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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


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Paul the Wolf

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And all those years ago there was no brexit
There was no EC/EU in the UK either in the 60s when I was growing up. The point is that if the UK voted against immigration in Brexit, they could only have been voting against immigration from EU citizens. Whom are they going to vote against next now that the overwhelming number of immigrants are from outside the EU? They have total control (and always did have) but now both the Tories and Labour both spout the rubbish "We've lost control of our borders" because of the tiny number of people in boats. And furthermore neither have any idea of the number of real illegal immigrants who arrive, say on a tourist visa, don't go back and vanish into the ether.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports, where they can contact border control, they do not have to pay a human trafficker £000's to cross one of the busiest and most dangerous waterways in the world in order to get here, they are told to dispose of all their papers as they cross, to hide their identity and country of origin.
Afghan refugee's are given a safe route, they follow that route.
Almost all Channel migrants arrive without passports after being told to shred ID (telegraph.co.uk)
Most of those arriving are also young men, the ratio of older men, women and children to younger men is very low.
For every story, every report, there is a counter story, I will believe what my friends who work for the RNLI and rescue these people tell me what is happening.
It's not up to border control to process their application. There should be proper places like embassies and processing centres etc but the Uk have been offered this; They don't want it because if the boat people problem was actually solved they'd have to find someone else to blame. Telegraph, hmm. It's not illegal to leave a country. They were offered places in Calais to process people - no they didn't want that. There are less than a handful of safe routes to the UK available to these people. These boat crossings only really started after Brexit. You have to be in the country to claim asylum which they have the right to do.
 

Tarrou

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Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports
I'm only going by what I've googled here but this is what the Amnesty International website says on the matter

The Home Secretary has created two visa routes for people to receive asylum in the UK from the war in Ukraine – one is based on having family in the UK, the other on having someone in the UK willing to provide a home.

There is also a visa route for Afghans who have previously worked for the UK Government (including the British Army) and can show serious risks to them in Afghanistan because of this.

And the partners and children of people granted asylum in the UK may apply for a visa to be reunited in the UK – though the Nationality and Borders Act 2022 was passed to close or significantly obstruct this route to most people who would otherwise be eligible for it.

Otherwise, there are no visa schemes for anyone fleeing persecution to apply to receive asylum in the UK – no matter what family or other connection the person may have here.
 

Paul the Wolf

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And it's such a great idea that no-one else has thought of it
Hmm. Yes.

I'm just going to hire a coach and go and collect all the British people I know who shouldn't be here, overstayers . Can round up about 20 or 30 in a 10 miles radius. Now shall I take them to the airport and put them on a plane back to blighty or send them to North Korea as I have decided that it is a safe place. I'd love to see the indignation on their faces.
 

Matt Varnish

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It's not up to border control to process their application. There should be proper places like embassies and processing centres etc but the Uk have been offered this; They don't want it because if the boat people problem was actually solved they'd have to find someone else to blame. Telegraph, hmm. It's not illegal to leave a country. They were offered places in Calais to process people - no they didn't want that. There are less than a handful of safe routes to the UK available to these people. These boat crossings only really started after Brexit. You have to be in the country to claim asylum which they have the right to do.
I don't think you know how Border Control works.
If you arrive in the UK without the necessary documents you were taken to a holding centre, those centres have been overrun by the numbers arriving, so they are being sent to other holding places like hotels, disused army camps or even accommodation barges.
Article 31 of the UN convention on refugees states
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

A lot depends here on how to interpret which country people are “coming directly from”. It could be argued, for instance, that as the people crossing the channel are coming directly from France—which is not the country they initially fled—they don’t have the right to claim asylum in the UK.
 

Berbasbullet

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I don't think you know how Border Control works.
If you arrive in the UK without the necessary documents you were taken to a holding centre, those centres have been overrun by the numbers arriving, so they are being sent to other holding places like hotels, disused army camps or even accommodation barges.
Article 31 of the UN convention on refugees states
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

A lot depends here on how to interpret which country people are “coming directly from”. It could be argued, for instance, that as the people crossing the channel are coming directly from France—which is not the country they initially fled—they don’t have the right to claim asylum in the UK.
There is no obligation for asylum seekers to apply for asylum in the first country they enter, otherwise it’d be hugely unfair on neighbouring countries and lucky for those that are on islands.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I don't think you know how Border Control works.
If you arrive in the UK without the necessary documents you were taken to a holding centre, those centres have been overrun by the numbers arriving, so they are being sent to other holding places like hotels, disused army camps or even accommodation barges.
Article 31 of the UN convention on refugees states
"Although it’s certainly true that crossing the Channel without authorisation isn’t a legal way to enter the UK, Article 31 of the UN Refugee Convention states that refugees cannot be penalised for entering the country illegally to claim asylum if they are “coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened” provided they “present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence”.

A lot depends here on how to interpret which country people are “coming directly from”. It could be argued, for instance, that as the people crossing the channel are coming directly from France—which is not the country they initially fled—they don’t have the right to claim asylum in the UK.
They have to be on British soil to claim Asylum ie in an Embassy or actually not stopped at a border point. You don't understand. France is not the first country they enter. They can choose whichever country they want to claim asylum.

Under your logic all the countries would send everyone back to where they first entered Europe. Additionally if someone were to be sent to Rwanda they could claim that they were already in a safe country before, ie the UK.

And the places are overrun because the government is not processing the people. Probably the people processing them were EU citizens and they've all gone back to the EU, the irony.
 
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Krakenzero

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Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports, where they can contact border control, they do not have to pay a human trafficker £000's to cross one of the busiest and most dangerous waterways in the world in order to get here, they are told to dispose of all their papers as they cross, to hide their identity and country of origin.
The inherent characteristics of an asylum seeker say otherwise. They usually seek for asylum because they are somehow persecuted by the state or the state's laws in their countries of origin. Therefore they tend to not have the means to arrive to a different country by airports and ports as they'd need passports or VISA with clearance from their countries of origin to do that.

In order to circunvent this, most countries allow embassies to act as both a safe haven for asylum seekers and a way to adequately command and control the process. The UK does not, therefore leaving them with no feasible legal way to seek for asylum.

Now if you're talking about illegal immigration, that's a different beast.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Badenoch may just be dumber than Truss...

‘It’s all a bit marginal’: claims of Brexit trade perks don’t add up, say firms

A business department report trumpeting the four-year benefits of leaving the EU does not match the reality faced by companies

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...irms-business-department-leaving-eu-companies
Anyone who thought Brexit was a good idea at the time of the referendum was stupid, uninformed and gullible.
Anyone who still thinks Brexit is a good idea is a moronic dildo, to put it politely.
 

Wibble

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Another of those idiots who it never occurred to that any change of rules would apply to them even if it isn't convenient.

Then again anyone who takes their political advice from listening to a metal band's singer has to be a bit thick.
 

Giggsyking

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Another of those idiots who it never occurred to that any change of rules would apply to them even if it isn't convenient.

Then again anyone who takes their political advice from listening to a metal band's singer has to be a bit thick.
There is an exception though,

 

Stanley Road

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Another of those idiots who it never occurred to that any change of rules would apply to them even if it isn't convenient.

Then again anyone who takes their political advice from listening to a metal band's singer has to be a bit thick.
First of all I really like his views on why he doesn't want to pay tax in UK.

Secondly I hate his music and don't understand why I can see any British band I want in NL yet he has issues.
 

Wibble

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Any true asylum seeker has a safe route into this country via the airports and ports, where they can contact border control, they do not have to pay a human trafficker £000's to cross one of the busiest and most dangerous waterways in the world in order to get here, they are told to dispose of all their papers as they cross, to hide their identity and country of origin.
Afghan refugee's are given a safe route, they follow that route.
Almost all Channel migrants arrive without passports after being told to shred ID (telegraph.co.uk)
Most of those arriving are also young men, the ratio of older men, women and children to younger men is very low.
For every story, every report, there is a counter story, I will believe what my friends who work for the RNLI and rescue these people tell me what is happening.
You have to be pretty desperate to risk your life on a boat crossing no matter who you consider a "genuine" refugee, and don't you think they would arrive by safer ways if they could?

Stupid and cruel and likely illegal "solutions" like Rwanda treat a symptom and not the cause. And give the Tories the bragging wrights to saving middle England from (mostly dark skinned) dangerous foreigners.
 

Wibble

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And it's such a great idea that no-one else has thought of it
Apart from Australia. We having been doing it for years. The sad thing is that indefinite offshore detention in a gulag does actually reduce boat arrivals. As long as you don't mind permanently victimising already traumatised people by subjecting them to never ending mental and physical abuse, at incredible cost, mostly for political point scoring.
 

Wibble

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Frosty

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Yes I can hear you Clem Fandango!

Paul the Wolf

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Brexit...feck yeah!

Brexit has cost UK food companies exporting to EU an extra £170m

Exclusive: Data shows costs have contributed to value of meat exports falling by 17% since 2019


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/21/uk-food-firms-exporting-eu-brexit-red-tape
Quote: Labour has said that if it gets into power, it will aim to strike a veterinary agreement with the EU, which would remove the need for some of these costs but could take years to finalise and would require the UK to agree with EU standards on these goods.

Labour still don't understand the problem and keep harping on about this stupid Veterinary Agreement.