[ti vu]

The people doubling down on this idea that Onana makes no difference to our build up play and beating the press are going to look ridiculous at some point. I reckon deep down they know it’s an absurd point, but they’re just capitalising on this moment of chaos to bask in glee.

If anyone seriously thinks that how we’re playing now is how we’re always going to play with Onana here, they’re living in dreamland. This is a moment where the defensive lineup is decimated and ever-changing, the midfield is trying to play in a new shape, and disastrous results are killing morale across the board. And the change in goalkeeper style is dramatic, even in a normal scenario you’d expect some adjustment before things click.

If you really think that’s the ideal time to judge a keeper, especially in his first 10 games, you’ve lost the plot.

Imagine if De Gea’s first 10 games defined his United career. He couldn’t even keep Lindegaard out.

Not everyone saying he would make no difference. Against Bayern, Arsenal, even Tottenham... he showed glimpses of his quality with the ball. The issue here is not everyone playing like that. Right now, if we're opposition managers, we would think the best way to play against us is just ignoring Onana when he has the ball, and focus on man marking and reduce space at their back. GK is not that influential to how well their team attack from that position. We're not that good at moving the ball to break team down and prevent opposition counter, coming out of their defensive shape, even if we risk pushing the defensive line high. So our strongest weapon (counter) being contained. The supposed improvement Onana bring doesn't truly elevate the team, yet there is insecure feeling creeping in.

The comparison with young DDG situation as previously explained is silly. Taking over from VDS of course was a big expectation. Young GK lacking experience to boost. The standard back there where we were naturally expected title challenge coming into season was another different ballgame than nowadays.

So,s people made out replacimg the over the hill DDG of past seasons would be a piece of cake. You also have ETH who coached Onana at Ajax for a few years, he should have known Onana strength and weaknesses to cover and optimize where it fits. A GK with experience and supposed entering his prime years. It's just simply terrible comparison. It's more a case of Barthez, VDS coming in and expected to hit the road running to an acceptable level.

The scary thing about our current situation is if we try the dropping young DDG approach, we either play our new Turkish GK who has no PL experience, or Heaton who is over the hill, and very shite with his distribution. It's the case that ETH put all his eggs into Onana basket, and didn't prepare a Lindegaard for this transition.

 

[Cantonalegod]

Fun fact he wasn’t the worst GK on the pitch yesterday.

Really pleased about this.

We have a better keeper than the one that signed for Brentford on a free, and is valued at €3.5m on Transfermarkt.

Excellent news!

 

[Brwned]

Not everyone saying he would make no difference. Against Bayern, Arsenal, even Tottenham... he showed glimpses of his quality with the ball. The issue here is not everyone playing like that. Right now, if we're opposition managers, we would think the best way to play against us is just ignoring Onana when he has the ball, and focus on man marking and reduce space at their back. GK is not that influential to how well their team attack from that position. We're not that good at moving the ball to break team down and prevent opposition counter, coming out of their defensive shape, even if we risk pushing the defensive line high. So our strongest weapon (counter) being contained. The supposed improvement Onana bring doesn't truly elevate the team, yet there is insecure feeling creeping in.

The comparison with young DDG situation as previously explained is silly. Taking over from VDS of course was a big expectation. Young GK lacking experience to boost. The standard back there where we were naturally expected title challenge coming into season was another different ballgame than nowadays.

So,s people made out replacimg the over the hill DDG of past seasons would be a piece of cake. You also have ETH who coached Onana at Ajax for a few years, he should have known Onana strength and weaknesses to cover and optimize where it fits. A GK with experience and supposed entering his prime years. It's just simply terrible comparison. It's more a case of Barthez, VDS coming in and expected to hit the road running to an acceptable level.

The scary thing about our current situation is if we try the dropping young DDG approach, we either play our new Turkish GK who has no PL experience, or Heaton who is over the hill, and very shite with his distribution. It's the case that ETH put all his eggs into Onana basket, and didn't prepare a Lindegaard for this transition.

You read into the comparison what you wanted to, and refuted a point I didn’t make.

Let’s be honest, upgrading a past it De Gea should be a piece of cake. And I loved de Gea at his peak, I don’t agree with any of the revisionism about him since.

For £50m, it’s a completely reasonable expectation for him to come straight in and nail things down. And he hasn’t. I agree we’ve derived very little value from his ability on the ball. At the same time it’s not at all unusual for a great player to struggle in the beginning, and it’s easy to jump to conclusions.

Evra was great at Monaco, I expected him to slot straight in, but he didn’t. There was lots of talk about him lacking in the fundamentals too. It’s silly to judge players based on a snapshot in time, as if they’re static images that are always in perfect view. That’s just overestimating one’s own ability to judge things. People get it wrong all the time and then forget about it the very next time. It’s a fun delusion as a football fan, it drives a lot of discussions, but it is a delusion.

 

[ti vu]

You read into the comparison what you wanted to, and refuted a point I didn’t make.

Let’s be honest, upgrading a past it De Gea should be a piece of cake. And I loved de Gea at his peak, I don’t agree with any of the revisionism about him since.

For £50m, it’s a completely reasonable expectation for him to come straight in and nail things down. And he hasn’t. I agree we’ve derived very little value from his ability on the ball. At the same time it’s not at all unusual for a great player to struggle in the beginning, and it’s easy to jump to conclusions.

Evra was great at Monaco, I expected him to slot straight in, but he didn’t. There was lots of talk about him lacking in the fundamentals too. It’s silly to judge players based on a snapshot in time, as if they’re static images that are always in perfect view. That’s just overestimating one’s own ability to judge things. People get it wrong all the time and then forget about it the very next time. It’s a fun delusion as a football fan, it drives a lot of discussions, but it is a delusion.

How many experienced GK struggled at his new clubs, and turned around? Unlike outfield player, GK is judged differently, and more cut throat competition between GK in the same team. Teams simply don't change GK especially during game and disrupt the team so the back up GK can have minutes to stay sharp and develop. The aim for when there are two good GKs in a team would be to eventually establish a superior one and move on the other because the other is too good to stay as back up and keep harmony in the dressing room. An outfield player can be moved into different positions to get game time, experience. Even outfield player playing goal. Outside of Barthez in preseason, how often a GK was subbed on as outfield player?

If we play a game naming outfield players and for GK turnaround, it's not even a fair game. And remember the point I raised about Onana played under ETH. It's even rarer for a player coming with his manager to a new club and struggle.

Evra reputation was never that of one of the best LB in the world when he first moved to us. His transfer fee reflected that. Whereas Onana fee is regarding him as one of the best GK at the moment. That's not even orange and apple comparison. You're comparing a fruit to a metal.

 

[Red00012]

Really pleased about this.

We have a better keeper than the one that signed for Brentford on a free, and is valued at €3.5m on Transfermarkt.

Excellent news!

I was trying to lighten the mood here with all the over the top comments . He hasn’t had a perfect start but neither has any outfield player but because he’s the last line of defence his mistakes are obviously more damaging.

I think he’ll come good . I trust in him .

 

[akromon]

I have a feeling he'll come good too. He looks a completely different player to the ultra confident one we saw in champs league.

David Raya made similar passing mistakes yesterday and got away with it and kept playing that way because there's a lot of reliability in the way the defence in front of him passes. I suspect with a more stable defence and a better understanding/communication with the currently injured players Onana will regain that confidence.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I was just watching these highlights and Ederson was absolutely pathetic in this game. He was into his 3rd full season with City. I'm sure Onana will come good with time.

 

[lex talionis]

I was just watching these highlights and Ederson was absolutely pathetic in this game. He was into his 3rd full season with City. I'm sure Onana will come good with time.

Agreed. It may take three seasons, by which he’ll be 30, but Onana will eventually come good.

 

[nmm85]

I'm don't have privileges to post media but thought the latest Tifo video was a pretty decent explanation on Onana's performances this season. Can someone please add it here? (Title:
Have Manchester United bought the wrong goalkeeper?)

Its suggested that we rotate goalkeepers depending on our opposition but they give examples of Brighton and Arsenal who do it, but have far better back up keepers than we have. So seems a bit ill-informed or negligent suggestion. We were linked with the Brighton goalkeeper which really makes me question even more why we bought Bayindir.

We can't overly judge Onana until we have a near full strength side and we can start get some consistency.

 

[JPRouve]

Onana has no excuses, nearly all his mistakes are due to butter fingers or poor positioning on shots. A full strength team wouldn't affect it. Now I have seen all goalkeepers have that type of moment, even someone like Van der Sar who is remembered as rock solid for United had some very shaky periods with Juventus and a bit with Fulham before regaining form and confidence.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

I'm don't have privileges to post media but thought the latest Tifo video was a pretty decent explanation on Onana's performances this season. Can someone please add it here? (Title:
Have Manchester United bought the wrong goalkeeper?)

Its suggested that we rotate goalkeepers depending on our opposition but they give examples of Brighton and Arsenal who do it, but have far better back up keepers than we have. So seems a bit ill-informed or negligent suggestion. We were linked with the Brighton goalkeeper which really makes me question even more why we bought Bayindir.

We can't overly judge Onana until we have a near full strength side and we can start get some consistency.

Here you go:

 

[Oranges038]

Onana has no excuses, nearly all his mistakes are due to butter fingers or poor positioning on shots. A full strength team wouldn't affect it. Now I have seen all goalkeepers have that type of moment, even someone like Van der Sar who is remembered as rock solid for United had some very shaky periods with Juventus and a bit with Fulham before regaining form and confidence.

I've watched the goals he's conceded and I've come to the conclusion that his positioning and footwork is letting him down badly. It all comes down to how he's moving his feet to shift his weight from right to left / left to right and that is affecting how quickly he can react. Brentford goal is a great example, he goes too far left, but can't go back right because he's taken too big of a step to his left. He's also resting back on his heels a too much.

He really needs to sort his feet out.

 

[Taribo's Gap]

Here you go:

This video is all over the place and tries to be a bit too clever. To start with, the conclusion that rotating is the answer isn't even borne out by the two examples he raises. In the Arsenal case, the video rightly points out that Arteta has not even been rotating. Ramsdale has simply been dropped for now, unless proven otherwise. So how can that be used as an example? In the Brighton case, the video fails to mention that both of their keepers are amongst the worst shot-stoppers in the league this season. So is this a case of De Zerbi strategically rotating to find the optimal keeper to use for a given game, or is he simply trying to find the least shite option? In either case, none of these examples can be said to have worked to "be the answer" because it hasn't been borne out over the course of a season. Does Tifo think they've uncovered some hidden gem of a strategy that managers have simply been ignoring for decades?

Beyond that, it uses outdated data and selectively picks and chooses what players are a fit for Ten Hag's preferred style based on weird criteria. Why would Casemiro not be a fit when ETH has just purchased him for big money last season? Is Amrabat really the preferred option over Casemiro? ETH prefers Sancho over Antony. Huh?

It also doesn't give Onana credit for some of the good passing he has done this season. At times, it has been overshadowed because of his shot-stopping woes, but Onana has actually pinged some really good balls that the forward players have squandered. It hasn't been anywhere near the best demonstration of his capabilities in this regard, but he's still done some good work here and there. Sometimes a team and a keeper are mutually reinforcing, where they each bring out the best in each other. It seems like the opposite with United right now. Onana is causing the defense to be more uncertain and the outfield players are blunting the effectiveness of Onana's passing.

Finally, the video talks about rotating as a transitional solution until ETH can implement his preferred style and the personnel issues are sorted. Looking at United's current goalkeeping personnel, how is that a good proposal for the present moment?

I don't think rotating is the answer. It seems a bit too clever and complicated for a team that does not yet have that level of tactical cohesion and continuity. Onana just has to improve his shotstopping and the rest of the squad has to adjust to his passing and get better at making themselves available for and receiving his balls.

 

[Idxomer]

I've watched the goals he's conceded and I've come to the conclusion that his positioning and footwork is letting him down badly. It all comes down to how he's moving his feet to shift his weight from right to left / left to right and that is affecting how quickly he can react. Brentford goal is a great example, he goes too far left, but can't go back right because he's taken too big of a step to his left. He's also resting back on his heels a too much.

He really needs to sort his feet out.

Not an expert on goalkeeping but the way he uses his hands to save low shots seems all wrong. I think even if he saves the shot against Brentford, he was going to palm it again into a dangerous area.

 

[Oranges038]

Not an expert on goalkeeping but the way he uses his hands to save low shots seems all wrong. I think even if he saves the shot against Brentford, he was going to palm it again into a dangerous area.

Neither am I. But, I can only go on what I see.

A massive part of being able to make saves is to do with how you move your feet. He's not moving his feet quick enough, he has a tendency to plant his feet and rock back onto his heels. We've seen goals where he sets himself and then just sticks to the ground or those ones where he seems to dive after the ball or is slow to get down. Seems to me like his footwork is just off for whatever reason.

 

[roseguy64]

Not an expert on goalkeeping but the way he uses his hands to save low shots seems all wrong. I think even if he saves the shot against Brentford, he was going to palm it again into a dangerous area.

It's part of his technique that he's been using apparently for ages. Coaches tried to change it but his method was faster/better so they left it. His mechanics are just off on execution so it looks worse.

 

[ti vu]

I'm don't have privileges to post media but thought the latest Tifo video was a pretty decent explanation on Onana's performances this season. Can someone please add it here? (Title:
Have Manchester United bought the wrong goalkeeper?)

Its suggested that we rotate goalkeepers depending on our opposition but they give examples of Brighton and Arsenal who do it, but have far better back up keepers than we have. So seems a bit ill-informed or negligent suggestion. We were linked with the Brighton goalkeeper which really makes me question even more why we bought Bayindir.

We can't overly judge Onana until we have a near full strength side and we can start get some consistency.

Even if we match Brighton offer, unlikely that DutchGK would accept to come here as back up. He doesn't want to stall his development as well as his chances to stake claim to Netherland NT no1 shirt for EURO next summer, by sitting on the bench most season because a high profile GK bought for bigger money.

GK can definitely be judged when playing with weak defense/team especially. It's very rare that elite GKs breakthrough from within big clubs. Many gained experience by playing for smaller clubs, or sent on loan to play regularly. Many of these teams are weak defensively compared to the big clubs these GKs later moved to. Ideally GK often needed to be tested at high level in weaker teams before moving to big clubs. When integrated into big clubs, they're expected to deal with the pressure while showing master of GK basic first before X factor ball playing skill. Second choice inexperienced young GKs almost rarely called up for NT in place of veteran journeyman GKs even as third choice GK.


We're almost full strength for our first 2 PL games, and while Onana didn't make direct punished error. His goalkeeping show erratic signs. Wolves uncalled penalty. His weak two hand palming Cunha 55th minute shot. Flat footed for some of Tottenham chances/goal. If you meant his teammates have to be all in form then that just like saying Onana needed the team to carry him.

If a team defend so well and dominate their league like Ajax did under ETH, they had great defensive record that even their second choice GK (Onana missed large part of the last 2 season sat Ajax) rarely required to work, and barely made errors. It was not a better situation to judge that GK true level. What is considered is his work previous with other clubs in his career.

 

[nakpodiareuben]

Some of us talk like onana is 19 or just started his goal keeping career. He has been playing like this for all his career. So long we want to play from the back, we should expect to see some frantic moments. Frantic moments are reasons why you will need a super confident goal keeper. As for his reflex or shot stopping, The entire team lacks confidence. When we win 3-4 straight matches, that confidence will be back

 

[RedUnited86]

2 goalkeepers on show right now that were both significantly cheaper, and better.

 

[DWelbz19]

2 goalkeepers on show right now that were both significantly cheaper, and better.

What? So far I’ve seen Raya boot the ball out of play and Sanchez needlessly run out for a ball down the wing that nearly led to a goal

 

[DWelbz19]

What? So far I’ve seen Raya boot the ball out of play and Sanchez needlessly run out for a ball down the wing that nearly led to a goal

And again - he’s let Mudkip score

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

2 goalkeepers on show right now that were both significantly cheaper, and better.

Yeah Raya has been so much better here...

 

[V.O.]

And again - he’s let Mudkip score

Raya has looked very dodgy plenty of times since he's come in, he's just usually been bailed out by his defence when he's fecked things up.

If we'd actually have signed him, the same people now saying we should have would be wondering why we've got a nervous midget in goal when we could have had the best keeper in last year's CL instead.

 

[RyRy11]

Are people really moaning that we didn't get Raya?

 

[Red Royal]

Not an expert on goalkeeping but the way he uses his hands to save low shots seems all wrong. I think even if he saves the shot against Brentford, he was going to palm it again into a dangerous area.

Yep, Schmeichel spoke a bit on this... and he is an expert.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

2 goalkeepers on show right now that were both significantly cheaper, and better.

Hasn't aged well this one.

 

[V.O.]

2 goalkeepers on show right now that were both significantly cheaper, and better.

This comment gets better as the game goes on.

 

[Litch]

This comment gets better as the game goes on.

Absolutely!!!!!

 

[bond19821982]

This comment gets better as the game goes on.

loving it.

 

[Rockets Redglare]

Are people really moaning that we didn't get Raya?

If they are they’re mental. He’s appalling.

 

[city-puma]

Tbf, this version of Sanchez is a level above Onana at the moment. Hope Onana can show his worth.

 

[Apokalips]

This comment gets better as the game goes on.

Couldn't have scripted this better!

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

More like it, best league game since his first one?

 

[AnotherLondonManc]

Made a real meal of the Brewster shot in the second half but otherwise was terrific with his long passing. Still concerns about his shot stopping ability though. Never looks comfortable unless he's on the ball

 

[Oranges038]

Decent game, some good saves, but he really needs to hold onto some of those shots.

 

[V.O.]

Nice solid game. Here's hoping he strings a few together.

 

[Eugenius]

His handling is proper dodgy. Seems to diving past the ball and not controlling where he parries it.

 

[Alemar]

Once again he guessed direction of the penalty correctly, that’s a good sign. Today’s was unsaveable, though

 

[Wezzaldo]

Made a real meal of the Brewster shot in the second half but otherwise was terrific with his long passing. Still concerns about his shot stopping ability though. Never looks comfortable unless he's on the ball

What??? The ball was moving all over the place. Fair enough criticise when it’s bad, but don’t go looking for mistakes that aren’t there just to put him down.

 

[Solius]

Decent game. Brewster shot was swerving so can be forgiven but he does seem to palm it back out into dangerous areas.