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2016-17 Performances


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SachinJ22

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And you think he can be a world beater based on one good season?
No, I never said that he is a world class player at the moment. I said he could become a world class player, our board and LVG wouldn't spend that much on a young player unless they knew he had the potential. You said age doesn't matter, you can't expect a 21 year old to play like an experienced player. Can you expect Ibra to play like a 21 year old? You talk as if only Martial has been poor for us this season. Even the best players sometimes have bad seasons that doesn't mean they are overrated, according to Martial's last season he has the potential to become a world class. How did you rate him last season?
 

VP89

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No, I never said that he is a world class player at the moment. I said he could become a world class player, our board and LVG wouldn't spend that much on a young player unless they knew he had the potential. You said age doesn't matter, you can't expect a 21 year old to play like an experienced player.
If you read my post again, I said "you think he can be a world beater based on one season?" I never accused you of claiming he is one now. But, to think he could become a world class player based on one season is questionable if you have a problem with me saying he's not that good based on one season too.

I didn't say age doesn't matter in that context. I said "I don't think he's that good. And its not to do with age". In other words, even accounting for his young age, I still don't think he'll be as big a star as we think.

Can you expect Ibra to play like a 21 year old? You talk as if only Martial has been poor for us this season. Even the best players sometimes have bad seasons that doesn't mean they are overrated, according to Martial's last season he has the potential to become a world class. How did you rate him last season?
No I don't. I talk about Martial in a Martial thread. I know others have been poor but they don't have a place in this thread when we're judging individual performances of Anthony Martial.

I thought he did very well. But I know better than to claim a player to be "potential world class" from one good season. Too many attackers have come here for one good year and fizzled back to their actual level - like Santa Cruz, Michu, Robinho etc. Even Malouda had a terrific season of ridiculous stats.

Time is on Martial's side and he obviously looks more equipped than half of my examples - but when everyone is out there saying he can be a world beater based on last season, I'm fully within my right to think he's not that good based on this season.
 

limerickcitykid

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He is a one dimensional player and unless in a team that plays to his strengths and style he'll always be frustrating and poor. He doesn't have the all around game to be world class for me.
 

Adisa

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Bet you didn't stick your neck out and say that last season.
I know right. Where were these guys last season? All of a sudden "he's not that talented, his potential is not that great".
 

limerickcitykid

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Bet you didn't stick your neck out and say that last season.
I never thought he was going to be world class or the future balon dor everyone acted like was a certainty. He is a good player. Capable of being a great one. But he needs to add a hell of a lot to his game to be the best in the world like people said he was a certainty to be. He has pretty much one skill set. A skill he is fantastic at and makes him a great player. Just not world class. I'm certainly glad we have him but we need to change our style to get the best out of him, that is true for many of our attacking players tbf so it isn't even a dig at Martial.
 

SteveW

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His role is unusual at the moment. Lingard seems to have freedom to drift all over the pitch and try to influence the game centrally. Martial seems to stay much wider and focus a lot of his efforts on tracking back. It's hard to compare the performances because they are playing different roles, albeit from the same starting position. No idea whether it's tactical or not.

I think he's a good player and will turn out to be an excellent one. Amazed so many people seem to want to give up on him after one iffy season.
 

SteveW

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Comparing Martial with Adnan and Memphis.:lol:

Martial single handedly carried our attack last season, and while he has been poor by the standards set last season, he has not been abysmal by any means. Pretty normal for youngsters to have below par seasons. 8 goals and 8 assists in 40 apps is a pretty decent output when you look at it.
Yeah. I agree with this to an extent. Expectations seem extremely high. Interesting to compare him to someone like Leroy Sane who's stats aren't as good yet seems to be getting a free pass. I think people need to be a bit more patient. He's done ok this season.
 

Carlsen19

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He was by far our best attacker last season, but that's more down to the fact the others were shite if we're being honest.
 

RedMaestro

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Next season is going to be really interesting to see. Hopefully his form and confidence will be good next season so the rest of the team can benefit from his strenghts.
 

SachinJ22

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Clutching at straws there. Dele Ali's 8 months younger.
So what? Dele Alli is in a different team with a different manager. Most of our forward players expect Ibra have been really inconsistent. Alli wasn't criticised by his manager in public, Alli's number wasn't taken and given to a player who was going to stay at the team for just 1 year, Alli's wife didn't leave him like Martial's wife did. Martial even had his kid taken away from him. Pochettino hasn't rested Alli whenever he has a bad game, Mediocre players aren't getting selected in Tottenham instead of Alli. Martial might be even playing in a position which isn't suited to him. There are always 2 defenders who crowd Martial whenever he gets the ball. Age isn't the only thing that matters. The confidence of the player, the mental health, the confidence of the manager in his player, all of these things matter. But still people are expecting him to play like a world class winger after just 1 season of being with us.
 

SachinJ22

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If you read my post again, I said "you think he can be a world beater based on one season?" I never accused you of claiming he is one now. But, to think he could become a world class player based on one season is questionable if you have a problem with me saying he's not that good based on one season too.

I didn't say age doesn't matter in that context. I said "I don't think he's that good. And its not to do with age". In other words, even accounting for his young age, I still don't think he'll be as big a star as we think.



No I don't. I talk about Martial in a Martial thread. I know others have been poor but they don't have a place in this thread when we're judging individual performances of Anthony Martial.

I thought he did very well. But I know better than to claim a player to be "potential world class" from one good season. Too many attackers have come here for one good year and fizzled back to their actual level - like Santa Cruz, Michu, Robinho etc. Even Malouda had a terrific season of ridiculous stats.

Time is on Martial's side and he obviously looks more equipped than half of my examples - but when everyone is out there saying he can be a world beater based on last season, I'm fully within my right to think he's not that good based on this season.

Why would LVG and the board agree to pay 50 Million for an average player? Let me explain to you one more time, I said he can become a world class player IF the manager gives him confidence,motivates him, trusts him instead of benching him after every bad performance and selecting average players in place of him, stops criticising him in public, stops playing a 35 year old striker every minute of every match, stops using him in dead rubber matches. People are calling Martial overrated based on the last few matches, matches where the team is playing for formality instead of playing to win. Ok fine you want to say he is overrated irrespective of the last season, go ahead call him overrated. Martial will shut the mouths of all his critics and haters here next season and the same people who called him overrated will be praising him and acting like hypocrites.
 

VP89

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Why would LVG and the board agree to pay 50 Million for an average player? Let me explain to you one more time, I said he can become a world class player IF the manager gives him confidence,motivates him, trusts him instead of benching him after every bad performance and selecting average players in place of him, stops criticising him in public, stops playing a 35 year old striker every minute of every match, stops using him in dead rubber matches. People are calling Martial overrated based on the last few matches, matches where the team is playing for formality instead of playing to win. Ok fine you want to say he is overrated irrespective of the last season, go ahead call him overrated. Martial will shut the mouths of all his critics and haters here next season and the same people who called him overrated will be praising him and acting like hypocrites.
You're terribly misguided. It doesn't matter if we sanctioned 60 or 70m for Martial. No one has a crystal ball, he was barely a seasons worth of experience when he came here and a big risk was taken. Your logic is "we paid a lot so he must be good, or he will be good if we keep playing him". That's inherently wrong.

And stop blaming Mourinho for his shite performances, its getting annoying. He's had many chances to perform, Anthony and he hasn't taken them as much this season. If he continues that hel probably be sold because you don't get much time at Manchester United. If you want to be a starter you have to prove yourself in the limited time you have. Mourinho has given Martial a lot of time and he will do the same next year, but if he's shite next year too we have a bigger problem on our hands.

And no, we aren't referring to Martial of late. He's been poor the whole season. We've only seen glimpses of what he can do, but he has broadly been shite from the moment we had our first game.
 

Garethw

scored 25-30 goals a season as a right footed RW
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Why would we sell him?
I personally wouldn't, but I think Mourinho will run out of patience with him. If a big offer comes in for him (£30-£40 million) I think he'll be gone.

The fact that his bad form has lasted the entire season is a massive worry.
 

SachinJ22

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And stop blaming Mourinho for his shite performances, its getting annoying. He's had many chances to perform, Anthony and he hasn't taken them as much this season. If he continues that hel probably be sold because you don't get much time at Manchester United. If you want to be a starter you have to prove yourself in the limited time you have. Mourinho has given Martial a lot of time and he will do the same next year, but if he's shite next year too we have a bigger problem on our hands.

And no, we aren't referring to Martial of late. He's been poor the whole season. We've only seen glimpses of what he can do, but he has broadly been shite from the moment we had our first game.
Mourinho benches Martial whenever he has a bad game but doesn't bench players like Lingard and Fellaini even after many awful performances, if you think that doesn't affect his confidence then you don't know how a mind works. Prove himself? He has already proven himself in the last season. Tell me why would he suddenly start playing like shit this season, when he has performed well last season for a young player who was just starting his career for Manchester United. You are totally ignoring the potential and talent he has, which he proved last year. Many good players go through bad patches that doesn't mean they are overrated rubbish. You are also ignoring his mental health and confidence issues he is having. It's the job of the manager to motivate the young players but Jose has criticized young players in public many times this season. Has he ever criticized Lingard, Fellaini, Ibra or Pogba after they had bad games? Fellaini gave away a penalty in one game and cost us 2 points, if that was Shaw or Martial he would have ripped them apart. Let me ask you something, are you one of those people who want Jose to sign Mbappe for next year?
 

SachinJ22

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I personally wouldn't, but I think Mourinho will run out of patience with him. If a big offer comes in for him (£30-£40 million) I think he'll be gone.

The fact that his bad form has lasted the entire season is a massive worry.
Well, Jose is not naive like some people here to sell a good player just because he is having one bad season.
 

SS

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I personally wouldn't, but I think Mourinho will run out of patience with him. If a big offer comes in for him (£30-£40 million) I think he'll be gone.

The fact that his bad form has lasted the entire season is a massive worry.
Hm, I imagine If he loses patience he'll just relegate him to the bench indefinitely rather than sell him. It would probably have to be far more than 30-40 mil to make us consider anyway; no chance will we take the risk of selling him at a loss only to watch him achieve his potential elsewhere. Besides, I don't see him leaving unless he himself is unhappy and he seems to be enjoying life here. As he's so young, potential has to be considered and seeing as we aren't exactly strapped for cash, the club will be more interested in developing a potentially great player than simply recouping the fee we paid.

He had 29 goals + assists last season while Ousemane Dembele only managed one more this season in what's clearly a superior attack, so I still believe we'd be reluctant to sell even if it was at a good price.
 

Garethw

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Surely if he was being sold he wouldn't have been played these recent weeks? His last goal cost us 8m
That is a very good point. I hope that we give him at least one more season. I just have a horrible feeling he'll be sold.
 
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ovoxo

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Needs to go away, have a good break and come back all guns blazing.

On a side note, anyone seen Martials Instagram story?:lol:
 

Jed I. Knight

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Needs to go away, have a good break and come back all guns blazing.

On a side note, anyone seen Martials Instagram story?:lol:
Yes, yes and yes it's fecking awesome! :lol:

Hopefully next season we'll see him back to his best again.
 

ovoxo

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What was his story?
Martial is recording, Rashford and Lingard are with him and they both start singing the Tony Martial song. It's quite funny! Hopefully someone clips it somehow.
 

bosnian_red

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Hopefully he steps up next season! Mourinho the last month or so has mainly been playing him up front so maybe he sees him more of a striker then a winger. He's been predictable on the wing but either way he has huge potential. Hope he gets back to his best.
 

VeevaVee

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Rashford is so camp in his story :lol:

Needs to not be a passenger next season. He doesn't add anything at the moment. Hopefully we have a livelier attack and it brings it out of him.
 

ovoxo

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Hopefully he steps up next season! Mourinho the last month or so has mainly been playing him up front so maybe he sees him more of a striker then a winger.
I personally think he's been used there because we needed to rest Rashford. He was still on the left in some of the games recently with Rooney up front, I believe.
 

Sylar

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One thing he will have now is a proper break. Theres no major tournament to be occupied with. Keeping in mind hes only 21, that should do him a world of good. Winning a trophy / medal will be a great boost for any kid, which is what he still really is.
 

Damien

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Rashford is so camp in his story :lol:

Needs to not be a passenger next season. He doesn't add anything at the moment. Hopefully we have a livelier attack and it brings it out of him.
I still feel we need more of an attacking threat at left back. As good as Darmian has been of late defensively, our attacking side there is lacking.

I think Mourinho won't sign a new left back (with two attackers, at least one midfielder (two if Fellaini or Carrick leave) and a centre back seen as more important). Hope with the signings made, whoever at left back is given a bit more freedom. If no signings are made, ideally I'd like to see Darmian there for say the first couple of months then bring Shaw in when 100% fit and see what he can do.
 

VeevaVee

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I still feel we need more of an attacking threat at left back. As good as Darmian has been of late defensively, our attacking side there is lacking.

I think Mourinho won't sign a new left back (with two attackers, at least one midfielder (two if Fellaini or Carrick leave) and a centre back seen as more important). Hope with the signings made, whoever at left back is given a bit more freedom. If no signings are made, ideally I'd like to see Darmian there for say the first couple of months then bring Shaw in when 100% fit and see what he can do.
Yeah, agree with all that.
 
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