adamwest
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Was reading the match report in the times today and they singled out Anderson for having a bit of a mare. Thought it quite strange because from what I saw he seemed to be doing quite well.
Ideally you'd want to earn it with his performances when he does get chances, but he's so up and down it's hard to know where he's going to end up. Some weeks he looks a brilliant player and others he seems to struggle with the basics of midfield play. I'm not at all convinced by the defensive side of his game yet.I don't see the point in keeping him here if we don't do this. If we play him most weeks and he doesn't show improvement I think it should be fairly clear that he isn't quite going to cut it here.
He started out awfully but I thought he really grew (into the game lulz) as the game went on and our play was going through him IMO. I was satisfied with both him and Cleverley given it was a weakened team we fielded. Fletcher was the weak link for me, literally.Was reading the match report in the times today and they singled out Anderson for having a bit of a mare. Thought it quite strange because from what I saw he seemed to be doing quite well.
You wont get any arguments from me if you're suggesting we get a proper top quality CM in, we've all shouted our throats sore over that during the summer."Finally looking good"?
Good enough to be a valuable squad player for us, yes, but far from good enough to command a regular starting role for Manchester United, one of the 5 or 6 indisputably elite football clubs on the planet.
I thought my post was clear enough but let me try making the point another way. We all agree Ando can be a better player than he has shown over the last two months and, actually, over the last four years, right? Right. So, I absolutely support giving him a solid run over the next six weeks to show us what he's got. If he comes good, we're all good as we can know that part of our midfield problem is solved. But if he continues to play the way he's played so far this season is anyone going to seriously argue that we've solved part of our midfield problem and that Ando is right up there, somewhere at least, among the best in the prem? I don't think so. And if what we've seen already is the best we're going to get with Ando, does it really makes sense to the club and to Ando himself to keep him on the roster as a squad man for the next 5-6 seasons? I don't think so.
United have incredible depth in the squad. Most clubs would love to have a player of Ando's quality coming off the bench. United's problem, however, is a lack of midfield quality in its starting XI. It is far from obvious that Ando has the kind of quality that United can build its midfield around. Maybe he does, which is why I completely endorse giving him his shot with a string of a dozen or so matches where there can be no excuses about chopping and changing the XI and the like. But if it doesn't work Ando has to go back to being a squad man or on the auction block.
Like everyone else here, I become attached in some way to our players. But if it's not working out for Player X (such as Nani), hard decisions have to be made.
How many of the other CMs we have do you think are good enough to start for the elite clubs of this world? Names please and Do you suggest we sell all those who dont tick the box?It seems most of us are converging on agreement: Give Ando a run of games and see what he can do with the chance. How many games, however, before we throw our hands up in the air, is a question I don't have an answer to. 4, 6, 10? Don't forget we're chasing a prem trophy so there's not a lot of room for sympathy if things aren't going right for him...and for United.
I wouldn't go so far as to describe his performance last night as a "mare" but it certainly was forgettable. The sooner forgotten, the better. But it was one of those games that we had no intention of winning against an oppoonent who was desperate for a win. So it wouldn't be fair to judge Ando too harshly.
Exactly. Thats what am saying. We have players at the club who have it in them to be very good, you cannot simply sell them because they arent there already. Thats not how it works. We have no one(maybe Carrick) who's good enough to start at CM for the best clubs in the world. Doesnt mean we sell them all. Why a different rule for Ando then as some are suggesting? What we can and should have done quite some time back is to buy a CM who's top quality already to allow us to nurture these players without compromising on quality. We havent done that though for some reason but that isnt going to be addressed by selling what we have,I guess with us we have players on the up and players on the decline. The players on the up - Clev, Anderson, Powell - could become elite level midfielders, though they are at different stages of their ascent, with different likelihoods of making it. The players on the decline were once definitely good enough but no longer are.
And then you have our one midfielder who is at the peak of his powers: Carrick. Who is a good player, but no, not at the level you would expect to see for an omnipresent in our team.
So in answer to your question, Varun, I would say nobody, but a couple have the potential to get there in the coming years.
I may be the only here to hold this view, but I believe Carrick has done a very nice job for us the last five or six seasons. And at times, he's actually been sensational. But at the very least, he does a quietly effective job, neither disgracing himself nor showering himself in glory. Ruling out Barcelona, Real and Bayern of course, I'd say Carrick would get a hard look by the likes of Chelsea (better than Mikel IMHO), City (better than Barry IMHO) and Arsenal (not better than Wilshere, but Carrick would comfortably settle in under Wenger).How many of the other CMs we have do you think are good enough to start for the elite clubs of this world? Names please and Do you suggest we sell all those who dont tick the box?
Sir Alex had an opportunity after the Chelsea COC game considering that was probably the best I've seen Anderson in a long time but for some reason Sir Alex has been very reluctant to play him the EPL.Ideally you'd want to earn it with his performances when he does get chances, but he's so up and down it's hard to know where he's going to end up. Some weeks he looks a brilliant player and others he seems to struggle with the basics of midfield play. I'm not at all convinced by the defensive side of his game yet.
Which of our players "disgraces themselves" at the very least?But at the very least, he does a quietly effective job, neither disgracing himself nor showering himself in glory.
Carrick of last season was very good, true. Not shooting the lights out, spank-my-ass-and-call-me-Judy great. But very good.@ adebesi
Carrick of last season, IMO is very good for an omnipresent player in a top team. But, this year his form has dramatically decreased.
It wouldn't hurt to have another well-rounded midfielder with strong defensive attributes. Not sure if Fletcher can fulfill that but I was hoping he could.Carrick of last season was very good, true. Not shooting the lights out, spank-my-ass-and-call-me-Judy great. But very good.
Let's put it this way, I think most teams at our level have better midfielders than Carrick on their books. But then again, not many have defenders as good as ours. Or Rooney.
To be fair, I have no complaints about Carrick at all, only yesterday I was being mocked for sticking up for him. I do think it is a problem that he is our best midfielder though. That cannot be healthy for a team hoping to win the league, setting aside our CL ambitions.
Kagawa isnt a CM.I may be the only here to hold this view, but I believe Carrick has done a very nice job for us the last five or six seasons. And at times, he's actually been sensational. But at the very least, he does a quietly effective job, neither disgracing himself nor showering himself in glory. Ruling out Barcelona, Real and Bayern of course, I'd say Carrick would get a hard look by the likes of Chelsea (better than Mikel IMHO), City (better than Barry IMHO) and Arsenal (not better than Wilshere, but Carrick would comfortably settle in under Wenger).
Cleverley is still relatively new to the first team. He has to be judged somewhat differently than Ando, who's been on the first team for four or five years. But no, Cleverley would not push aside Xavi, Iniesta, Ozil, Modric, Mata, Hazard, Silva, Cleverley or Cazorla.
Giggs and Scholes fall into a different bucket completely. But a fair assessment of Scholes in the second half of the 11/12 season is that he was arguably the English prem's top midfielder. Not today, however, as Father Time shows no mercy whatsoever.
Kagawa? I suppose he's technicallly listed as a forward but I consider him a midfielder. Sure, he'd get a sniff from all the top clubs. Barca and Real are already amply stocked with some of the top midfielders we will ever see in our lifetimes, but Kagawa surely would raise eyebrows at Chelsea and City.
I'm a huge fan of Nick Powell, about whom I will be sharing a new post from strettynews shortly. Suffice it to say that Powell has already shown brilliance in his short time in a red shirt already. You want to be cautious in your praise of teenagers but since only a thousand or so people on the planet are aware of the caf it's probably safe to say that we may be seeing the early days of a United legend.
Ando? We've been waiting for what seems like an eternity for a run of good performances and just haven't see it yet. We're all willing to wait longer, but not for another eternity.
It's been said a few times before but not really of late; Carrick for me needs a consistent partner.@ adebesi
Carrick of last season, IMO is very good for an omnipresent player in a top team. But, this year his form has dramatically decreased.
Let's see here a little:Let's put it this way, I think most teams at our level have better midfielders than Carrick on their books. But then again, not many have defenders as good as ours. Or Rooney.
In fairness, Ando looked absolutely fecked when he was subbed. He was practically begging to come off. Perhaps he wasn't ready for another game so soon after?Sir Alex had an opportunity after the Chelsea COC game considering that was probably the best I've seen Anderson in a long time but for some reason Sir Alex has been very reluctant to play him the EPL.
I said most of those teams have better midfielders than Carrick. So from Madrid I would say Alonso, from City I would say Toure, from Chelsea I would say Ramires, etc etc.Let's see here a little:
Madrid - Khedira
Barca - Busquets
City - Barry, Garcia
Chevski - Mikel
Juve - Vidal
Bayern - Matrinez
are players who play in Carrick's position in other big clubs. Only Busquets is clearly better than Carrick, while Carrick is better than most of others.
Talking about Carrick of last year.
Fair enough. Misinterpreted it for midfielders in his position.I said most of those teams have better midfielders than Carrick. So from Madrid I would say Alonso, from City I would say Toure, from Chelsea I would say Ramires, etc etc.
Maybe it just shows that he's not really up to the task. We can't put everything down to injuries.I still think Anderson has it in him to be the main man in our midfield. He will go down as a late bloomer if it happens. Given how long he has been with us, and the ability he had when he arrived, it is astonishing in some ways we are still having these debates about him. It just goes to show how appalling his luck has been with injuries.
Jumping to conclusions? I think we're past that stage now.I'd like to see him have a run of prem games before jumping to conclusions on him. He was excellent against a good Chelsea side away from home but needs to be producing those performances regularly if he wants to make it with us as a first team player. I agree with those slating his fitness, it's shocking for a top level footballer and not really acceptable. Home to QPR this weekend should be a perfect opportunity to kick-start his season and I hope SAF picks him.
Maybe. But considering he has had those injuries there is still a chance. That's as far as I would go, I think most others too. Not saying he will make it. But there's a chance. There is hope.Maybe it just shows that he's not really up to the task. We can't put everything down to injuries.
Not this season as he hasn't had a chance.Jumping to conclusions? I think we're past that stage now.
get outta here you!Let's see here a little:
Madrid - Khedira
Barca - Busquets
City - Barry, Garcia
Chevski - Mikel
Juve - Vidal
Bayern - Matrinez
are players who play in Carrick's position in other big clubs. Only Busquets is clearly better than Carrick, while Carrick is better than most of others.
Talking about Carrick of last year.
I know what you mean, but he's had periods without injury. I'm just still not seeing a player that can dominate a midfield really. As my old man always says, he plays as though he's having a knock about in the parkHe's barely had a consistent run without injuries in his time at the club pocco. Surely you accept that it plays a huge part?
True. There's probably a reason for that. I remember a few years ago Fergie said he's Scholes' replacement, now he gives that tag to Powell and doesn't seem to really trust Anderson. I can understand why too.Not this season as he hasn't had a chance.
He's such a legend. I just wish he was better at football.Anderson could steal my sandwiches and I'd still love him.
He's the only one of our CMs that actually drives on with the ball and tries to make things happen on his own. Knock about isnt how i'd describe him. And yeah, he's not yet ready to dominate midfields. none of our CMs are.I know what you mean, but he's had periods without injury. I'm just still not seeing a player that can dominate a midfield really. As my old man always says, he plays as though he's having a knock about in the park
Yeah the change in role wouldnt have done his progress much good. That said, for a player that played a role much further up the pitch, he isnt very productive in the final 3rd. Looks at his best when he drives on from deep.Fergie seeing in him potential to be Scholes replacement and forcing him to change his game to adapt to that ridiculous expectation is one of the reasons Anderson flopped.
No doubt about that. Spot the Maradonesque run at 0:45 (if you haven't seen it before, it's missing in many of his highlights videos).Yeah the change in role wouldnt have done his progress much good. That said, for a player that played a role much further up the pitch, he isnt very productive in the final 3rd. Looks at his best when he drives on from deep.
Ramires? best in England. Better than Yaya Toure? ha ha ha, feck me. One of Chelsea's weak links. Not "very good" at anything except running.Definitely. For me he is the best midfielder in England right now, and is very good at everything.
Bollox again. It's obvious you just simply aren't a fan of Ando. If you think a fit Anderson wouldn't be in and around the top teams in England you're very mistaken.Barry and Milner are there to do a specific job that Anderson couldn't do. Not as talented, but there you go.