As Rugby refuses to take the knee, is it time the Premier League stopped too?

[WeePat]

Is Racism such a problem in the UK though?

I for one think we have many more problems than Racism, in fact, Id likes to believe racism is something of the past. Sure, I imagine there are still issues surrounding racism but how relevant are they to most peoples lives. I believe there are more divides than colour and Rashford for instance is highlighting that himself.

Black Lives Matter is a Political Movement, Political Movements have no place in Sport.

I grew up as a child on the 80s, I remember the Brixton Riots etc, I would like to think the UK has moved on and grown up since those days. Today we have so many laws enforcing equality that I don't think Racism is in any way the issue it once was in the UK.

If anything I think this "Wokeness" and I will use the term Woke, does more harm than good and highlights a problem that really isn't there anymore from a UK perspective.

There are obstacles to be overcome along class lines, I fully agree, but there are also major obstacles to overcome along racial lines. I find it utterly bizarre, if I'm honest, that your genuine position is there's no systemic class AND race issues in this country.

Don't let the fact that overt in your face racism has decreased over time as a sign that structural racism has been eradicated.

 

[Zexstream]

I’m not convinced you have, on the TV coverage anyway, but you might be right.

I do know that they dropped the BLM badge on the shirts and changed it to “no room for racism”

This article here seems to say they dropped BLM altogether and stopped mentioning it since the start of this season.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....ves-matter-badge-from-shirts-for-own-campaign

Anyway, my sidetracking is slightly irrelevant

So it seems that they have dropped the BLM thing.

Why then are they still taking the knee? I understood that the knee was symbolic to George Floyd, if they are now focusing on Kick Racism out of Football what does taking the knee have to do with anything?

 

[youngrell]

What an awful thread.

Sick and tired of players taking the knee? Fecking diddums. How do you think victims of racism feel? There is a chasm between the level of offence both of these cause, and the fact that you feel aggrieved at the former is evidence enough that more needs to be done to tackle discrimination in this country.

I'm fairly certain that the PL is no longer using BLM as it's message now anyway, rather using a more broad anti-racism message, so the political movement elements has already been removed.

And finally, the fact that taking the knee still prompts every commentator in every game to reiterate the message the players are sending means it is most definitely still worthwhile doing.

 

[SirScholes]

At the weekend the Irish and Scottish Rugby teams refused to take the Knee for BLM.

Surely this cringe show should now end and the silliness of millionaire footballers taking the knee before an empty stadium every week should stop.

Whilst I have sympathies with the problems in the United States I fail to see how millionaire footballers bending the knee each week does anything to help those in the States and certainly is something we have to worry about in the UK.

No matter what your view, BLM is a political Movement, I much prefer we aim to make all lives better no matter, and one thing that Rashford has highlighted in the UK is the divide between the haves and have nots regardless of colour.

I honestly believe this Premier League Wokeness needs to stop, and I fully support the Rugby Teams in taking a stand on this.

https://www.irishpost.com/news/enti...e-before-six-nations-tie-against-wales-203307

“I fail to see”
I think you summed yourself up here

also it is a world wide issue, in just the last few weeks we’ve seen players racially attacked on social media here in the UK!

I hope they continue in the presence of fans

sorry the 1 minute delay to kick off is an inconvenience to you

 

[BarstoolProphet]

So it seems that they have dropped the BLM thing.

Why then are they still taking the knee? I understood that the knee was symbolic to George Floyd, if they are now focusing on Kick Racism out of Football what does taking the knee have to do with anything?

I suggest you read up on where 'taking the knee' hails from before you start mocking it. It was a protest against police brutality and racism in general, later used in many protest touching the same issue, including the George Floyd murder.

 

[Zexstream]

“I fail to see”
I think you summed yourself up here

also it is a world wide issue, in just the last few weeks we’ve seen players racially attacked on social media here in the UK!

I hope they continue in the presence of fans

sorry the 1 minute delay to kick off is an inconvenience to you

I would rather direct action than footballers taking a knee.

If you are someone who sits there smugly thinking they have done their bit for the old racism by watching footballers taking a knee then I feel sorry for you.

Rqashford and shown the way, use your status to get things done.

 

[Bubz27]

You keep saying 'millionaire footballer' as if people having money makes their stance invalid. Or means they can't have empathy.

Did you read @Bubz27 post? There's an example right there for you.

He hasn't responded to a single message I've sent him. He just has this idea that in "his view" things aren't that bad and taking the knee doesn't solve anything. So I tried to show him why I think he's wrong, and he seemingly doesn't want to hear it.

Whilst I think education to eradicate racism is the best and most long lasting way, the party has to be willing to listen to be educated. That doesn't really seem the case here.

 

[Zexstream]

I suggest you read up on where 'taking the knee' hails from before you start mocking it. It was a protest against police brutality and racism in general, later used in many protest touching the same issue, including the George Floyd murder.

The whole issue of taking the knew in Premier League games was only brought about by the killing of George Floyd, would not accept that?

 

[Berbasbullet]

So it seems that they have dropped the BLM thing.

Why then are they still taking the knee? I understood that the knee was symbolic to George Floyd, if they are now focusing on Kick Racism out of Football what does taking the knee have to do with anything?

I’m no expert on the subject but as far as I am aware ‘taking the knee’ was first started before the George Floyd incident, think it was Colin Kaepernick who first took the knee as a protest against systemic racism (I think).

 

[Zexstream]

He hasn't responded to a single message I've sent him. He just has this idea that in "his view" things aren't that bad and taking the knee doesn't solve anything. So I tried to show him why I think he's wrong, and he seemingly doesn't want to hear it.

Whilst I think education to eradicate racism is the best and most long lasting way, the party has to be willing to listen to be educated. That doesn't really seem the case here.

Ask me your question directly now then.

 

[Solius]

He hasn't responded to a single message I've sent him. He just has this idea that in "his view" things aren't that bad and taking the knee doesn't solve anything. So I tried to show him why I think he's wrong, and he seemingly doesn't want to hear it.

Whilst I think education to eradicate racism is the best and most long lasting way, the party has to be willing to listen to be educated. That doesn't really seem the case here.

Yep. He's more interesting in batting back replies than actually learning. Considering the OP is technically a question he's not really taken anything on board.

It's a problem not only with OP but in a lot of society these days. Everyone feels like they have to get the last word in or 'win' the argument.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Yep. He's more interesting in batting back replies than actually learning. Considering the OP is technically a question he's not really taken anything on board.

It's a problem not only with OP but in a lot of society these days. Everyone feels like they have to get the last word in or 'win' the argument.

Completely agree with that last part, and I think we’re all guilty of it at times, we need to consciously reframe our interactions (especially online) as a dialogue as opposed to ‘me versus you’.

 

[M Bison]

So it seems that they have dropped the BLM thing.

Why then are they still taking the knee? I understood that the knee was symbolic to George Floyd, if they are now focusing on Kick Racism out of Football what does taking the knee have to do with anything?

Players taking the knee in the NFL was long before George Floyd.

 

[mu4c_20le]

No matter what your view, BLM is a political Movement, I much prefer we aim to make all lives better no matter, and one thing that Rashford has highlighted in the UK is the divide between the haves and have nots regardless of colour.

Not sure if this has been covered before, but how has your white life been inconvenienced, and how can it be improved?

 

[Zexstream]

Players taking the knee in the NFL was long before George Floyd.

So why did the Premier league start doing it?

 

[SirScholes]

Is Racism such a problem in the UK though?

I for one think we have many more problems than Racism, in fact, Id likes to believe racism is something of the past. Sure, I imagine there are still issues surrounding racism but how relevant are they to most peoples lives. I believe there are more divides than colour and Rashford for instance is highlighting that himself.

Black Lives Matter is a Political Movement, Political Movements have no place in Sport.

I grew up as a child on the 80s, I remember the Brixton Riots etc, I would like to think the UK has moved on and grown up since those days. Today we have so many laws enforcing equality that I don't think Racism is in any way the issue it once was in the UK.

If anything I think this "Wokeness" and I will use the term Woke, does more harm than good and highlights a problem that really isn't there anymore from a UK perspective.

Jesus wept I need to stop reading your posts
Your ignorance on this matter is crazy, what I’m reading is because there aren’t riots or because it’s not effecting you.
Mira still around in the uk, just because it might not be as frequent as you remember doesn’t mean we should take our boot of its throat. It’s needs stamped out

 

[Stacks]

It's not true, it's once again deflecting the attention from the issue itself. "That you're against sexual harassment at work is good and all, but what about the kids in Africa? Why aren't you caring about them?"

Not what I am suggesting. I believe there are different reasons for why they have jumped onto the cause and its more to do with the demographics of the league and keeping us happy as opposed to anything else. As mentioned before we have KickItOut but clearly BLM was picked up by the masses as a trend so the EPL couldn't not jump on board.

 

[L1nk]

My only argument would be, what is actually achieved by them kneeling every match recently anyway? Like what does it actually achieve, oh they kneeled, racism is defeated now. If anything it seems to have emboldened the racists and i'm hearing far more about racist abuse online to footballers since this kneeling started, it's been rife recently.

 

[pablo__p]

What I'm concerned about is the level of aggression towards posters which expressed their concerns with the knee.

You know you can be anti-rasist and don't support the knee, right?

A colleague of mine works in a big non-profit which fights against discrimination and she is strongly against this gesture (and generally "dumb" copy-pasting from the US to Europe).

The problem is, these views cannot be shared in current climate unless you want to get a racist label.

 

[Adisa]

Taking a knee does nothing, the whole thing is pointless to me, we need heavy punishments for those we are racist or condone it, not players kneeling down as a sign to oppose it. Everyone should oppose racism and taking a knee has nothing to do with actual getting rid of racism. I find it all strange

Punishing racists is up to the authorities. Taking the knee is up to the players. It is a gesture meant to bring attention to a matter. Regardless of the effectiveness, it should be up to the players.
Anyone pushing for the players yo stop needs to look at themselves.

Some of the posts in this thread are clear evidence that racism remains very much a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

This. These guys don't even understand the concept, never mind changing their opinions.

 

[mu4c_20le]

My only argument would be, what is actually achieved by them kneeling every match recently anyway? Like what does it actually achieve, oh they kneeled, racism is defeated now. If anything it seems to have emboldened the racists and i'm hearing far more about racist abuse online to footballers since this kneeling started, it's been rife recently.

If it's triggering them then it's doing something right. Its purpose is not to appease.

 

[Bubz27]

Ask me your question directly now then.

What question? You asked a question, I gave a response. It's been referenced to you 3 times by other posters, that's if you don't include my posting it a reference in the first place.

If you want, it's one the first page. But I won't reply to anything you say after this. Just so you know going into it.

 

[Nick7]

What I'm concerned about is the level of aggression towards posters which expressed their concerns with the knee.

You know you can be anti-rasist and don't support the knee, right?

A colleague of mine works in a big non-profit which fights against discrimination and she is strongly against this gesture (and generally "dumb" copy-pasting from the US to Europe).

The problem is, these views cannot be shared in current climate unless you want to get a racist label.

What is the actual problem with them taking a knee though?

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Punishing racists is up to the authorities. Taking the knee is up to the players. It is a gesture meant to bring attention to a matter. Regardless of the effectiveness, it should be up to the players.
Anyone pushing for the players yo stop needs to look at themselves.

Never pushed the players to stop, simply questioned what effect it is having, if any?

 

[Manoucha09]

If anything more needs to be done than just taking the knee. What taking the knee does is it highlights the issue and keeps it relevant to all those watching, an almost daily reminder of the struggles of racism. However, it's becoming more and more a 'routine' as opposed to the strong message it started it out as.

Saying that, I believe it's up to the players to decide and, as far as I have heard and seen, they unanimously agree to continue taking the knee. Why force them to stop if they're willing to keep it going?

Something needs to change though. Might be for another thread, but people can't be allowed to hide behind social media accounts posting racist messages without any consequences. Authorities need to take action against the racists (and indeed social media companies) which is more important in my opinion and, while it's great that footballers are happy to play their role in highlighting the issue, this is simply not the footballers' job.

 

[Bubz27]

What I'm concerned about is the level of aggression towards posters which expressed their concerns with the knee.

You know you can be anti-rasist and don't support the knee, right?

A colleague of mine works in a big non-profit which fights against discrimination and she is strongly against this gesture (and generally "dumb" copy-pasting from the US to Europe).

The problem is, these views cannot be shared in current climate unless you want to get a racist label.

Is that your big concern is it?

I think people are more annoyed by someone saying racism is a thing of the past in the UK. Saying it isn't racist to racially abuse someone because your intention was only to unsettle them because of their football club. And then point blank refusing to listen when someone who IS (not has been) a victim of racial abuse in England, and plenty of others, want to educate that person.

In that instance, people will get a little annoyed.

Personally, I think it says more about you that that's your problem, not someone saying racism doesn't exist in this country anymore.

 

[El Jefe]

The OP was a bit of a horror show but I do agree that it's time for it to stop. I don't really see the impact or significance of it anymore.

Its at a point where I'm like hurry up and get up so the match can start. This doesn't mean I'm unsympathetic to the sentiment behind it, I just feel its usefulness has run its course.

 

[Nick7]

Never pushed the players to stop, simply questioned what effect it is having, if any?

It’s getting people talking about it and shedding light on the issues that are behind it.

 

[Ødegaard]

Quick answer to those who asks what bending the knee does:

Tons of impressionable kids see their heroes all agree that racism has no place in their football family, and they are reminded about that every game they watch.

 

[Ananke]

What I'm concerned about is the level of aggression towards posters which expressed their concerns with the knee.

You know you can be anti-rasist and don't support the knee, right?

A colleague of mine works in a big non-profit which fights against discrimination and she is strongly against this gesture (and generally "dumb" copy-pasting from the US to Europe).

The problem is, these views cannot be shared in current climate unless you want to get a racist label.

The only reason someone should be against an act which is primarily to keep awareness up on racism, is if that act is actually becoming detrimental to the subject it's trying to raise. There's is literally NO other reason. If people want to raise points like "it's losing it's meaning" or "athletes are just doing it for social media", I can somewhat see the main focus being lost for the cause.

But to say "It needs to stop because there's other things we can do" or "It's not solving racism" or "It's annoying me". They are nonsensical points. As long as it keeps bringing awareness to the subject and keeps people talking about it...then it's doing it's job because that in itself is a positive outcome.

 

[2mufc0]

My only argument would be, what is actually achieved by them kneeling every match recently anyway? Like what does it actually achieve, oh they kneeled, racism is defeated now. If anything it seems to have emboldened the racists and i'm hearing far more about racist abuse online to footballers since this kneeling started, it's been rife recently.

You clearly don't understand why the knee is taken. Nobody ever claimed it would 'defeat racism'.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I agree, I mean racism is annoying sure, but I'm sick and tired of having to wait another 10 seconds while these snowflake footballing millionairs take a knee. It's virtue signalling gone wild!

I've done my own research and some white people are poor so racism doesnt exist anyway.

Am I doing this right? Just asking questions..

PS
I wanted to include cultural Marxism into the post, but couldn't find an angle.

 

[Nick7]

I agree, I mean racism is annoying sure, but I'm sick and tired of having to wait another 10 seconds while this snowflake football millionairs taking a knee.

I've done my own research and some white people are poor so racism doesnt exist anyway.

Am I doing this right? Just asking questions..

Almost, you forgot “this who accuse others of racism are the real racists”.

 

[2mufc0]

Quick answer to those who asks what bending the knee does:

Tons of impressionable kids see their heroes all agree that racism has no place in their football family, and they are reminded about that every game they watch.

And this really had to be explained.

It really makes me think these people have ulterior motives. It really isn't that big of a deal to take a knee for a few seconds.

 

[Solius]

My only argument would be, what is actually achieved by them kneeling every match recently anyway? Like what does it actually achieve, oh they kneeled, racism is defeated now. If anything it seems to have emboldened the racists and i'm hearing far more about racist abuse online to footballers since this kneeling started, it's been rife recently.

You're so close.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

It’s getting people talking about it and shedding light on the issues that are behind it.

Get your point, just feel there are lots of issues in life that are prevalent in football including a lot of phobias but we don't take a knee for those, anyway back on subject.

The aim of the knee is surely to stop racism indirectly, not to just to make people talk, for those thinking this will affect impressionable kids, I'd wager it wouldn't as much as their parents opinion, I stated earlier but I think there are more serious ways of prevention such as walking off, donating to charities that directly fight this sort of thing, it's all a bit passive for me,

I'm not opposing it just question it's effectiveness.

 

[do.ob]

My only argument would be, what is actually achieved by them kneeling every match recently anyway? Like what does it actually achieve, oh they kneeled, racism is defeated now. If anything it seems to have emboldened the racists and i'm hearing far more about racist abuse online to footballers since this kneeling started, it's been rife recently.

Isn't that a bit like saying about a memorial statue: "well everyone has seen it now, so what's the point. might as well tear it down again"? It means this wasn't just last summer's fad, it keeps the topic alive to a degree and I imagine it still means something to the people it is intended to support. Isn't this thread proof of that?

And regarding to your second sentence: is that because more abuse gets leveled at players or is it, because society is more concerned with racial abuse on twitter these days?

 

[Adisa]

My only argument would be, what is actually achieved by them kneeling every match recently anyway? Like what does it actually achieve, oh they kneeled, racism is defeated now. If anything it seems to have emboldened the racists and i'm hearing far more about racist abuse online to footballers since this kneeling started, it's been rife recently.

That's a good thing. Let the racists expose themselves and lets have a proper discussion.

Never pushed the players to stop, simply questioned what effect it is having, if any?

Never said you pushed for it. I was speaking generally.
For the players, it is a gesture to raise awareness and the fact we are having this debate shows it is working to a degree.
The people claiming players should stop because it hasn't solved anything are being disingenuous. It was never meant to solve racism.
Even if it didn't raise awareness Why should players taking a knee bother some as much as it has? Since they aren't interested, it shouldn't bother them.
I think the people who are triggered by it expose themselves for who they really are.

 

[2mufc0]

I agree, I mean racism is annoying sure, but I'm sick and tired of having to wait another 10 seconds while these snowflake footballing millionairs take a knee. It's virtue signalling gone wild!

I've done my own research and some white people are poor so racism doesnt exist anyway.

Am I doing this right? Just asking questions..

PS
I wanted to include cultural Marxism into the post, but couldn't find an angle.

You're too woke my man. Whiny liberal.

 

[Rado_N]

The OP was a bit of a horror show but I do agree that it's time for it to stop. I don't really see the impact or significance of it anymore.

Its at a point where I'm like hurry up and get up so the match can start. This doesn't mean I'm unsympathetic to the sentiment behind it, I just feel its usefulness has run its course.

I’m struggling to find suitable words here...