 

HNK55

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Cannot believe people are writing him off so easily. The guy has one of the most difficult jobs in the premier league. Year on year he rarely gets players. They have no replacement for Kane, half their players want out. Must be a very shitty situation for Poch.

If we didn’t have Lampard I’d have taken him in a heartbeat. Not saying Lampard is a better coach, because he isn’t, but can’t sack a club legend when he is doing alright.
 

Cnaiür urs Skiötha

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Bayern was brilliant in the second half yesterday. I think in the first they were a bit surprised that there is suddenly an opponent playing on par with them respectively even put them under pressure. They are not used to this.
Respect how they adopted so this should not be talked down.

Defensively Spurs were shocking. Nearly each attacking move by Bayern turned into a chance. That Gnabry had the game of his life netting 4 out of 4 is another story but I had the feeling there was no plan B. The defense just completely fell apart.

Attacking wise they are a much better team than us and for this Pochettino deserves credit. I have not watched Spurs this season so no idea if their defense yesterday was an abnormality.
 

HNK55

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Their hunger is gone
This usually happens after you’ve won a few trophies. Spurs got to one champions league final and now the hungers gone? I think the players have realised they aren’t going to win anything at Spurs.
 
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