Don't believe it for a minute, English clubs have been overrun by much weaker midfields in Europe in the past (us included, Barcelona midfield wasn't full of tall physical players when they hammered us twice).
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In the case of Barca you are talking about one of the best midfield's ever, one that played like a machine that was tuned to perfection from youth. As for it happening in one off European games, that's exactly what it is, a one off cup game, week in and week out in the league is very different, it's no coincidence that most of the top 7 carry a physically strong athlete in their midfield, from Matic to Yaya to Henderson to the duo of Schneiderlin and Wanyama.
Arsenal don't but they have several speedsters up top which takes pressure off their midfield as teams don't want their CM's to press to o high and leave space in behind.
I think you can play a central midfield without physical presence or without pace. Definitely a risk to play one lacking both qualities.
After seeing the game, the defence is making it impossible for us to be too attacking which hasn't helped Ander. People are going on about this midfielder and that midfielder. The defence is going to need a fortune spent on it. No Rafael, No Jones and No Evans. A backup for Shaw is needed as well as Rojo is awful there. Then a striker as well. Get the defence sorted and the rest will click into place.
I think a mobile and skillful midfield with technical players will cause more difficulties to a strong midfield full of powerful players than the other way around. Herrera isn't weak anyway, he's actually pretty strong - the fact that he's Spanish prevents people from seeing that I feel. Even Blind isn't weak IMO.
It doesn't seem to be the case very often in our league, and you have to factor in that we aren't talking about great big lumps, the powerful CM's in these other teams are mobile and technically good. I don't think either of them are weak per se, but to play them together is asking for trouble as they both need a player that compliments what they lack IMO.
I agree that the defense is completely shot, Shaw and Rojo are the only two when played in their correct back 4 positions that don't wet themselves when in possession or tracking a runner. However as I said in the summer transfer thread, I feel all areas of the team need attention, including midfield, we haven't got nearly enough quality options and not enough variety in what we do have. Herrera and Blind in a midfield 3 with Schneiderlin for instance would offer a proper balance, but we'd need at least one more and hopefully the promotion of Pereira to round things out and avoid using Rooney or Fellaini as CM's.
No matter how good, bad, average, brilliant or anything else he was last night, I think most agree he should be playing football more often than he is given injuries to the actual central midfielders over the season.
He's slim, he's not overly powerful but that's never stopped him shutting out other teams in the past and being part of a unit that presses the shit out of teams and tires them out. But I'm guessing Rooney Mata and Fellaini at Preston.
He's slim, he's not overly powerful but that's never stopped him shutting out other teams in the past and being part of a unit that presses the shit out of teams and tires them out. But I'm guessing Rooney Mata and Fellaini at Preston.
Neither Carrick nor Scholes were particularly effective physically unless you consider the opposition being afraid of Scholes breaking their legs with an ill-timed challenge. Neither one is fast either. That said, they were the last real central midfield pairing that worked.
Van Gaal just needs to grow a pair and drop Falcao and Van Persie, put Rooney back up top with Wilson and it'll free a spot in midfield for Ander. It shouldn't be surprising we aren't playing well when some of our best players are on the bench while we try to play two over the hill forwards into form.
I agree, I can see it working as long as we outplay the opposite team who will try to physically dominate. If we move the ball quick enough, Blind and Herrera (the the support of ADM in midfield or Rooney as a no.10 or even Fellaini as a 3man midfield), it could work very well.
The physical presence get's overrated in England. Just look at the "weak" Spanish midfiels, yet the mostly dominate through clever, quick play
Carrick actually was (is?) deceptively quick. He also wins a lot of headers in midfield. He's not going to run around kicking people but he's definitely got presence.
Moving back to Hererra, the gaffer was impressed:
Indeed, people go on about the awesomeness of Premier League and its incredible difficulty yet when you look at lower placed English teams they're mostly dross. We shouldn't build our team around that foundation.
We should build our teams to excel in the league they play in. Nobody is saying the Premier League is uniquely difficult but it is more physical than most other leagues, with referees who tend to be much more lenient. Take any technical, physically slight Spanish team and make them play a whole season with PL referees against PL opposition and they'd struggle. Any PL manager who wants to win domestic trophies needs to bear this in mind. Just ask Arsene Wenger.
I actually don't think they would. I think the opposite - put a mid-table English side in La Liga along with their technical skillful players who operate very well in tight spaces and they'd probably be around the bottom.
If Fabregas can play as a midfield 2 in the Premier league then so can Herrera. Admittedly he certainly needs to work on his body strength and add muscle but he's gifted in a technical sense and does not always need to use his body to get through midfield. He is also an excellent tackler and interceptor of the ball. Start him Van Gaal!
Got a great reception when he came on, definitely a fan favourite even outside of the forum. Played very well and helped us actually play some football which was nice. The switch to a wide 4-4-2 definitely helped too, it gave us better outlet's and stopped their fullbacks pushing us up the pitch. He offered a good outlet to Rooney too who only had eyes backwards.
Overall he should be starting the next game, but I imagine Fellaini will be chosen for his "physical presence" against Preston.
Overall he should be starting the next game, but I imagine Fellaini will be chosen for his "physical presence" against Preston.
Fabregas plays alongside Matic though, who's pretty much best in class when it comes to DMs.
Fabregas has Matic next to him, if we paired Ander with Schneiderlin for example it may also work, but Herrera and Blind? Personally I just don't think so.
At times Herrera was running with Arfield on his back without losing the ball. Why are we behaving as if Herrera's a midget? He is nearly 6ft tall. I think he can manage in a midfield two.
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Plus he's classes above Herrera, let's not get ahead of ourselves. He'll make up for his lack of strength with other attributes.
Not bad hey. Leads in chances created, passes completed. Second in tackles and interceptions.
They probably would. You've completely missed my point though. It's not about the opposition, it's about how the game is referee'd.
Oh, there you do have a point.
There would be some adjustment but I don't think they would stuggle as badly as you think tbh. Technical skills will eventually over come brute force and physicallity all the time, even in the EPL. They would just take time to get used to it.
Clear to see Herrera and Blind would make a great combination in midfield. When's the last time we started Herrera and Blind?Not bad hey. Leads in chances created, passes completed. Second in tackles and interceptions.
Exactly. In the same way that most Spanish players take time to get used to playing for a PL team.
Obviously, some members of that hypothetical Spanish team would adjust quicker than others, some may not adapt at all. There are clear differences between playing football in the two leagues, which it's silly to ignore by claiming that technique is all that matters.
Agree. I would say though I think Herrera is one that would adpat quickly, if given the time on the pitch too.
He'll be adapting in training too but yeah, he does seem like the type of player who should flourish in the PL. Especially the way he likes a full-blooded tackle. Just needs to work on his upper body strength a little, so he can bounce off challenges a bit better. Doubt we'll see the best of him until his second season. Which is fairly standard for a young player adapting to a different league.
So I went and checked, the last time we started them together was the 2-2 against West Brom when Herrera didn't recover from his rib injury. The last time they completed a game together was the 5-3 loss against Leicester.
In fact they've only started together 4 times this season. West Brom away, West Ham home, Leicester away and QPR home. QPR and Leicester being the only one's they completed (Herrera went off injured against West Ham and came off at half time against West Brom).
I do not really get it. We have bought a DM in Blind and a CM in Herrera. Both have the potential to be one of the best in their position but they hardly play together. Beside that our main strikers RvP and Falcao struggle and Rooney is not really convincing in midfield.
LVG logic, I'm sure there is a good reason for what he is trying to accomplish with it all, I just hope it either works or he gives up and moves on to something else very soon.
The annoying thing for me is, Fellaini might be this big tall guy but he is not a physical monster. When I watch him, I don't think he looks that powerful. His goal output is similar to Anders's isnt it? So its not like he is in the team for that too.
I just dont get it.
I just dont get it.
I don't get it either as according to LVG he's competing with Rooney, ADM, Mata and not Fellaini, how many times does it have to be brought up.
He may say that but that's not reality.
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'Yet he still seems to have some way to go to win the trust of Van Gaal and his coaching staff. There is a feeling around the club that he has not bought into the manager’s strict ‘philosophy’ quite as well as some of his teammates'
Seriously...? #philosophy
As I predicted, he plays today. I think he played much more reserved role in Wednesday, just as van Gaal wanted according to reports. Seems fair decision to give him a chance.
Plays well off the bench. Gets picked next game. As it should be. Plays well tonight and he'll start our next game. Good stuff.
Preston 1:3 Man Utd
Been a little disappointed with him. I'm looking for his quality on the ball and not seen it yet.
Doesn't inspire confidence in anything he does.
Wow thats a little harsh...
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