Great point. The only thing I would temper it with is Onanas Zlatan like arrogance combined with his poor start worries me. Eva and Vidic were not that
24
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Clean sheets
- 12
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 6
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
People who've never played in goal or just have no clue.
But that's what DDG would have done.
Maybe he could have started higher and claimed it around the edge of the box, but there's always chance with the bounce just outside the box that it's awkward to claim, he ends up missing it and looks like an even bigger clown. Especially with Dalot and Zaha closing in on it.
Once he doesn't come for that ball the defender has to deal with it, he doesn't do anything. Onana steps off his line to close the angle for the shot, which he absolutely has to do. The massive deflection off Dalot is just bad luck.
2nd and 3rd goals he doesn't have much blame, he sells himself on the 3rd but he's taking a chance that Icardi will go low and he gets done. It's poor.
The pass that led to the penalty and red card was shockingly bad.
I'd happily have him back over Sommer.
In my opinion, with your current defence any keeper would be a Taibi for you
To me, Onana's mentality seems to be one of his strongest points, and he'll need that if he's going to turn it around here. A lot of keepers have that kind of arrogance, including some of the greats. Peter Schmeichel was an absolute wanker. Neuer seems the same.
Won't matter if he keeps chucking the ball in the net, of course, but he doesn't seem the type that's going to go into his shell and meekly lose all confidence.
Sure, you are entitled to your own opinion, including the one about Onana being the new Yashin too.
Self convincing is such a powerful skill
Ah yes, forgot the two last ones you mention. The save against Fati was good - I'd agree with that, but isn't it still something you would expect him to save?
The difference with De Gea’s poor start was there were flashes of his shot stopping ability, he was 19, with a slight stature for a premiership goalkeeper. His weakness was on crosses and corners where his confidence lacked. This improved with experience and gaining muscle.
The difference is Onana has arrived at £60 million as an apparent finished article at the peak of his career aged 27. His weaknesses haven’t been due to inexperience or an underdeveloped body due to his age. His weaknesses have been erratic performances, a critical point for the last man between the ball and the goal line, his decision making and his lack of awareness like the mistake last night.
They really are two very different scenarios, that can’t be explained simply as “De Gea had a tough start as well” you’re missing out many important factors in that comparison.
A better comparison, but still far from perfect because of their playing position, would be that Onana would be equivalent to signing Harry Kane as a striker, while De Gea was the Hoijlund option, an obvious talent with bags of potential, but with patience required as he is still developing.
Onana has the confidence of Zlatan, hopefully that helps him through, because he currently has the performance levels of a Taibi, with the added extra that his passing play that was lauded by many at best slows our game down and allows the opposition to easily reset formation against us when we are in possession, or his long balls are no better than De Gea or many other keepers I’ve seen.
I'm not comparing him with De Gea as a player....
I'm comparing how Onana should be managed in this situation, which should be how De Gea was managed with his shaky start.
I know you are obviously a massive De Gea fan, but try not to get so defensive so quickly before understanding the point.
Agree with this 100%. First one, either come out and punch the ball (not player, mind) when it's still in the air, as he could have, or stay on your line as long as Dalot and Zaha are battling for the ball. Staying in no man's land as he did, will do him no favours.
Third goal he makes it far too easy - it's actually a very poor finish from Icardi.
You honestly think he made the right decision staying half-way between the ball, basically ball watching, and the goalline? The way he positioned himself, he's too close to react, and he's too easy to chip - both happened. Either challenge for the ball or stay on your line. Basic goalkeeping.
I'm not missing out on anything because I'm not delving down to comparing the two players like you are suggesting I am. I'm simply saying that Onana should be taken out of the team like De Gea was when he struggled at the start. What De Gea's struggles were I didn't mention and couldn't care less. The fact is, the best course of action should be removing him from the team for now, which happened to De Gea. Which was the point I made. Nothing more, nothing less.
Really?
His head went when he got chipped in the pre season friendly and he has never been right since.
Did it feck. He didn't gain much muscle and was still atrocious on corners and crosses his whole time here.
He has given himself an uphill battle. We will see how he deals with it, but it's been a ropey start.
He seems too emotional to me. I know some people like the fact that he wears his heart on his sleeve and acknowledges his mistakes, etc, but I’d honesty prefer my goalkeeper to be an unfeeling robot who can quickly put his mistakes behind him. The fact is that any GK will make mistakes, and a disproportionate number of those mistakes will probably result in goals - that’s the nature of the position. A good GK can’t let that affect them.
Bloody awful signing.
Take a big £££ loss and get rid.
Take a big £££ loss and get rid.
This is true. DDG was crap at crosses and commanding his penalty area. He was always hesitant to close down an attacker through on goal and seemed rooted to the spot, and he was poor with his feet and distribution. He was however a world class shot stopper.
This doesn’t mean Onana is the better option. He is very good with distribution especially long passes, hence why ETH brought him in as he obviously wanted us to be a fast transition team. But Onana is poor at everything else it seems.
So it isn’t a case of DDG or Onana, the answer is neither of them.
I was a massive DDG fan from when he first signed and the username is a leftover from that time. I appreciate this makes it odd when I discuss Onana or DDG towards the end.
That being said I agreed 100% it was time to move DDG on. My issue is that Onana just fails on too many of the basics of a goalkeeper for me and that's nothing to do with previous allegiances.
He looks sluggish, he looks absolutely clueless on 1 on 1's ( I'm a goalkeeper at amateur level and he is a perfect example of why you shouldn't over commit early), his shot stopping ability appears thoroughly average if not below, his suppposed command of the box and sweeping ability have been no where to be seen, his supposed ball playing ability no where to be seen (in fact the opposite based on some of his howlers already) and he just seems overall an erratic, unconventional goalkeeper.
Onana has come in with a big reputation and a bigger ego yet has been absolute dog shite outside of a couple of fairly routine save.
In situations one on one he is atrocious. He doesn't rush out quickly and then makes himself smaller than he is (and he is a big guy).
I'm not really sure who you're arguing with? I'm not backing or excusing Onana......It's almost like you have still missed what I said. I'm advocating for him to be removed from the team.
Onana is nothing better in claiming crosses. He also stays on the line every single time.
Oh I know, I firmly believe DDG just had to go. But this pile on was always going to happen as soon as he made a few mistakes.
I think he's just having a bad moment in a make shift unit, where every little mistake is ending up in a goal. It takes time to build up confidence and momentum as a unit, it's been a changing back 5 all season. He certainly hasn't helped himself with his decision making at times, you should expect better from an experienced player. But the reality is there's only really been a handful of goals where he could and should have done better.
Time will tell whether he was the right option or not, in the long run I think he'll be fine once there is a more settled backline in front of him. But maybe a spell on the bench will make him consider his overall performance levels up to this point.
Standards. Should be dropped for that, but as with De Gea countless times he won't be.
I dont buy the whole ball playing GK thing in the first place.
Im willing to give the Turkish guy a chance.
Onana just isnt good enough for me and I dont think giving him time will change that. He just seems as a bad shotstopper.
Im willing to give the Turkish guy a chance.
Onana just isnt good enough for me and I dont think giving him time will change that. He just seems as a bad shotstopper.
Dalot was certainly at fault big time for the goal, but as a keeper, and let's be honest they are a protected species in the game, he needed to be claiming that ball.
A bouncing ball in his box, he could have claimed it, if he wasn't going to do that then get back onto your line in order to anticipate another bounce, unfortunately he did neither and paid for it.
It's easy to say that all in hindsight admittedly, but a keeper should be and needs to be the best decision maker on the pitch.
The third again it's a defensive error but also a keeping error, just stand up and make yourself as big as possible, don't fall down early, it only then makes it easier for the striker.
Where does he claim it, at what point? The first bounce that's outside the box or the second bounce? It was a nothing long ball that first bounces is 6 or 7 yards outside the box. That shouldn't be allowed to happen, the ball shouldn't even bounce once.
It's only on here you see people calling a keepers failure to deal with a 1v1 or save a penalty a goalkeeping error. He made the finish easy for Icardi, but 7/8 times out of ten that's a goal regardless of what the keeper does.
I didn’t know a great deal about him before he came here. Obviously, I had heard of him, but never really watched him. I asked a few people on here about him just to see what type of GK he was because I was a little skeptical about the signing. But everyone seemed to think he was a genuine world-class signing.
Now, he’s only been here for a very short time. That's important to say as things can change. But I just don’t see it with him at the moment. Just assessing him as a pure shot-stopper, etc., he seems to be very average and quite unorthodox even when he does make some saves. He comes across as a bit of a flapper. De Gea at his best (and any great keeper, really) had a certain composure and precision when it came to his shot-stopping, if that makes sense. Onana seems to be a bit frantic, almost.
But the most disappointing aspect of all has to be his distribution and his patrolling of the area just outside the box. This was the ONE thing that nearly everyone who purported to know a lot about him said he was world-class at. This was the aspect of his game that was going to be transformative. But I’m not getting it. His distribution (outside one or two examples) hasn't been anything special at all. In fact, I often find him annoyingly slow on the ball. He holds it for way too long. Now that’s not just his problem as we’re not exactly functioning great as a team at the moment, but I’m really not seeing it with him.
And the one thing that De Gea got hammered for was the fact that he was always glued to his line. Well, this guy appears to be doing exactly the same. So is this now a coaching issue? Because apparently, this is where he excelled. In fact, the only time I can remember him being out in a position where you would almost consider him a deep-lying CDM, or a CB, was that game where he got chipped from halfway (can’t remember the game) and people blamed him for that, as opposed to Dalot who was really at fault. I didn’t mind Onana being out by there, because that’s why I thought we bought him. But I’ve seen very little of it since.
Anyway, I really hope he does turn into the keeper that many on here thought he would be. I just worry with our track record that we’ve invested another chunk of money into an important position and fecked it again. I really hope I’m wrong.
Now, he’s only been here for a very short time. That's important to say as things can change. But I just don’t see it with him at the moment. Just assessing him as a pure shot-stopper, etc., he seems to be very average and quite unorthodox even when he does make some saves. He comes across as a bit of a flapper. De Gea at his best (and any great keeper, really) had a certain composure and precision when it came to his shot-stopping, if that makes sense. Onana seems to be a bit frantic, almost.
But the most disappointing aspect of all has to be his distribution and his patrolling of the area just outside the box. This was the ONE thing that nearly everyone who purported to know a lot about him said he was world-class at. This was the aspect of his game that was going to be transformative. But I’m not getting it. His distribution (outside one or two examples) hasn't been anything special at all. In fact, I often find him annoyingly slow on the ball. He holds it for way too long. Now that’s not just his problem as we’re not exactly functioning great as a team at the moment, but I’m really not seeing it with him.
And the one thing that De Gea got hammered for was the fact that he was always glued to his line. Well, this guy appears to be doing exactly the same. So is this now a coaching issue? Because apparently, this is where he excelled. In fact, the only time I can remember him being out in a position where you would almost consider him a deep-lying CDM, or a CB, was that game where he got chipped from halfway (can’t remember the game) and people blamed him for that, as opposed to Dalot who was really at fault. I didn’t mind Onana being out by there, because that’s why I thought we bought him. But I’ve seen very little of it since.
Anyway, I really hope he does turn into the keeper that many on here thought he would be. I just worry with our track record that we’ve invested another chunk of money into an important position and fecked it again. I really hope I’m wrong.
He give Maguire a bollicking in preseason, we thought great, finally a keeper that patrols his area with authority. That was a cheap shot at an already underfire player in hindsight. In big games where has he been racing out to give McT or Casemiro a bollicking as they jog back while other teams players and in some instances referees are moving quicker. Severe lack of leadership in this team.
After watching him casually walk back to his goal in the last min after we lost possession during our corner, he need not open his mouth ever again. He's lucky the Galatasaray players didn't fancy a go from the halfway line.
Watch the first goal back and see where the initial bounce is, no keeper in world football is coming for that when there's a defender there who can/should just head it away
Onana has a strange penchant for being in no man’s land. His positioning on the first goal was a horror show. You can make a case for staying rooted or coming out, but you can’t make a case for how he did neither. Enough has been said about the second goal. On the third goal, a keeper will normally get beaten in that situation, but he actually makes himself smaller and made it wary for himself to be beaten.
We gave up be honest and acknowledge this was a poor signing.
We gave up be honest and acknowledge this was a poor signing.
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Couldn't have said better. The whole defensive setup has been a mess and we have hardly managed to start with the same back 4 players in consecutive games.
It bounced outside the box, then just inside, then on the penalty spot, Onana could have claimed at any point inside his box, it looked like he was going to but didn't react and instead stood in no man's land.
Sorry, but a keeper who makes it easier for a striker to score is making a mistake, as that is the complete opposite of what a keeper should be doing.
He needed to stand up and spread, rather than fall like he did, it's quite simply poor keeping, similar to the game against Forest.
By your rationale no keeper need bother going out for one on ones ever or stand in the goal for a penalty, as both are heavily weighted towards the striker scoring?!! What a bizarre statement
It bounced 25 yards out and then just outside the penalty spot. There's not really a point where he can claim that ball once the first bounce is allowed. That ball should never bounce, Varane as the CB has to deal with that there, it's travelled 60 yards. He watches it sail over his head and watches Dalot faff about. Onana's positioning is fine if Zaha gets a clean shot away, the angle is closed. The huge deflection and bounce off Dalot means he's fecked. If he stays back Zaha has the whole goal to aim for.
As for standing up and spreading himself? How does that work? You can't both stand up and spread yourself at the same time.
But, anyway that's not what I said, you're just making stupid shit up. I've said he's made it easy for him, but those chances invariably end up in goals regardless of what the keeper does. There's no logic in assuming that means keeper should do nothing to affect the situation. Of course he should, he could come further out and close down the angle bit more. But, he anticipated a low shot and Icardi played him and he looks like an ass. It happens, what went on before the ball got to that point was worse.
Every one on one, he's on his arse before the shot is even taken. It's scandalously bad.
For all DDG's howlers, and there were plenty, and discomfort with the ball at his feet, he still remained a colossus in 1 v 1 situations.
But this lad, holy f**k! Did Erik not know this from coaching him at Ajax or was it deemed an acceptable trade off for his Pirlo-esque passing skills?!
For all DDG's howlers, and there were plenty, and discomfort with the ball at his feet, he still remained a colossus in 1 v 1 situations.
But this lad, holy f**k! Did Erik not know this from coaching him at Ajax or was it deemed an acceptable trade off for his Pirlo-esque passing skills?!
The last Bastian of someone whose point cannot be proved....just talk down what the other person says
We'll agree to disagree, I just find it interesting how there's now a load of media, reports and questions surrounding Onana, for someone that apparently didn't make a mistake last night, does that not seem strange to you?!?!!
I'll give you a hint:
Two of those goals featured GK errors alongside defensive ineptitudes, it's clear as day and most can see it.
I really like Onana's character. What a likeable bloke. But we signed the wrong keeper. We need a shot stopper extraordinaire, like we had in De Gea.
I'm not a goalie but that seemed pretty poor technique on that breakaway, where he kind of fell to his knees and threw one paw up. Weird stuff.
I'm not a goalie but that seemed pretty poor technique on that breakaway, where he kind of fell to his knees and threw one paw up. Weird stuff.
I've acknowledged he could have done better and made mistakes. I just don't buy into the media over drive, they want an easy target because they just love it that DDG is still out of a job and the new guy can't catch a break. They juat can't be arsed actually looking at what has happened, they just look at the finish for the goal and say keeper should have got that, but ignore everything that led to that point.The last Bastian of someone whose point cannot be proved....just talk down what the other person says
We'll agree to disagree, I just find it interesting how there's now a load of media, reports and questions surrounding Onana, for someone that apparently didn't make a mistake last night, does that not seem strange to you?!?!!
I'll give you a hint:
Two of those goals featured GK errors alongside defensive ineptitudes, it's clear as day and most can see it.
Ignore Varane ducking and letting a long ball over his head, ignore Dalot's pathetic defending. Ignore Amrabat and Lindeloaf getting dragged out of position on a simple throw in, ignore the midfielders not tracking runners (a constant theme this season). Ignore Amrabat playing a stupid pass and then keeping everyone onside, but focus on the bit Onana did wrong.
You claim he should have claimed the first ball? Where and at what point? Should a high ball bouncing 25 yards from goal not be met by a defenders head rather than expecting the keeper to claim it on the second or third bounce?
I'd also be interested if you could explain how you can both standup and spread yourself.