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Bebestation

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The only reason i'd keep him is it gives us / the front line an option of another creative striker alongside Kane which is not easy to find.
 

Bebestation

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Except is actually doesn't
I dont rate Martial - but if we are bringing Kane to have Rashford playing like Son then Martial could do aswell as our back up plan b or even C. Until he leaves on a free because noone is buying him.
 

OrcaFat

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That's not enough though.

He would come on for about 30 mins and look good then would get injured and miss months of football. And actually it has been years, he was awful in 20/21 and awful in 21/22. The only time in the last few years he's looked good was the start of this season and even that was only 4 or 5 cameos.

When did he last start a few games in a row and play really well? It's years ago. The rest of your post basically agrees with me anyway.
No-one thinks what he gives is enough, I’m pretty sure of that. But some people haven’t deliberately forgotten his good periods. The start of this season until he got injured he had a run of games and played well, not just a few cameos. When Ole first came in he played well - that’s going back a bit but it’s within memory.

As you say, I’m mostly agreeing with you (and I’ll shed no tears when he leaves) but it’s not necessary to exaggerate how poor he has been. He’s very talented and but for injuries he would have achieved a lot. Most of his so-called poor performances stem from being unfit (not match fit that is) after injury.

Again, it’s barely worth saying “if he can get fit and stay injury free” because he is injured nearly all the time. We had the same thing with Jones. In the end, we just have to accept that some players are prone to injury and are unlikely to improve much in that regard.
 

Cassidy

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I dont rate Martial - but if we are bringing Kane to have Rashford playing like Son then Martial could do aswell as our back up plan b or even C. Until he leaves on a free because noone is buying him.
A backup option needs to be available
 

OrcaFat

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I dont rate Martial - but if we are bringing Kane to have Rashford playing like Son then Martial could do aswell as our back up plan b or even C. Until he leaves on a free because noone is buying him.
Yeah, we’ll end up keeping him because we’ll have no choice.

He is barely ever fit but it is possible that one day all our other forwards will be injured or suspended and he’ll be available to come in and plug a hole. Expectations should be low in those instances because he won’t be match fit when he comes in.
 

Bebestation

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A backup option needs to be available
Id say thats more a plan B than a plan C. As rashfords shown- he can cover as aCF & it wouldnt surprise me if certain players rearrived making martial even the plan D.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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No-one thinks what he gives is enough, I’m pretty sure of that. But some people haven’t deliberately forgotten his good periods. The start of this season until he got injured he had a run of games and played well, not just a few cameos. When Ole first came in he played well - that’s going back a bit but it’s within memory.

As you say, I’m mostly agreeing with you (and I’ll shed no tears when he leaves) but it’s not necessary to exaggerate how poor he has been. He’s very talented and but for injuries he would have achieved a lot. Most of his so-called poor performances stem from being unfit (not match fit that is) after injury.

Again, it’s barely worth saying “if he can get fit and stay injury free” because he is injured nearly all the time. We had the same thing with Jones. In the end, we just have to accept that some players are prone to injury and are unlikely to improve much in that regard.
You're just proving my point.

The start of this season was just a few cameos, he got 45 minutes vs Liverpool, got injured, 30 mins vs City, 30 mins vs Omonia and started against Everton but had to come off after 29 minutes. And I said it's been years since Martial has been consistently starting games and playing well and you disagreed and point to Ole first coming in, which was over 4 years ago again proving my point.

Not sure why we're arguing when you seem to completely agree with me. He's been here 8 seasons and there have been times he's been very good, his first season was outstanding, he kept Mourinho in the job for a while in 18/19 and the empty stadium part of 19/20 he was very good too. But they are all a long time ago now.

He's been knackered for about 3 years now. He needs a long run of games to get sharp but he's never going to get that because he's so injury prone. We're stuck with him because of his high wages but he'll be off on a free after that I'm sure.
 

bosnian_red

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He will for sure stay. We need a main striker and will get one. He'll just be a backup for the year until he leaves on a free next summer.
 

Cassidy

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Id say thats more a plan B than a plan C. As rashfords shown- he can cover as aCF & it wouldnt surprise me if certain players rearrived making martial even the plan D.
He won't be here next season, quote me when the season starts
 

OrcaFat

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You're just proving my point.

The start of this season was just a few cameos, he got 45 minutes vs Liverpool, got injured, 30 mins vs City, 30 mins vs Omonia and started against Everton but had to come off after 29 minutes. And I said it's been years since Martial has been consistently starting games and playing well and you disagreed and point to Ole first coming in, which was over 4 years ago again proving my point.

Not sure why we're arguing when you seem to completely agree with me. He's been here 8 seasons and there have been times he's been very good, his first season was outstanding, he kept Mourinho in the job for a while in 18/19 and the empty stadium part of 19/20 he was very good too. But they are all a long time ago now.

He's been knackered for about 3 years now. He needs a long run of games to get sharp but he's never going to get that because he's so injury prone. We're stuck with him because of his high wages but he'll be off on a free after that I'm sure.
Yeah, can’t disagree with that.

I didn’t think we were arguing. I’ve just noticed the tendency for a lot of people to generalise and exaggerate to reinforce the point that we’re better off without him. I don’t disagree with the bottom line but his failings are all connected to his injuries. Some people want to convince everyone else that he is lazy and basically incapable, and in doing that they want to disregard his positive contributions.

He’s never been a favourite of mine either, by the way, but I can see why managers give him a chance, especially when you look at our options. I’m sure we’ll get a striker or two in the summer anyway. Bloody hope so.
 

Irwin99

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I dont rate Martial - but if we are bringing Kane to have Rashford playing like Son then Martial could do aswell as our back up plan b or even C. Until he leaves on a free because noone is buying him.
I obviously don't know what's going on behind the scenes but i've always thought Martial would probably stay and finish his contract here next season because a) who would buy him and pay those wages and b) we might be operating under some financial constraints which could mean that two strikers are unlikely.

Whether Martial would be happy to see out his contract is another issue but i can't see many clubs being in for him, unless it's on loan.
 

Pogue Mahone

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Yeah, can’t disagree with that.

I didn’t think we were arguing. I’ve just noticed the tendency for a lot of people to generalise and exaggerate to reinforce the point that we’re better off without him. I don’t disagree with the bottom line but his failings are all connected to his injuries. Some people want to convince everyone else that he is lazy and basically incapable, and in doing that they want to disregard his positive contributions.

He’s never been a favourite of mine either, by the way, but I can see why managers give him a chance, especially when you look at our options. I’m sure we’ll get a striker or two in the summer anyway. Bloody hope so.
Not really. There are plenty of players who’ve had horrible injury records but generally play pretty well when they’re not injured. Ledley King or Paul McGrath would be the classic examples. Louis Saha another, who plays the same position as Martial.

If it takes forever to reach any kind of decent level of performance then that’s a problem which is unrelated to injuries. Martial’s been fit and available for selection since the Newcastle game on April 2nd. Presumably in training for at least a week or two before that. We’re almost into June now. That’s more than enough time for any half decent player to shake off all their ring rust. Instead he’s looking as lethargic and heavy legged as the most overworked players in our squad. You just can’t put that all down to bad luck with injuries.
 

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He won't be here next season, quote me when the season starts
I would love to hear the logic behind this statement. We are paying him 250k a week and based on his form for the last 3 years nobody else is going to give him even 25k a week. Short of loaning him out for the year and agreeing to pay 95% of his wages there is no way he is leaving until his contract expires.
 

C'est Moi Cantona

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I would love to hear the logic behind this statement. We are paying him 250k a week and based on his form for the last 3 years nobody else is going to give him even 25k a week. Short of loaning him out for the year and agreeing to pay 95% of his wages there is no way he is leaving until his contract expires.
I'd agree with this, and tbh loaning out Martial and having to pay most of his wages, against having him as an option should we need him is a no brainer, he needs to stay.
 

Cassidy

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I would love to hear the logic behind this statement. We are paying him 250k a week and based on his form for the last 3 years nobody else is going to give him even 25k a week. Short of loaning him out for the year and agreeing to pay 95% of his wages there is no way he is leaving until his contract expires.
You go ahead and use logic. And we’ll see start of the next season. Quote me.
 

OL29

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Not really. There are plenty of players who’ve had horrible injury records but generally play pretty well when they’re not injured. Ledley King or Paul McGrath would be the classic examples. Louis Saha another, who plays the same position as Martial.

If it takes forever to reach any kind of decent level of performance then that’s a problem which is unrelated to injuries. Martial’s been fit and available for selection since the Newcastle game on April 2nd. Presumably in training for at least a week or two before that. We’re almost into June now. That’s more than enough time for any half decent player to shake off all their ring rust. Instead he’s looking as lethargic and heavy legged as the most overworked players in our squad. You just can’t put that all down to bad luck with injuries.
But his mobility’s been completely ruined by injuries. He has none of the speed or agility he had when he was younger which means he’s had to completely adapt his game. He still shows the occasional glimpse but it’s obvious he’ll never be able to move like he used to. We’ve seen it previously with loads of players; Torres, Owen, Falcao etc. Even his biggest haters can see how much injuries have affected his overall game so I don’t know why it should be ignored.
 

Pogue Mahone

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But his mobility’s been completely ruined by injuries. He has none of the speed or agility he had when he was younger which means he’s had to completely adapt his game. He still shows the occasional glimpse but it’s obvious he’ll never be able to move like he used to. We’ve seen it previously with loads of players; Torres, Owen, Falcao etc. Even his biggest haters can see how much injuries have affected his overall game so I don’t know why it should be ignored.
All of whom were in a completely different league to him in terms of the quality they showed before injuries and (mainly) age caught up with them. Martial’s still only 27 and never hit the heights of any of those players. We’re not talking about an indisputably world class player whose career was ruined by injuries. I mean he barely even managed to establish himself as an international footballer, even when he was at his very best.
 

Waynne

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He will for sure stay. We need a main striker and will get one. He'll just be a backup for the year until he leaves on a free next summer.
Get rid now. Why wait. We don't need passengers in this team if we are to challenge for anything.
 

OL29

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All of whom were in a completely different league to him in terms of the quality they showed before injuries and (mainly) age caught up with them. Martial’s still only 27 and never hit the heights of any of those players. We’re not talking about an indisputably world class player whose career was ruined by injuries. I mean he barely even managed to establish himself as an international footballer, even when he was at his very best.
But we’re talking about how injuries affected them, not how good they were. It’s disingenuous to pretend that age was the main factor for their drop off, particularly Torres and Owen who pretty much finished at 26, losing most of their mobility and constantly picking up niggling injuries. Jack Wilshere is another more recent example. It happens. That’s not to say he would have even been the level required but I don’t know why it’s so hard to acknowledge that he’s been heavily impaired by injuries. Reading your posts you’d think he’s been a non-entity his whole time here, not someone who’s scored nearly 100 goals for us. There’s a reason he’s been a starter under most of our managers.
 

ManRed

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He seemed more decent earlier in the season even though he only played a few times. Last couple of games he seems really immobile and heavy. Hope he gains more fitness before FA Cup final as we need someone to hold the ball.
 

Red00012

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He’s a rubbish back up option as he will be sulking for the season because he’s not getting gametime
 

Djemba-Djemba

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We're not going to be able to shift him this summer on his wages but his time here really should be over. Should have been over a while ago.

With Rashford missing a lot of games recently with a few injuries and some illness we needed Martial to step up and cover that loss and yet he's failed and let us down again. Think he has 1 goal in 10 games.
 

bosnian_red

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Get rid now. Why wait. We don't need passengers in this team if we are to challenge for anything.
Selling him is not realistic really. Ignoring the fact that we'd need to buy another forward if we were to get rid of him in addition to all the other things we need, it's more down to the fact that nobody will take him off us. He has 1 year left on his contract. It's either loan him and pay half of his wages (which is horrible business sense) and let his contract run (basically paying to get rid of him and receiving nothing), or just keep him as a depth option for a year which he is fine to be and then let his contract expire.
 

Waynne

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Selling him is not realistic really. Ignoring the fact that we'd need to buy another forward if we were to get rid of him in addition to all the other things we need, it's more down to the fact that nobody will take him off us. He has 1 year left on his contract. It's either loan him and pay half of his wages (which is horrible business sense) and let his contract run (basically paying to get rid of him and receiving nothing), or just keep him as a depth option for a year which he is fine to be and then let his contract expire.
I get the depth argument but the man is never fit enough to start and when he does start he lasts only a few games before he's back on the treatment table.
I'm inclinded to believe that won't change for him even as a backup striker or on a rotation with an established first 11 striker.

God alone knows what kind of physical condition this man is in to always be out injured.
 

bosnian_red

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I get the depth argument but the man is never fit enough to start and when he does start he lasts only a few games before he's back on the treatment table.
I'm inclinded to believe that won't change for him even as a backup striker or on a rotation with an established first 11 striker.

God alone knows what kind of physical condition this man is in to always be out injured.
Injuries are hard. Some players' bodies can't take the demands of top level football. It's more just a sad case IMO. It's the case with Pogba and Martial, same with Jones, Saha and Hargreaves before. They just can't escape constant injuries for whatever reason and it can really kill the players motivation.
 

OrcaFat

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Not really. There are plenty of players who’ve had horrible injury records but generally play pretty well when they’re not injured. Ledley King or Paul McGrath would be the classic examples. Louis Saha another, who plays the same position as Martial.

If it takes forever to reach any kind of decent level of performance then that’s a problem which is unrelated to injuries. Martial’s been fit and available for selection since the Newcastle game on April 2nd. Presumably in training for at least a week or two before that. We’re almost into June now. That’s more than enough time for any half decent player to shake off all their ring rust. Instead he’s looking as lethargic and heavy legged as the most overworked players in our squad. You just can’t put that all down to bad luck with injuries.
I think you can. You’ve named a couple of truly exceptional players and there are probably others but look at Casemiro for example and Rooney.
 

JohnyBuckets

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To everyone that says to get rid of him, no one will take him on the wages he is on! He will be at the club until his contract runs out... the problem is that he is an even worse second striker than he is a main man.
 

McGrathsipan

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Lads when something is obvious it's obvious.

Injury talk aside Martial isn't an elite mentality or player.

He's a player that has the odd excellent performance but his normal level of approach application and performance is absolutely miles off what a title challenging team should have.

8 seasons later and here we are with him with people still trying to claim the world class player is there somewhere.
It isn't. Not at this stage. The experiment is over.

8 sessons is long enough.
His United career can't end soon enough and if he can't be moved this summer I hope he's a bench player next season until he does leave.
 

Pogue Mahone

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But we’re talking about how injuries affected them, not how good they were. It’s disingenuous to pretend that age was the main factor for their drop off, particularly Torres and Owen who pretty much finished at 26, losing most of their mobility and constantly picking up niggling injuries. Jack Wilshere is another more recent example. It happens. That’s not to say he would have even been the level required but I don’t know why it’s so hard to acknowledge that he’s been heavily impaired by injuries. Reading your posts you’d think he’s been a non-entity his whole time here, not someone who’s scored nearly 100 goals for us. There’s a reason he’s been a starter under most of our managers.
I’m not saying he was a complete non-entity. I’m just disagreeing with the idea that he was this top player whose career was sadly cut short by injuries. Look at his goal scoring stats. He just looks like a classic one season wonder. He had one decent season, in 2019/20 where his goalscoring peaked at 1 every 2 games (in the league) Which is good but not amazing. For the whole of the rest of his career so far he’s been about 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 (and occasionally a lot worse) And there’s no pattern of early productivity, declining over time. It’s all over the place. The only consistent thing about his productivity in front of goal is that it’s never been very impressive.

And his injuries get exaggerated as much as his goalscoring. He’s never had serious injury. Never once been stretchered off the pitch, walked around on crutches, or needed surgery. It’s all been a bunch of minor niggles. Nothing which fits with a player who lost a yard of pace after rehabbing from a bad injury.

So I’m not buying this notion that he’s a quality player who’s been unlucky with injuries. He’s an inconsistent player who’s only ever had one really good season and lacks the physical robustness to play top flight foothold. Which is exactly what we’re seeing this season.
 

Chaky_Best

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With his wages and his form, we will not find a buyer unless it's a promoted side, or a side that wants to gamble on him (like Forest).

Otherwise, I think he will see off his contract and potentially be loaned the rest of it.

He should go back to France as the rythm is lower and he would play more games I think.
 

OL29

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I’m not saying he was a complete non-entity. I’m just disagreeing with the idea that he was this top player whose career was sadly cut short by injuries. Look at his goal scoring stats. He just looks like a classic one season wonder. He had one decent season, in 2019/20 where his goalscoring peaked at 1 every 2 games (in the league) Which is good but not amazing. For the whole of the rest of his career so far he’s been about 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 (and occasionally a lot worse) And there’s no pattern of early productivity, declining over time. It’s all over the place. The only consistent thing about his productivity in front of goal is that it’s never been very impressive.

And his injuries get exaggerated as much as his goalscoring. He’s never had serious injury. Never once been stretchered off the pitch, walked around on crutches, or needed surgery. It’s all been a bunch of minor niggles. Nothing which fits with a player who lost a yard of pace after rehabbing from a bad injury.

So I’m not buying this notion that he’s a quality player who’s been unlucky with injuries. He’s an inconsistent player who’s only ever had one really good season and lacks the physical robustness to play top flight foothold. Which is exactly what we’re seeing this season.
I don’t think anyone’s saying he’s a top quality player though. He was a good player imo with obvious issues with inconsistency. He also was very good in his first season to be fair to him. I think he had 17 goals and 10 assists that year, mostly playing from wide in a Van Gaal team that largely struggled for goals and an attacking spark. You can criticise his goal record, which is fair, but it’s also fair to acknowledge that he didn’t really play as a striker for us until 2019. He spent a lot of time playing wide for Mourinho who requires his wingers to defend as much as they attack. So you can criticise his goal record which is fair but when you look at it in context, it’s hardly terrible. He’s scored nearly one in three which isn’t that far off someone like Rashford who’s had a very good career for us barring last season.

With regards to the bolded, I don’t really get your point? You only have to look at the contrast between how he moves now compared to a few years back to se he’s obviously been hampered by injuries. The fact that his body constantly breaks down, as we’ve seen this season demonstrates this quite clearly. He even said himself that he constantly played through injury under Ole which affected his acceleration at the time. I don’t think Ryan Giggs had major injuries either but he had to adapt his game completely because his hamstrings kept failing him. Obviously Giggs was a much better player so he was still able to perform at a good level. I think people on this forum sometimes get so consumed with criticising certain players they fail to provide any sort of balance. I’m not saying Martial would’ve been world class without the injuries but to completely disregard them is unfair. All in all, he’s had a much better career for us than a lot of players we’ve signed post Fergie, so I don’t understand this narrative that he’s a one season wonder.
 
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Pogue Mahone

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I don’t think anyone’s saying he’s a top quality player though. He was a good player imo with obvious issues with inconsistency. He also was very good in his first season to be fair to him. I think he had 17 goals and 10 assists that year, mostly playing from wide in a Van Gaal team that largely struggled for goals and an attacking spark. You can criticise his goal record, which is fair, but it’s also fair to acknowledge that he didn’t really play as a striker for us until 2019. He spent a lot of time playing wide for Mourinho who requires his wingers to defend as much as they attack. So you can criticise his goal record which is fair but when you look at it in context, it’s hardly terrible. He’s scored nearly one in three which isn’t that far off someone like Rashford who’s had a very good career for us barring last season.

With regards to the bolded, I don’t really get your point? You only have to look at the contrast between how he moves now compared to a few years back to se he’s obviously been hampered by injuries. The fact that his body constantly breaks down, as we’ve seen this season demonstrates this quite clearly. I don’t think Ryan Giggs had major injuries either but he had to adapt his game completely because his hamstrings kept failing him. Obviously Giggs was a much better player so he was still able to perform at a good level. I think people on this forum sometimes get so consumed with criticising certain players they fail to provide any sort of balance. I’m not saying Martial would’ve been world class without the injuries but to completely disregard them is unfair. All in all, he’s had a much better career for us than a lot of players we’ve signed post Fergie, so I don’t understand this narrative that he’s a one season wonder.
Re his first season. 11 goals in 31 league games. 1 in 3. Similar rate in 2018/19. Not amazing but decent. Then he had that one really good season where he hit 1 in 2. Similar to Ollie Watkins this season. Slightly worse than Ivan Toney. Albeit playing for a better team than those two.

And those would be his three most productive seasons by a margin. And he’s 27 years old now. Not a young player.

The point with his injuries is that there isn’t a “before” and “after” player. Someone who was obviously top class before injuries struck. You mention his 1 in 3 debut season. Well he got 1 in 6 the season after. Then after his best season in 19/20 he got 1 in 5 the season after that.
 
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OL29

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Re his first season. 11 goals in 31 league games. 1 in 3. Similar rate in 2018/19. Not amazing but decent. Then he had that one really good season where he hit 1 in 2. Similar to Ollie Watkins this season. Slightly worse than Ivan Toney. Albeit playing for a better team than those two.

And those would be his three most productive seasons by a margin. And he’s 27 years old now. Not a young player.
I’m pretty sure he played wide in his first season and in 2018/19 though. Rooney/Rashford and Lukaku played up top those years.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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I think in 15/16 and 19/20 he had genuinely good seasons.

15/16 doesn't look great on paper but considering he was a young player in his first season here in a new country playing for a manager that had us playing the dullest most negative football I've ever seen I thought he did well.

It sums Martial up that both times he had a good season he would follow it up with terrible seasons the year after. 20/21 in particular he was horrendous. He's an immensely frustrating player that should have left a while ago.
 

daveskimufc

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Hopefully someone will come in for him, or potentially he can be offered as part of a transfer. Don't want him as a backup because he'd be injured when we need him.
 

OL29

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In his first season he played both. From memory he was mostly a striker in the first half of the season, then later on he was mostly out wide.
I could be wrong to be fair, I thought he moved to the left after a couple months of the season when Van Gaal realised Memphis wasn’t good enough.
 
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