i think that he is our most important signing too. We really need him and Blind to control the midfield and play some passes to our offensive players. It is time to step up in midfield and boss games again.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Goals
- 8
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 6
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
- Status
Is he back in training this week or the week after this?
Yep, I echo the sentiment. He may have flown a bit under the radar in the press, but we really need a big season from him. He is the equlibrium in this team, the glue that will make it all work.
I am quite confident he will do it though.
I am quite confident he will do it though.
He still remains the player whose name I'll get on my shirt and the player I am most excited to have signed.
He will be very integral, especially in regards to defending and workrate which is needed behind some of our attacking fairies!
He will be very integral, especially in regards to defending and workrate which is needed behind some of our attacking fairies!
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Oh God... Don't remind us of that substitution 
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Get in. We've missed his grit in the middle. Looking forward to him getting back into competitive games for us.
I swear until we made that sub we were definitely going to win against Swansea. Thank God Herrera's back. We need some good news what with Jones going down injured tonight.Oh God... Don't remind us of that substitution
Thank feck Herrera's back, he's going to be crucial this year for us.
EDIT: Saying that our whole XI will be crucial at all times but Herrera's special because he's Spanish.
EDIT: Saying that our whole XI will be crucial at all times but Herrera's special because he's Spanish.
Brilliant. His dynamism in the middle is badly needed. Also, he can pass the ball which helps.
I only hope for him and his style of play that he has as few injuries as possible. These ankle injuries suck...
I have huge hopes for him. Finally going to give us that combination of bite and creativity in midfield that we've been lacking for so long.
Probably our most important signing in the long-term. He's a likeable guy too, I can see him quickly becoming a fan favourite.
Probably our most important signing in the long-term. He's a likeable guy too, I can see him quickly becoming a fan favourite.
It's really weird being a United fan at the moment. We have nearly a whole team of players who have hardly turned out for us yet - the new signings, Shaw, Rojo, Blind, Herrera, Di Maria, Falcao, the new young players like Blackett and James, and Mata, Januzaj and even Fellaini still feel like new players as well.
Looking forward to seeing Herrera for us.
Looking forward to seeing Herrera for us.
The biggest problem is they just target him as we saw against Swansea. Thats why we need another top quality CM alongside him, otherwise you just have to take him out and we are struggling. After his show against Galaxy, it wasnt just thst his level dropped, but you could see the opposition teams closing him down immeditely and fouling him constantly. He is our best midfielder and they know it.
Having Blind and Di Maria in midfield next to him, as opposed to Fletcher or Cleverley, should help him.
Still probably one of the more important signings this summer. His quality will show this season.
Not to under-appreciate our current new buys but if we get Strootman I think he'll be ideal next to Ander in the same way he works with Pjanic.
Felliani that much taller than Ander? Looks like Felliani is like 6ft 6in (excluding the fro) or Ander is 5ft 5in
TBF I hold the converse opinion. Herrera is more akin to Strootman in a high octane box-to-box #8 position. His tenacity and superb work ethic combined with good mobility is ideally suited to that role. What he can't do with relative consistency is be the main rhythm-setter of a midfield and control the tempo from deeper areas. Which is more Pjanic territory. Strootman combined with Herrera would give us two very similar midfielders and I'm not sure that's the best idea.
I was thinking along the lines of Strootman and Herrera playing as box to box CM's in front of Blind, who I guess would play the tempo setting role, with Di Maria possibly moving up as part of a front 3. Strootman's physicality in midfield next to Herrera might offer him some protection.
This. Short, simple post, but a great post.
A midfield 3 of Herrera, Di Maria and Blind supporting a front 3 of Rooney, Falcao and RvP is gonna win trophies.
That's an idea but IMO our team will become totally unbalanced. Ideally in a 3 man midfield :
1. is the defensive screen whose main job is to guard the central defenders.
2. is the primary playmaker than can control the tempo of a game while in possession of the ball.
3. is a box-to box midfielder or has good dribbling ability/ mobility to extent plays.
If we look at some of the better traditional 4-3-3/ 4-3-1-2 teams of the past decade :
Gattuso 1, Pirlo 2, Seedorf 3
Busquets 1, Xavi 2, Iniesta 3.
Alonso 1/2 hybrid, Modric 2/3 hybrid, Di Maria 3.
Edmilson 1, Xavi 2, Deco 3.
If we replace the 2 with two #3s there's every chance to lose control of the game, especially vs possession oriented teams because even though Herrera and Strootman are technically gifted - neither those 2 or Blind have the vision or passing range to really impose themselves on the game. The sole example of a successful team using 2 box-to-box player in the central areas Juventus but they have Pirlo as the playmaker.
What we need more than anything else IMO is someone who is like a younger Xabi or Scholes in his older days when he just sat back and picked teams apart. A player like him surrounded by the energy, workrate and mobility of Herrera + Di Maria would be a deadly combination and instantly catapult the current lot into one of the best midfields in Europe. I think someone like Koke or Ruben Neves (very inexperienced) would be better suited to that role than Strootman because both have great vision and the requisite passing range/ defensive work-rate.
Pjanic was a beast for Bosnia at the World Cup but there wasn't even a word that he's linked to us. I suspect maybe our scouts think that he wouldn't suit us.
You're putting far too much emphasis on the limitations those roles would present. Blind, Strootman and Herrera are all ball winners who have tactical nous, there's not many midfield 3 in world football that it would be more difficult to control a game against. I think you're also underplaying their passing ability, let's not forget Herrera was playing as a #10 last season, you don't play there unless you have a bit of creativity about you.
1. Ideally United should be playing a more proactive brand of football. The first emboldened part disturbs me greatly. This reeks of reactionary playing style, where in a midfield of 3 stifling/ high work rate players in used to negate opposition creativity. The kind employed by Jose in Mendes, Costinha, Maniche. While it can be effective, this is certainly not how I envision United to be playing in the future. We should be trying to dictate the pace of the game and let the opposition worry about containing us rather than the other way round. Not that there's much wrong with being extra-forceful but this parking the bus scheme doesn't appeal very much to me.
2. Creativity is not a concern though. Loads of players have superlative amounts of skill and creative ability but only a few can influence the passage of play. At Bilbao Ander was an Oscar kind of high energy #10, who was equally renowned for his defensive work-rate and played quick passes in the final third. What I mean is someone who can slow down the game when necessary, ping the ball from sideline to sideline and keep proceeding in order. And he certainly isn't that kind of a player - someone who's a director in the mould of Scholes, Xavi, Pirlo, Alonso, Schweinsteiger or some of the more esteemed withdrawn play makers of the modern era.
A great example of illustrate the point I'm trying to make is Spain's victorious 2011 Euro U21 squad where Martinez was their #6, Herrera the box to box and Thiago was the primary play maker. Take Thiago out of that line-up and their control of the game will suffer massively because you're replacing someone who can consistently make 100+ passes per game with someone who averages around 60. Consequently that means 40+ extra passes for the opposition which lends them a greater amount of control over the game.
Yep. It annoys me when people say we don't address our shortcomings in defense and midfield. Well, we got 2 defenders and 3 midfielders, and all 5 either looks promising, or absolute world class. I swear if our midfield buy is not named Vidal, or defender named Benatia, people are gonna fecking complains
I can see where you're coming from but again I feel you're undervaluing their passing abilities, as you've already mentioned Juve are an example where you have similar players in a 3 and it still works. You could take it further and look at City, they have a midfield 2 if Toure and Fernandinho, at times they've even put Fernando in there to make a 3, there's no deep lying play maker but they can still control a game by imposing themselves with a bit of tenacity. You may feel it leads to 40+ passes for the opposition but conversely an extra ball winner (with ability) will counter that. Add Di Maria and Rooney to the mix and we have an incredibly hard working team that's going to turn the ball over a lot.
But see here's the thing though :
Juventus have arguably the 2nd greatest regista in modern football in Pirlo who can control matches almost single-handedly. Any permutation of Strootman, Ander, Blind can't replicate that. Omit Pirlo from their lineup and Juventus suffers evinced by them scraping past Chievo last week.
Roma in comparison have the perfect trio : De Rossi is the defensive holder, Naingollan/ Strootman is the box to box and Pjanic is the creative lynch pin - stemming from his average of 5 key passes per game this season. Even Chelsea's best starting midfield 3 adheres to this philosophy. Matic is the defensive holder, Ramires is the box to box and Cesc is the main creative force. Now before one argues it, yes Cesc is superior to Ander in play making/ passing ability. I believe we went for Herrera because he offers greater amounts of energy, team-work, drive and commitment. All admirable qualities but they won't overcompensate for his inherent deficiencies as a manipulator of the game.
City is again not the greatest comparison because Yaya Toure's passing ability and vision are world-class - something Ander or Strootman haven't displayed so far. People often under-rate that facet of his game, this is someone who's really expansive in his passing, having played in Guardiola's Barcelona. Matter of fact he regularly notches 100 passes per game while boasting 90 %+ pass completion. eg vs Liverpool he had 98 passes and 93 % pass accuracy.
Again, like you alluded to - I'm not arguing that it won't work in the right circumstances. But it's certainly not the best use of each players' ability, isn't as effective as a prototypical 3 man midfield is supposed to be and isn't aesthetically pleasing either. Why settle for Strootman when we have a player of similar ilk and could instead go for Koke who would cost maybe £10-15 million more than Strootman and is unarguably the better prospect.
But is Yaya someone who can control games like you were originally stating? In fact its the biggest criticism.
Still, valid points, I feel we just view the game a little differently.
Agree that Koke would be a better signing than Strootman and with the general thrust of your post but I would like to see how Herrera and Blind settle in the side first. If Blind could perform the Carrick role to a decent standard then it could work because Carrick was our conductor and isn't that the role Bind's agent said he was promised ? Yeah his no Pirlo but they are different ways to skin a cat.
I do believe he can and does in fairness. May not be Xavi level at that but IMO he operates at a higher wavelength than what we have/ Strootman. Equally I could be under-rating them a bit and they could make me eat humble pie down the line.
But as you said, maybe we view the game in a different way. Apples and oranges. Having said that, I just desperately want United to have someone as aesthetically pleasing as Scholes while simultaneously taking charge of the game.
All true. Maybe our current lot can develop into something extraordinary thus eliminating the need for procuring a player of the caliber of Koke.
I think Herrera is our key signing. Being successful or not will depend a lot on how he will do for us this season.
No worry about di Maria - he is absolute world class and will improve our attacking play a lot. Blind will give us a lot of stability as long as we will play him on a constand basis as DM.
Herrera is the connecting piece - our lung or our engine if you want to put it like that. He has the tools and the physics so I hope he will deliver.
No worry about di Maria - he is absolute world class and will improve our attacking play a lot. Blind will give us a lot of stability as long as we will play him on a constand basis as DM.
Herrera is the connecting piece - our lung or our engine if you want to put it like that. He has the tools and the physics so I hope he will deliver.
@Invictus
You do make a valid point about us lacking a metronomic expansive presence in our potential midfield. In the short term we do have Carrick though, who LVG seems to rate very highly. Perhaps Blind has been brought in to eventually replace him from the first team and take over the metronomic duties.
I know you think Blind doesn't have the expansive aspect to his game that a Busquets/Alonso/Carrick posses. However, he is a metronomic passer who given the time, has the ability and the tools to grow into this role. I personally haven't seen much of him but I believe that he has what it takes (the basics and foundation) to take his game into the next level.
You do make a valid point about us lacking a metronomic expansive presence in our potential midfield. In the short term we do have Carrick though, who LVG seems to rate very highly. Perhaps Blind has been brought in to eventually replace him from the first team and take over the metronomic duties.
I know you think Blind doesn't have the expansive aspect to his game that a Busquets/Alonso/Carrick posses. However, he is a metronomic passer who given the time, has the ability and the tools to grow into this role. I personally haven't seen much of him but I believe that he has what it takes (the basics and foundation) to take his game into the next level.
I've never heard midfield traits be referred to as metronomic. I'm severely lagging behind in this new era of football buzzwords.
I'm excited by him though. His grit in midfield is nothing short of algebraic.
I'm excited by him though. His grit in midfield is nothing short of algebraic.
Here's hoping he can come back and have a solid base to work from.
He hasn't been particularly impressive but it's been hard with effectively no midfield partner alongside him.
He hasn't been particularly impressive but it's been hard with effectively no midfield partner alongside him.
IMO he was one of our best, if not our best player vs Swansea on the first day. We went to shit shortly after he was subbed off.
Not really saying much is it? We were fairly shocking all round against Swansea.
He was solid but didn't stand out for me. Didn't really offer too much but had a good touch, gave the ball away a few times but mostly kept possession well.
Not saying much at all, but it was his first competitive game for us in a team not playing well at all. Let's judge him beside somebody like Di Maria.
I'm really excited to see him in the same midfield as Blind/Di Maria.
- Status