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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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WPMUFC

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how long do you reckon until there are serious calls for membership? Can your country actually stomach going back in or will this be a pride thing forever?

I mean Labour can't even weaponise its failures against johnson because it's so taboo. If it were possible, what? 20 years from now?
 

Adisa

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how long do you reckon until there are serious calls for membership? Can your country actually stomach going back in or will this be a pride thing forever?

I mean Labour can't even weaponise its failures against johnson because it's so taboo. If it were possible, what? 20 years from now?
At least a decade.
 

JPRouve

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how long do you reckon until there are serious calls for membership? Can your country actually stomach going back in or will this be a pride thing forever?

I mean Labour can't even weaponise its failures against johnson because it's so taboo. If it were possible, what? 20 years from now?
The problem is that in theory, new membership comes without acquis which is logically nearly impossible to sell to the public even british people that are pro-EU.
 

Jippy

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how long do you reckon until there are serious calls for membership? Can your country actually stomach going back in or will this be a pride thing forever?

I mean Labour can't even weaponise its failures against johnson because it's so taboo. If it were possible, what? 20 years from now?
At least, you'd imagine. We might need a generation to shift off the voting register first. Would also question European appetite- at least among the current cohort of MEPs.
 

Fluctuation0161

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how long do you reckon until there are serious calls for membership? Can your country actually stomach going back in or will this be a pride thing forever?

I mean Labour can't even weaponise its failures against johnson because it's so taboo. If it were possible, what? 20 years from now?
At least 20-30 years. Probably never, unless a future government reform and regulate the media.
 

Wibble

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Would the EU want such a silly country back given the pain their idiocy has caused?
 

Tarrou

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I think the EU would take the UK back despite all the shenanigans. The UK is still a huge economy and taking them back would no doubt strengthen the EU.
 

Pexbo

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It's irrelevant, we are not going to rejoin.
Not until the boomers are the minority voting demographic anyway. Who knows what the EU will look like at that point, or what Britain will look like for that matter.
 

sun_tzu

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Down the line, but no way anyone can face those accession talks for a few years.
Indeed a long way off i think... the whole euro aspect of it for a start.

If anything something approaching a Norway style deal would ve the starting point.

Farrage would probably have a heart attack ... actually on 2nd thoughts let's start immediately
 

Berbasbullet

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Indeed a long way off i think... the whole euro aspect of it for a start.

If anything something approaching a Norway style deal would ve the starting point.

Farrage would probably have a heart attack ... actually on 2nd thoughts let's start immediately
He would, despite him constantly using Norway as a reference point pre referendum, but he would of course conveniently forget that.
 

Kentonio

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Yes, they'll be blaming the EU and all sorts of people for the problems. The hardest part for them to accept will be that the idea of Brexit was never about a benefit for the British people, only for the benefit of certain politicians and tax avoiders and that they got conned into believing that these charlatans had their interests at heart.
That might actually be the easiest route for them. If someone has to face being wrong, its usually easier to have someone to blame for it. If the Express-Brexiteers ever actually do get to that point, the blowback on the Tories is going to be apocalyptic.
 

Kentonio

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how long do you reckon until there are serious calls for membership? Can your country actually stomach going back in or will this be a pride thing forever?
I'm expecting serious calls for joining the EEA or EFTA to start within about the next 6 months. It is likely to be the way Britain solves some of its problems while losing less face than if they just rejoin the EU straight off.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I think the EU would take the UK back despite all the shenanigans. The UK is still a huge economy and taking them back would no doubt strengthen the EU.
There is zero chance the EU will accept the UK back in the single market, the custom's union or the EU until the UK radically change their attitude , their political system, the acceptance that they would have to rejoin on far worse terms than when they left.

This is going to take a very very long time if ever. The EU now don't have a whiny major partner expecting special treament all the time. It actually feels like a relief the Uk have left.

The only reason the EU are still indulging the UK's tantrums is because of Ireland. The only reason Westminster indulges the DUP with the Protocol dispute is because it's the only weapon they think they can use against the EU.
 

Paul the Wolf

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That might actually be the easiest route for them. If someone has to face being wrong, its usually easier to have someone to blame for it. If the Express-Brexiteers ever actually do get to that point, the blowback on the Tories is going to be apocalyptic.
The problem is that there are going to be the same arguments that started before the referendum and are still going on now. Until the British people understand what they have voted for by voting for Brexit, there's not even a starting point. The UK joined the EEC nearly fifty years ago and because of the British media and governments they never understood what being in the EEC/EU meant.

All I can see is years of the same arguments, cherry picking and so on.

What is more likely is the break up of the UK and possibly Scotland joining at some point.
 

Tarrou

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There is zero chance the EU will accept the UK back in the single market, the custom's union or the EU until the UK radically change their attitude , their political system, the acceptance that they would have to rejoin on far worse terms than when they left.

This is going to take a very very long time if ever. The EU now don't have a whiny major partner expecting special treament all the time. It actually feels like a relief the Uk have left.

The only reason the EU are still indulging the UK's tantrums is because of Ireland. The only reason Westminster indulges the DUP with the Protocol dispute is because it's the only weapon they think they can use against the EU.
well it kinda goes without saying they’d have changed their attitude if they wanted back in

I think that’s impossible under the Tories current leadership though
 

Jippy

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Indeed a long way off i think... the whole euro aspect of it for a start.

If anything something approaching a Norway style deal would ve the starting point.

Farrage would probably have a heart attack ... actually on 2nd thoughts let's start immediately
If euro adoption is a deal breaker then it would take something pretty seismic for the UK to join.
 

Paul the Wolf

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well it kinda goes without saying they’d have changed their attitude if they wanted back in

I think that’s impossible under the Tories current leadership though
But it's not just the Tories though. The Labour Party's attitude was just as bad. Remember Starmer expecting to have the same benefits outside the EU as inside it. There really has to be a massive change in British politics.
 

Tarrou

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But it's not just the Tories though. The Labour Party's attitude was just as bad. Remember Starmer expecting to have the same benefits outside the EU as inside it. There really has to be a massive change in British politics.
Yeah I know. Public opinion needs to be heavily pro-EU first, before the politicians fall in line. Can’t see it happening for a while but who knows what 5 or 10 years out of the EU will do.

I also think all of the Tory feckwits who were responsible for Brexit need to be out of government.

I guess the best chance is if public opinion sways massively and then a strong Labour leadership fight an election on rejoining the EU. Now I’ve written that out I’ve realised how hopeless it sounds.
 
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Paul the Wolf

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Yeah I know. Public opinion needs to be heavily pro-EU first, before the politicians fall in line. Can’t see it happening for a while but who knows what 5 or 10 years out of the EU will do.

I also think all of the Tory feckwits who were responsible for Brexit need to be out of government.

I guess the best chance is if public opinion sways massively and then a strong Labour leadership fight an election on rejoining the EU. Now I’ve written that out I’ve realised how hopeless it sounds.
I could actually see public opinion swaying back to rejoining the EU. That is probably the least hard thing to achieve.

We're not even eighteen months into the UK leaving the EU properly and only the very start of the result of Brexit is having an effect. There are so many things that are going to happen over the next five years as grace periods end, more rules are introduced and by 2027 I expect a vast majority of the UK to be thoroughly sick of Brexit. Will that be enough to change British attitudes and politics, I'm not so sure.
 

Tarrou

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I could actually see public opinion swaying back to rejoining the EU. That is probably the least hard thing to achieve.

We're not even eighteen months into the UK leaving the EU properly and only the very start of the result of Brexit is having an effect. There are so many things that are going to happen over the next five years as grace periods end, more rules are introduced and by 2027 I expect a vast majority of the UK to be thoroughly sick of Brexit. Will that be enough to change British attitudes and politics, I'm not so sure.
lets say public opinion gets to 80%+ pro EU due to how terrible things go

why wouldn’t politicians change under those circumstances? If they don’t they’ll lose an election to someone who does
 

Paul the Wolf

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lets say public opinion gets to 80%+ pro EU due to how terrible things go

why wouldn’t politicians change under those circumstances? If they don’t they’ll lose an election to someone who does
But if they did reach that point we'd all be back to the endless arguing amongst themselves as to what terms they would be willing to rejoin the EU, not taking into account what the terms the EU would accept them to rejoin. So even if the public wanted to rejoin they're not going to rejoin with the pound being consigned to history and all the benefits and rebates the UK had before they left no longer applicable. So maybe one party was pro rejoining the EU, they'd probably lose the subsequent election because they wouldn't be able to obtain the exceptional terms the British public would expect.
 

Cheimoon

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If euro adoption is a deal breaker then it would take something pretty seismic for the UK to join.
From what I was reading in last week's news about Croatia adopting the euro in 2023, every EU country that doesn't have the euro yet must sketch out a path towards adopting it (Denmark being the only exception). So that would be required from the UK as well upon rejoining: anything else could not be justified to other recent or new members. But then some countries, like Sweden, are only nominally on that path and don't actually intend to make progress; so I guess that's the approach the UK could take. They'd still formally be on a course towards adoption though, which probably would be a huge stumbling block in and of itself already.

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong. :) )
 

Paul the Wolf

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From what I was reading in last week's news about Croatia adopting the euro in 2023, every EU country that doesn't have the euro yet must sketch out a path towards adopting it (Denmark being the only exception). So that would be required from the UK as well upon rejoining: anything else could not be justified to other recent or new members. But then some countries, like Sweden, are only nominally on that path and don't actually intend to make progress; so I guess that's the approach the UK could take. They'd still formally be on a course towards adoption though, which probably would be a huge stumbling block in and of itself already.

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong. :) )
:) Sweden joined in 1995 before the Euro. If the UK rejoined as new members they would need to adopt the Euro before they could. If the UK hadn't left they could have kept the Pound.
 

JPRouve

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From what I was reading in last week's news about Croatia adopting the euro in 2023, every EU country that doesn't have the euro yet must sketch out a path towards adopting it (Denmark being the only exception). So that would be required from the UK as well upon rejoining: anything else could not be justified to other recent or new members. But then some countries, like Sweden, are only nominally on that path and don't actually intend to make progress; so I guess that's the approach the UK could take. They'd still formally be on a course towards adoption though, which probably would be a huge stumbling block in and of itself already.

(Someone correct me if I'm wrong. :) )
Only new members have to adopt the Euro, the others have the benefits of exemptions. In theory the UK would be a new member and have lost those exemptions when they left.
 

Balljy

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Even if the politicians were persuaded that moving to the Euro was OK, that would be nightmare fuel for anti-EU campaigners in the future. If they've managed to make a huge fuss about blue passports, I dread to think the havoc they'd cause about moving back to the pound.

We're in a right mess, left the EU, and no chance of getting the special conditions that meant we could join in the past.
 

caid

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I dont get why you're so attached to the pound really. If you were to join the euro you'd have far more influence on it than everyone but france and germany. If you did it before trashing your international reputation you'd have more influence than france and a similar level to germany.
You guys could do with a hard dose of pragmatism and shedding some of the sentimental, historical attachments of questionable value in todays world
 

Superden

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I dont get why you're so attached to the pound really. If you were to join the euro you'd have far more influence on it than everyone but france and germany. If you did it before trashing your international reputation you'd have more influence than france and a similar level to germany.
You guys could do with a hard dose of pragmatism and shedding some of the sentimental, historical attachments of questionable value in todays world
thats all we have.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Northern Ireland protocol bill expected to be published on Monday
Aubrey Allegretti
The long-awaited plan to “fix” problems with the post-Brexit protocol that sees Northern Ireland treated differently to Great Britain were hoped to be published today, but have been pushed into next week.

The frenzied focus of government ministers on saving Boris Johnson’s premiership means the controversial legislation to unilaterally override the protocol is likely to be published on Monday.

There will also be a summary of the legal position released, which the government says confidently will show it is not breaking international law. However, the full legal advice will not be disclosed.

It is understood that foreign secretary Liz Truss has no upcoming meeting or talks with senior EU figures, so the UK will pursue the plans and leave it up to Brussels to change its negotiating stance.

Given the tumult of the Brexit days, Tory MPs said they faced a “nerve-wrecking wait” for the publication of the bill. When it starts its progression through parliament it is expected to trigger a significant number of rebellions because many MPs believe it could break the deal signed by the UK and EU.

Today the senior Conservative backbencher Sir Bernard Jenkin said he voted for the withdrawal agreement “against my better judgment” and added that if the bill did not seriously improve the chances of restoring the executive in Stormont, “I will vote against it”.



Trade war in 5,4,3,2....

Dead cat time
 

Paul the Wolf

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Eventually the Brexiters must finally see through the crap and bs from Johnson - surely, you know you've been conned.


  • He suggested he would like to cut tariffs on food imports. He said:
We need to grow and eat more of our own food in this country and it is sensible to protect British agriculture from cut-price or substandard food from overseas.
But we are also on the side of British consumers.
We do not grow many olives in this country that I’m aware of. Why do we have a tariff of 93p per kilo on Turkish olive oil? Why do we have a tariff on bananas? This is a truly amazing and versatile country, but as far as I know we don’t grow many bananas, not even in Blackpool.
  • Johnson refused to rule out further cuts in fuel duty. He said the government wanted companies to pass on the cut already announced to consumers. But when it was put to him that fuel duty was already too high, he replied: “I hear you.” He also said the government would continue to do everything in its power to look after the British people.
But when you were out of the EU he was going to cut VAT but couldn't and still hasn't - oh dear lied to again.


"We can’t fix the increase in the cost of living just by increasing wages to match the surge in prices, I think it’s naturally a good thing for wages to go up as skills and productivity increase - that’s what we want to see.

But when a country faces an inflationary problem you can’t just pay more and spend more, you have to find ways of tackling the underlying causes of inflation.

If wages continue to chase the increase in prices then we risk a wage-price spiral such as this country experienced in the 1970s."

So no high wages post Brexit either.
 

Pexbo

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Eventually the Brexiters must finally see through the crap and bs from Johnson - surely, you know you've been conned.


  • He suggested he would like to cut tariffs on food imports. He said:

  • Johnson refused to rule out further cuts in fuel duty. He said the government wanted companies to pass on the cut already announced to consumers. But when it was put to him that fuel duty was already too high, he replied: “I hear you.” He also said the government would continue to do everything in its power to look after the British people.
But when you were out of the EU he was going to cut VAT but couldn't and still hasn't - oh dear lied to again.


"We can’t fix the increase in the cost of living just by increasing wages to match the surge in prices, I think it’s naturally a good thing for wages to go up as skills and productivity increase - that’s what we want to see.

But when a country faces an inflationary problem you can’t just pay more and spend more, you have to find ways of tackling the underlying causes of inflation.

If wages continue to chase the increase in prices then we risk a wage-price spiral such as this country experienced in the 1970s."

So no high wages post Brexit either.
The high wages thing is hilarious.

They spent the back end of last year talking about a high wage economy, with salaries rising quicker than ever and boasting that this is thanks to them and thanks to Brexit.

They’re now imploring people to stop asking for salary increases as it’s driving inflation.

Honestly if it wasn’t so desperately pathetic and desperately infuriating it would be hilarious.
 

Paul the Wolf

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The high wages thing is hilarious.

They spent the back end of last year talking about a high wage economy, with salaries rising quicker than ever and boasting that this is thanks to them and thanks to Brexit.

They’re now imploring people to stop asking for salary increases as it’s driving inflation.

Honestly if it wasn’t so desperately pathetic and desperately infuriating it would be hilarious.
He's starting to thrash about, he's in panic mode, they should have got rid of him, he's liable to do anything to save his skin.
 

MoskvaRed

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Northern Ireland protocol bill expected to be published on Monday
Aubrey Allegretti
The long-awaited plan to “fix” problems with the post-Brexit protocol that sees Northern Ireland treated differently to Great Britain were hoped to be published today, but have been pushed into next week.

The frenzied focus of government ministers on saving Boris Johnson’s premiership means the controversial legislation to unilaterally override the protocol is likely to be published on Monday.

There will also be a summary of the legal position released, which the government says confidently will show it is not breaking international law. However, the full legal advice will not be disclosed.

It is understood that foreign secretary Liz Truss has no upcoming meeting or talks with senior EU figures, so the UK will pursue the plans and leave it up to Brussels to change its negotiating stance.

Given the tumult of the Brexit days, Tory MPs said they faced a “nerve-wrecking wait” for the publication of the bill. When it starts its progression through parliament it is expected to trigger a significant number of rebellions because many MPs believe it could break the deal signed by the UK and EU.

Today the senior Conservative backbencher Sir Bernard Jenkin said he voted for the withdrawal agreement “against my better judgment” and added that if the bill did not seriously improve the chances of restoring the executive in Stormont, “I will vote against it”.



Trade war in 5,4,3,2....

Dead cat time
The government could lose this vote. After this week’s disastrous performance in the vote of confidence, Tory MPs will be thinking about life after Johnson and some of them at least will be less willing to put their name to approving a breach of an international treaty. As for the legal advice received, given Blair and Campbell managed to bully a highly-respected lawyer like Goldsmith over the legality of invading Iraq, I’m sure someone like Braverman will sign up to anything.
 

Adisa

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Trade war in the middle of a cost of living crisis. Johnson is a genius.
 

JPRouve

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Trade war in the middle of a cost of living crisis. Johnson is a genius.
He is, isn't he. He will be able to sell the idea that the increase in cost of living is solely due to the EU which is why they had to leave it.