BluesJr
Owns the moral low ground
- Joined
- May 15, 2013
- Messages
- 9,052
If you don’t believe the managers we’ve had aren’t completely to blame for our problems in the last five years or so then there’s nothing really to discuss.
When the manager falls out with the likes of Martial and Pogba, then you can see why the board is hesitant to back the manager.I know this forum is very quick to jump at anyone just insisting that Mourinho is not to blame for all our problems, but if the board is refusing to spend money on the targets he thinks would improve us (and they actually probably would looking the quality of our squad) then that's that and a large part of the blame should be aimed at the board should we not improve next season.
What does the board know about football?Why shouldn't the board question the managers targets? We all question them and it's not even our money at risk.
That's problem though. Building from within works well when you have a manager suited to doing it. Ours has always been about spending and instant/big (and usually success) impact. When it comes to developing our young talents you only have to see how well Martial, Rashford and TFM are doing in our first team to judge him at it. His football is methodical, disciplined and cautious, and demands a certain type of player. So I'm not sure hiring Mourinho and then clipping his wings is correct even though I understand our board being cautious.LVG didn't fail to convince the board to improve the squad. LVG spent a fortune - just as Mourinho has - and wasted most of it. I can't believe the board is still taking criticism for our failings. Our managers have been backed as much as they could expect and they have wasted so much of the money they've been given, and then they expect to be given even more money to fix their mistakes. It's not sustainable and it's just not on.
Here we are again though. We've just sold Blind, a player our last manager wasted money on. We're going to sell Darmian, a player our last manager wasted money on. We look set to get rid of Martial, a player our last manager signed. We want to sell Shaw, a player our last manager signed. We've already sold one of Mourinho's signings (Mkhitaryan) and I wouldn't be surprised if a few more of his signings are referred to as deadwood in a season or two.
The amount of money we have pissed away is quite incredible tbh, and we don't look an awful lot better than we did when Ferguson left. If I owned United I would be fuming at how my money was being spent so poorly. I don't know how anyone can defend Mourinho over the board.
We have the same model we had under Fergie. We have no football experts on the board.Why shouldn't the board question the managers targets? We all question them and it's not even our money at risk.
If that is true, why does he continue to play them in preference to his own signings of Bailly and Lindelöf?Woodward is incompetent - that’s the only thing to cull from the whole mess. He’s never really backed José. Jose is a successful manager who’s won big things wherever he’s been.
He’s worked with some of the best players the world has had to offer. There’s no way Jose thinks Smalling/Jones are quality or there are training methods that will suddenly make them world class players.
The club makes more than enough money to remove the deadweights and buy quality players Jose wants - if such dream isn’t achieved, the fault lies at the doorstep of Woodward. We are the only rich club in Europe with dud players.
Some fair points, though what seems most ludicrous to me about right wing is that we haven't apparently found anyone from Sanchez, Martial, Rashford, Lingard or Mata that can do well there, or at least not consistently... I am not convinced this is a player recruitment issue tbh. Or if it is, then bringing in Sanchez was a big mistake. Martial's form on the left last season was good, so was Lingard's behind the striker... if Sanchez can't play on the right (I am not at all convinced of that) then we should not have got him.We weren't good enough to challenge last year and Mourinho tends to need to purchase to win titles and improve. The are where were furthest behind City was in attack. To address that we've added, wait for it, nobody. So obviously people are going to be concerned with our transfer window thus far. We've signed a CM and a young RB.
A good example that highlights the cconcerns is the right wing position. We have nobody of real quality and havent for years. It's absurd how poor we've been addressing this area. It's like SAF and central midfielders except we were winning back then so he could stick two fingers at anyone who suggested he was sleeping.
Let's use Willian for example. Just imagine the next manager says he doesn't want him for any reason. How much are we going to sell a 31/32 year old for?If the rumoured targets are correct, the likes of Willian and Sandro are high level players. Even if Mourinho is to leave, the next manager is working with top players. It’s not like he is targetting players like Andy Carroll.
But Ferguson proved he could be trusted. Jose has only been here 2 seasons and he's already wasted money. He's mismanaged a highly rated £60m player to the point he's desperate to leave, and there's rumours of Pogba being unhappy with the manager. The football we play is abysmal too. Can't say I'd be in a hurry to hand Mourinho another warchest to spend.We have the same model we had under Fergie. We have no football experts on the board.
If the owners want to limit the manager's influence on transfers, they should hire a DOF or appoint someone who knows anything about football to sit on that board.
You win some you lose some. If they are that worried about Mourinho being here or not next year they should just sack him now. There is no point in being this half hearted with the transfers. We are setting up to fail by being indecisive.Let's use Willian for example. Just imagine the next manager says he doesn't want him for any reason. How much are we going to sell a 31/32 year old for?
Think that's the board's reasoning. And why they won't even bother paying what Chelsea would want.
Sanchez seemed the logical choice to me but we seem he'll bent on making him our left winger/number 10/playmaker/Mr Manchester so I guess we'll continue to have make do right wingers like Mata/Lingard and strikers who hate playing there.Some fair points, though what seems most ludicrous to me about right wing is that we haven't apparently found anyone from Sanchez, Martial, Rashford, Lingard or Mata that can do well there, or at least not consistently... I am not convinced this is a player recruitment issue tbh. Or if it is, then bringing in Sanchez was a big mistake. Martial's form on the left last season was good, so was Lingard's behind the striker... if Sanchez can't play on the right (I am not at all convinced of that) then we should not have got him.
Also I honestly don't think it is realistic for us to boost the squad enough to get close to City at the moment. Who could we buy to do that? We might be better off giving some more emphasis to developing our current players towards this end than looking for a quick fix, unless a real diamond is available and I am not sure I can see that.
I agree. My personal opinion is to bite the bullet and sign his players but that's my view as a fan. The money men might not agree.You win some you lose some. If they are that worried about Mourinho being here or not next year they should just sack him now. There is no point in being this half hearted with the transfers. We are setting up to fail by being indecisive.
The point is that United operate with a certain structure. The footballing decisions, including who the club targets, is the manager's department.But Ferguson proved he could be trusted. Jose has only been here 2 seasons and he's already wasted money. He's mismanaged a highly rated £60m player to the point he's desperate to leave, and there's rumours of Pogba being unhappy with the manager. The football we play is abysmal too. Can't say I'd be in a hurry to hand Mourinho another warchest to spend.
I remember being more than a little bemused when we extended his contract mid-season. You would think we at least wait a few months to see how the season pans out surely.Why renew to a manager you will not be able to support? We are fecking mess.
This situation is far from healthy.When the manager falls out with the likes of Martial and Pogba, then you can see why the board is hesitant to back the manager.
Agree with this. he bought two cbs alreadyChelsea stopped giving him money too. That ended well. Suppose it had something to do with get me John Stones at any price; but Jose why don’t you just develop Christensen? Get me a new left back; we just brought you Phillip Luiz last season Jose, no good?
Now it’s get me Willian at any price; whilst Martial just sits there looking lost.
What about his attitude and body language. Granted, none of us are experts at reading but he doesn’t strike me as a particularly happy man right now.It's not really that big of a rumour. The only two people I've heard say Jose is unhappy are Castles and that Philib guy.
Great!! Lets throw out the current most decorated manager for a 22 yr old sloth. That sounds logical!!Hopefully the board stands tall and Martial stays and Jose walks.
To me it looks more like a man under pressure, not unhappy. He knows with the squad we have finishing above City would be a miracle and if he gets sacked again, there are not many big clubs he could go to.What about his attitude and body language. Granted, none of us are experts at reading but he doesn’t strike me as a particularly happy man right now.
That's because Woody got conned He's in a bind now. Jose was very methodical about the way he went about making noise in getting an extension. I'd seen it the season before at Chelsea with him. Do you think he really admired PSG when he came out with that nonsense? I think we were having an ok period as well and Woody probably wanted him to shut up and thought there can't be much harm in giving him a short extension under the circumstances. Got totally manipulated there.I remember being more than a little bemused when we extended his contract mid-season. You would think we at least wait a few months to see how the season pans out surely.
I think Mourinho will go and not Ed. I see Jose as more dispensable to the Glazers than someone like Woodward.That's because Woody got conned He's in a bind now. Jose was very methodical about the way he went about making noise in getting an extension. I'd seen it the season before at Chelsea with him. Do you think he really admired PSG when he came out with that nonsense? I think we were having an ok period as well and Woody probably wanted him to shut up and thought there can't be much harm in giving him a short extension under the circumstances. Got totally manipulated there.
Even if Ed now has misgivings, won't the Glazers be scrutinising him now? They followed his judgment in granting the extension. To get rid of him right this moment means a huge pay off. Unless things are so dire, I can't somehow seeing the Glazers being happy about that. It was for Ed to find a way to head off Jose and wait until the end of the season before deciding on an extension. Now he's fecked I reckon.
I get what you're saying and it mostly makes sense but I do think it falls a little bit short. The board are the ones who appointed Moyes and LVG and then proceeded to back them in whatever they wanted to do. If they don't trust Mourinho then what's the point? They either need a DoF or some sort of bridge between managers or else this will keep happening each time we fire and hire a new manager. I know this isn't exactly what you're saying but it basically reads as Jose is being punished for the bad spending of previous managers - if that's the case then who could blame Jose for being pissed off.LVG didn't fail to convince the board to improve the squad. LVG spent a fortune - just as Mourinho has - and wasted most of it. I can't believe the board is still taking criticism for our failings. Our managers have been backed as much as they could expect and they have wasted so much of the money they've been given, and then they expect to be given even more money to fix their mistakes. It's not sustainable and it's just not on.
Here we are again though. We've just sold Blind, a player our last manager wasted money on. We're going to sell Darmian, a player our last manager wasted money on. We look set to get rid of Martial, a player our last manager signed. We want to sell Shaw, a player our last manager signed. We've already sold one of Mourinho's signings (Mkhitaryan) and I wouldn't be surprised if a few more of his signings are referred to as deadwood in a season or two.
The amount of money we have pissed away is quite incredible tbh, and we don't look an awful lot better than we did when Ferguson left. If I owned United I would be fuming at how my money was being spent so poorly. I don't know how anyone can defend Mourinho over the board.
Yes of course. However because he gave him that extension, even if he now thought we need to get rid of the manager, he'd need to convince the Glazers to pay out a lot of money due to that extension. Ed might be making them money, but they won't be happy if he needlessly fecks up like this. Ed is in a kind of a bind. However, I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually.I think Mourinho will go and not Ed. I see Jose as more dispensable to the Glazers than someone like Woodward.
The Glazers probably think he’s doing a fantastic job based on $$$
I don't agree that the board either give Mourinho whatever he wants or they sack him. There's a middle ground where they say enough is enough, make do with what you have. Is Mourinho getting the most out of the players he already has? Not even close. If he were then sure, give him more money to improve. But the board are within their right to expect more from what he's already been given, and what he inherited. We have some good players in the team who are made to look rubbish due to his horrible tactics. Spending more money isn't going to fix that.I get what you're saying and it mostly makes sense but I do think it falls a little bit short. The board are the ones who appointed Moyes and LVG and then proceeded to back them in whatever they wanted to do. If they don't trust Mourinho then what's the point? They either need a DoF or some sort of bridge between managers or else this will keep happening each time we fire and hire a new manager. I know this isn't exactly what you're saying but it basically reads as Jose is being punished for the bad spending of previous managers - if that's the case then who could blame Jose for being pissed off.
The board has backed him with funds though. It's him that chose to spend big getting another LW in Sanchez in instead of addressing the obvious issue on the other flank. Funnily enough, Mahrez was available at the same time and would have been superb for us. The problem area was so damn obvious that even randomers on the internet thought Sanchez was being signed for the right wing.We weren't good enough to challenge last year and Mourinho tends to need to purchase to win titles and improve. The are where were furthest behind City was in attack. To address that we've added, wait for it, nobody. So obviously people are going to be concerned with our transfer window thus far. We've signed a CM and a young RB.
A good example that highlights the cconcerns is the right wing position. We have nobody of real quality and havent for years. It's absurd how poor we've been addressing this area. It's like SAF and central midfielders except we were winning back then so he could stick two fingers at anyone who suggested he was sleeping.
When you look at the budget we're operating with it isn't actually that far behind City. The only difference is City have mostly spent very well, and we haven't.The board has backed him with funds though. It's him that chose to spend big getting another LW in Sanchez in instead of addressing the obvious issue on the other flank. Funnily enough, Mahrez was available at the same time and would have been superb for us. The problem area was so damn obvious that even randomers on the internet thought Sanchez was being signed for the right wing.
They have backed Mourinho but given we aren't a Psg or a City, we have a budget within which we needs to operate. So if you buy a 3rd left winger instead of a first choice right winger, that's on you. You can't come back in the summer saying Hey, I'd like a right winger too now and you know the 35mil I spent on a CB last summer who I barely played? Yeah I want another guy there too. Oh and yes, I also want rid of the Martials and would like to stock up on the Perisics and Willians.
They're probably even questioning the wisdom of giving him big money when he's unable to get anywhere close to the best out of what he already has and that's sensible too. Its not a great scenario to be in as fans but that's how it is and why some have been saying for a while now that he won't be able to take us ahead as a club.
One can hope and pray.The season hasn't even started and we're in semi turmoil. Start the new manager search now and save us a season of shitness.
At that point they should just sack him. We're not achieving anything with this squad and that's the bottom line. If they don't trust Jose to make the right signings, get someone else and see how that works out for us.When the manager falls out with the likes of Martial and Pogba, then you can see why the board is hesitant to back the manager.
What turmoil?The season hasn't even started and we're in semi turmoil. Start the new manager search now and save us a season of shitness.
"The board are United in their overwhelming relief that Marouane Fellaini decided to sign a new contract"What are the most recent quotes by anyone on the board?
This is what Arsenal have been doing for a while now and it's made their board members a lot of money.Daniel Harris is suggesting on Twitter that the Glazers are happy with the squad as is knowing it's good enough for top four so they're unwilling to splash the cash needed to take us up another level.
Seems believable enough honestly.
Funniest post in this thread."The board are United in their overwhelming relief that Marouane Fellaini decided to sign a new contract"