[Port Vale Devil]

Should have cashed in on Martial in the summer. Maybe he would prosper elsewhere but he hasn't cut the mustard at Utd.

He should have been chomping at the bit today to prove Mourinho wrong but he was useless.

Just because he has a clause in his contract about Ballon Do'r it doesn't automatically mean he will ever achieve it.

 

[duffer]

People just want him to get into the groove

This is not the thread for silly Madonna jokes.

He's had a stressful few months. Missed out on the world cup win, had a difficult relationship with Jose and just had a kid

He needs a holiday.

 

[Handsome Devil]

Hahaha its prima donna... Pre Madonna wtf! Brilliant. Does that mean he was born in the 50s or what?

He was more Primark today.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I don't care if you don't like the manager or that you got dropped for a few games. It's not fecking acceptable to go out and play for Man United and be sulking and basically put in a half arse shift.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I don't care if you don't like the manager or that you got dropped for a few games. It's not fecking acceptable to go out and play for Man United and be sulking and basically put in a half arse shift.

Which he's been doing since fecking January. It's pathetic.

An attacking player for Manchester United like Martial who hasn't scored a goal in almost 6 months of football, he can moan all he wants about not starting every week but he's played enough minutes since then to score. He ought to be embarrassed of his performances.

I'd get rid.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Will not be the least bit bothered when he goes, the excuses made for him are unreal.

 

[MadMike]

He’s obviously talented but he’s not pulling his weight atm. He seems checked out mentally since Sánchez came and he lost his place.

If that’s the Martial we’ll keep seeing I won’t be bothered if he leaves in Jan, so long as we bring in an actual RW instead of starting Mata there.

 

[Sayros]

The biggest criticism of him is his lack of movement, and that he seems to be mentally one foot out of the door. Not every player moves all game long, that's clearly not his style but he still managed to have impacts on the games. Martial was the PotM several times over last season and won this club games. The fact is, a lot of players besides him are not playing to their potential under Mourinho. It's a consistent problem. What ticks people off is that Martial doesn't look bothered while the rest of the team will still look as if they give a feck. Van Gaal managed to get more out of him than Jose because the style suited him better. I would say that doesn't mean feck all if Mourinho's system works better for the rest of the team, then in that case Martial should either adapt or move on but the simple fact is Mourinho's "system" or lack thereof, is not working with anybody on the team.

 

[forevrared]

Which he's been doing since fecking January. It's pathetic.

An attacking player for Manchester United like Martial who hasn't scored a goal in almost 6 months of football, he can moan all he wants about not starting every week but he's played enough minutes since then to score. He ought to be embarrassed of his performances.

I'd get rid.

That's the thing. This idea that he played enough and did nothing with his time seems to be prevailing, but after Sanchez was signed last year, he only started 5 matches the entire rest of the season. Only once did he start in back to back matches and those were two weeks apart on either side of the February international break. You just cannot expect consistency out of a player who never knows where he stands from week to week. He'd scored three matches running when Sanchez joined and despite the entire world seeing that nothing was coming off for Sanchez, he started all but two games the rest of the season no matter how badly he played. To be unceremoniously dropped for a player that isn't playing nearly as well as you were will weigh on a player -- especially a young player.

I can accept that he's been completely unprofessional in the way he's gone about showing how unhappy he is, but I still think he was horribly, horribly mismanaged by Mourinho. We'll no doubt sell him on when we can get a replacement in, but it's sad seeing how much potential he had and seeing what the club has done with it. Blaming him alone is easier an easier pill to swallow than holding Mourinho accountable for running off yet another exceptional young talent that he didn't think was worth the effort to develop (Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku, Bonnuci, et al).

 

[Marcus]

Sell him. The transfer window for the rest of Europe is still open.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

That's the thing. This idea that he played enough and did nothing with his time seems to be prevailing, but after Sanchez was signed last year, he only started 5 matches the entire rest of the season. Only once did he start in back to back matches and those were two weeks apart on either side of the February international break. You just cannot expect consistency out of a player who never knows where he stands from week to week. He'd scored three matches running when Sanchez joined and despite the entire world seeing that nothing was coming off for Sanchez, he started all but two games the rest of the season no matter how badly he played. To be unceremoniously dropped for a player that isn't playing nearly as well as you were will weigh on a player -- especially a young player.

I can accept that he's been completely unprofessional in the way he's gone about showing how unhappy he is, but I still think he was horribly, horribly mismanaged by Mourinho. We'll no doubt sell him on when we can get a replacement in, but it's sad seeing how much potential he had and seeing what the club has done with it. Blaming him alone is easier an easier pill to swallow than holding Mourinho accountable for running off yet another exceptional young talent that he didn't think was worth the effort to develop (Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku, Bonnuci, et al).

Mourinho has to take a share of the blame too, I'm not defending him. Hell I want him sacked as soon as possible.

I just think Martial has too many excuses made for him, he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is.

 

[JK-27]

That's the thing. This idea that he played enough and did nothing with his time seems to be prevailing, but after Sanchez was signed last year, he only started 5 matches the entire rest of the season. Only once did he start in back to back matches and those were two weeks apart on either side of the February international break. You just cannot expect consistency out of a player who never knows where he stands from week to week. He'd scored three matches running when Sanchez joined and despite the entire world seeing that nothing was coming off for Sanchez, he started all but two games the rest of the season no matter how badly he played. To be unceremoniously dropped for a player that isn't playing nearly as well as you were will weigh on a player -- especially a young player.

I can accept that he's been completely unprofessional in the way he's gone about showing how unhappy he is, but I still think he was horribly, horribly mismanaged by Mourinho. We'll no doubt sell him on when we can get a replacement in, but it's sad seeing how much potential he had and seeing what the club has done with it. Blaming him alone is easier an easier pill to swallow than holding Mourinho accountable for running off yet another exceptional young talent that he didn't think was worth the effort to develop (Salah, De Bruyne, Lukaku, Bonnuci, et al).

Actually, part of his development plan was letting them go out on loan (Lukaku, Salah) - a tactic SAF used (Beckham was sent out on loan as an example). Young players need game time, loads of them get sent out on loan.

If Lukaku was so hard done by, why did he choose to work with Jose again? He could have gone to Chelsea but chose Utd with Jose in charge.

And for someone who doesn't like young players, he tends to buy a lot of them doesn't he.

What does Bonnuci have do with any of it?

 

[forevrared]

What was the point of sending them on loan if he didn't give them a real chance in the first team afterward? Selling on extremely talented young players only serves to hurt the club he will inevitably huff and puff out of a year or two down the road (he's managed since 2000 and never stayed at a club longer than 3 years).

Of course Lukaku would sign for the biggest club in the world when he's going to be first choice, but he probably feels like he could have done that at Chelsea, given the chance. It shows poor judgement on Mourinho's part to let go of a player who became good enough to command a record fee. It's not him who was hard done by, it was Chelsea, who were Mourinho's employers.

My point is the club's long-term best interests are not in Mourinho's thoughts because he likely knows he won't be anywhere long-term and that's a dangerous thing for a club with young talent.


(Mourinho sold Bonnuci for peanuts at Inter, which is what he's got to do with it.)

 

[jungledrums]

Welp, all that hype for Martial playing

No one's here

All our pro-Martial posters are fair-weather posters

What divisive, moronic shit. Jesus Christ, I swear some people would rather certain players don’t perform so that they can fecking brag about how much foresight they have. If you didn’t want Martial to perform today, you’re an idiot.

 

[WR10]

Even in a game where the average team rating was a 3/10 - Martial still showed he is 10x more effective than Sanchez. 5 minutes of martial is 90minutes of playground player Sanchez

 

[99withaflake]

Sell him, pre Madonna

Prima donna.

Here you are, buddy: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/prima-donna

 

[el3mel]

Even in a game where the average team rating was a 3/10 - Martial still showed he is 10x more effective than Sanchez. 5 minutes of martial is 90minutes of playground player Sanchez

Not sure you were watching the same game as everyone.

 

[WR10]

Not sure you were watching the same game as everyone.

Yup, he didn’t have a great game yet still was 10x better than Sanchez

 

[el3mel]

Yup, he didn’t have a great game yet still was 10x better than Sanchez

Sanchez created 4 chances against Leicester. He created sitters for Lukaku and Mata.

Martial did square root of nothing. One run and one deflected shot and that's it. He was invisible the rest of the game.

 

[WR10]

Sanchez created 4 chances against Leicester. He created sitters for Lukaku and Mata.

Martial did square root of nothing. One run and one deflected shot and that's it. He was invisible the rest of the game.

Useless argument. Martial is a better fit to our system than Sanchez. His time is over

 

[99withaflake]

Even in a game where the average team rating was a 3/10 - Martial still showed he is 10x more effective than Sanchez. 5 minutes of martial is 90minutes of playground player Sanchez

Not sure you were watching the same game as everyone.

Sanchez was very average last week which was still better than Martial today.

Martial offered pretty much nothing to the team. It's like he's not on the pitch.

I'm not sure if it is attitude, effort, confidence, whatever - this was his chance to prove some of the doubters wrong and he was unbelievably shit.

 

[99withaflake]

Useless argument. Martial is a better fit to our system than Sanchez. His time is over

Martial isn't a better fit when his performance levels are League 2 standard.

An average, out of position Sanchez offers more to the team and creates more chances than Martial.

 

[el3mel]

Useless argument. Martial is a better fit to our system than Sanchez. His time is over

Ok.

 

[Patrick08]

Sanchez created 4 chances against Leicester. He created sitters for Lukaku and Mata.

Martial did square root of nothing. One run and one deflected shot and that's it. He was invisible the rest of the game.

Has to be tried in a two man attack up front.

 

[WR10]

Martial isn't a better fit when his performance levels are League 2 standard.

An average, out of position Sanchez offers more to the team and creates more chances than Martial.

I really wish that was true. I am still waiting for the day Sanchez is more effective for Manchester United than Martial

 

[MadMike]

Yup, he didn’t have a great game yet still was 10x better than Sanchez

 

[99withaflake]

I really wish that was true. I am still waiting for the day Sanchez is more effective for Manchester United than Martial

Don't wait for the day. Just watch the last two matches.

 

[jungledrums]

Don't wait for the day. Just watch the last two matches.

Strange to use examples of Sanchez playing shite as evidence to support that point though. Surely most can see that both players are currently massively underperforming, to the extent that neither emerges favourably when faced with these comparisons. Both have been bad, are we really going to argue over who’s been ever so slightly less shit?

 

[99withaflake]

Strange to use examples of Sanchez playing shite as evidence to support that point though. Surely most can see that both players are currently massively underperforming, to the extent that neither emerges favourably when faced with these comparisons. Both have been bad, are we really going to argue over who’s been ever so slightly less shit?

It's not strange. Rather than make stuff up, I'm sharing what has actually happened in our opening 2 games. Sanchez was average last week, Martial was even worse, therefore I'd rather Sanchez played. Not an ideal scenario, but he offers a little bit more.

 

[Beobachter]

This is not the thread for silly Madonna jokes.

He's had a stressful few months. Missed out on the world cup win, had a difficult relationship with Jose and just had a kid

He needs a holiday.

The way he was frozen out of the team last year, and the WC squad this year, he certainly needs it.

 

[jungledrums]

It's not strange. Rather than make stuff up, I'm sharing what has actually happened in our opening 2 games. Sanchez was average last week, Martial was even worse, therefore I'd rather Sanchez played. Not an ideal scenario, but he offers a little bit more.

Sanchez was diabolical last week. Martial was anonymous yesterday. Can’t you see how subjective your opinion is, that Sanchez outperformed Martial last week? Even if it’s true, it’s a moot point given just how insanely bad Sanchez was last week. The discussion should not be centred on who is less shit, but on why we are so toothless going forward. I have no fecking idea why, I don’t claim to know, but quite clearly there is some sort of issue beyond merely our player personnel. Both are good players - why can’t they, and many others within this team, fulfil their potential?

 

[Red_toad]

This is not the thread for silly Madonna jokes.

He's had a stressful few months. Missed out on the world cup win, had a difficult relationship with Jose and just had a kid

He needs a holiday.

Had an extra week after his long summer holiday. Something wrong with your memory? He's had the most rest out of all the United players, not done him any favours, as he's back to looking half arsed and only interested when the ball is played into his feet, as opposed to demanding the ball.Our most potent attacking player, but seems unable or unwilling to adjust his game. Had one very good moment in the game, but after that nothing.

 

[MadMike]

Strange to use examples of Sanchez playing shite as evidence to support that point though. Surely most can see that both players are currently massively underperforming, to the extent that neither emerges favourably when faced with these comparisons. Both have been bad, are we really going to argue over who’s been ever so slightly less shit?

Yes, because performances are not binary. It’s not shit or great. There’s grading.

Even when playing poorly like he is Sanchez has much more of an impact and is much more noticeable. He works his socks off. I don’t just mean defensively either. He always tries to make himself available as an option, he demands the ball and he always gets involved in the play. A lot of play goes through his feet.

Martial at the moment is just drifting through games doing next to nothing. He disappears. Hard to see how things will magically start happening for him if he’s so uninvolved.

I clearly know which of the two I’d rather have.

 

[forevrared]

Had an extra week after his long summer holiday. Something wrong with your memory? He's had the most rest out of all the United players, not done him any favours, as he's back to looking half arsed and only interested when the ball is played into his feet, as opposed to demanding the ball.Our most potent attacking player, but seems unable or unwilling to adjust his game. Had one very good moment in the game, but after that nothing.

It's almost like some of you forget that footballers are still living, breathing human beings. Unless you're a child yourself, there's no way you could think the first week of having a new baby, when there are additional complications, is 'rest'.

 

[99withaflake]

Sanchez was diabolical last week. Martial was anonymous yesterday. Can’t you see how subjective your opinion is, that Sanchez outperformed Martial last week? Even if it’s true, it’s a moot point given just how insanely bad Sanchez was last week. The discussion should not be centred on who is less shit, but on why we are so toothless going forward. I have no fecking idea why, I don’t claim to know, but quite clearly there is some sort of issue beyond merely our player personnel. Both are good players - why can’t they, and many others within this team, fulfil their potential?

Sanchez created 2 good opportunities for team-mates, had a couple of through balls superbly intercepted by defenders, won some free-kicks when the team needed them, and did his bit tracking back.

Don't get me wrong. Sanchez did not have a good game. He was far too wasteful and seems to have lost that spark. But he was a 5/10 and at least offered something, compared to Martial who was 3/10 and offered absolutely nothing. He may as well not be on the pitch.

I get what you mean though. We're debating who was more shit at a very early stage of the season.

I don't really know buddy what the answer is to improving our attacking play across the team. The front 3 really need to show more creativity and confidence, the midfield need to be getting the ball to them more often in good positions, the circus in defence didn't help anyone, the players needed to show more energy and fight in the second half (looks like they realised they couldn't win after 50 minutes), the manager and coaching staff need to look at what they're doing all week to result in a performance like that. Everywhere you look, everyone could be doing better.

Very depressing. Hope we can string 4 or 5 wins together and forget about this, but I'm not sure how strong we are mentally, and think another poor performance isn't too far away.

 

[jungledrums]

Yes, because performances are not binary. It’s not shit or great. There’s grading.

Even when playing poorly like he is Sanchez has much more of an impact and is much more noticeable. He works his socks off. I don’t just mean defensively either. He always tries to make himself available as an option, he demands the ball and he always gets involved in the play. A lot of play goes through his feet.

Martial at the moment is just drifting through games doing next to nothing. He disappears. Hard to see how things will magically start happening for him if he’s so uninvolved.

I clearly know which of the two I’d rather have.

Grade it on a scale of acceptable and unacceptable then. It’s binary in the sense that both have put in performances that are simply unacceptable. Neither deserve to start going by their previous outings. Given our lack of options, one of them will start of course, but again, neither of the two deserve it any more than the other on current form. I think the question as to why both players (and half the bloody team) are grossly underperforming is one worth exploring.

Again, subjective opinion re sanchez’s impact when off form. I agree Sanchez puts himself about more, but that invariably leads to us losing the ball considerably more when Sanchez is not performing. Martial is anonymous when out of form; Sanchez loses the ball all the time. Which is ‘preferable’?

You may know which of the two you’d rather have, others may disagree. I would begrudge neither opinion frankly. Sanchez, though, has not played well consistently since we signed him. I don’t think his previous performances are defensible in any way. That applies to Martial in current form, too.

 

[Patrick08]

He ain't a winger. He is a wide striker or a striker who could play in a two. Forcing him to play as a winger will do no good to him.

 

[Kostov]

Holy feck, some of you need a word with yourself. We were dire, the whole team, we couldn't string an attack together, and here you are with you knifes out in the Martial thread. Some of you comparing that Sanchez performance to the one Martial had? Sanchez played 90 minutes in a much better team performance, where Pogba ran the show, while he couldn't do a thing right bar 3 passes in 90 minutes of football. He played football in something resembling of a team, yesterday was nothing in that mood.

 

[Ban]

Yup, he didn’t have a great game yet still was 10x better than Sanchez

So much wrong with this post. So much wrong.

 

[kouroux]

Seems mad and stupid to start a player who wants to leave. Wtf was supposed to happen yesterday ? Why is Mourinho doing this to himself ?