Paul the Wolf
Full Member
And time is the most crucial of all in the sense of avoiding delays at all costs.You can but it's going to cost you space, money, manpower and time.
And time is the most crucial of all in the sense of avoiding delays at all costs.You can but it's going to cost you space, money, manpower and time.
None of which is on their side given their preparations (to state the obvious).You can but it's going to cost you space, money, manpower and time.
I was being pedantic here. It's possible but no one wants to pay the cost because it's incredibly dumb when you can just be in a custom union which is why custom unions were invented. The alternative is a waste of money and space.None of which is on their side given their preparations (to state the obvious).
I'm mostly replying actually because I realized I forgot to finish my earlier post. I meant to add that, given those problems, that freight traffic is down a lot, and that a good chunk of rules have delayed until July by the UK, the expectation of logistics experts interviewed in the article I read is that what we're seeing right now is actually the quite before the storm. They expect things to be get much worse come summer (which is likely too soon for the UK to fix their practical issues).
If traffic was normal pre-Covid and certain requirements weren't postponed, all the ports would be at a standstill .None of which is on their side given their preparations (to state the obvious).
I'm mostly replying actually because I realized I forgot to finish my earlier post. I meant to add that, given those problems, that freight traffic is down a lot, and that a good chunk of rules have delayed until July by the UK, the expectation of logistics experts interviewed in the article I read is that what we're seeing right now is actually the quite before the storm. They expect things to be get much worse come summer (which is likely too soon for the UK to fix their practical issues).
Another Dutch article I read a week ago interview people from the Dutch food inspection agency. They mentioned that, in something like the first two weeks of January (it may have been 16 or 20 days, but anyway), zero (zero!) shipments had arrived in the Netherlands without any documentation issues. This may have been only lorries coming through ferries, I'm not 100% sure, but it remains shocking one way or another.If traffic was normal pre-Covid and certain requirements weren't postponed, all the ports would be at a standstill .
I still don't think the point is really understood. Requirements in documentation have at least doubled in the last twenty years for third party trade, health, safety and climate leading this. Certain products like food require even more than most. So from just supplying an invoice and a packing list they have to supply dozens of documents and relying on many different people such as vets, inspectors, logistic people and so on to complete them all and complete them correctly is almost impossible if the time frame is to deliver something within a day or days.
If you're shipping something to the USA for example which takes several weeks you have less pressure on the timescale.
It's amazing how that point didn't seem obvious to the UK. What were the no-deal people thinking? (Well, full freedom of decision over practicalities, I guess.)I was being pedantic here. It's possible but no one wants to pay the cost because it's incredibly dumb when you can just be in a custom union which is why custom unions were invented. The alternative is a waste of money and space.
UK Traders who have experience in trading with countries outside the EU would know what to do in general but whether they would have time to do it, very difficult . Considering that a lot of companies who only traded within the EU have no experience at all.Another Dutch article I read a week ago interview people from the Dutch food inspection agency. They mentioned that, in something like the first two weeks of January (it may have been 16 or 20 days, but anyway), zero (zero!) shipments had arrived in the Netherlands without any documentation issues. This may have been only lorries coming through ferries, I'm not 100% sure, but it remains shocking one way or another.
It's amazing how that point didn't seem obvious to the UK. What were the no-deal people thinking? (Well, full freedom of decision over practicalities, I guess.)
The people in UK customs do understand and it's all written in the UK border model:The UK will never be ready, they do not understand how trade with a third country works. You cannot operate a country which conducts most of its trade with its closest geographical neighbours outside a custom's union. If it's delayed to 2043 it still wouldn't be suitable. This is what the UK voted for even if they didn't realise it. They already have the best of two bad options, the other was a hard border on the island of Ireland.
If there wasn't the pandemic limiting the trade, it would be even worse.
If I remember correctly when the point was raised, some talked about a new technology, a lack of will from the EU and that the EU would make a custom agreement on the UK's terms due to German car manufacturers, Italian Prosecco producers and french farmers.It's amazing how that point didn't seem obvious to the UK. What were the no-deal people thinking? (Well, full freedom of decision over practicalities, I guess.)
You mean that the EU and Switzerland have a joint veterinary committee. They don't just recognize standards.The people in UK customs do understand and it's all written in the UK border model:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-border-operating-model
UK isn't putting a proper border up until July essentially. The problem is maybe the government don't understand or aren't listening.
Things like phytosanitary certificates are a big problem because the UK and EU don't have enough vets to deal with the volume of trade in fresh foods and you can't scale Vets up very fast....
Switzerland doesn't have these problems because there are bi-lateral agreements so standards are dual recognised for phytosanitary etc.
No idea why UK / EU aren't seemingly trying to come to similar agreements to smooth the flow of trade. The trade deal as written is a mutual economic suicide pact. UK and EU both lose out in economic terms. All I can think is that no one wants to "lose face" and do something about it until the problems crystallise.
Yes as part of the agreement, no reason the UK / EU don't ultimately have similar arrangements.You mean that the EU and Switzerland have a joint veterinary committee. They don't just recognize standards.
There is an obvious reason that you know perfectly, it's the same reason why they left the EUCU and left the EEA.Yes as part of the agreement, no reason the UK / EU don't ultimately have similar arrangements.
No idea how either side expects trade to work in these kinds of products to work medium term without a similar agreement due to the complications with certificates, amount of Vets and the sheer paper load of it.
Past experience of UK customs does not assure me that they have much clue of what they're doing, plus they are very understaffed. But that's by the by.The people in UK customs do understand and it's all written in the UK border model:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-border-operating-model
UK isn't putting a proper border up until July essentially. The problem is maybe the government don't understand or aren't listening.
Things like phytosanitary certificates are a big problem because the UK and EU don't have enough vets to deal with the volume of trade in fresh foods and you can't scale Vets up very fast....
Switzerland doesn't have these problems because there are bi-lateral agreements so standards are dual recognised for phytosanitary etc.
No idea why UK / EU aren't seemingly trying to come to similar agreements to smooth the flow of trade. The trade deal as written is a mutual economic suicide pact. UK and EU both lose out in economic terms. All I can think is that no one wants to "lose face" and do something about it until the problems crystallise.
Sounds more like the DUP, the Tories want to extend a transition period of two years of the protocol.Quite remarkable but also predictable that the brexit deal is already unraveling. Now, tories are calling for the NI protocol to be scrapped.
We will be talking about Brexit for years and years.
What about Martinique (Lesser Antilles), isn't that a French Overseas Region?
And Guadeloupe , there are plenty more , Guyane actually has a land border with the Americas.What about Martinique (Lesser Antilles), isn't that a French Overseas Region?
"They seek them here , they seek them there, those dammed Frenches are everywhere!!!"And Guadeloupe , there are plenty more , Guyane actually has a land border with the Americas.
Ah but you can see how we can grow our own straight bananas within the EU."They seek them here , they seek them there, those dammed Frenches are everywhere!!!"
You would think France would be better off outside the EU, since much of it seems to be no where near Europe?
Precisely. Just goes to show the breadth or lack of it of their knowledge of the countries of the EU.If I remember correctly when the point was raised, some talked about a new technology, a lack of will from the EU and that the EU would make a custom agreement on the UK's terms due to German car manufacturers, Italian Prosecco producers and french farmers.
It's good for the paper industry. I mean, I hope everything is digital, but you never know.Just more teething troubles. Is this the Brexit dividend they were talking about?
Brexit: 71 pages of paperwork for 1 lorry of fish
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55887043
Brexit is great for the treesIt's good for the paper industry. I mean, I hope everything is digital, but you never know.
The rules haven't changed since the referendum, as soon as the Uk voted to leave they should have started preparing , on the other hand if they had bothered to check what was involved prior to the referendum it is highly unlikely they would have voted for Brexit.Just more teething troubles. Is this the Brexit dividend they were talking about?
Brexit: 71 pages of paperwork for 1 lorry of fish
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55887043
isnt this remarkably similar to the stories of EU waste that boris johnson used to file as a reporter?Just more teething troubles. Is this the Brexit dividend they were talking about?
Brexit: 71 pages of paperwork for 1 lorry of fish
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55887043
How many pages required for goods from eu to uk?The rules haven't changed since the referendum, as soon as the Uk voted to leave they should have started preparing , on the other hand if they had bothered to check what was involved prior to the referendum it is highly unlikely they would have voted for Brexit.
Not teething troubles, welcome to the real world.
Who knows, don't think they're ready yet, does anyone know what the UK regulations are, they haven't got the inspection facilities in place. The only thing I've seen is that they've asked overseas companies to register in the UK for VAT (!?) and bring a bond - don't think they know what they're doing . Imagine the uproar if the EU asked UK companies to do the same.How many pages required for goods from eu to uk?
Is that quote serious?Steve
There's nothing whimsical about this. It's not unexpected by many in the industry and some would say it's par for the course. I have family connections with a trawler operating out of Plymouth and asked the skipper of one about this type of issue pre- the conclusion of the agreement. His view was that a difficult period was expected for a while once we left the EU but eventually, he thought sense would prevail because of supply and demand issues, which lost me a bit.
He said that various types of fish etc stock had wildly different levels which is why the fishing negotiations took so long. As I understand it, the EU countries now don't have access to decent shellfish sources, whereas we have better waters, thanks to the gulf stream. The Med is quite depleted and it's progressively pushed Europe's boats into our waters.
I don't know more than that but maybe there's a bit more willingness now to be less inflammatory about such matters. As I read it, a whelk that was acceptable to France a few weeks ago is not now, which is hard to work out.
Understatement of the century from that article:Bump for Brexit!
Brexit worse than feared, says JD Sports boss
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55997641
I thought she had gone away forever, unfortunately not.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
"we should have been told the truth"Always laugh when people say "we were lied to".
No, you chose to believe the lie. You were looking for fairy tales.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
https://www.ft.com/content/3dad4ef3-59e8-437e-8f63-f629a5b7d0aaAmsterdam surpassed London as Europe’s largest share trading centre last month as the Netherlands scooped up business lost by the UK since Brexit
Completely agree with you and it is a very sad reflection that one of the UK major strengths is being affected so quickly.This would have been unthinkable a few years ago.
https://www.ft.com/content/3dad4ef3-59e8-437e-8f63-f629a5b7d0aa
Oh dear.This would have been unthinkable a few years ago.
https://www.ft.com/content/3dad4ef3-59e8-437e-8f63-f629a5b7d0aa
It's unlike a Tory to lie after all, right?"we should have been told the truth"
Yeah, that's why they lied. Yet, people will still vote for these people at the next election.
They'll forget about it in 3 years time and vote Tory again because Keir Starmer doesn't like roast potatoes or something.It's unlike a Tory to lie after all, right?
I'd say Brexit might open the eyes of the general public to the Tories but unfortunately they'll just keep voting for these charlatans time and time again.
Loss of jobs and tax revenue was always my biggest fear and the main reason I voted remain. It's a pity so many remainers went on about empire and spitfires and hilarious coloured passports and how stupid northerners and old people are, the vote was there to be won but we fecked it.This would have been unthinkable a few years ago.
https://www.ft.com/content/3dad4ef3-59e8-437e-8f63-f629a5b7d0aa