[Rossa]

Ander's position isnt to counter. He's not a forward. We saw him in our own box making clearances today and he wasnt covering for a CB, he was just fulfilling his obligations as a CM.

Besides it was almost always Smalling pulling wide because Ander has work to do in the middle, and more often than not is pressing high up the pitch which can easily take him out of the game if he doesnt manage to pinch it

So no midfielders ever parttake in a counter attack, and you question people's grasp of football. You said It yourself that it is a team sport. When Smalling covers wide Carrick covers in the centre. When Herrera covers wide, it is no great concern that Valencia is further up the pitch. I actually believe fotballers are instructed to cover for each other.

Herrera covered wide down that flank several times, as he should. Fletcher was great at that for instance.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He does a job there but we need to invest in an actual right back this summer andmim pretty confident that we will.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Big sodding woop? On another day that's a goal, again he was only able to atone because of a poor first touch. That's 2 massive errors in one half.

No, because on another day, Valencia still has the pace to get across in time - as he would have done even if the first touch had been good.

 

[ivaldo]

No, because on another day, Valencia still has the pace to get across in time - as he would have done even if the first touch had been good.

Absolute nonsense.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Absolute nonsense.

Right, because on another day, Valencia is slower? He still would have got there regardless of Aguero's touch because... incredibly... Valencia is quicker than Aguero! Amazing right?

 

[ivaldo]

Right, because on another day, Valencia is slower? He still would have got there regardless of Aguero's touch because... incredibly... Valencia is quicker than Aguero! Amazing right?

No because Valencia doesn't have the ability to stop time. The fact he miscontrols it tells us he got to the ball first?

 

[Loublaze]

Was shite for their first goal and recovered well after letting Aguero go beyond the defence onside.

Was very good for the rest of the game though and his strength and pace are real assets. Still don't think he should be starting over Rafa or be our no. 1 RB next season though.

Forget Rafael.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

No because Valencia doesn't have the ability to stop time. The fact he miscontrols it tells us he got to the ball first?

Erm, Aguero still got to the ball first - the only difference his control would have made was to bring the ball further infield to run directly at goal, but Valencia still would have been able to match his run and get there in more than enough time. This really isn't difficult.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Was shite for their first goal and recovered well after letting Aguero go beyond the defence onside.

Was very good for the rest of the game though and his strength and pace are real assets. Still don't think he should be starting over Rafa or be our no. 1 RB next season though.

Can't do much when its a 2 on 1 on that flank. Giggs implored Mata to help him out after that.

 

[berbatrick]

I don't understand that the same people who (with some justification) would attack Rafael's positioning can't find anything wrong with Valencia's constant disappearing act.
Twice in the 1st half he did fresh-air swipes in their half allowing dangerous counters to build. Once (which I can remember) he was (as usual) sucked in to the middle of the box allowing Milner an acre to himself to take a shot. (BTW this has happened in every single Valencia RB game ever). He played Aguero onside but then recovered. There was one City counter when he started goalside of Herrera (who lost the ball) but when the shot was taken, Herrera was next to Smalling who made the block, while Valencia hadn't reached the box.
I didn't see the 1st 30 mins so can't comment on the goal but it seems universally accepted here that he got done in by some movement around him - surprise surprise.

 

[ivaldo]

Erm, Aguero still got to the ball first - the only difference his control would have made was to bring the ball further infield to run directly at goal, but Valencia still would have been able to match his run and get there in more than enough time. This really isn't difficult.

Let's just play your game and pretend Aguero wouldn't have been able to get his shot away before The Flash gets back in time. He's still one on one against Valencia who is on the back foot and in an unfavourable position, even in this scenario Augero has a great chance to find the net.

 

[snk123]

If anyone seriously thinks all a fullback needs to do is what Valencia does well, make some tackles and make runs, then I dont think they understand football.

Since you have a superior understanding of football than others, can you shed light on why top managers play Valencia as RB? or is it Ekeke > (Van Gaal + Fergie)

 

[Ekeke]

Since you have a superior understanding of football than others, can you shed light on why top managers play Valencia as RB? or is it Ekeke > (Van Gaal + Fergie)

I suggested it myself

But I didnt know that he has no capacity to learn the basic positioning for the role. Usually players learn, he hasn't.

Sir Alex used him at rightback a couple of times, which is fine. He's a fine backup

 

[Kag]

At what point do we accept he's good enough to remain our right-back and isn't makeshift?

When he defends better than he did today in the bigger matches.

I've enjoyed Valencia's general return to form at full back this season, and he's a good option there, but we can do better both offensively and defensively.

His positioning today, and against Arsenal in the FA Cup, highlights that he's still a work in progress at right back.

He had a very good second half today, mind you.

 

[Still ill]

Some terrible shite in here. Tony deserves nothing but praise, has been pretty phenomenal all things considered for last couple of months. Is he the long term solution at right-back? Of course not. But he's there on merit and it's questionable whether there's a better player in that position in the league on current form.

 

[bishblaize]

No, im talking about the mistake before the recovery tackle he made when Aguero miscontrolled it when he was clear in on goal.

Just watched it again, and its harsh to call that an error. He doesn't drift offside for one thing. He pauses slightly when he reaches a line with Smalling, before seeing Ageuro running, who he decides to track. So he's well aware of the offside line.

As it happens Milner could have played the ball earlier, but didn't. If you watch the replay Milner waits before releasing the ball, which means that Aguero could have been caught offside if Valencia had played the offside trap.

However the point is that Valencia had to make a decision about whether to track Aguero or not before it was too late. He couldn't leave him to run hoping that Milner would delay the pass as he did. Had Milner run onto the ball and passed it early we might have caught Aguero offside, but that would have been luck not judgement.

At the end of the day, in those situations you make a call, track the runner or leave him. He tracked the runner, which is the less elegant option, but the safer one. And certainly not one I would call an obvious error.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Just watched it again, and its harsh to call that an error. He doesn't drift offside for one thing. He pauses slightly when he reaches a line with Smalling, before seeing Ageuro running, who he decides to track. So he's well aware of the offside line.

As it happens Milner could have played the ball earlier, but didn't. If you watch the replay Milner waits before releasing the ball, which means that Aguero could have been caught offside if Valencia had played the offside trap.

However the point is that Valencia had to make a decision about whether to track Aguero or not before it was too late. He couldn't leave him to run hoping that Milner would delay the pass as he did. Had Milner run onto the ball and passed it early we might have caught Aguero offside, but that would have been luck not judgement.

At the end of the day, in those situations you make a call, track the runner or leave him. He tracked the runner, which is the less elegant option, but the safer one. And certainly not one I would call an obvious error.

Could Aguero's have done a first touch that would have put him through on goal and Valencia wouldn't have been able to do anything about it?

 

[berbatrick]

Since you have a superior understanding of football than others, can you shed light on why top managers play Valencia as RB? or is it Ekeke > (Van Gaal + Fergie)

He was never a RB under SAF except for some emergencies- when Rafael was injured ot we were playing Stoke, Smalling/Jones played there not Valencia. Moyes loved subbing Rafael off for Valencia when we were drawing/losing, which simultaneously weakened our attack and defence, and I don't remember it helping us once.

 

[justboy68]

I don't understand that the same people who (with some justification) would attack Rafael's positioning can't find anything wrong with Valencia's constant disappearing act.
Twice in the 1st half he did fresh-air swipes in their half allowing dangerous counters to build. Once (which I can remember) he was (as usual) sucked in to the middle of the box allowing Milner an acre to himself to take a shot. (BTW this has happened in every single Valencia RB game ever). He played Aguero onside but then recovered. There was one City counter when he started goalside of Herrera (who lost the ball) but when the shot was taken, Herrera was next to Smalling who made the block, while Valencia hadn't reached the box.
I didn't see the 1st 30 mins so can't comment on the goal but it seems universally accepted here that he got done in by some movement around him - surprise surprise.

Yes that was terrible. He gave him all the time in the world to line it up, by wandering hopelessly into no man's land for no reason whatsoever. Luckily Milner matched it with an equally terrible attempt which went 95 yards over the bar.

Often whatever happens in the first half just gets completely forgotten after the final whistle. I see it all the time. He was atrocious in the first 30 minutes but picked up well towards the end of the first half and was definitely good in the second, so it's just been brushed over by most I guess, but ultimately cost us a goal and could easily have been two or more with his defensive lapses. I feel people are very forgiving of his positional weakness because 'he isn't a natural defender'. But the thing is he is definitely better at full back than he is as an utterly hopeless winger, so he should be judged on his merits in his best position as any other player is.

His physical assets are great for a full back and he keeps possession very well but the fact of the matter is his lack of defensive awareness has, does and will continue to cause us problems and while he does a good job of getting forward and offering support, he is still not exactly an effective attacker most of the time. We have to be in the market in the summer. I'd understand keeping him around for backup (although I'd rather Rafael was as I find him much more enjoyable) but a really good buy there could strengthen us considerably.

Since you have a superior understanding of football than others, can you shed light on why top managers play Valencia as RB? or is it Ekeke > (Van Gaal + Fergie)

Let's not bring out these typical fallacies. What about when Herrera was left out of the team for weeks on end and people were calling for him to play and they were eventually proven right? Does it mean they are bigger geniuses than the manager or whatever? Of course not, it doesn't mean anything.

 

[ivaldo]

Just watched it again, and its harsh to call that an error. He doesn't drift offside for one thing. He pauses slightly when he reaches a line with Smalling, before seeing Ageuro running, who he decides to track. So he's well aware of the offside line.

As it happens Milner could have played the ball earlier, but didn't. If you watch the replay Milner waits before releasing the ball, which means that Aguero could have been caught offside if Valencia had played the offside trap.

However the point is that Valencia had to make a decision about whether to track Aguero or not before it was too late. He couldn't leave him to run hoping that Milner would delay the pass as he did. Had Milner run onto the ball and passed it early we might have caught Aguero offside, but that would have been luck not judgement.

At the end of the day, in those situations you make a call, track the runner or leave him. He tracked the runner, which is the less elegant option, but the safer one. And certainly not one I would call an obvious error.

But Smalling doesn't step forward to play offside until Milner delays the pass, Smalling is in control of the situation, Valencia fails to read the situation and it almost cost us.

 

[bishblaize]

But Smalling doesn't step forward to play offside until Milner delays the pass, Smalling is in control of the situation, Valencia fails to read the situation and it almost cost us.

Eh? Smalling gets it horribly wrong. He starts to step up but stops when Aguero is still a yard onside and ends up totally flat footed. In no way is Smalling in control there.

 

[Steven Seagull]

He was caught out a couple of times but he's made a snap decision for the Aguero break and he's got it right. He's quickly weighed up the situation and just decides to forget playing offside and just deal with the threat using his pace. Fair enough in my book

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Anyone have a gif of that tracking all the way to left back along with the tackle to win a goal kick.

 

[bosnian_red]

At what point do we accept he's good enough to remain our right-back and isn't makeshift?

Yep, unless we can get someone like Carvajal, which is highly unlikely, then we just need reliable cover for him, not him to be cover. He's been brilliant and getting better constantly.

 

[bishblaize]

Could Aguero's have done a first touch that would have put him through on goal and Valencia wouldn't have been able to do anything about it?

No he wouldn't have been through on goal because he was in line with the right edge of the 18 yard box, not central, and was at least 35 yards from goal when he miscontrolled, with Valencia 5 yards from him.

However Silva was running unmarked through the middle so had Aguero controlled it properly there was a pass on, albeit its hard to say if it would have been an easy pass. Dangerous situation either way.

 

[ivaldo]

Eh? Smalling gets it horribly wrong. He starts to step up but stops when Aguero is still a yard onside and ends up totally flat footed. In no way is Smalling in control there.

Augero isn't going to beat Smalling in a foot race and he would've stepped up successfully if Valencia hasn't circled around, the only thing he wasn't in control of was Valencia.

 

[bishblaize]

Augero isn't going to beat Smalling in a foot race and he would've stepped up successfully if Valencia hasn't circled around, the only thing he wasn't in control of was Valencia.

Smalling was flat footed and facing the wrong direction, and Aguero was running from deep. Smalling would not be able to turn around and then, from a standing start, catch up the 3 or 4 yards Aguero would have had on him. You're just clutching at straws.

 

[ivaldo]

Smalling was flat footed and facing the wrong direction, and Aguero was running from deep. Smalling would not be able to turn around and then, from a standing start, catch up the 3 or 4 yards Aguero would have had on him. You're just clutching at straws.

But if Valencia wasnt in the wrong position he was offside, he wouldn't have needed to! That's the point of playing offside.

 

[saivet]

Good game from him. He's not been that good that we don't need to replace him with a more natural RB though.

 

[mazhar13]

Its not my fault he can't do the basics of a fullback role. They are very obvious.

How do you think lots of rightbacks make their careers in the game when they arent even close to the athletic ability of Valencia?

They aren't a liability positionally and don't foul throw everytime they are expected to take a throw in - which if you count it, its likely to be like 3 or 4 per half in a decent team. Those are the very basics you are taught at a young age, its not my fault if Valencia foul throws and is out of position all the time. Someone like Phil Bardsley can manage those things, they are very simple.

If anyone seriously thinks all a fullback needs to do is what Valencia does well, make some tackles and make runs, then I dont think they understand football. Its a team game, especially defensively and those are individual things that might catch the eye of the casual observer - same as sprinting back and tackling Aguero, but most of a fullback's game is not going to be a highlight reel. Everytime a fullback steps up and plays Aguero offside instead might not stand out as much, but its far better defending.

I feel like standards for full backs, overall, have fallen nowadays. Now people expect them to be like wingers going forward whilst just dealing with 1-on-1 situations, defensively. There is less of an appreciation for proper up-and-coming full backs nowadays (Lahm-like full backs) with more focus on attacking wing backs.

Honestly, this was a typical Valencia at RB performance, no more, no less.

He's terrible positionally, but he has enough pace and power to make up for it if it's on his side of the pitch. No excuse for going to sleep for the first goal though, that was a lack of effort as well as a lack of intelligence.

Going forwards, it's the same old also. He could burst past virtually any defender if he wanted to, but doesn't do it enough - I was screaming at him to go for it every time David bloody Silva was standing in front of him. End product was same-ish, although very late on he actually got his head up and picked a very good pullback to Mata, who couldn't quite sort his feet out.

I agree. This was a typical Valencia performance. Defensively, he was being dragged around too easily and showed a lack of defensive awareness, but other than the first 25 minutes, he recovered his positions very well with his pace, energy, and strength. This was demonstrated perfectly when he tracked Aguero's run and stopped him from making more out of that chance.

On the ball, he was once again key in helping us keep possession on the right side and linking up with Mata and Herrera. Whenever Milner tried to press him, Valencia maintained possession well, and this created spaces for Mata and Herrera to receive the ball and continue our attacking build-up. He was still a bit too passive going forward, but in this formation and setup, I don't mind it too much, especially since he became more attacking in the second half and put in 1-2 nice deliveries.

In matches against good-quality opposition, I'd rather play a right back who's more defensively reliable than Valencia. We can't keep getting away with Valencia recovering his position all of the time as there will come an instance or two where the opposition will actually punish us for that.

 

[Eugenius]

Smalling was flat footed and facing the wrong direction, and Aguero was running from deep. Smalling would not be able to turn around and then, from a standing start, catch up the 3 or 4 yards Aguero would have had on him. You're just clutching at straws.

Gary Neville immediately called out the mistake, and if there's one person I'd listen to about fullback defending it's him

 

[amolbhatia50k]

His best performance as a right back. Excellent.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Why is he at fault for the first goal? Both him and Smalling tracked their men; Valencia tracks Clichy before Smalling takes over, and he, himself, focuses on Milner. Carrick and Mata simply allow Silva to waltz past them, and Jones is busy ball watching; Blind, too, has a view of Aguero, who's the only City player in the box, so should really call or take charge himself.

As for the offside, who the eff cares? Him and Smalling weren't in sync, but he recovered brilliantly. Nothing came of it, not sure why it's even being discussed.

The Valencia hate makes me sick.

 

[bishblaize]

Gary Neville immediately called out the mistake, and if there's one person I'd listen to about fullback defending it's him

Well Gary calls it how he sees it in the moment, but do watch the replay again before making up your mind. I've seen the replay a bunch of times now and calling it a mistake is harsh. There's a runner coming from deep, Smalling is out of control of the situation and Valencia makes a decision to track the runner. The only reason that Aguero would have been offside is because Milner releases the ball so slowly. If he releases it quickly, Aguero is through, and this whole conversation takes place in the Smalling thread, complaining about his defending.

 

[Rick88]

The Valencia hate here is just

The 2v1 situation where the ball went out for a goal kick was just excellent. Had Rafael been in that position, I'd have half expected a rash challenge and a penalty.
Some posters here do seem to know better and question Valencia at RB. They definitely seem to know more than LvG.

Even admitting that Valencia had a good game (barring the 1st goal) is beyond them. Somehow I don't see any Young bashing as he definitely was at fault for the second.

 

[snk123]

As for the offside, who the eff cares? Him and Smalling weren't in sync, but he recovered brilliantly. Nothing came of it, not sure why it's even being discussed.
The Valencia hate makes me sick.

This. Last match Herrera and Valencia weren't in sync for that move on the right and the caf said it was because Valencia was daft - does not have a footballing brain etc etc. I remember clearly Valencia making that same run today and Herrera not going for that pass.

People here hate the poor guy so much they are blaming the first goal on him when he had no part in it. (Mata/Carrick should have tracked the run) And the Smalling offside trap excuse is just plain ridiculous. He's not a RB - and Rafael is a much better player but atleast cut the guy some slack.

He's a very good footballer - it's evident if you see how well he plays one touch football - not to mention the energy, continous runs up and down.

 

[Welbeckham]

The Valencia hate here is just

The 2v1 situation where the ball went out for a goal kick was just excellent. Had Rafael been in that position, I'd have half expected a rash challenge and a penalty.
Some posters here do seem to know better and question Valencia at RB. They definitely seem to know more than LvG.

Even admitting that Valencia had a good game (barring the 1st goal) is beyond them. Somehow I don't see any Young bashing as he definitely was at fault for the second.

I totally agree. And that that first goal was a result of bad defending from several players, not just Valencia who tends to be blamed for everything. I don't see urgent need to replace him as RB. Incredible athlete with a reasonably good technique. Offensively he isn't as good as he used to be, but decent fullbacks who have no trouble with injuries are really rare.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Let's just play your game and pretend Aguero wouldn't have been able to get his shot away before The Flash gets back in time. He's still one on one against Valencia who is on the back foot and in an unfavourable position, even in this scenario Augero has a great chance to find the net.

Just seen it now on MOTD - Aguero is about 40 yards away from goal when he first touches the ball and wide on the right hand-side. Valencia is about 5-10 yards away from him. Regardless of Aguero's touch, Valencia is getting to him every single time. There isn't even a question about it.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

he had a very good game today....

 

[Ballache]

He had a good second half, was caught out of position too many times in the first. I love how he just bullies players off the ball