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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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sun_tzu

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They gave up sometime yesterday when it became clear they would lose anyway when the house sat all weekend and 24 hours a day, and start using that 'the noble lord shall no longer be heard' devices etc. Would have just wasted their time for a loss in the end.
Democracy at its finest... If nothing else good comes out of this whole brexit debacle I hope we formalise some constitutional processes and look seriously at house of lords reforms
 

Buster15

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This, from the Times, is a genuine quote:

Well said.
I found his speech totally condescending and purile.
He may have thought that he was being 'oh so clever don't you know'
But it was exactly the opposite. Quite frankly the man ought to grow up and stop trying to be such a total bore.
He has absolutely no redeeming features and his use of the English language impresses no one.
 

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They gave up sometime yesterday when it became clear they would lose anyway when the house sat all weekend and 24 hours a day, and start using that 'the noble lord shall no longer be heard' devices etc. Would have just wasted their time for a loss in the end.
Ok thanks. The Lords clearly needs more reform.
 

Fingeredmouse

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Well said.
I found his speech totally condescending and purile.
He may have thought that he was being 'oh so clever don't you know'
But it was exactly the opposite. Quite frankly the man ought to grow up and stop trying to be such a total bore.
He has absolutely no redeeming features and his use of the English language impresses no one.
His frequent use of Latin even less so.
How's that "Aquila non capit muscus" attitude working out for you, you ludicrous, superior ingrate?
 

Fingeredmouse

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This is an extraordinary post and deserves more attention.
It is an extraordinary post and it doesn't surprise me. They used to routinely film marches in the 80s and 90s, especially the front on the marches. The infamous anti-nazi march in Tower Hamlets (which had kettling and horses running over holocaust survivors amongst other delights) resulted in people's pictures being in the Sun and demonised and it caused at least one University lecturer I knew some serious hassles at work for a time.
 

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Indeed... And I'm not saying no deal should come at a cliff edge immediately

But if people voted for no transition agreement that there would be let's say a year to prepare for it fully (stockpile... Increase port throughout... Design protocols for prioritisation of different things)

I believe the best option is to remain and failing that a Norway style deal but if the majority of people voted for a no transition deal scenario in the full knowledge of what that entailed then I think that should be ok implemented ... I also think that without that option on a ballot (and hopefully defeated) the hard brexit movement would gain in force and probably skupper any future deal anyway
But this isn't feasible. A no deal is a cliff edge by definition. I also agree that some times parliament must save the majority from the consequences of their excesses.

If somebody walked into a hospital and said I want you to amputate my left leg because I'm fed up of it you wouldn't expect the doctor to do it. It's the same with a no deal Brexit. You can't let people destroy the country just because that's what they asked for.
 

berbatrick

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It is an extraordinary post and it doesn't surprise me. They used to routinely film marches in the 80s and 90s, especially the front on the marches. The infamous anti-nazi march in Tower Hamlets (which had kettling and horses running over holocaust survivors amongst other delights) resulted in people's pictures being in the Sun and demonised and it caused at least one University lecturer I knew some serious hassles at work for a time.
TBH it's the next part that got me - that because this harrasment happened, it makes it right to side with the state or the right.
 

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It is an extraordinary post and it doesn't surprise me. They used to routinely film marches in the 80s and 90s, especially the front on the marches. The infamous anti-nazi march in Tower Hamlets (which had kettling and horses running over holocaust survivors amongst other delights) resulted in people's pictures being in the Sun and demonised and it caused at least one University lecturer I knew some serious hassles at work for a time.
Oh he was on about the fact that people who protested were labeled as Communist and barred from certain positions. I thought that was common knowledge. It happened all the time back in the day. I can't see it being much different now.
 

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TBH it's the next part that got me - that because this harrasment happened, it makes it right to side with the state or the right.
That's why I didn't reply. The idea that when he grew up he realised that it was right to discriminate against people for standing up for the rights of the disadvantaged. I started to reply and thorough is it really worth it.
 

Mockney

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I’m absolutely fascinated by the “JFC” stunt.... even purely from an “amusing photoshop” angle, the Caf could do better in under 20 minutes..

Amazing things it also implies...

1. The Tories think Colonel Sanders is an enormous anthropomorphic Chicken, called “KFC”
2. This terrifying Uber-Chicken sells cold, plain, unseasoned breasts of his smaller, inferior brethren, in non-biodegradable plastic containers.
3. Consequently, as “KFC” are the initials of this giant Godzilla-Fowl, who doesn’t fry his subjects, the F stands for nothing important, and changing it to “JFC” makes complete sense...
4. Spines are an integral part of the KFC brand (those filthy proles love their spines) so a “spineless chicken” is a sick burn in the context of a fast food parody.
5. Someone at the actual Government of the United Kingdom had an intern go out and buy a load of cold chicken, plastic containers and brown paper bags (not from KFC) to coincide with a Sun headline, and then made them sheepishly deliver them around Westminster, after the initial tweet had already landed badly....
6. The right are getting better at comedy and it’s making the left nervous.
 
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lonelyred

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I'm not clear why the Brexiteers in The Lords did nothing to hold up the Benn bill. Can anyone explain for me?
Me neither. Maybe...
The government had already said they would put forward a new GE motion on Monday. The opposition refused to vote on early election before the Benn bill gets royal consent, but that condition will now be fulfilled (obviously, they should now avoid that vote until the Queen's speech / EU conference - and let Johnson enjoy the prorogation).
 

Fingeredmouse

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I’m absolutely fascinated by the “JFC” stunt.... even purely from an “amusing photoshop” angle, the Caf could do better in under 20 minutes..

Amazing things it also implies...

1. The Tories think Colonel Sanders is an enormous anthropomorphic Chicken, called “KFC”
2. This terrifying Uber-Chicken sells cold, plain, unseasoned breasts of his smaller, inferior brethren, in non-biodegradable plastic containers.
3. Consequently, as “KFC” are the initials of this giant Godzilla-Fowl, who doesn’t fry his subjects, the F stands for nothing, and changing it to “JFC” makes complete sense...
4. Spines are an integral part of the KFC brand (those filthy proles love their spines) so a “spineless chicken” is a sick burn in the context of a fast food parody.
5. Someone at the actual Government of the United Kingdom had an intern go out and buy a load of cold chicken, plastic containers and brown paper bags (not from KFC) to coincide with a Sun headline, and then made them sheepishly deliver them around Westminster, after the initial tweet had already landed badly....
Also that they think the public will now somehow forever see Jeremy Corbyn as an anthropomorphic cannibal chicken due to this clever manipulation. They really are a shower of tits who, dimly aware of the concepts of humour and viral campaigning and filtering these concepts through their idea of public school banter, have cobbled together a satirical campaign the Beano would have found a little childish and hackneyed.
 

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Is that what he meant? Christ. Not how I'd read it but you may be right.
Not exactly how I read it but close enough. I though I got the wrong end of what @berbatrick meant for a bit but no. It was what I originally thought he meant. If you see that the establishment are discriminating against anybody who speaks out against the establishment how can you grow up and realise what you saw was wrong. The answer is that what you saw in your youth wasn't wrong you just got rich enough to jump ship and join the establishment so people being discriminated against doesn't matter any more.
 

DOTA

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5. Someone at the actual Government of the United Kingdom had an intern go out and buy a load of cold chicken, plastic containers and brown paper bags (not from KFC) to coincide with a Sun headline, and then made them sheepishly deliver them around Westminster, after the initial tweet had already landed badly....
I can't be arsed to check if it was also posted on Facebook but my instinct is middle aged Facebook men were the audience it was intended for. The kind of men who dream of Farage announcing a stand up tour. They probably found it funny.
 

Fingeredmouse

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Not exactly how I read it but close enough. I though I got the wrong end of what @berbatrick meant for a bit but no. It was what I originally thought he meant. If you see that the establishment are discriminating against anybody who speaks out against the establishment how can you grow up and realise what you saw was wrong. The answer is that what you saw in your youth wasn't wrong you just got rich enough to jump ship and join the establishment so people being discriminated against doesn't matter any more.
I read it now as "The idealistic young are generally right but, given the state always wins, better to concede and keep your head down until you're old and jaded enough to perpetuate the circle by voting Tory to vicariously punish the as yet uncrushed young".
 

Mockney

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TBH it's the next part that got me - that because this harrasment happened, it makes it right to side with the state or the right.
Not to mention it’s from a poster who a few weeks ago was insisting Corbyn was only offering to lead an anti-No Deal alliance so as to force his way into power permanently, to enact his doctrine of evil extremist Marxism...

Given his Marxist beliefs it would be reasonable to assume that once he obtained power, by whatever means, he would be difficult to shift....let no one be fooled, Jeremy wants out from the EU as much as any euro-sceptic Tory, if he can use Brexit to get his hands on the leavers of power, then all his revolutionary dreams will come true. Its something of a minor miracle he has got so far... but then they said that about Trump!
This is the kind of rational, sensible view that can only be gained with the experience of age... and realising you might get your wings clipped for caring about shit, of course. But definitely not a constant media barrage of Chicken memes, that’s for sure!

And tbf (as is always a needed caveat now) I do understand the basis for that kind of Corbyn-concern... but the ‘Rational Centre’ can’t keep peddling it in earnest and expect to be taken in good faith by the younger generations weaned on the intricate machinations of media spin.... You’ve got to be a lot more, well, rational about it! Otherwise you look exactly like the Boomers taken in by the pro-Brexit tabloids. Whose wizened age and experience somehow haven’t led them to enlightenment.
 
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I read it now as "The idealistic young are generally right but, given the state always wins, better to concede and keep your head down until you're old and jaded enough to perpetuate the circle by voting Tory to vicariously punish the as yet uncrushed young".
I'm in my 50's and not jaded enough yet to vote Tory.
 

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Saw this on my timeline, just woeful. I don't know how people of such incompetence get to hold such positions
It's happening on both sides. BOJO stood in front of a group of police cadets and brought up the caution and then couldn't remember the words even when they were telling him the words he still couldn't get it right.

The thing is that every time that I get disenfranchised with Labour the Lib Dems raise their heads and remind me how little we can trust what they say.
 

Smores

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Started to watch The thick of it again and it's so on point. The first episode where Tucker has them telling the press the opposite of reality because they'll print what i fecking tell them if they want stories.
 

Jacko21

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Saw this on my timeline, just woeful. I don't know how people of such incompetence get to hold such positions
Corbyn wasn't exactly flush with options given the resignations he faced early on - on top of the many who refused to serve under him.

If they could avoid doing so, no leader in their right mind would let the likes of Abbott, Thornberry, Burgon etc do their bidding for them on TV and radio.
 

esmufc07

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It's happening on both sides. BOJO stood in front of a group of police cadets and brought up the caution and then couldn't remember the words even when they were telling him the words he still couldn't get it right.

The thing is that every time that I get disenfranchised with Labour the Lib Dems raise their heads and remind me how little we can trust what they say.
That is intentional from Boris, that is his style. Somebody poster an article about it earlier in the thread but I can't remember who.
 

Jacko21

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It's happening on both sides. BOJO stood in front of a group of police cadets and brought up the caution and then couldn't remember the words even when they were telling him the words he still couldn't get it right.

The thing is that every time that I get disenfranchised with Labour the Lib Dems raise their heads and remind me how little we can trust what they say.
That's what happens when the centre ground gets abandoned.

Meanwhile, the ideologues are like pigs in muck.
 

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That is intentional from Boris, that is his style. Somebody poster an article about it earlier in the thread but I can't remember who.
It's his style to be PST and not the actual fact that he is pig shite thick. Okay then I'll believe you. Honest I really am that gullible.
 

Sweet Square

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Why would anyone, who is not an ardent Jeremy fan, believe he would remain in the EU.? Jeremy's after his own kind of 'no deal' with the EU.

Corbyn's whole political life has been in a anti-EU stance, even before most of the ERG were! Jeremy is a man who has been, in political terms 'baying at the moon' all his life. By a stupendous mistake the Labour party adopted him as its leader, then allowed his 'shock troops' to as it were storm the bastille and make sure he got elected again. Given his Marxist beliefs it would be reasonable to assume that once he obtained power, by whatever means, he would be difficult to shift. This would be nothing new as Jeremy holds fast to his views and in fairness always has, that has been one of his attractions to many of his disciples; however let no one be fooled, Jeremy wants out from the EU as much as any euro-sceptic Tory, if he can use Brexit to get his hands on the leavers of power, then all his revolutionary dreams will come true. Its something of a minor miracle he has got so far... but then they said that about Trump!
Hi Steve.


Your vastly overestimating Corbyn and underestimating Marxist theory.

Now go away and read some books.
 

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That's what happens when the centre ground gets abandoned.

Meanwhile, the ideologues are like pigs in muck.
Well I'm a socialist(not to an extreme) so I don't completely agree with you on that. There have been some really exceptional people on both sides of the centre while there are some real lemons that are middle of the road.
 

Fingeredmouse

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That's what happens when the centre ground gets abandoned.

Meanwhile, the ideologues are like pigs in muck.
Not to rehash a tedious and endless debate but what constitutes centrist? Is compromise on all aspects of ideology and not sticking to any position admirable? If so, how does holding that principle not make a person an ideologue?
How is any of this related to Johnson's Hugh Grant schtick? Surely he is the opposite of an ideologue? He's a populist opportunist if anything.
The Tories have become a one issue party but their other policies are about as right as always, or are we to pretend that Thatcher, Hague, Duncan-Smith and Howard were anything that could meaningfully be described as centre leaning? They have merely dropped the veneer. The Lib dems have always been to the right of centre, save possibly under poor old Chuck. Which policies of Labour make them hard left? The SNP are fairly close to the centre but, again, have a single principle concern and are irrelevant to 90% of the population.
I'm not sure the centre has been abandoned anymore than it has been ever, save perhaps under the early years of Blair's Third Way.
 
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Jacko21

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Well I'm a socialist(not to an extreme) so I don't completely agree with you on that. There have been some really exceptional people on both sides of the centre while there are some real lemons that are middle of the road.
Oh absolutely, I was being pretty literal.