Sassy Colin
Death or the gladioli!
Leave the Forum and close down your account.The feck is Eboue?
Leave the Forum and close down your account.The feck is Eboue?
Leader of the clique. Express your support quick or they'll turn on you, en masse.The feck is Eboue?
Indeed... though in many ways i think it was more a general protest about politics ....l think only a few percent from either side will have changed opinion... The real battle in a second referendum is getting the people who did not vote before to vote (I believe more didn't vote than voted for either leave or remain)Given all we now know, that most leave voters still want to leave makes the idea their vote was a protest even less convincing. It makes no sense to stick to a protest vote when your message has been delivered loud and clear. .
Even the slight demographic changes that will have occured in the last 2-3 years will give a slight boost to remain too I should think. The issue is so polarised by age that I have no doubt we've lost a lot of Leave voters and welcomed a decent number of new pro-EU voters into the electorate since the vote. In a way, the longer a 2nd referendum takes to happen the better from a Remain perspective.Indeed... though in many ways i think it was more a general protest about politics ....l think only a few percent from either side will have changed opinion... The real battle in a second referendum is getting the people who did not vote before to vote (I believe more didn't vote than voted for either leave or remain)
Yes, I said earlier that it has to be done before 29th March and they would probably work until the last minute if there was a strong probability that the UK cancelled it but, and it's a big but, the EU doesn't just revolve around the UK and the EU have got to start putting into place the scenario for no deal if they see that the deal is voted down on the 11th December.I'm interested what makes you think we'd need to do it so quickly? If we ended up wanting to revoke in February why couldn't that be done?
Whatever the obstacles given the significance of the event i can't see anything but working to the 11th hour
Hope you did the right thing and twatted him oneHad an argument about brexit with my dad (a Leave voter) last night. Depressing.
They don't seem worried about the car industry which would all but disappear if it was no deal and who employ far more people than the fishing industry.Discussing with a leaver just then. They've twisted it round to them somehow being deceived since the vote, rather than before it. As if they know leaving would be good still, but that the gov doesn't want to so they're sabotaging the negotiations and going for a 2nd vote. Possibly (hopefully) some truth to it, but they still can't admit it was obviously going to be a shitshow the whole time, so why fecking vote that way?
They ended with the usual justification when asked that about fishermen in the channel or something. I've no idea why they all give a shit about fishing all of a sudden, and not about every common man and woman in the country instead.
It won't happen before the commons vote. To do so would mean Corbyn giving up any hope of ever putting his policies into place. May would go to town on him trying to block brexit.I can't see it happening...
But I agree with this article
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/jeremy-corbyn-ever-wants-become-152848348.html
If Corbyn used the debate to come out and switch labour policy to backing a second referendum it could be a game changer... And would certainly make the debate tough for may as I doubt she would be prepared for that.
As I say I can't see it though
Possibly... Though if he stands there for 90 mins without something other than his 6 tests and renegotiation he will look like a fool when he's continually reminded that the EU have said not a chanceI struggle to see Corbyn backing any second referendum before a TV debate largely because the Tories/May would thus paint him as an enormous hypocrite, someone deceiving the public all the way only to change tact at the last moment etc.
True, their strategy of basically pretending the issue doesn't exist had arguably worked tactically so far but was always going to look ridiculous in the long-term.Possibly... Though if he stands there for 90 mins without something other than his 6 tests and renegotiation he will look like a fool when he's continually reminded that the EU have said not a chance
Be it a Norway style deal... A second referendum... A hard brexit... Whatever they have to have something to say
... To summarize this article they have to choose
https://amp.theguardian.com/comment...ared-for-speed-chess-brexit-especially-labour
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That is pretty good analysis. Labour cannot continue with the ducking and fudging.
I'm not really sure it's worked for them at all. All the arguments in favour of it are rooted in the counter factual ('well, if they'd taken a strong position they might have lost voters in x, y, and z') whilst their irrelevance on the political stage has pushed the window further away from what they want from a point after the referendum when even Boris was said to be in favour of a soft Brexit to the ERG managing push the Tories harder and harder.True, their strategy of basically pretending the issue doesn't exist had arguably worked tactically so far but was always going to look ridiculous in the long-term.
Along those lines, from today:
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Beyond a joke now.
Of course it's not a win, it's only damage control.I'm not really sure it's worked for them at all. All the arguments in favour of it are rooted in the counter factual ('well, if they'd taken a strong position they might have lost voters in x, y, and z') whilst their irrelevance on the political stage has pushed the window further away from what they want from a point after the referendum when even Boris was said to be in favour of a soft Brexit to the ERG managing push the Tories harder and harder.
At the same time, the great political play of not taking a position has, at best, put them very slightly ahead of a government that is almost historically incompetent. Polling figures that would, in any other scenario rightly worry an opposition party.
So I'm struggling to see it as anything approaching a win for Labour. I think they'll unfortunately be mired in the whole mess as a party too spineless to oppose the excesses of the Tories feckwittery.
They also seem pathologically incapable of doing anything beyond saying Theresa May is bad.It's simply too late for Labour to steal the narrative on brexit.
It's all I ever get from my dad now. Anytime I'm in the same room as him it's 'oh I bet you're happy now aren't you?'.Had an argument about brexit with my dad (a Leave voter) last night. Depressing.
Their strategy is to wait and see and then skew their reaction to whatever occurs to their best advantage. Having sat on the fence with fudged statements throughout they can also claim they told us all this from day one.They also seem pathologically incapable of doing anything beyond saying Theresa May is bad.
The story about Labour strategists trying to shape the debate so he could talk about austerity instead of Brexit, showed exactly how much of a feck he gives about it.
I dont disagree with anything you have said. On your last point I think the people will realise too late that the EU really wasnt the problem.I totally agree with your first point but you have to take into account the greed and immorality of the human being. People got rich off of selling loans. It mattered not if the people that the loans were made to could afford them. It was all about get rich quick.
On the second point. Yes the Tories like blaming the EU for our problems but if we leave and the problems get worse will the public continue to agree with them or believe that it was all the fault of the party who took them out of Europe?
I would say that your position within the EU would likely be weakened slightly because of the Brexit attempt but no one knows.I don't get this narrative that if the deal is not accepted, then we risk no deal, or no Brexit.
What's the risk of no Brexit?
Serves us fecking right then, doesn't it?I would say that your position within the EU would likely be weakened slightly because of the Brexit attempt but no one knows.
Our position in the EU has always been weak and seen as something of a pariah because of our continual dismissal of the EU elections as an excuse to protest by sending numpties like Farrage to Brussels who only serve to disrupt and show contempt for the Union when they can be arsed to show up at all.I would say that your position within the EU would likely be weakened slightly because of the Brexit attempt but no one knows.
Brexiters see it as a risk. The wording is aimed directly at them.I don't get this narrative that if the deal is not accepted, then we risk no deal, or no Brexit.
What's the risk of no Brexit?
If Brexit does get scrapped (unlikely), I imagine the EU will insert a clause that doesn't allow for article 50 activation for another 20 years or so.Serves us fecking right then, doesn't it?
I agree yes. This whole mess could easily have been avoided.Serves us fecking right then, doesn't it?