Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Honest John]

Who is blaming the UK for leaving? At worst other member states are fed up with the UK's indecision but not for leaving. Also art.50 is irrelevant, you keep using it for absolutely no good reason, a country can secede however he wants, there are zero safeguards possible.

Kentonio suggests that everyone in the EU is pissed off because of the spending they've had to do to mitigate the UK leaving. That is what I am responding to.

You are making an argument where none exists.

I know what the case is with A50 but was suggesting that others complaining about the money they've spent because a member nation has exercised it's legal right to leave is a bit circular when all EU nations were responsible for the laying the law in the first place.

As for indecision. You yourself have alluded to the fact that this is everything to the UK and only something to each of the other 27. So it will take what it takes and if it isn't finished on time we'll either go out on WTO or A50 will be extended.

 

[afrocentricity]

Kentonio suggests that everyone in the EU is pissed off because of the spending they've had to do to mitigate the UK leaving. That is what I am responding to.

You are making an argument where none exists.

I know what the case is with A50 but was suggesting that others complaining about the money they've spent because a member nation has exercised it's legal right to leave is a bit circular when all EU nations were responsible for the laying the law in the first place.

As for indecision. You yourself have alluded to the fact that this is everything to the UK and only something to each of the other 27. So it will take what it takes and if it isn't finished on time we'll either go out on WTO or A50 will be extended.

It's just a lot of excuses for a shitshow mate. It is what it is, let's hope for the best, but there is no point dishing out blame and crying over what other countries may or may not think... Suck it up.

 

[Kentonio]

Kentonio suggests that everyone in the EU is pissed off because of the spending they've had to do to mitigate the UK leaving. That is what I am responding to.

You are making an argument where none exists.

I know what the case is with A50 but was suggesting that others complaining about the money they've spent because a member nation has exercised it's legal right to leave is a bit circular when all EU nations were responsible for the laying the law in the first place.

As for indecision. You yourself have alluded to the fact that this is everything to the UK and only something to each of the other 27. So it will take what it takes and if it isn't finished on time we'll either go out on WTO or A50 will be extended.

No, I’m saying they’re going to be angry if the UK fecks the whole thing up by crashing out with no proper arrangements in place, costing everyone a large amount of money for absolutely no reason other than the UK’s own incompetence.

 

[Honest John]

It's just a lot of excuses for a shitshow mate. It is what it is, let's hope for the best, but there is no point dishing out blame and crying over what other countries may or may not think... Suck it up.

Lets list the reasons why we think the people of the UK voted to leave:

They're deluded.
They're idiots.
They are bigots and racists.
The poor there just wanted to give the government a bloody nose.
They were lied to.
They.....
They.....
They.....

 

[afrocentricity]

Lets list the reasons why we think the people of the UK voted to leave:

They're deluded.
They're idiots.
They are bigots and racists.
The poor there just wanted to give the government a bloody nose.
They were lied to.
They.....
They.....
They.....

 

[Abizzz]

Lets list the reasons why we think the people of the UK voted to leave:

They're deluded.
They're idiots.
They are bigots and racists.
The poor there just wanted to give the government a bloody nose.
They were lied to.
They.....
They.....
They.....

Only brexiteers would post pictures photoshopped that badly.

 

[Honest John]

Who, in the EU, is seriously looking at the state of the union and asking questions as to why one of it's biggest members has elected to seemingly prefer to cut off its nose to spite its face rather than stay in?

 

[Honest John]

Only brexiteers would post pictures photoshopped that badly.

I'm not a brexiteer. I wanted to stay in. But I'm getting a little cheesed off with the almost total attitude in this thread that the EU has nothing to answer for.

 

[afrocentricity]

Who, in the EU, is seriously looking at the state of the union and asking questions as to why one of it's biggest members has elected to seemingly prefer to cut off its nose to spite its face rather than stay in?

Because that member has a problem with freedom of movement and EU governance? What else is there and why is it relevant to the other members? I may be missing something...

 

[Honest John]

Because that member has a problem with freedom of movement and EU governance? What else is there and why is it relevant to the other members? I may be missing something...

The UK is not the only member with issues about FOM and governance.

 

[Stick]

The UK is not the only member with issues about FOM and governance.

But they are the only member who have voted to leave and cannot decide on what that means.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

The UK is not the only member with issues about FOM and governance.

France has no problem with British people moving about in France , they have a few issues with the french government but unlike the UK we're not governed by the EU.

 

[Honest John]

But they are the only member who have voted to leave and cannot decide on what that means.

Deciding on what it means is immaterial. The UK will leave one way or another. Who, in the EU is seriously asking why?

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Deciding on what it means is immaterial. The UK will leave one way or another. Who, in the EU is seriously asking why?

Because they always have wanted special treatment, not only that, they still want special treatment after they have left.

 

[Klopper76]

Lets list the reasons why we think the people of the UK voted to leave:

They're deluded.
They're idiots.
They are bigots and racists.
The poor there just wanted to give the government a bloody nose.
They were lied to.
They.....
They.....
They.....

All of those are legitimate reasons why some people voted to leave the EU.

Immigration was a huge issue for the older generation and others.

Lies were told by both sides but the Leave campaign has been found guilty of breaking the law during the referendum.

There are a large number of stupid people in the UK.

There are large number of bigots and racists in the UK.

There are some very frustrated people who feel like the areas they live in are declining. Instead of blaming the Tories they've been sold the lie that it's all the EU's fault.

 

[Sassy Colin]

I'm not a brexiteer. I wanted to stay in. But I'm getting a little cheesed off with the almost total attitude in this thread that the EU has nothing to answer for.

The EU has plenty to answer for. It is such a gravy train that, for the past 20, 30 or god knows how many years, no one has decided to say "Hold on a minute, aren't MEPs wasting a shit load of money here?" the UK included. The EU accounts have been qualified every year that they have been produced.

However, we are never going to change that from the outside and it has gone on so long that there is no will to change it from the inside either.

The choice is the country being run by a bunch of totally and utterly incompetent MPs in Westminster or little bits of it by a bunch of incompetent (deliberately omitting totally and utterly btw) bureaucrats in Brussels.

However, the leavers have tried to say we can't do a single thing without the EU say so, which is complete bollocks. We can run the most important things which matter to the majority of British people without the interference of Brussels, apart from maintaining standards of safety, and such like. All the times that Europe has intervened in matters of safety and British people complained, those same people would not dream of removing those safety nets now. People cried about standards about shapes of bananas and cucumbers, but fought tooth and nail to protect pies in Melton Mowbrey, or some shit that only really matter to residents of Melton Mowbery.

I have run out of steam.

 

[P-Nut]

Deciding on what it means is immaterial. The UK will leave one way or another. Who, in the EU is seriously asking why?

Has anyone in the UK even asked why? On most polls it seems sovereignty is the highest reason, however we're currently in the process of basically copying most of the laws we've had in place with the EU.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Has anyone in the UK even asked why? On most polls it seems sovereignty is the highest reason, however we're currently in the process of basically copying most of the laws we've had in place with the EU.

Exactly, and we can't reasonably get rid of any of those laws.

 

[P-Nut]

Exactly, and we can't reasonably get rid of any of those laws.

But they're now written by British folk so it's all good.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Deciding on what it means is immaterial. The UK will leave one way or another. Who, in the EU is seriously asking why?

We all know why. A majority of people, along wih politicians and media owners are fundamentaly against what the EU stands for. This is not about reform, the simply dont believe in the EU.

 

[Reiver]

Has anyone in the UK even asked why? On most polls it seems sovereignty is the highest reason, however we're currently in the process of basically copying most of the laws we've had in place with the EU.

We are right now but it's probably the easiest thing to do. Give the Right some time though and they'll chip away at things like workers rights, environmental law...basically anything that lets business make more money.

 

[711]

We are right now but it's probably the easiest thing to do. Give the Right some time though and they'll chip away at things like workers rights, environmental law...basically anything that lets business make more money.

Why do you assume the UK's government will be to the right of the EU's? Isn't it equally possible that over the next thirty years it could be to the left, and enhancing all those things?

For the record I think it's better to have shared laws over those items, I'm just questioning your assumption.

 

[Buster15]

I'm not a brexiteer. I wanted to stay in. But I'm getting a little cheesed off with the almost total attitude in this thread that the EU has nothing to answer for.

Yes. I feel that way as well.
Like you I voted to remain; not because of any affinity with the EU. Rather because I felt that the timing was completely wrong.
We are still feeling the long term effects of the global financial crisis and any adverse affect on the economy could drive us back into recession.

I do believe that there is not enough balance in terms of the pro's and con's of the EU.
The vast majority of the posts I read are saying in effect that it is only the UK that doesn't appreciate the EU and what it represents.

I struggle to believe that the EU as a Union are not disappointed that the UK is about to leave and don't regret not doing more to make it more attractive. Not just for us but for all.

Now. I fully expect to get a response saying that nobody else cares whether we remain or leave and the EU has been more than generous in agreeing a to a fantastic WA.

 

[4bars]

There is a big difference on:

How Brexit will affect UK and how it will affect the 27 countries on the EU
How much the supply chain, specific products and services will be affected in the UK and how it will affect the 27 countries on the EU
In the politicians from the 27 talking sometimes about Brexit and talking all the time and using Brexit to deflect their problems (no is not happening not even in the NL)

Some countries will be affected more than others for Brexit, like NL, but not remotely as much as the UK will be affected. Sure there is talks, but not like politicians are using Brexit to deflect anything. Is a matter of percentages. is quite easy to see

Also, the 27 have the EU institution to back the countries up, and I am sure the EU will be particularly invested to make a success on the responses on Brexit to show off that everything is covered and try to be seen as all powerful union not needing anyone, not even a big economy like the brittish

 

[4bars]

I'm not a brexiteer. I wanted to stay in. But I'm getting a little cheesed off with the almost total attitude in this thread that the EU has nothing to answer for.

I am in the opposite. I wanted the UK to stay, but as the day passes, I can't wait for you to crash out, if it only would not be for the people that will suffer

Edit: not in the opposite of remain, but the reasons of the change

 

[Buster15]

But they are the only member who have voted to leave and cannot decide on what that means.

True.
But it is not as if there is a tried and tested process of leaving.
The reality is that both sides are learning by doing.

The primary problem is that of the border in Ireland which is proving far more complex than at first glance.

 

[Buster15]

Because they always have wanted special treatment, not only that, they still want special treatment after they have left.

You say special treatment.
Others would argue fair treatment.

It is perfectly natural that the leaders of any country in a Union should try to get the best possible conditions for its own people.

I trust that you are not trying to say that it is only the UK that wants this and the other 27 are perfectly compliant and don't attempt to improve its conditions.

 

[4bars]

You say special treatment.
Others would argue fair treatment.

It is perfectly natural that the leaders of any country in a Union should try to get the best possible conditions for its own people.

I trust that you are not trying to say that it is only the UK that wants this and the other 27 are perfectly compliant and don't attempt to improve its conditions.

AS well the EU want the best (or the least worse) of the outcome of Brexit and this doesn't stop brexiteers to say that the EU is bullying UK.

 

[JPRouve]

You say special treatment.
Others would argue fair treatment.

It is perfectly natural that the leaders of any country in a Union should try to get the best possible conditions for its own people.

I trust that you are not trying to say that it is only the UK that wants this and the other 27 are perfectly compliant and don't attempt to improve its conditions.

This makes no sense, first the UK haven't been unfairly treated and secondly if you want to change things that affects everyone you need to convince a majority or all members. That's the entire issue here, some seem to think that they can just demand and the other members have to oblige whether it suits them or not.

 

[Abizzz]

I'm not a brexiteer. I wanted to stay in. But I'm getting a little cheesed off with the almost total attitude in this thread that the EU has nothing to answer for.

Maybe make a thread about the deficiencies of the EU then? This thread is on Brexit, and up to this point in the process the EU have performed a lot better than anyone expected beforehand. There wasn't even a showdown on the European side concerning the WA, they just agreed, despite needing to satisfy 27 cabinets and parliaments.

The UK can thank their lucky stars that the EU isn't behaving vindictive or nearly as chaotic as many Brits allege (or as the Brits behave).

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I struggle to believe that the EU as a Union are not disappointed that the UK is about to leave and don't regret not doing more to make it more attractive. Not just for us but for all.
Now. I fully expect to get a response saying that nobody else cares whether we remain or leave and the EU has been more than generous in agreeing a to a fantastic WA.

With the red lines May has set the WA is the only one possible - it has been negotiated around what the UK said they wanted.

The EU have said themselves that they'd prefer the UK to stay but the UK decided to leave - the only country that hasn't accepted that the UK are leaving the EU are the UK themselves.

The primary problem is that of the border in Ireland which is proving far more complex than at first glance.

That was obvious from before the referendum but not enough people made an issue of it.
Nevertheless the problem has been clearly evident for more than two years but that doesn't seem to have swayed any opinion or desire by Brexiters to dismiss it.

You say special treatment.
Others would argue fair treatment.

It is perfectly natural that the leaders of any country in a Union should try to get the best possible conditions for its own people.

I trust that you are not trying to say that it is only the UK that wants this and the other 27 are perfectly compliant and don't attempt to improve its conditions.

Yes of course all countries want the best and negotiate within the EU, it's up to the members to decide between them.

My point is that both Tories and Labour are still seeking the benefits of the EU whilst being outside it.

 

[caid]

Deciding on what it means is immaterial. The UK will leave one way or another. Who, in the EU is seriously asking why?

Do you guys even know why your leaving?
You've got towns with no immigrants voting to stop immigrants coming to their town. You've got a government who actively avoid taking responsibility for anything bleating on about control and sovereignty over things that have control and sovereignty over.
I think your leaving because you have no understanding or interest in what the EU is and have a hostile political and media establishment which tricked you into screwing yourselves over. Thats it in a nutshell. Your insularity made you vulnerable imo, its a weakness that comes with your independence and self sufficiency which are normally good qualities but probably not that suited to how the world is changing.

 

[Stick]

True.
But it is not as if there is a tried and tested process of leaving.
The reality is that both sides are learning by doing.

The primary problem is that of the border in Ireland which is proving far more complex than at first glance.

Yes I agree the UK are the path finders but you have had 2 years and still a consensus on the Brexit issue has not been agreed by your parliament. Whose at fault there?

I'm a bit slow on things but wasnt the EC/EEC/EU set up as a way to stop wars in Europe over balance of power struggles. It gave representation to all members at a table where previously there was none. In Europe we have had peace since 1945 in part due to stability. I think the UK leaving definitely destabilises the EU and creates tension in competition with the UK for different markets.

If the UK really wanted to reform the EU they could do so within by suggesting reforms, pitching them to member states and making changes democratically. I don't doubt the EU have made mistakes but the anti EU and Johnny foreigner attitude in the British press along with successive average governments blaming Europe for everything have also massively influenced the British electorate.

I'm risk averse so I struggle to understand the logic of this but I hope it works out for you for all our sakes.

 

[mariachi-19]

I'm not a brexiteer. I wanted to stay in. But I'm getting a little cheesed off with the almost total attitude in this thread that the EU has nothing to answer for.

Look im not going to get into any debate on this because im not truly informed, but your country chose to leave the EU. The EU is not obligated in anyway shape or form to assist the UK in leaving with little to no economic impact. In fact, its within their best interest to ensure that you pay the maximum you possibly can.

You can't expect somebody to help you when you leaving causes nothing but headaches.

 

[Penna]

Look im not going to get into any debate on this because im not truly informed, but your country chose to leave the EU. The EU is not obligated in anyway shape or form to assist the UK in leaving with little to no economic impact. In fact, its within their best interest to ensure that you pay the maximum you possibly can.

You can't expect somebody to help you when you leaving causes nothing but headaches.

This is it in a nutshell. We're the ones who want to leave, it's costing other countries a lot of time and money to put new measures in place to deal with the changes, it destabilises a long-established alliance - why should they help us out at all?

 

[Stanley Road]

Look im not going to get into any debate on this because im not truly informed, but your country chose to leave the EU. The EU is not obligated in anyway shape or form to assist the UK in leaving with little to no economic impact. In fact, its within their best interest to ensure that you pay the maximum you possibly can.

You can't expect somebody to help you when you leaving causes nothing but headaches.

The eu has a right to look after its citizens, if europes economies are worse off because of brexit then they will have failed.

 

[Massive Spanner]

The eu has a right to look after its citizens, if europes economies are worse off because of brexit then they will have failed.

That's bullshit because there's no scenario where there aren't at least some of the countries worse off when they lose the sixth biggest economy in the world, and you know it. The EU nor the countries in it have ever tried to claim that they won't take a hit when the UK leaves, but they'll be a hell of a lot better equipped to recover from it long-term than the UK will.

 

[Stanley Road]

That's bullshit because there's no scenario where there aren't at least some of the countries worse off when they lose the sixth biggest economy in the world, and you know it. The EU nor the countries in it have ever tried to claim that they won't take a hit when the UK leaves, but they'll be a hell of a lot better equipped to recover from it long-term than the UK will.

Its not bullshit at all

 

[Reiver]

Why do you assume the UK's government will be to the right of the EU's? Isn't it equally possible that over the next thirty years it could be to the left, and enhancing all those things?

For the record I think it's better to have shared laws over those items, I'm just questioning your assumption.

What you say is possible. I wasn't trying to make a comment on the nature of the UK Government going forward, although I suspect it will be right leaning at least.
My point is that, given time, business will successfully lobby for changes on a shed load of laws/policy, such as workers rights.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Its not bullshit at all

A fine counter argument worthy of the man.