Yes but you have to go back after three months.
I don't know what's normal anymore.
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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Because they won. A bit like 90s Mancs.
Scottish gorgonzola and french pidgyons.What on earth has this thread turned into?
And don't you forget it!
Which just goes to show why direct democracy for anything less than constitutional change is a terrible idea. And maybe still a terrible idea even then. If you want to leave the EU then take it to the next election as a policy.
If you don't then don't. When it is done merely to keep the right wing lunatic fringe of your own party quiet and it backfires then democracy allows for it to be pointed out how idiotic an idea it was and is.
Wobble, I truly respect your honesty. Let’s not pretend people’s opinions count, let’s just tell them what’s going to happen and save all those pencils and voting papers.
But I agree that voting for constitutIonal change is vital. For example, how would the indigenous Australian population have fared without it?
Badly even after the referendum. It was the High Court's decision in Mabo that gave them land rights which allowed them some (tenuous) claims on ancestral lands.
We don't give the British public votes on the continuing membership of NATO and retaining nuclear weapons. But imposing direct democracy in a system like the UK where we don't have that tradition (like in Ireland or Switzerland) was never going to end well when safeguards and rules were not built into the process.
I don't really like talking about posting styles, but given your rather peculiar style, which must be intentional, I'm going to be a little rude and suggest that you could really do with a lot less condescension and irony. It's grating and often insulting. Most of your posts are like this, but you have shown occasionally to be able to engage in normal discussion as well. It would be great if the latter were the norm for your posts instead of the other way round.
As for this particular point: I am in principle a proponent of more direct democracy, but wouldn't you agree that it would require some kind of guarantee that people will be able to make a well-informed choice? For example, misinformation was rife during the campaign ahead of the UK's EU referendum, while many people also appear to have voted based on the basis of very small issues (even as simple as only caring about fishing rights, apparently without considering how trade would be affected). As for another example, if asked about taxes, most people would vote to lower them, while reduced government ability to finance its activities would likely result in welfare cuts that people would dislike more than those taxes.
So, if you're here mocking @Wibble on generally not being particularly fond of direct democracy, how do you propose to do it in a way that people make proper decisions on the important issues that would be put before them?
The 67 referendum was mainly symbolic (yet very important) as Aboriginal people were already citizens with the right to vote. The Mabo decision was huge even if the barriers for claims is pretty damn high. What we really need is a treaty.
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Nobody is talking about removing anyone's right to vote and given we have Bojo and his evil clown posse in charge and we are no longer in the EU those votes plainly do count no matter the outcome. What I am saying is that we are a representative democracy for a reason and the Brexit fiasco is a prime example of that reason. Most referendums are just to avoid a government having to take responsibility or blame for a decision anyway.
And I'm not against changes to the voting system to make it more representative, just not in idiotic single issue ways. Compulsory voting (well attendance at a voting venue), possibly using some sort of transferable vote while retaining first past the post in constituencies, possibly complementing this with further MP's being elected by proportional representation of the national vote so that the popular vote counts and an elected upper house that had significant aspects of proportional representation.
In Australia's case the biggest changes we need is further tweaks to the senate voting system so that micro parties don't get seats due to preference deals and we also need to get rid of the Queen as head of state. We are big and old enough to have our own now.
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On a site note. I am of the opinion that the right to vote should be earned. Maybe asking for policies points on the party that you want to vote? or ask questions about a referendum. Nothing crazy difficult. Or if we would like to go serious, a week of socio political course (on paid work hours) where you get expedited a voting permit for 10 years? or something. But for feck sake, people should vote with more brains. Everybody would still have the right to vote, but you would need to earn that right
English schools don't have any compulsory classes on our political system, why we vote, how to vote etc. If we incorporated civics into the curriculum in a meaningful way. then that may assist with increasing knowledge and engagement with the system.
Totally agree.
Education is key, of course. But still there is a vast number of people in any country with politics incorportated in their schools that are massive tools when they have to vote, and when I say massive tools I don't mean that they don't vote like me, but that they just vote against their true interests because populism can work left and right and it so many people falls for it. And active realization on "what the feck I am doing voting for this" or simply I feel I want to spend a few hours each 4-10 years in politics would educate people on the first case and will get rid of the ones that are not political active in the second case
Nowadays politics seems more like a football much where you pick a side and you don't care that your players dive and hits the opponent as long as you win
NI ports: Brexit checks suspended amid safety concerns (rte.ie)
But apparently brexit has been fine so far and there haven't been any of the so-called disruptions remainers were banging on about.
Who knew that NI would be a shitfest? How could anyone have predicted such a thing?
But apparently brexit has been fine so far and there haven't been any of the so-called disruptions remainers were banging on about.
Who knew that NI would be a shitfest? How could anyone have predicted such a thing?
https://news.sky.com/story/15m-bees...ntally-stupid-post-brexit-import-ban-12206284
Every day, something new that was not an obvious problem with Brexit comes out into the open.
Every day, something new that was not an obvious problem with Brexit comes out into the open.
Seems kinda like that classic RAWK gif.
What happened to all the Brexiteers chanting WTO, WTO, WTO.
Sh!tfest with a deal, sh!tfest on speed without a deal.
If only they had asked the question, what will happen if I vote Brexit?
Fingers in ears, la, la, la, la.
But Boris tell us what will happen with business: F*ck business, speaketh the wise one.
Sh!tfest with a deal, sh!tfest on speed without a deal.
If only they had asked the question, what will happen if I vote Brexit?
Fingers in ears, la, la, la, la.
But Boris tell us what will happen with business: F*ck business, speaketh the wise one.
Still running one of the longest ever running threads on the Red Cafe
'Brexit/the worst threads last the longest'
THE BREXIT WARS -
Volume 97, Episode 15 "The return of the Bus people"
This is pre-sequel to a former sequel in volume 92.
SYNOPSIS
The Bus people have been banished from planet Brexit because they have been accused of planning a pilgrimage/ excavation to try to find the Holy Bus that in 2016 AD carried the £350,000,000 promise to the National Health Service. The Bus (52 seater coach actually)was believed to have been spirited away by the Farage Raiders; it was believed to have been taken to the US and was for a time a Totem pole symbol for the 'Proud Septuagenarians' a group dedicated to finding the final resting place of the Great Donald'.
Suddenly in 2045 sightings of the bus were reportedly made in deepest darkest Worcestershire and so the tale of the "Return of the Bus people" begins.
'Brexit/the worst threads last the longest'
THE BREXIT WARS -
Volume 97, Episode 15 "The return of the Bus people"
This is pre-sequel to a former sequel in volume 92.
SYNOPSIS
The Bus people have been banished from planet Brexit because they have been accused of planning a pilgrimage/ excavation to try to find the Holy Bus that in 2016 AD carried the £350,000,000 promise to the National Health Service. The Bus (52 seater coach actually)was believed to have been spirited away by the Farage Raiders; it was believed to have been taken to the US and was for a time a Totem pole symbol for the 'Proud Septuagenarians' a group dedicated to finding the final resting place of the Great Donald'.
Suddenly in 2045 sightings of the bus were reportedly made in deepest darkest Worcestershire and so the tale of the "Return of the Bus people" begins.
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What in the name of feck happened to this thread? It's like popping back into your shitty local after a while away, and finding there's a group of mimes throwing shit at the Insane Clown Posse by the pool table while a Chuckle Brothers impersonation act wank themselves off by the jukebox.
Hi, Cheimoon,
I don't take your comments as rude, because you are erudite and polite. I recall you referring to 'my part of the Netherlands' and assume you may be Dutch. I may be wrong and it is not meant as an insult. I enjoy very much growing tulips. For this purpose, I will assume you are from the Netherlands, in which case your politeness is a pleasant change to the perceived nature of Dutch humour, which is actually known for its insults and rudeness.
The final words in the article I have linked to are pertinent.
"If a Dutch person pulls your leg, don’t be a crybaby and a spoilsport. Learn to laugh and pull the person’s leg in return, then afterwards, get over it. You wouldn’t really want to celebrate a pity party all day as your Dutch counterpart has probably moved on, without a thought about you."
I read these words and they resonated with me, even though I have no ancestral links to the Netherlands. I do, however, enjoy cheese, which is also a big Dutch pastime, as I understand.
Having looked at what, if anything, tickled the Dutch funny bone, I looked at how British humour is portrayed to the rest of the world. In essence...
"Combine self-deprecation with a dose of understated sarcasm and you have the key ingredients of British humor. Sarcasm and irony are ingrained in our DNA. They are produced with world-class timing and nearly always with a deadpan delivery that will leave you wondering as to whether it was indeed a joke (or not?)"
Which is why Wolfie told me gorgonzola was an Italian cheese, not French as I suggested. My lack of culinary knowledge or his missing a bit of mischief?
So I conclude that you and I may start from a different position on what we consider funny. There are also probably some generational differences between us which add to the mix.
My formative years were peppered with programmes like Best Of Enemies in the late 60s, through Ripping Yarns, the Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club, Wodehouse Playhouse, The Comic Strip, The New Statesman, into the 90s with Mrs Merton, Alexei Sayle, Ben Elton and Paul Merton and thereafter, it's been more of the same with today's better known names that make 'Dave' what it is.
Blame this stream of pixels and radio waves partly for how I choose to express myself. To put it crudely (which I try to refrain from), I grew up in a world where people properly and often cruelly took the piss out of everyone and anyone regardless of age, colour, creed, disability, heritage, sexuality and a hundred more characteristics. It was pretty brutal in that respect and I suspect you would have hated it. Inevitably, some of it rubs off but hopefully not too much. Mischief not malice is my style of choice.
Out of curiosity, Cheimoon, have you give other posters much feedback on their writing style?
Or have I achieved, in your eyes, the status of being the rudest and most insulting poster on the forum? Maybe I'm the first to receive a demerit from you? Or am I one of many? Do you jump on the 'fecks', 'cnuts' and similar bits of feedback sometimes handed out? Or do you class that style of writing as socially acceptable now?
Let's talk about another difference between us. In the thread on the End of the United Kingdom. Your question to Acnumber9 was
"Why's that? Wouldn't NI just join RoI, and things would kinda go on as before, especially now the customs border is anyway in the Irish Sea?"
To a British bloke who was in Belfast during the Troubles, your naivety is astonishing, But you don't know our history and why should you? Hence I didn't enter the debate to help you with your thinking. Yours was an innocent question but an open goal to anyone who wished to be truly sarcastic and insulting. Not guilty, m'Lud.
What I try to do is make some points that might have been missed or ignored, bring some balance or alternate thinking and challenge. Point out issues, facts or context that explain or undermine a point of view that someone has enunciated which is not in any shape or form fact-based. With my tongue firmly in my cheek, often, I admit.
I dislike double standards, which is why I asked about how much feedback you give on writing style. To bring balance, I find yours dull and humourless. It reminds me of too many board papers I had to read and approve which were anodyne and forgettable. Elk op hun eigen.
Hypocrisy is another bete noire for me. It's inbuilt in all debate and forums like this, but there's still value in pointing it out, especially when facts can highlight it.
You'll perhaps have seen If someone on here insults the UK and rants about how rubbish it is to live here, I sometimes tell them politely to leave. Similarly, when someone says the UK doesn't make a significant contribution to humanitarian causes, I point out that they are wrong, using facts. If someone says democracy is a bad idea, I take issue.
This place is so polarised that the shades of grey between white and black don't get much of a look in, so I try to give them some airtime, in my own, as you say, peculiar, style.
I'm going to bring this to an end now, Cheimoon. No plays on words with your nom de plume. No misspelling or abbreviation. No Edam from Switzerland throwaways (sorry, Cheimoon, but it's lunchtime here and I can't help thinking about a cheese sandwich. Cheddar, though. We can't get foreign stuff here because the lorries can't get through).
If I have bruised your sensitivities, I am deeply sorry. You were never meant to feel any discomfort from my musings. Deep down, you know that's the case and I hope you are OK now.
Let's be friends, let's celebrate the things we share in common and accept those that are points of divergence. I promise to try hard to do as you ask.
Above all, stay safe, be a good person and keep up the good work.
One final question, if I may, Cheimoon? Are you really from the Netherlands?
I read all of that and you still haven't answered how the UK is nearer to the Americas.
Sorry, Abizzz, I forgot to get back to you. Sincere apologies.
So, here's how I tried to establish this. If you draw a line from the furthest northern and southern points of the UK to their counterparts in the Americas, my Helix ruler on Google maps indicates we edge it.
Is there another way to work it out that I've missed?
Good lord I think I just hacked @Cheimoon 's PM inbox.
I'd say the shortest distance between the two is the nearest? (Coumeenoole in Kerry, Ireland, to New Foundland) It's just short of 3000km.
Yeah but you're forgetting that a unified Ireland will be part of the UK, obviously.
And the winner is.
What about British Guiana? Does that qualify?
No it's now independent (since 1966). French Guyana is a french department.
Just like the French to still be running colonies. Bah humbug Papillon.
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Let's not delve too deeply into how this came about, though. Originally, the Advertising Standards Board would have had a field day with how Louis XV sold that as a holiday destination. Talk about 'warm and friendly welcome with full amenities and a relaxing environment!
And unless I'm mistaken, aren't you now facing a sort of growing Guixit movement?
Well spotted, Wolfie.
Let's not delve too deeply into how this came about, though. Originally, the Advertising Standards Board would have had a field day with how Louis XV sold that as a holiday destination. Talk about 'warm and friendly welcome with full amenities and a relaxing environment!
And unless I'm mistaken, aren't you now facing a sort of growing Guixit movement?
Well the British have still got the British Virgin Islands amongst others but that's only for stashing the Brexiter Elite's dodgy money.
No they don't want to leave the EU either.
Our money is considerably closer than yow.Well the British have still got the British Virgin Islands amongst others but that's only for stashing the Brexiter Elite's dodgy money.
asking nicely now, stop being so condescending to other posters. I don’t recall you behaving like this before