Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .

Maticmaker

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
4,689
Frosty said:
Cameron certainly fecked the country, but the seeds of this were sown over 40 years as Labour and the Tories used the EEC/EC/EU as a punching bag, blaming them for all their failings.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was the one thing the far left (Tony Benn etc*.) and the far right agreed on, if for different reasons. The EEC (as it was at the time) was not a good thing for advancing their political views, for the far left it was "a rich man's club," subject to perversion by the multi-nationals; for the far right it was taking control/loss of national sovereignty etc.
(* Corbyn was one who 'cut his teeth' on this)

golden_blunder said:
There were multiple off course but 2 examples that hooked people in, the red bus proclaiming millions back to the nhs and gove setting the narrative in peoples heads that you don’t need to listen to expert opinion, essentially brainwashing people.
Click to expand...
Yes, lots of 'tall tales', to be fair on both sides were put into play in the run up to the referendum itself, but in many previous years of Tory mismanagement and Labours navel gazing and feeble opposition, left many people with nowhere to go to effect change, then up-stepped Cameron with what in simple terms became "shall we try something different" or shall we "stick with what we have". Everybody thought they could understand that!
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
119,986
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Paul the Wolf said:
I was pretty sure the result would be leave too.

The government had been blaming the EU for years for their failures, always deflecting the blame. To accentuate the brainwashing they even managed to persuade red wall seats to vote for the party that were responsible for their problems. Now it's Covid and Ukraine and not Brexit.
Click to expand...
They are lucky in that they have had covid and the war in ukraine to deflect people rather than hearing the real hard questions as a result of brexit
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,483
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
Paul the Wolf said:
I was pretty sure the result would be leave too.

The government had been blaming the EU for years for their failures, always deflecting the blame. To accentuate the brainwashing they even managed to persuade red wall seats to vote for the party that were responsible for their problems. Now it's Covid and Ukraine and not Brexit.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
I honestly do believe that some people thought that they were in some way punishing the EU by voting to leave.
They saw the EU as the big bad guy who dared to pass laws which were to the benefit of the Union and not specifically the UK.
What they did not think of was that by voting to leaving the Union, they were actually punishing themselves and not the EU.
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,815
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
Buster15 said:
Exactly.
I honestly do believe that some people thought that they were in some way punishing the EU by voting to leave.
They saw the EU as the big bad guy who dared to pass laws which were to the benefit of the Union and not specifically the UK.
What they did not think of was that by voting to leaving the Union, they were actually punishing themselves and not the EU.
Click to expand...
They had managed to paint the image of the EU as some anonymous monster intent on harming the UK whereas in fact the UK was one of the major players in what the EU did.

The UK have left and there's no going back in the foreseeable future. Damage limitation is the only possibility.

So what do people actually expect to happen now? I really don't see how they would believe that their lives will improve one iota.
 
Last edited:

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,669
Paul the Wolf said:
The UK have left and there's no going back in the foreseeable future. Damage limitation is the only possibility.

So what do people actually expect to happen now? I really don't see how they would believe that their lives will improve one iota.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure we will have to go back in some shape or form even if it is just as a rule taker. Being outside the single market will wreck our economy. Ultimately we will have to make huge internal political changes to modernise ourselves enough to make that work:

1) we need a new electoral system so that our politics cannot again be highjacked by a small group of newspaper owners aided and abetted by a conservative party representing a minority of the country but with a majority in Parliament. Populist lies have led us into this mess - they cannot lead us out. The Europeans simply won't trust us as long as we remain politically backward to this degree.

2) we need to ditch the monarchy. English nationalism is too inflexible and socially heirarchicial to accomadate an international perspective that is post imperial. It's no concidence that the Eton set who brought us Brexit are also fierce monarchists. Without a more socially mobile society we will continue to be divided as a country by class, nationality and race. Those divisions allow us to be manipulated by self serving elites.

3) we can't sign up to free movement of people completely and we need to establish natonal ID cards and other ways of securing our borders agaisnt mass migration. Not because it is currently a problem or because foreigners are evil, but because over a billion people are set to be displaced by climate change in the coming decades. A huge number of those people will head to Europe, far more than we are currently seeing, with even more dramatic implications for political stability there. However we do have a labour shortage which is creating inflation and bottlenecking growth, so that needs addressing coherently.

4) we need to invest in wealth creating industries like silicon manufacture on a massive scale. Taiwan currently does 90% of the world's silicon chips and when it gets retaken by China, that global industry will be up for grabs. America is already preparing for that but Europe is not. We should do this while we are out of the single market because once we are back in we won't be able to. We need to massively increase our R&D budget and attract and keep the best brains however we can. We also need to become world leaders in renewable energy, both as users and manufacturers. Otherwise fossil fuel costs will permanently crippple our economy.

If we don't do all these things, we will simply slide down the scale of wealthy countries, first becoming Italy and eventually over the course of 100 years becoming Albania. You're welcome.
 
Last edited:

Maticmaker

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
4,689
Paul the Wolf said:
I was pretty sure the result would be leave too.

The government had been blaming the EU for years for their failures, always deflecting the blame. To accentuate the brainwashing they even managed to persuade red wall seats to vote for the party that were responsible for their problems. Now it's Covid and Ukraine and not Brexit.
Click to expand...
I agree that all UK governments for years made scapegoats out of the EC, remember the headlines about J Delors, especially the red tops the Mirror and the Sun.
However, I disagree about the red wall, this was all Labours own doing. For years Labour had run local councils and of course had Labour MPs in these constituencies, but the effort by Labour to, as we now call it 'levelling up' was practically nonexistent. They played political games, whilst these areas they were responsible for slowly slid into decay, unemployment rising, town centers becoming dilapidated, various companies many embedded for years were going to the wall, schools being run-down, and with hardly a murmur from the Labour controlled Councils/MP's.
There were exceptions of course some notable MPs, Frank Field for one, fought tooth and nail, but most accepted that at the next election come what may Labour would win the Council and the constituencies, so they got on with their infighting and proving their international socialist credentials. The irony being that even when Labour were in government it always seemed like the red wall areas were on the back row when it came to handing out the goodies!

Of course, for many years the Tories had given up on the red wall areas feeling nothing they could do would cause the necessary 'swing' to occur... then of course Brexit came along, a chance for a change, but Labour couldn't seem to make up its mind and the Tories stepped in, and with some help from Farage, persuaded many lifelong Labour voters to hold their noses and vote Tory; and as my grandfather would have said "may the Lord have mercy on their souls".
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,815
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
Rishi Sunak giving speech to CBI
Sunak claims Brexit 'already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities' for UK
Q: How are you going to change relations with the EU on legal immigration and trade?

Sunak says he has already covered immigration.

He says he voted for Brexit. He claims it is “already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities for the country”. He cites control of immigration as one example.


If only someone knew what those enormous benefits and opportunities were.
 

FireballXL5

Full Member
Joined
May 9, 2015
Messages
10,085
'If only someone knew what those enormous benefits and opportunities were.'

There aren't any, and he's lying.
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,483
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
Paul the Wolf said:
Rishi Sunak giving speech to CBI
Sunak claims Brexit 'already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities' for UK
Q: How are you going to change relations with the EU on legal immigration and trade?

Sunak says he has already covered immigration.

He says he voted for Brexit. He claims it is “already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities for the country”. He cites control of immigration as one example.


If only someone knew what those enormous benefits and opportunities were.
Click to expand...
In that speech to the CBI, Sunak pointed out that "having proper control of our borders is a major benefit of Brexit"

Spot the deliberate mistake....
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
119,986
Location
Dublin, Ireland
Paul the Wolf said:
Rishi Sunak giving speech to CBI
Sunak claims Brexit 'already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities' for UK
Q: How are you going to change relations with the EU on legal immigration and trade?

Sunak says he has already covered immigration.

He says he voted for Brexit. He claims it is “already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities for the country”. He cites control of immigration as one example.


If only someone knew what those enormous benefits and opportunities were.
Click to expand...
Clearly telling lies. Barefaced. How about owning up to their responsibilities and trying to fix it or at least make it less worse
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,815
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
Buster15 said:
In that speech to the CBI, Sunak pointed out that "having proper control of our borders is a major benefit of Brexit"

Spot the deliberate mistake....
Click to expand...
For the so-called control of immigration, Brexit was a disaster.
It meant pulling out of the Dublin agreement.

It was supposed to be a fairer system - fairer to who?

Now there's a labour shortage for the jobs that really need doing but immigration has increased. Now you've got the wrong type of immigrant, not before.

There's no safe route for genuine asylum seekers.
The illegal immigrants are actually mainly those who overstay their welcome on tourist visas and melt into the background.

Plus there are not enough staff to treat the applications for immigration and there are not enough people to trace the real illegal immigrants.
 

ShinjiNinja26

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2013
Messages
11,144
Location
Location, Location
Paul the Wolf said:
How one person ever believed in any of this rubbish is amazing. How over 17 million did is beyond belief.
Click to expand...
Aye. This is the most frustrating and mind blowing thing about this whole mess. It literally took all of 5 minutes research to realise the whole thing was a load of bollocks yet millions still swallowed it up. I’m convinced most didn’t give a shit about the consequences and just went in with that bigoted “little England” mentality to get the immigrants out. Ironic really considering there’s more immigrants rocking up on the shores of Britain now than there ever was pre Brexit.
 

TwoSheds

More sheds (and tiles) than you, probably
Joined
Feb 12, 2014
Messages
12,963
Paul the Wolf said:
Rishi Sunak giving speech to CBI
Sunak claims Brexit 'already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities' for UK
Q: How are you going to change relations with the EU on legal immigration and trade?

Sunak says he has already covered immigration.

He says he voted for Brexit. He claims it is “already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities for the country”. He cites control of immigration as one example.


If only someone knew what those enormous benefits and opportunities were.
Click to expand...
Well dinghy donations to the Home Office are through the roof tbf. We must be making loads of money flogging them back to the people traffickers in France. Might even fill a little of the hole left by loaning a load of fake companies cash during the pandemic that they squirreled away overseas!
 

Brwned

Have you ever been in love before?
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
50,848
ShinjiNinja26 said:
Aye. This is the most frustrating and mind blowing thing about this whole mess. It literally took all of 5 minutes research to realise the whole thing was a load of bollocks yet millions still swallowed it up. I’m convinced most didn’t give a shit about the consequences and just went in with that bigoted “little England” mentality to get the immigrants out. Ironic really considering there’s more immigrants rocking up on the shores of Britain now than there ever was pre Brexit.
Click to expand...
Wish Strachan’s Cigar was still here to explain that one…
Strachans Cigar said:
No, I can’t agree that leaving the EU isn’t a solution to that problem because the “problem” has two parts: both EU and Non-EU immigration. Control only one and you aren’t controlling both.

As regards Non-EU immigration post-Brexit, the Government seem to be broadly aligned to my own thinking, which is to get the net figure down. They want it down to around 100k. Ideally, I’d like net migration to be lower than that but hey-ho.

Regarding how they will do this, well, we are lacking on the finer details at the moment:

“The Government is proposing a single, unified immigration system to apply to everyone who wants to come to the UK after Brexit. The system will be based on the current immigration rules for non-EU nationals, with many changes.”

https://commonslibrary.parliament.u...the-immigration-bill-an-end-to-free-movement/
Click to expand...
That 100k will be taking hold any day now…
 

Buster15

Go on Didier
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
13,483
Location
Bristol
Supports
Bristol Rovers
https://news.sky.com/story/uk-sees-highest-net-migration-since-second-world-war-12754404

Take back control of our borders was one of the primary claims of Brexit. Remember that.

And yet net migration of over 504,000 !!!!

So. To all those gullible halfwits who swallowed the lies, well done.
You have successfully trashed the UK economy for absolutely nothing.
Hope you are honest enough to admit that you have been conned by Boris and the rest of them.
 

Dumbstar

We got another woman hater here.
Joined
Jul 18, 2002
Messages
21,245
Location
Viva Karius!
Supports
Liverpool
To be fair to Hunt :nervous: he was at least listening to the questions and addressing them. After making her important points Eleanor Rigby would have been better served asking what plans he had to correct the OBR findings he did not agree with.

It's how far we've fallen when you're not having to listen about pork markets and immigration numbers from Patil/Cruella to every question.
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,815
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
Brexit is like a prolonged football match.

Everyone knew the UK were in for a heavy defeat. By how many goals depended not on the opposition but on how many own goals they would score.
Some supporters still thought they could still win despite being 15-0 down after less than 2 years.

New signings were vastly over-rated and a huge disappointment like the Aussie deal, the Japanese deal and the new Immigration policy.

Some signings never materialised like the USA deal and CPTTP but were vastly over-rated anyway.

After 5 different managers before half-time and the lack of (freedom of) movement the inevitable outcome is assured.
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
52,261
Location
The stable
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-to-uk-food-bills-in-two-years-research-finds

Brexit added nearly £6bn to UK food bills in two years, research finds

Cost of food imported from EU rose because of extra red tape, with poorest most affected

One benefit of Brexit was that domestic food producers now faced less competition from European imports, the report noted.

But it added: “The gains to domestic firms are outstripped by the loss to domestic consumers by more than £1bn. Additionally, unlike regular tariffs, NTBs do not generate any revenue for the government.”
Click to expand...
 

groovyalbert

it's a mute point
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
9,686
Location
London
Brexit. The most stupid socio-economic/political experiment - utter self-infliction. Only way to begin the process of undoing the damage is to rejoin the EU.

Feck the "will of the people" bullshite - people are stupid. This should have been left to MPs, and it would never have happened.

I work with loads of overseas companies looking to come into the UK, and they're now just focusing attention elsewhere. Not worth the hassle.
 

Bepi

Full Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
3,875
Location
Italy
Supports
Juventus
RedSky said:
It's just the new pipedream that these Tories like to dangle for the gullible among us.
Click to expand...
Bloody TV Karens united as one and all conspirating against Tories’ field of ponies!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.