[RedRonaldo]

He has finally drop to our level this season. I mean, eventually everyone playing for us would drop to this level of shite.

 

[Rozay]

He has finally drop to our level this season. I mean, eventually everyone playing for us would drop to this level of shite.

Yes, because the 26 year old journeyman we brought in from the mighty Sporting was so far above Manchester United level. It was Bruno who made the step up and had to rise to playing in the big leagues, not the other way around.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Yes, because the 26 year old journeyman we brought in from the mighty Sporting was so far above Manchester United level. It was Bruno who made the step up and had to rise to playing in the big leagues, not the other way around.

Our level isn't good anymore.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

This is a strange myth that pops up every time he has one of his pretty regular crap games I see
Can’t remember more than a rub if 3 or 4 games where he might have carried that mantle

If you look at the points he won us in his first 18 months then he's quite obviously our MVP. The performances haven't always been there but the stats have.

 

[El Jefe]

Have we ever had a player shit the bed as much as he does in big games? The likes of Nani, Martial, Berbatov and even Rashford and Lingard were/have been super inconsistent but they all delivered many top performances against good teams. I'd go as far as saying they rose to the occasion when these games came around. Even Pogba has given us memorable performances in big games.

Bruno outside of his first few big games has delivered terrible performances non stop. It would be one thing if he was invisible but he's actually a hindrance to the team in these games.

 

[Rozay]

Our level isn't good anymore.

And he is, literally, central to our current team. And before us, he’d proven next to nothing in the context of the wider footballing world. We took a chance on him, he certainly didn’t take a chance on us.

 

[RedRonaldo]

And he is literally, central, to our current team. And before us, he’d proven next to nothing in the context of the wider footballing world. We took a chance on him, he certainly didn’t take a chance on us.

I understand the expectation, but it becomes the other way round after he signed for us.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

He should be benched.And we should change our system, modern teams don’t play with 10’s anyway, this isn’t the 00’s, and he is no Kaka either, wouldn’t get into any other top team Europe.

 

[Yagami]

Have we ever had a player shit the bed as much as he does in big games? The likes of Nani, Martial, Berbatov and even Rashford and Lingard were/have been super inconsistent but they all delivered many top performances against good teams. I'd go as far as saying they rose to the occasion when these games came around. Even Pogba has given us memorable performances in big games.

Bruno outside of his first few big games has delivered terrible performances non stop. It would be one thing if he was invisible but he's actually a hindrance to the team in these games.

I don't even think he was good in his first few big games. For a couple of examples, the Chelsea away game and City home game where he assisted Martial in both. Yes, he got an assist in both, but, outside of that, he was his usual hindrance self. Giving the ball away cheaply constantly.

For me, he's played well in one big game so far, and that was PSG away.

Who was?

I feel like there's a lot of revisionism happening here based on his current form/level of performances. He was horrid tonight though.

I don't think we've had an outright best player. Not since de Gea in the 17/18 season.

 

[Greck]

His performance yesterday was an exhibit on why he has to simplify his game. Not only will it struggle to translate against the best teams but it's absolute suicide to continue coughing up the ball to a team that can rack up 90% possession while cruising. Letting him throw the ball away till he gets his assist won't win us anything.

People strawman the criticisms to make it seem like others are asking him to do more. No, quite the opposite, people are asking Bruno to adopt a more measured approach.

 

[TsuWave]

Our scouts had it right

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[Rozay]

Our scouts had it right

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Would have likely been the same assessment from many a scout at many a club, hence the hesitation. And I’m sure that they all had access to his stats and knew they were impressive too. Bruno was perfect for Ole’s game though, so it makes sense that he bought him. It’s just that Ole’s game would never have had us at the top of the tree.

 

[Ish]

When he doesn’t pull of a goal or assist, his performances are usually quite shocking.

We should be able to get away with it more often than not, against smaller teams who are as wasteful as us with possession but against the better sides - it’s costly because they hurt you when they’re in possession.

Hopefully a new coach can use his attributes to fit better or adapt his game a little, to be less wasteful in decision making.

I like Bruno and he seems to have that fight in him which a lot of our players lack but yeah, I do think for us to get back to the level to compete again, we will need to be much better in possession - and I’m not sure if that sort of adaptation would hurt Bruno’s game too much. I think City/Pep’s been able to do it with KdB. So maybe there’s hope - especially if the entire team functions better/works to retrieve the ball faster.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Our scouts had it right

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They knew, now we do.

 

[Litch]

I would be more impressed if he wasn’t scoring or assists but worked hard both ends of the pitch rather than leaving whoever he’s playing with in midfield, in the shite. Put him and Pogs in midfield and I’m not surprised it retired Matic early.

 

[Adnan]

If his performance against City was replicated by a youngster, then that youngster would be deemed not ready for the first team. He was absolutely crap and I forgot he was even on the pitch.

 

[Marwood]

Our scouts had it right

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No they didn't.

Where would we be without getting Bruno that January? What would the last 18 month had looked like.

Answer is way, way, worse.

 

[Coops73]

In general I like Bruno, he works harder than most out there but he was pretty awful against City and his constant bitching and moaning is starting to grate on me.

He has stop trying worldy passes every five minutes, I know he’s trying to single handedly win games, especially when it’s going pear shaped and it’s admirable but sometimes you just need to keep it simple.

 

[TsuWave]

No they didn't.

Where would we be without getting Bruno that January? What would the last 18 month had looked like.

Answer is way, way, worse.

Yes, they did. The highlighted issues are sticking out now.

You’re assuming we wouldn’t get anyone else in. Someone that can actually make sensible decisions on the ball and not just give the ball away.

Myth.

 

[Rozay]

No they didn't.

Where would we be without getting Bruno that January? What would the last 18 month had looked like.

Answer is way, way, worse.

If everything else stayed the same, we’d have been undoubtedly worse. I don’t think that is what anyone is saying should have happened though is it?

 

[DWelbz19]

This stat has always confused me. Watching them it's not obvious that KDB's general play is so much classier and more assured. Maybe it's because he puts in a lot of crosses or something as there's no way they're equals at ball retention. Or as footballers.

It's probably a combination of that, and the areas where they lose the ball.

 

[MUFC OK]

Needs a dressing down in my opinion. Really could benefit from playing it simple, especially when things aren't going our/his way. The opportunities will present themselves to try a killer pass but he needs to be less predictable and pick his moments and almost earn his right to play each game.

 

[el3mel]

We'll never win any major title, or maybe even a small one, with Bruno as our main key player.

Here I said it, I said what people are afraid to say.

 

[BlahRules]

Lets be honest players like McTominay are a bunch of cowards on the pitch. If Bruno doesn't go for the killer pass then none of them would and we would never get any chances to score.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

To play with a player like Bruno Fernandes at the top end of the table, you have to ensure the holding midfielder(s) are capable of:

- defending the area between the CBs and Bruno
- pass the ball between the lines
- retain possession under pressure
- able to recover the ball in transition and keep possession.

Bruno has been a bag of balls for large chunks of this season, but I have sympathy for him and the centre backs given how often our 2 headless chickens in midfield fail to regularly do any of the above.

De Bruyne is the benchmark and an infinitely better footballer than Bruno and most other attack minded midfielders out there - however Fernandinho and Rodri have been there to keep things ticking over and clear the mess over the years. Top quality and consistent holding midfielders.

To go from Keane to Carrick is fine. To go from Carrick to shoehorning:
- Herrera
- Fellaini
- Schneiderlin
- McTominay
- Pogba
- Fred

It's been a painful decline, but as of today our midfield is possibly the most bypassable in the Premier League. You cannot give Bruno the licence to play riskball with McFred. We (the fans) knew this was coming.

 

[Marwood]

Yes, they did. The highlighted issues are sticking out now.

You’re assuming we wouldn’t get anyone else in. Someone that can actually make sensible decisions on the ball and not just give the ball away.

Myth.

If everything else stayed the same, we’d have been undoubtedly worse. I don’t think that is what anyone is saying should have happened though is it?

Who did Bruno stop us getting in? We've signed numerous big name players since.

You guys are making a massive assumption That if we didn't get Bruno we'd have bought a better alternative.

You've seen our transfer dealings over the last few years right?

By our standards Bruno has been a really good signing.

 

[Rozay]

Who did Bruno stop us getting in? We've signed numerous big name players since.

You guys are making a massive assumption That if we didn't get Bruno we'd have bought a better alternative.

You've seen our transfer dealings over the last few years right?

By our standards Bruno has been a really good signing.

I couldn’t care less about the name. Bruno himself wasn’t a particularly ‘big name’ signing IMO.

It’s just that you asked where we would be if we did not sign Bruno 2 years ago. I’d like to think we could have gone a different way in terms of how we developed the team. It is not as simple as just subtracting Bruno from what we have now. I think we could have gone in a different direction and my personal preference would have been to sign a different profile of player.

I’d have still taken that Peaky Blinder ahead of him for one, despite his slow start at City. Bruno being a good signing ‘by our standards’ isn’t the point. Our standards are not good enough to win titles. And in a title winning team, I don’t think he would be as good a signing. And that is what we want to become.

I said with Bruno from early that I felt he was the player we needed at the time because of where we were, but I was equally convinced that he would not be the player we need for the last step, and with us only having been able to improve to a certain point, I don’t think that has been disproven.

 

[Rozay]

We'll never win any major title, or maybe even a small one, with Bruno as our main key player.

Here I said it, I said what people are afraid to say.

I’ve been saying this for years. This bus stops at 2nd on a very good year. But I don’t think we’ll have the required control or authority to be the league’s best team with the way we play with Bruno. And of course, there are other issues within the team too, none of these midfielders are up to it for a start.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

We'll never win any major title, or maybe even a small one, with Bruno as our main key player.

Here I said it, I said what people are afraid to say.

I was just thinking today whether there have even any teams winning elite league titles who have such a 'loose' maverick attacking player? To me it seems that Bruno needs a team to be built around to suit him and compensate for his flaws and and needs also improve his own general play. The cross field pass he under hit yesterday - you don't see top midfielders do that and he does it regularly.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Needs a dressing down in my opinion. Really could benefit from playing it simple, especially when things aren't going our/his way. The opportunities will present themselves to try a killer pass but he needs to be less predictable and pick his moments and almost earn his right to play each game.

Both him and Rashford need to learn this. One keeps messing up his I'm a risk taker passes and the other loves running into defenders.

 

[Marwood]

I couldn’t care less about the name. Bruno himself wasn’t a particularly ‘big name’ signing IMO.

It’s just that you asked where we would be if we did not sign Bruno 2 years ago. I’d like to think we could have gone a different way in terms of how we developed the team. It is not as simple as just subtracting Bruno from what we have now. I think we could have gone in a different direction and my personal preference would have been to sign a different profile of player.

I’d have still taken that Peaky Blinder ahead of him for one, despite his slow start at City. Bruno being a good signing ‘by our standards’ isn’t the point. Our standards are not good enough to win titles. And in a title winning team, I don’t think he would be as good a signing. And that is what we want to become.

I said with Bruno from early that I felt he was the player we needed at the time because of where we were, but I was equally convinced that he would not be the player we need for the last step, and with us only having been able to improve to a certain point, I don’t think that has been disproven.

It's all so hypothetical.

"If we hadn't signed Bruno we'd have signed player x who would have been better...."

Bruno hasn’t stopped us buying anyone. Plenty has been spent since then.

We even signed another attacking midfielder after Bruno in DvB to test your theory. That bombed.

At the time Bruno was a huge upgrade on what we had, became our best player, central to the good football we produced for periods. Doesn't mean he has to stay in the team unchallenged now but you can’t ask for much more from a signing.

I'm really glad the scouts were ignored. Presumably these are the same scouts who recommended DvB?

 

[bond19821982]

We'll never win any major title, or maybe even a small one, with Bruno as our main key player.

Here I said it, I said what people are afraid to say.

He just need a manager to coach him to keep it simple. He was good in majority of matches under Ralph but last 2 matches has been considerably worse.

 

[bond19821982]

No they didn't.

Where would we be without getting Bruno that January? What would the last 18 month had looked like.

Answer is way, way, worse.

Better? Ole would have been sacked that summer and we could have gotten someone competent?

Bruno actually saved Ole his job for about 18 months.

 

[Rozay]

It's all so hypothetical.

"If we hadn't signed Bruno we'd have signed player x who would have been better...."

Bruno hasn’t stopped us buying anyone. Plenty has been spent since then.

We even signed another attacking midfielder after Bruno in DvB to test your theory. That bombed.

At the time Bruno was a huge upgrade on what we had, became our best player, central to the good football we produced for periods. Doesn't mean he has to stay in the team unchallenged now but you can’t ask for much more from a signing.

I'm really glad the scouts were ignored. Presumably these are the same scouts who recommended DvB?

It’s more about the direction the team has gone down by installing Bruno as it’s central figure. That is the problem, for me. Of course he ‘hasn’t stopped us signing other players’, but so long as those other players have not been signed to replace him - then what difference does it make to the problems Bruno’s presence in the team causes (in my own opinion)?

Bruno being our ‘best player’ isn’t the point either. Again, it is about the direction of the team. He can be the best player at a number of teams in the league, but none that are good enough to win it. Which is the point. Because a Bruno centrepiece team only goes so far, and is found out at the very top level, because the game that seems to fit him is not good enough to win major trophies, and the game that is good enough to win major trophies does not fit him.

So you can be happy and call him a success for being the best player in a team that will never be good enough to win unless it goes in a different direction, which is a direction that they cannot go in while Bruno remains the ‘best player’. As good as he is, he cannot win trophies alone for us. Football is still a team game. The team bar has been raised here for a while, and organisational structure and quality of possession are crucial factors. If Pep and Klopp never arriver, perhaps Bruno could lead us to the title - but definitely not at the bar that has been set, because he doesn’t have the qualities for it. He neither supports good structure or good possession, and as a result, over 38 games, his team will always fall short regardless of what his individual statistics may look like.

As much as Donny has bombed, as you rightly put it, a top team that can have allows Van de Beek to show his best will likely be better than one that allows Bruno to show his.

 

[Marwood]

Better? Ole would have been sacked that summer and we could have gotten someone competent?

Bruno actually saved Ole his job for about 18 months.

Wait so we're now blaming Bruno for playing well and getting his manager results?

 

[The Oracle]

We'll never win any major title, or maybe even a small one, with Bruno as our main key player.

Here I said it, I said what people are afraid to say.

I am in agreement with you.

Bruno gives away the ball to the opposition on a consistent basis, and it is absolutely draining on the team.
Even McTominay alluded to it in his post match interview, when he said, "We can't continue giving the ball away like that in the second half".

It is so frustrating how many times Bruno hands over possession to the opposition.

 

[bond19821982]

Wait so we're now blaming Bruno for playing well and getting his manager results?

Read again mate, it was an answer to your question.

 

[Marwood]

Read again mate, it was an answer to your question.

That's so back to front though.

We'd have been better without Bruno because we'd have continued being absolutely terrible and therefore sacked Ole earlier?

Is that the jist?

 

[TsuWave]

Who did Bruno stop us getting in? We've signed numerous big name players since.

You guys are making a massive assumption That if we didn't get Bruno we'd have bought a better alternative.

You've seen our transfer dealings over the last few years right?

By our standards Bruno has been a really good signing.

isn’t just as big an assumption that we wouldn’t get anyone else in?

I have seen our transfer dealings over the last few years.

No, I don’t think Bruno has been a really good signing.

We even signed another attacking midfielder after Bruno in DvB to test your theory. That bombed.

At the time Bruno was a huge upgrade on what we had, became our best player, central to the good football we produced for periods. Doesn't mean he has to stay in the team unchallenged now but you can’t ask for much more from a signing.

I'm really glad the scouts were ignored. Presumably these are the same scouts who recommended DvB?

That doesn’t test any theory because Bruno is now included as a variable and the team took this weird unbalanced direction with him in it. A midfielder that’s not particularly great at carrying the ball, gives it away cheaply, and constantly makes bad decisions. Not to say VdB was or would ever have been the answer, but to point at players that have failed after Bruno being signed and extrapolating the same would have happened if Bruno hadn’t been signed is flawed. Especially cause Bruno getting minutes, even when being incredibly awful, has directly impacted said player’s opportunities

Bruno being our best player is a myth.

The scouts being wrong before or after isn’t mutually exclusive with them being right about Bruno. They were right about Bruno. The highlighted issues on that report are salient to us every match day now.

even a bum like Mctominay knows it:

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Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Marwood]

It’s more about the direction the team has gone down by installing Bruno as it’s central figure. That is the problem, for me. Of course he ‘hasn’t stopped us signing other players’, but so long as those other players have not been signed to replace him - then what difference does it make to the problems Bruno’s presence in the team causes (in my own opinion)?

Bruno being our ‘best player’ isn’t the point either. Again, it is about the direction of the team. He can be the best player at a number of teams in the league, but none that are good enough to win it. Which is the point. Because a Bruno centrepiece team only goes so far, and is found out at the very top level, because the game that seems to fit him is not good enough to win major trophies, and the game that is good enough to win major trophies does not fit him.

So you can be happy and call him a success for being the best player in a team that will never be good enough to win unless it goes in a different direction, which is a direction that they cannot go in while Bruno remains the ‘best player’. As good as he is, he cannot win trophies alone for us. Football is still a team game. The team bar has been raised here for a while, and organisational structure and quality of possession are crucial factors. If Pep and Klopp never arriver, perhaps Bruno could lead us to the title - but definitely not at the bar that has been set, because he doesn’t have the qualities for it. He neither supports good structure or good possession, and as a result, over 38 games, his team will always fall short regardless of what his individual statistics may look like.

As much as Donny has bombed, as you rightly put it, a top team that can have allows Van de Beek to show his best will likely be better than one that allows Bruno to show his.

But you did say signing Bruno has stopped us going a different way when clearly it hasn't.

We've got DvB and Pogba in the squad. If the club and managers want to try something different they can. We've also spent plenty of money elsewhere since he arrived.

Bruno isn't stopping anything.

It's this habit of placing a player at the centre of problems. As if the team is built around Bruno. People do the same in the Ronaldo thread.

No one player dictates the teams approach. We're playing the same disjointed stuff now that we did before Bruno arrived.

You get a whole team performing and you can definitely have Bruno as part of that and be successful.