I said he'll end up a much, much better player in his prime than Valencia will here. That's not to say he'll be great.
Antonio Valencia
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
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I haven't complained about an United signing in ages (the likes of Miller excluded as they were free), but I really would be underwhelmed to see us sign Valencia.
He's exactly the kind of player I'd expect Rafa to sign in the line of average wingers who did well at smaller clubs, but just don't have the quality to make a difference at a world class club like United.
Naturally I hope he proves me wrong if we do end up buying him.
I'd also find it quite funny if Real went out and splashed a lot of money on him, considering they want to do the whole "Galatico" thing all over again.
He's exactly the kind of player I'd expect Rafa to sign in the line of average wingers who did well at smaller clubs, but just don't have the quality to make a difference at a world class club like United.
Naturally I hope he proves me wrong if we do end up buying him.
I'd also find it quite funny if Real went out and splashed a lot of money on him, considering they want to do the whole "Galatico" thing all over again.
That was nearly a decade ago.
As for Ribery, it depends on how much we've got in the kitty this summer.
I'm going to stick my neck out and say that if he comes here then he will cut it. If he goes to Madrid then he'll fade into obscurity.
true but looking back it was a still a decent price and all it means is 16 million for valencia? is nuts
120million in the kitty when we sell Ronaldo
Yes it is.
Valencia's a good player at the very least.
Being much, much better than good means great.
Or he might get sold and become the next Ronaldo.
Who is to say
He wouldnt be the first player to leave in recent years as a young player and end up being among the best in the world in his position. We've seen what can happen this season when you let quality young prospects go, like with Pique coming back to knock us out of europe.
Oh yeah, piqué playing well in La Liga means we'd be insane to let Nani go. Surprised you didn't mention Forlan.
Anyway, we shpuld probably give the Nani-bashing a res. Iif we do sign Valencia it doesn't necessarily mean curtains for Nani. The elephant in the room here is a possible vacancy on the opposite flank.
Or very, very good. Valencia is okay. One of the top 10 wingers in the premier league.
From the (admittedly little) I have seen of Valencia I am reminded of KanKan. Is that just my hazy memory?
£19m for a player unproven outside of the Netherlands? It was a lot of money back then. Prices have probably doubled over the last decade.true but looking back it was a still a decent price
120million in the kitty when we sell Ronaldo
Deco and Eto'o weren't at the club then, and blaming others for his own mistakes isn't right.
People keep making excuses for him but it's entirely his own fault and you can't just completely change someone's attitude, not even the best man managers can, I'm sure.
Did you miss Pique also playing well in the champions league?
Oh yeah, piqué playing well in La Liga means we'd be insane to let Nani go. Surprised you didn't mention Forlan.
Anyway, we shpuld probably give the Nani-bashing a res. Iif we do sign Valencia it doesn't necessarily mean curtains for Nani. The elephant in the room here is a possible vacancy on the opposite flank.
If Forlan or Rossi go to top clubs there's a chance they'll come back to knock us out of europe too, yes. Given that Forlan is 29 maybe a bit less likely for him but he still has time and given the season he's had it wouldnt be a surprise if he did move to a top club this window.
And if we were to sell Ronaldo, does anyone honestly believe we'd replace him with Luis Antonio Valencia?
I mean really. Come on now.
I find it odd that people are so willing to predict greatness for Nani, while so dismissive about the potential of someone who is only a year older and already putting in much better performances for club and country.
the weird thing was though, we originally agreed around 17million, we tell him he's knackered, he get's injured and a year later the fees increased
The only thing I can say is the dutch league was a bit stronger back then and the dutch at the time were producing quality players
It was a risk but we'd known about him for ages because I think we were tipped off about him but reacted late so we'd probably been monitoring him for 2/3/4 years
Semantics.
Then yes you're the one saying Nani will be very, very good.
I'm just saying he might not be.
Being so sure about a young player who is very unpredictable is silly.
Nani's a few levels above Valencia in terms of technique, he just doesn't use it half as well.
Valencia just seems like a slightly more productive version of Aaron Lennon, for me.
Maybe we would be looking to change the way we play if Ronaldo were to leave? Having a player like Valencia would mean a more direct style and more crosses in the box, where hopefully Berbatov in particular would benefit.
I don't think you can directly replace a player such as Ronaldo as he is unique, and the whole team has been structured around him, creating as many opportunities for him to score/create, without burdening him with too many defensive responsbilities and this has been to the detriment of other players such as Rooney and Berbatov this season.
This has been done to fecking death. Evans was/is better suited to the style of football played in the PL and SAF could only offer enough starts to keep him or Pique happy at the club, so he made the obvious decision.
Rossi and Forlan have also been discussed to death, so I'm not even going there.
The fact remains that none of this is remotely relevant to whether or not Nani will hack it at United and if SAF might be sensible to cut his losses after a really poor season and a less than impressive attitude on the pitch. Personally, I'd like to see Nani get one more year to get his shit together - because he obviously has a lot of potential - but bringing up Pique and Rossi in this conversation has feck all to do with the topic at hand.
We've seen enough to suggest paitence (and this has been in a united shirt) and that is where it is for me. Naturally I hope he shows next season his quality.
He has shown an ability to score 5+ goals a season and I think you need that from wingers. I actually think he could score a lot more but I won't overstate something
If nani comes good we wouldn't need valencia but if we keep on buying without giving players a chance to establish themselves (say another season atleast) - then we're overcrowding the situation and risking the morale of the squad
I also want to see Ronaldo in his favored position as I think it's easier for him to get cut out of games as a forward - and how big a loss is that...
No offense to valencia but feck him. We've tosic for example. I want to see tosic and we've the potential in kids too
Someone like tosic has only played 2 games in the first team and I think it's additionally not good to have too many players in your squad who have something to prove (played few games like nani last season, tosic obviously)
Hunger is different and that's ingrained in the players- continuity is important and if Nani and Tosic establish themselves then we're talking about two 22 year olds with hopefully big futures
You just dont like the player.
I can remember a couple of very promising performances from him for Barcelona and Porto and I've no doubt at all he'd have become a better player if he had come to United. Ronaldo though would be a totally different player if he was the one who went to Barcelona. Certainly more of a dribbler still and nothing like the same physical game or aerial threat. Most likely he wouldnt be anywhere near the same kind of goal threat either. These are all things that Quaresma could have learnt at United and with such great professional veterans around him I'm sure he'd have had most of the same values Ronaldo has had instilled into him over his time here.
I've pointed out several times over this last year, that I do not believe Nani will make it at United, but I still get behind him, as he's a United player, and the criticism he's received from the fans has been way over the top.
Like I've said in the past; I just don't rate Valencia that highly, it's Gamsten-syndrome all over again. I can't see him improving our team by much.
I'd much rather stick with the ones we have now, with Tosic getting better and better and Ljajic coming in the winter.
I think the Madrid angle is nonsense, though they may well have been approached in January when Madrid needed people fast).
Ask Perez about buying Valencia and he'll assume you're talking about the club with two stadiums and two valuable players - he's probably got his bank manager investigating the option as we speak.
Ask Perez about buying Valencia and he'll assume you're talking about the club with two stadiums and two valuable players - he's probably got his bank manager investigating the option as we speak.
We initially agreed a fee of £18m. I think the fee increased due to the medical care he received at PSV.
As for monitoring players. I'm sure Fergie's been monitoring Valencia too. But no player is guaranteed to become a success.
Aye, we were tipped off by Fergie Junior.
People get far too hung up on "technique" in this place. Football free-stylers have great technique. But I wouldn't want them at United. I want people who are good at playing football, who work hard, make the right decisions and do what the manager tells them.
Which would make an excellent Premier League winger, for me.
None of that waffle has anything to do with the one single point I made.
That if you let an obviously quality player go they can come back to haunt you in european competition. Something we've seen this season regardless of who or what we had to come in and replace the player we lost.
I don't mind him, he's just a bit crap, with a crap attitude.
So basically don't ever sell a player because he could comeback and bite you on the arse?
Well done.
Probably because the single point you made was fecking pointless. If we were worried about players "coming back to haunt us" we'd have a first-team squad with several hundred players in it.
But what's the point of keeping someone who would hardly play for you and bring in a substantial transfer fee just because you are concerned that 'maybe' in the future he 'might' play well against you for another club in a different league?
It doesn't make any sense.
I think technique is a fairly big part of 'potential' though. How you use it equates to how good a player you are.
But yeah, I know what you mean.
Hmm, I'm still not sure. But you, Sir Alex and Brophs are good judges of players so if you think he's all that I think I'm just missing a trick.
So if a player demands to leave we can still never sell them? We keep them as slaves for ever? Or kneecap them so they can never come back to haunt us?
We'll have to sell Ronaldo one day as well and he may well come back and beat us in a game. That's football. If a player wants to leave he'll eventually do so.
Christ.
You'd be stupid to sell a young player with obviously brilliant potential. We arent talking Kleberson and Djemba Djemba, or whoever you had on the back of your shirt a number of years ago.
I'd rather we didn't sell Nani this summer and gave him one last season to prove himself. I wouldn't be overly bothered if he did leave though.
im going to be honest and say that i have not seen enough of him to judge, however, i was impressed with him at the game in OT in january. well, a bit anywya.
is he good enought for united?
i am not so sure.
do we need another winger, considering we have signed the 2 serbians?
maybe it would be better to concentrate on a CM to replace scholes and his goals.
is he worth 16million?
i dont think so, regardless of how little i know about him!
if we do sign a winger, then it defo means ronaldo is heading up top.
People talking about Nani and Quaresma should remember that you NEVER know how a player develops. Some are talking about Ronaldo as if we knew all along how good he'll become, and I'm sure we believed he'll be great, but no one figured he'd turn out to be a scoring sensation. It just started happening midway 2006/07, and there we are with a winger who is our top scorer for three years running.
There's no way of knowing. If Ronaldo had gone to Barcelona, maybe he'd have become another Quaresma. Maybe if we signed Quaresma in 2003, he'd have become another Ronaldo. Maybe if we signed Gamst Pedersen a few years back he'd have become a really good player for us. At least as good as Park, for instance. They way players progress and improve when they start playing for better clubs and with better players - Or retreat into their shell and fail - is sometimes nothing more than a guess.
There's no way of knowing. If Ronaldo had gone to Barcelona, maybe he'd have become another Quaresma. Maybe if we signed Quaresma in 2003, he'd have become another Ronaldo. Maybe if we signed Gamst Pedersen a few years back he'd have become a really good player for us. At least as good as Park, for instance. They way players progress and improve when they start playing for better clubs and with better players - Or retreat into their shell and fail - is sometimes nothing more than a guess.
No. Basically, read posts before responding in your overly smarmy cockmunching way -
Nani wouldnt be the first player to leave the club, go on to become a much better player and come back to haunt us in europe.
That doesnt mean dont sell him. But its a factor.
It's a stupid policy to let young talented players go if they have it in them to be first team regulars. A year or two is a long time in football - In 2 years he could be winning the champions league with Real Madrid or playing for Brighton and Hove albion.
But he definately has it in him to be a top winger and a fixture in our starting line up when he's playing the best football of his career. It may be that it takes another 2 seasons before he does in fact cement a place in the lineup, but does that matter if he's fine with working his socks off and being mostly used as a backup in that time?
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