Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Sweet Square]

And pray tell me oh wise one who is full of bile and vitriol. Just exactly what compromises will find a majority amongst the current crop of parliamentarians? The reality is that the lot of them could not agree on how to organise a P*** up in a brewery let alone have the wit or intelligence to run the country.

 

[Maticmaker]

Why do you say that as if it’s a bad thing? Why should 5m people have an equal amount of influence to 50m?

Ask Ms Sturgeon about that one!

 

[Kentonio]

Ask Ms Sturgeon about that one!

Last I checked Sturgeon wanted Scotland to be independent, not to have an exactly equal voice to England.

 

[Maticmaker]

And pray tell me oh wise one who is full of bile and vitriol. Just exactly what compromises will find a majority amongst the current crop of parliamentarians? The reality is that the lot of them could not agree on how to organise a P*** up in a brewery let alone have the wit or intelligence to run the country.

Yes, that bit in Brexit about 'taking back control' is starting to weigh heavily when we see just what calibre of politician we have in the UK. Mind you its us who put them there, remember! Lots of our politicians must be yearning to get David Cameron in an empty room!

 

[Maticmaker]

Last I checked Sturgeon wanted Scotland to be independent, not to have an exactly equal voice to England.

Not in terms of Brexit!

 

[Stanley Road]

Why do you say that as if it’s a bad thing? Why should 5m people have an equal amount of influence to 50m?

Guess its my strange interpretation of equality.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

They don't have to disagree just to disagree no more than the UK did, during their time in the EU the UK agreed with most things.

Take ECOWAS, the West African equivalent of the EU (which also has a peacekeeping force) and has a total population of 350milllion and rising - Nigeria is by far the biggest population and has 35 seats out of 115. Wonder who has the most influence there.
Can't wait for the trade discussions between UK 64m v ECOWAS 350m.

I just had a look on Wikipedia and whilst Nigeria do have about 30% of the seats, they also have 53% on the total population, so if you break that down influence per person you could say Nigerians have less influence individually

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I just had a look on Wikipedia and whilst Nigeria do have about 30% of the seats, they also have 53% on the total population, so if you break that down influence per person you could say Nigerians have less influence individually

I mean as a country but yes individually. In the EU parliament Denmark has 13 seats and Malta 6 seats whereas Denmark has more than 10 times the population of Malta. Also in the EU each country has one Commissioner and one member on the European Council (heads of state). All of this is decided between the countries/member states.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

I mean as a country but yes individually. In the EU parliament Denmark has 13 seats and Malta 6 seats whereas Denmark has more than 10 times the population of Malta. Also in the EU each country has one Commissioner and one member on the European Council (heads of state). All of this is decided between the countries/member states.

Am I right in thinking that the commissioner is appointed by the relevent MEPs? Cos if so, the voting decisions of the voting individuals are represented in every appointment. Then when the countries are deciding between themselves, it is down to the representatives to get the best for their country. The EU is a representative democracy, just like the UK. Of course, it's down to us who we vote in to represent us, so if we're voting clowns like Farage, it's no surprise so many British people feel let down by the EU

 

[JPRouve]

Guess its my strange interpretation of equality.

It's not your interpretation of equality but it's misusage that is strange. Ideally what you want is equity not equality because the member states are objectively not equal and in reality the EU isn't even equitable since the smaller countries have a lot more weight than they normally would have.

 

[Kentonio]

Not in terms of Brexit!

One of the big reasons the rUK gave for Scotland remaining in the UK was that they would lose their EU membership if they left. The irony was not missed after the 2016 referendum.

The sheer hypocrisy of many of the same political figures now telling the Scots to shut up and deal with it, after that and after a large majority of Scots voted Remain, is not lost on Scotland.

 

[Sweet Square]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Smores]

And pray tell me oh wise one who is full of bile and vitriol. Just exactly what compromises will find a majority amongst the current crop of parliamentarians? The reality is that the lot of them could not agree on how to organise a P*** up in a brewery let alone have the wit or intelligence to run the country.

Bile and vitriol? Is that you Francois?

The entire reason Boris wants the GE is because he fears amendments that he doesn't want will pass parliament. That's not seeking compromise but running away from it, as he has at every turn.

Let's not forget if he and the rest of the loony ERG had compromised they'd have got May's deal through and probably still would.

I can only imagine you'd prefer something like the below so that Boris doesn't have to deal with a parliament not bending to his will.

"The nation and the government are one thing. The will of the people is the will of the government and vice versa. The modern structure of the state is a higher form of democracy [ennobled democracy] in which, by virtue of the people’s mandate, the government is exercised authoritatively while there is no possibility for parliamentary interference to obliterate and render ineffective the execution of the nation’s will."

 

[Rado_N]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

"I'm too stupid to follow what's going on, please don't ask me any more questions"

Agree: 89%
Not sure: 11%

 

[Sweet Square]

"I'm too stupid to follow what's going on, please don't ask me any more questions"

Agree: 89%
Not sure: 11%

One of the weirdest thing about Brexit so far is that everyone claims to be fed up of talking about it and just want to ''GET ON WITH IT'' but its clear no one has any fecking idea about the process of the last 3 years.

So what the feck are people fed up with ?

 

[Sweet Square]

Also shock horror

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[golden_blunder]

One of the weirdest thing about Brexit so far is that everyone claims to be fed up of talking about it and just want to ''GET ON WITH IT'' but its clear no one has any fecking idea about the process of the last 3 years.

So what the feck are people fed up with ?

This is what I’ve started to ask too. Imho people just have become lost in terms of can’t follow what’s going on, so everyone just wants it to go away

 

[Cheesy]

This is what I’ve started to ask too. Imho people just have become lost in terms of can’t follow what’s going on, so everyone just wants it to go away

It's also sort of become a lazy catch-all term that's convenient for both sides to use irrespective of how much it's grounded in reality. For the Leave side it's a useful argument to try and convince everyone to just get it done; for Remainers it's a handy way to say that the entire Brexit process has been alienating for everyone and no one actually wants or cares about it that much.

I'm unsure how much people actually are fed up with Brexit - certainly there's plenty of disillusionment and anger, but then that can often be said for politics in general, especially when it comes to big stories and major policy arguments. The idea Brexit's more alienating seems to have just been taken at face value without too much scrutiny, I think. Although open to figures which suggest otherwise.

 

[sammsky1]

Gina Miller: Police investigate contract killer crowdfunding page

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50202060

 

[Smores]

One of the weirdest thing about Brexit so far is that everyone claims to be fed up of talking about it and just want to ''GET ON WITH IT'' but its clear no one has any fecking idea about the process of the last 3 years.

So what the feck are people fed up with ?

You're being charitable, they're just parroting another line given to them. The level of engagement for a lot of them is seeing headlines in their paper, news on the radio and even that is too boring. Most politics will be boring to them but at least it's not the same issue every day.

We probably shouldn't run a country on the basis that the politically disengaged are bored with hearing a word.

 

[do.ob]

I'm unsure how much people actually are fed up with Brexit - certainly there's plenty of disillusionment and anger, but then that can often be said for politics in general, especially when it comes to big stories and major policy arguments. The idea Brexit's more alienating seems to have just been taken at face value without too much scrutiny, I think. Although open to figures which suggest otherwise.

I'm not British and I don't follow it's daily politics particularly closely, so I might be wrong, but to me it seems like Brexit made the cynicism in politics abundantly clear.
I'm thinking about Farage feigning amnesia about the bus ads right after the vote, Johnson campaigning for Brexit with "conviction", then passing on leadership in favour of a remainer when it came to implementing it. And on the other side there's Labour, their complete lack of a position on the matter and a strategy that seems to be most concerned with what's best for Corbyn. To the point where people who made up basically half of the vote had to create a new movement, which if that earlier tweet is to be believed is also being lead by someone whose primary motive isn't Brexit.
This is might be the most important political issue in people's lifetimes and yet it couldn't be clearer that their representatives are most concerned with how to use it for personal gain, be it money or power.
I have absolutely no faith in Labour to actually do something meaningful about Brexit, so I can understand people who say that if no one is fighting for them they might as well accept the deal that's on the table.

 

[TheGame]

Really pathetic and hypocritical of Labour:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[NinjaFletch]

I'm not British and I don't follow it's daily politics particularly closely, so I might be wrong, but to me it seems like Brexit made the cynicism in politics abundantly clear.
I'm thinking about Farage feigning amnesia about the bus ads right after the vote, Johnson campaigning for Brexit with "conviction", then passing on leadership in favour of a remainer when it came to implementing it. And on the other side there's Labour, their complete lack of a position on the matter and a strategy that seems to be most concerned with what's best for Corbyn. To the point where people who made up basically half of the vote had to create a new movement, which if that earlier tweet is to be believed is also being lead by someone whose primary motive isn't Brexit.
This is might be the most important political issue in people's lifetimes and yet it couldn't be clearer that their representatives are most concerned with how to use it for personal gain, be it money or power.
I have absolutely no faith in Labour to actually do something meaningful about Brexit, so I can understand people who say that if no one is fighting for them they might as well accept the deal that's on the table.

I think that was less about 'conviction' than the fact he got knifed by Gove the morning he was going to announce his leadership bid and pulled out because he didn't think he would win. Brexit was always a cynical ploy by him to get his hands on the top job and, as his next two years agitating in May's government showed, he was going to try and engineer a situation where he could get another shot. His support for Brexit is little more than personal ambition, but he is and was arrogant enough to think that that his utter magnificence would make it successful if he blessed it with his attention.

Johnson is lots of things, but first and foremost he's a public school boy with classic public school boy delusion about his own ability and magnificence. His entire political career is an exercise in making you know how highly he thinks of himself.

 

[Rooney24]

Tusk confirms EU has agreed an extension until 31st January.

 

[sun_tzu]

Tusk confirms EU has agreed an extension until 31st January.

Will this change the votes today?
I guess not as probably most people assumed it would happen

 

[esmufc07]

Will this change the votes today?
I guess not as probably most people assumed it would happen

What time is the vote?

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

So, can someone update me in brief what is likely to happen in the next few days? I avoid all Brexit news now as I don't like the negative energy it brings.

 

[sun_tzu]

Johnson is lots of things, but first and foremost he's a public school boy with classic public school boy delusion about his own ability and magnificence. His entire political career is an exercise in making you know how highly he thinks of himself.

To be fair he has won:

Three elections as an MP over 2 constituencies
He won 2 london mayor elections (something supposedly a conservative was not going to achieve)
He won the conservative leadership election (albeit after withdrawing before)
Has been foreign secretary
Is PM
And lead vote leave to the shock referendum victory

Like him, loath him or somewhere in-between I think its fair to say he has had a pretty successful political career and given his election record clearly he has something that has worked pretty well for him to date in terms of others thinking highly of him (or certainly more highly than I do)

I don't see him as a great leader, a political giant, a superb orator... but if hes as incompetent as people make out then hes played a very bad hand very fecking well

I do wonder how he would be shaping up against a half competent labour leader but that is such a hypothetical at the moment that most probably he is also going to add to his CV a general election victory and taking the UK out of the EU - so in some way hes not deluded to think hes got a better CV than most politicians

 

[sun_tzu]

What time is the vote?

3:30 i think the debate starts with the vote around 5pm - I guess results around 5:30

 

[Rooney24]

Will this change the votes today?
I guess not as probably most people assumed it would happen

Who knows.

Its strange timing I think as last week all the talk was while they would agree an extension they wouldnt state what it was until after this vote on a GE. Wonder what prompted the change of mind?

I guess maybe the thinking is, heres another three months, now feck off and have your election and sort this out once and for all.

 

[Pexbo]

Who knows.

Its strange timing I think as last week all the talk was while they would agree an extension they wouldnt state what it was until after this vote on a GE. Wonder what prompted the change of mind?

I guess maybe the thinking is, heres another three months, now feck off and have your election and sort this out once and for all.

I guess their thinking is “we’re done negotiating, your current prime minister has got a deal that you need to make a decision on, now feck off for 3 months and figure out on your own what you’re going to do with it”

 

[esmufc07]

So, can someone update me in brief what is likely to happen in the next few days? I avoid all Brexit news now as I don't like the negative energy it brings.

Vote today on whether Johnson can have an election. If it passes Parliament will be dissolved next week and an election will be held in December

If it doesn’t pass then I would assume No. 10 will use a few other means of trying to force an election.

 

[sun_tzu]

So, can someone update me in brief what is likely to happen in the next few days? I avoid all Brexit news now as I don't like the negative energy it brings.

Today (28) - Fixed term parliament act - needs 67% of MP's to vote for it - unless the opposition change their mind based on the EU extension looks likely to fail
29th - If election vote passed then further debate on the boris brexit bill - if not then erm well actually it gets a bit sketchy but I think the opposition have only 2 moves either to try and take control of the order paper under standing order 24 (before the speaker retires) and force something about trying to guarantee no deal - possibly even bringing back mays deal and trying to ammend it or even going with the indicative votes again... or alternatively having a vote of confidence in the PM (not sure what would happen but I suspect it would be close)
30th - depends what happened on 28th / 29th but with the speaker only having 1 more day till he stands down I suspect its now or never for peoples vote to try and push something through
31st - Speaker stands down - lots of speeches with added snarky remarks from brexiteers
1,2,3 Parliament not sitting
Monday 4th - new speaker elected
so by next week we may or may not have a new PM (or boris could be defeated but nobody found to head a GNU) - we may have further legislation about no deal or a referendum - or we may have the 2nd reading (with or without amendments or either the boris deal or the may deal passed - or it could have crashed and burned)
We will be about to elect a new speaker...

and just a thought but bercow to head a GNU if he is no longer speaker????????? (assuming there has been a confidence motion and boris defeated the week before and either corbyn has tried and failed or he hasnt tried knowing he will not win)

Basically a week is a long time in politics and nobody really knows

 

[sun_tzu]

I guess their thinking is “we’re done negotiating, your current prime minister has got a deal that you need to make a decision on, now feck off for 3 months and figure out on your own what you’re going to do with it”

Corbyn has to rethink his plan now though... will he back a second referendum based on the only deal there is vs remain or not

 

[Smores]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Didn't stick that on the bus did they.....

 

[Mr Pigeon]

One of the weirdest thing about Brexit so far is that everyone claims to be fed up of talking about it and just want to ''GET ON WITH IT'' but its clear no one has any fecking idea about the process of the last 3 years.

So what the feck are people fed up with ?

"I'm fed up because I walk down the street and still see"

Foreigners - 50%

A lack of British flags being waved about as we celebrate the resurgence of our Glorious Empire - 50%

 

[sun_tzu]

If it doesn’t pass then I would assume No. 10 will use a few other means of trying to force an election.

Not sure - the only other way is to introduce an amendable motion and whilst that only needs a simple majority (e.g. election 12th December)

That could be amended to parliament will approve an election on 12th May once the EU has granted and extension to 1st June and a confirmatory referendum has been help between the withdrawal deal and remain.

I'm not sure the conservatives are prepared to risk that... most probably they trudge on offering votes on a daily basis under the Fixed term parliament act - perhaps mogg has some arcane parliamentary shenanigans up his ill fitting sleeves

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Am I right in thinking that the commissioner is appointed by the relevent MEPs? Cos if so, the voting decisions of the voting individuals are represented in every appointment. Then when the countries are deciding between themselves, it is down to the representatives to get the best for their country. The EU is a representative democracy, just like the UK. Of course, it's down to us who we vote in to represent us, so if we're voting clowns like Farage, it's no surprise so many British people feel let down by the EU

The commissioner is nominated by the UK government and then confirmed if accepted by the parliament.
Yes the UK have never taken voting for their MEPs seriously. Farage stealing a living for 20 years as an MEP, nice pension when he's 63, what has he ever done for the UK, just preach bile and hatred. In the last election, admittedly under special circumstances out of 73 MEPs only 4 are Tory and 10 Labour. 14 seats of the two major parties.

 

[Smores]

Not sure - the only other way is to introduce an amendable motion and whilst that only needs a simple majority (e.g. election 12th December)

That could be amended to parliament will approve an election on 12th May once the EU has granted and extension to 1st June and a confirmatory referendum has been help between the withdrawal deal and remain.

I'm not sure the conservatives are prepared to risk that... most probably they trudge on offering votes on a daily basis under the Fixed term parliament act - perhaps mogg has some arcane parliamentary shenanigans up his ill fitting sleeves

I still think they have the option of resigning their government even if it's untested under FTPA. It just depends on how afraid they are of the opposition forming a government themselves.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

28th January 2020 - can we please have another three months. 28th January 2030 - BoB Corbyn takes a decision. 28th January 2040 - UK finally regain admission to the EU after 19 years of pleading.