Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Right but UK science is genuinely amongst the best in the world. That isn't some verbal bluster, nor will it necessarily attract a German/French/Chinese Nobel laureate but its an undisputed fact.

Of course, that doesn't also mean that the Tories aren't talking nonsense or that they're wrong to link it to some kind of stupid 'points based immigration' they can only have because of Brexit. They could of course have done the same in the EU too.

Scientists don't spend their time going around interacting with the population at large, discussing politics. A scientist who decides to come to Imperial or Cambridge is employed directly by the university and will be funded for their research by the university, so I'm not sure what relevance opportunism will have in their actual day to day life. Same for a scientist at MIT or Sorbonne. I'm going to assume that there isn't much logic or reasoning in Trump's election or Xi's cult of personality or France's lurch to the right with Macron trying to outflank Le Pen on Islam or Japan's essentially one party rule for the last 60 years. India and Russia tend to be pretty high up on these lists too.

I think there's much than enough things to blame on Brexit, as well as more than enough reasons to shy away from moving to the UK, without trying to bring the logic or reasoning of the general populace into play I think. As much as its tempting post Brexit to stick the boot in in every way. :D
Another issue with this scheme that I didn't think of before but realized now: scientists mostly get the greatest prizes once they are quite advanced in their career. The Nobels are infamous for being given out decades after the fact to people in their 60s-70s-80s, of course, and it's not that bad for all major prizes; but they are general for very senior scientists that are in the final stretch. That's when these scientists are least likely to move: they are probably already at a very highly regarded institution with all kinds of privileges due to their status, will have a well-running research group, likely have well-established social lives, may have kids, and so on.

Long story short: from what I know about scientists, if you want to start a scheme to attract the best and brightest, you go for the people that are getting super high recognition in their early careers - during their postdoc or first appointment. Many won't give care a bit about societal circumstances as long as their work conditions are good. (I.e., reduced access to EU funding isn't popular with them, but Brexit or xenophobia won't deter them.)
 
All of which I totally agree with and these are all valid, real-world reasons why some researchers from the EU may now think twice about coming here.

The awful home office processes for bringing in your partner would be a factor. Funding would be a factor. Some perception that French/Germans/Americans are ruled by logic and facts while Brits are not is now whats gonna stop a French scientist coming over and certainly not a non-EU scientist.

Or we live in a bubble of negativity about how the UK is perceived around the world and are probably biased(either way) by recently picking a side over Brexit.

Ipsos did a poll recently of the G20 countries.

Britain ranking joint first with Italy as a place to live.

Second only to the USA for education.

Best European country to do business in although France and Italy were ranked better for culture UK was about 4th.

The picture of a desperate and flailing country post Brexit often portrayed here, isn't showing in this survey data.

The promising note is that perceptions of the UK has risen since Brexit which I found surprising and against the tide of thought in insular British opinion.
 
Go figure

One year on from Brexit, poll finds voters believe it has harmed UK’s interests

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-boris-johnson-lies-b1980372.html

Still some mind boggling numbers who believe (a) Vote Leave didn’t lie, (b) that Brexit was good for the country (c) we’re still on good terms with EU members and (d) wouldn’t rejoin.

Some of the numbers:

51% would vote to rejoin -vs- 49% who wouldn't
51% want a referendum to rejoin -vs- 32% who don't
27% believe Brexit was beneficial to UK's general interests -vs- 38% who didn't
14% that UK's relationship with EU has improved since Brexit -vs- 59% who believe it's worsened
51% believe access to goods and services has become more difficult due to Brexit -vs- 18% who think it's easier
21% believe there's now less red tape -vs- 45% who believe there's more
24% believe Brexit has benefitted the economy (FFS!!!) -vs- 44% who think it's weakened it
24% (presumably the same as above) think that the UK has become more united as a result of Brexit -vs- 41% who believe it's been more divisive
19% (NEARLY 1 in 5 ASKED) believe that their personal finances have improved since Brexit -vs- only 23% who say it's worsened
16% believe that their ability to work / travel abroad has become easier -vs- 28% who believe it's now harder
MORE THAN 1 in 4 (26%) believe Boris told the truth more than he lied during the campaign -vs- 57% who believe the opposite
23% believe our global influence has increased since Brexit -vs- 39% who believe it's reduced

And when asked if leaving was the right decision, it was A TIE at 46% yes, 46% no.


These are some frankly terrifying figures!!!
 
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Still some mind boggling numbers who believe (a) Vote Leave didn’t lie, (b) that Brexit was good for the country (c) we’re still on good terms with EU members and (d) wouldn’t rejoin.

Some of the numbers:

51% would vote to rejoin -vs- 49% who wouldn't
51% want a referendum to rejoin -vs- 32% who don't
27% believe Brexit was beneficial to UK's general interests -vs- 38% who didn't
14% that UK's relationship with EU has improved since Brexit -vs- 59% who believe it's worsened
51% believe access to goods and services has become more difficult due to Brexit -vs- 18% who think it's easier
21% believe there's now less red tape -vs- 45% who believe there's more
24% believe Brexit has benefitted the economy (FFS!!!) -vs- 44% who think it's weakened it
24% (presumably the same as above) think that the UK has become more united as a result of Brexit -vs- 41% who believe it's been more divisive
19% (NEARLY 1 in 5 ASKED) believe that their personal finances have improved since Brexit -vs- only 23% who say it's worsened
16% believe that their ability to work / travel abroad has become easier -vs- 28% who believe it's now harder
MORE THAN 1 in 4 (26%) believe Boris told the truth more than he lied during the campaign -vs- 57% who believe the opposite
23% believe our global influence has increased since Brexit -vs- 39% who believe it's reduced

And when asked if leaving was the right decision, it was A TIE at 46% yes, 46% no.


These are some frankly terrifying figures!!!

So basically, from this 46%, at least half of them believe that it was the right decision to leave even UK being worse off. I wonder (or not) which would be their main reason why it is the right decision
 
Still some mind boggling numbers who believe (a) Vote Leave didn’t lie, (b) that Brexit was good for the country (c) we’re still on good terms with EU members and (d) wouldn’t rejoin.

Some of the numbers:

51% would vote to rejoin -vs- 49% who wouldn't
51% want a referendum to rejoin -vs- 32% who don't
27% believe Brexit was beneficial to UK's general interests -vs- 38% who didn't
14% that UK's relationship with EU has improved since Brexit -vs- 59% who believe it's worsened
51% believe access to goods and services has become more difficult due to Brexit -vs- 18% who think it's easier
21% believe there's now less red tape -vs- 45% who believe there's more
24% believe Brexit has benefitted the economy (FFS!!!) -vs- 44% who think it's weakened it
24% (presumably the same as above) think that the UK has become more united as a result of Brexit -vs- 41% who believe it's been more divisive
19% (NEARLY 1 in 5 ASKED) believe that their personal finances have improved since Brexit -vs- only 23% who say it's worsened
16% believe that their ability to work / travel abroad has become easier -vs- 28% who believe it's now harder
MORE THAN 1 in 4 (26%) believe Boris told the truth more than he lied during the campaign -vs- 57% who believe the opposite
23% believe our global influence has increased since Brexit -vs- 39% who believe it's reduced

And when asked if leaving was the right decision, it was A TIE at 46% yes, 46% no.


These are some frankly terrifying figures!!!
People see what they want to see, don't like admitting they're wrong and will happily pin the blame on the EU, Covid or whatever anyway. If you're happy that you can get a blue passport, the crown stamp is back on the pint glass and we stuck it to the EU on pounds and ounces, then maybe you're happy. Not to judge, but presumably loads of this cohort won't be reading in depth reports on the problems blighting exporters etc...

I thought some of the additional charges people have faced on Amazon packages from the EU might have cut through a bit more though.
 
Still some mind boggling numbers who believe (a) Vote Leave didn’t lie, (b) that Brexit was good for the country (c) we’re still on good terms with EU members and (d) wouldn’t rejoin.

Some of the numbers:

51% would vote to rejoin -vs- 49% who wouldn't
51% want a referendum to rejoin -vs- 32% who don't
27% believe Brexit was beneficial to UK's general interests -vs- 38% who didn't
14% that UK's relationship with EU has improved since Brexit -vs- 59% who believe it's worsened
51% believe access to goods and services has become more difficult due to Brexit -vs- 18% who think it's easier
21% believe there's now less red tape -vs- 45% who believe there's more
24% believe Brexit has benefitted the economy (FFS!!!) -vs- 44% who think it's weakened it
24% (presumably the same as above) think that the UK has become more united as a result of Brexit -vs- 41% who believe it's been more divisive
19% (NEARLY 1 in 5 ASKED) believe that their personal finances have improved since Brexit -vs- only 23% who say it's worsened
16% believe that their ability to work / travel abroad has become easier -vs- 28% who believe it's now harder
MORE THAN 1 in 4 (26%) believe Boris told the truth more than he lied during the campaign -vs- 57% who believe the opposite
23% believe our global influence has increased since Brexit -vs- 39% who believe it's reduced

And when asked if leaving was the right decision, it was A TIE at 46% yes, 46% no.


These are some frankly terrifying figures!!!
I think the needle will shift a lot post-covid.

When people start travelling to Europe again, they're gonna get pissed off by all the new inconveniences. So far, we've been isolated for reasons other than Brexit. That means it's been easy to rationalise its effects to other contributive causes.

That being said, there will always be a massive element of 'sunk cost' to the general assessment. Many people who voted Leave will never admit to making a mistake even in light of additional evidence. So if I had to guess, I think the number will never drop below 30% until the boomer generation dies off.
 

I love when they blame it on EU red tape and not on the people who knew the red tape would be there if we left but said nothing.

The red tape exists for a reason, and has done for ages. It shouldn't be a surprise. You don't walk head first into a lamppost and blame the lamppost for breaking your nose.
 
I love when they blame it on EU red tape and not on the people who knew the red tape would be there if we left but said nothing.

The red tape exists for a reason, and has done for ages. It shouldn't be a surprise. You don't walk head first into a lamppost and blame the lamppost for breaking your nose.
But that involves admitting you were hoodwinked, never gonna happen.
 
I love when they blame it on EU red tape and not on the people who knew the red tape would be there if we left but said nothing.

The red tape exists for a reason, and has done for ages. It shouldn't be a surprise. You don't walk head first into a lamppost and blame the lamppost for breaking your nose.
Of course you do that. Every sane person would sue the town for placing the lamppost there ;):rolleyes:
 


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Im just waiting for the “Brexit cost us a lot more than we bargained for, so we are having to sell off the NHS to keep the lights on in the country”