Bye bye top 4

[RedSRM]

Yep, shit weekend but we can't say it hasn't been coming. Arsenal were always nailed on for top 4 (for me anyway) and Liverpool have been building momentum for a while and are now playing in a similar way to last season. It was naive of people if they expected Liverpool to stay shit for the whole season, they've got too many decent players for that. Pretty sure I've seen people around here taking the piss out of the likes of Coutinho in the past, but can you imagine any of our 'stars' scoring a goal like that at the moment? Their important players are coming up with the goods when it matters unlike our bunch. It doesn't help that LVG is doing all he can to mess around with the formation/system which leaves them not knowing if they are coming or going.
We had plenty of time earlier in the season to consolidate our place in the top 4, but we fecked up and dropped too many silly points. We still have a chance of course, but I just can't see us doing it because other sides have their act together when we still look like we don't know which formation to play, which players to start with and what our style is.
Could end up being a bigger disaster than last season if we end up in a Europa place.

 

[Vooon]

I think 3-4 are pretty open for grabs at the moment, and it's going to be a thriller until the last round.

 

[Raw]

Yep, shit weekend but we can't say it hasn't been coming. Arsenal were always nailed on for top 4 (for me anyway) and Liverpool have been building momentum for a while and are now playing in a similar way to last season. It was naive of people if they expected Liverpool to stay shit for the whole season, they've got too many decent players for that. Pretty sure I've seen people around here taking the piss out of the likes of Coutinho in the past, but can you imagine any of our 'stars' scoring a goal like that at the moment? Their important players are coming up with the goods when it matters unlike our bunch. It doesn't help that LVG is doing all he can to mess around with the formation/system which leaves them not knowing if they are coming or going.
We had plenty of time earlier in the season to consolidate our place in the top 4, but we fecked up and dropped too many silly points. We still have a chance of course, but I just can't see us doing it because other sides have their act together when we still look like we don't know which formation to play, which players to start with and what our style is.
Could end up being a bigger disaster than last season if we end up in a Europa place.

Coutinho's great. Rodgers may have made some terrible signings he's also brought in some fantastic signings like Coutinho, Sturridge and Can. All for a very cheap price too.

 

[CapeTownRed]

I think 3-4 are pretty open for grabs at the moment, and it's going to be a thriller until the last round.

Yeah, I think when it comes to crunch time, our combination of players and manager will come up good for top 4. Lots of dicking about at the moment with formations and personnel, but I'm still not worried for some reason. The football's been quite shit though, which isn't ideal when you're a fan...

 

[Oneunited26]

Yeah, I think when it comes to crunch time, our combination of players and manager will come up good for top 4. Lots of dicking about at the moment with formations and personnel, but I'm still not worried for some reason. The football's been quite shit though, which isn't ideal when you're a fan...

On the current away form, I don't see us making the top 4, we will be lucky making a top 5

 

[LR7]

I still think we will get top 4. The big games coming up will bring the best out of us again. LvG seems to accept that we won't necessarily dominate the big teams with possession so seems to set us up differently and it suits us better I think. My only slight concern is that when we weren't playing so well before we were ruthless and clinical in front of goal, we seem to be a bit more wateful of late. Hopefully we rediscover that killer instinct.

 

[Insanity]

When did we play well in the big games?

(1) Chelsea - D - Last minute goal to salvage a draw at home.
(2) City - L - Battered for the best part of 60 minutes. Should have a man sent off and a penalty against us in the first half.
(3) Arsenal - W - Horrible performance. Day light robbery.
(4) S'ton - W - Horrible performance. Day light robbery. Saved by a superhuman effort from VP.
(5) Liverpool - W - Probably our better performances and most goals scored against a big opponent in 2 years. Still gave Liverpool enough chances in the first half only to be saved by another one of De Gea's worldie.
(6) S'ton - L - At home.

I haven't seen a convincing performance yet to be confident that we will get anything in these big games.

 

[Gannicus]

Have you seen our fixtures going into March-April?

I have. We tend to play to the level of our opponents. I can see us getting 4 points out if Chelsea-City-Arsenal. But we need to do the business elsewhere.

 

[Oneunited26]

I have. We tend to play to the level of our opponents. I can see us getting 4 points out if Chelsea-City-Arsenal. But we need to do the business elsewhere.

Results wise we got some good results, performance levels have been just has bad as the midtable teams. Has anyone ever thought we were convincing at arsenal? Many go on about bad luck against swansea, we could have easily lost to arsenal

 

[kouroux]

When did we play well in the big games?

(1) Chelsea - D - Last minute goal to salvage a draw at home.
(2) City - L - Battered for the best part of 60 minutes. Should have a man sent off and a penalty against us in the first half.
(3) Arsenal - W - Horrible performance. Day light robbery.
(4) S'ton - W - Horrible performance. Day light robbery. Saved by a superhuman effort from VP.
(5) Liverpool - W - Probably our better performances and most goals scored against a big opponent in 2 years. Still gave Liverpool enough chances in the first half only to be saved by another one of De Gea's worldie.
(6) S'ton - L - At home.

I haven't seen a convincing performance yet to be confident that we will get anything in these big games.

The performances haven't been impressive but the results in these games are better than last season I think.

 

[RedSRM]

I have. We tend to play to the level of our opponents. I can see us getting 4 points out if Chelsea-City-Arsenal. But we need to do the business elsewhere.

My worry is how unsettled our defence is still. I know we have a good record overall but we haven't had a settled setup at the back all season. We could get absolutely mugged if one of the big teams really turns it on.

 

[Insanity]

The performances haven't been impressive but the results in these games are better than last season I think.

Of course they were, but they are balanced out by the bad results in the game where we were good last season.

The performances haven't improved and even the most delusional fan would say that we got extremely lucky in some of those fixtures. Can we be confident that we'll get lucky again? Because please tell me we'll, as I would love some hope right now.

 

[kouroux]

Of course they were, but they are balanced out by the bad results in the game where we were good last season.

The performances haven't improved and even the most delusional fan would say that we got extremely lucky in some of those fixtures. Can we be confident that we'll get lucky again? Because please tell me we'll, as I would love some hope right now.

You ain't gonna get any hope from me sadly. I don't hope for a decent performance anymore because that would be a waste of hope energy.

 

[Insanity]

You ain't gonna get any hope from me sadly. I don't hope for a decent performance anymore because that would be a waste of hope energy.

It's depressing times, man. I never imagined that it would get this bad so soon after Fergie's retirement, always thought that we'd take time to fall off from grace. Woodward, Moyes and VG have hastened the process beyond belief. It's like we are run by a bunch if imbeciles.

 

[kouroux]

It's depressing times, man. I never imagined that it would get this bad so soon after Fergie's retirement, always thought that we'd take time to fall off from grace. Woodward, Moyes and VG have hastened the process beyond belief. It's like we are run by a bunch if imbeciles.

When you think about it, last season just represented THE nightmare scenario in every footballing aspect after SAF's retirement.

 

[royboy16]

Pretty confident Southampton are done for now in terms of top four, but Liverpool and Arsenal will likely beat us to it, considering we still have to go to Anfield.

I think so too.
Liverpool and Arsenal are the main threat now.
The European games cant come soon enough for those two teams but its annoying we are relying on that to help our CL qualification.

 

[Empire]

@NessunDorma

You are assuming a team fighting to avoid relegation is less dangerous opposition than a mid-table side that has nothing to play for. We are getting to the point where the more difficult games will likely be against sides that are playing for something important such as continental qualification or avoiding avoid relegation therefore I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[roseguy64]

@NessunDorma

You are assuming a team fighting to avoid relegation is less dangerous opposition than a mid-table side that has nothing to play for. We are getting to the point where the more difficult games will likely be against sides that are playing for something important such as continental qualification or avoiding avoid relegation therefore I wouldn't read too much into it.

Good point. Playing mid-table teams in no danger of relegation will be easier matches than the ones against those down at the bottom.

 

[Sarni]

We just lost to a Swansea side that has very little to play for currently, have been poor for a while and were actually poor yesterday as well. I wouldn't say any of our away games are going to be a walk between now and the end of season.

On paper we should be able to beat Sunderland (Burnley gave us a hard game at Old Trafford and should have probably won), Villa and West Brom at home should be alright and we ought to be able to beat Hull and Palace away from home normally but away from home is the tough part there. There's also Newcastle away which should normally be a breeze but this season could end up 2-0 to Newcastle the way we're playing. If we could win all these games then we might have a shot but Swansea defeat is a big hinderance to our top 4 challenge, especially now that Liverpool have got themselves 2 points within us.

Next two games are very important but in a different way than pre-Swansea. Drop any points against Sunderland and Newcastle and we'll be as good as done IMO as I don't expect us to match Liverpool or Arsenal over the last 10 games.

We'll probably make Europa League but that'll be it. With the way Liverpool have been playing I honestly can't see us finishing above them and Arsenal are a far better and more organized team than we're now.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

It's not over till the fat lady sings. The team has to treat every game like a cup final(Literally) to get over the line now. The good news is, top4 is still in our own hands thanks to our Scouse friends, however they are the very team trying to take £70million of CL money away from us

All depends on how much the club, manager and players want this now, we absolutely have to go to Anfield and get 3 points.

 

[Sarni]

It's not over till the fat lady sings. The team has to treat every game like a cup final(Literally) to get over the line now. The good news is, top4 is still in our own hands thanks to our Scouse friends, however they are the very team trying to take £70million of CL money away from us

All depends on how much the club, manager and players want this now, we absolutely have to go to Anfield and get 3 points.

Drawing there would be a miracle (and enough to put us in a decent position). There's no chance we will go there and get a win.

 

[roseguy64]

Drawing there would be a miracle (and enough to put us in a decent position). There's no chance we will go there and get a win.

Erm?

 

[NessunDorma]

Good point. Playing mid-table teams in no danger of relegation will be easier matches than the ones against those down at the bottom.

I see the point, and there might be something to it.

But some of those relegation threatened teams are easy to beat now, and they'll be easy to beat at the end of the season as well. It's not a cast iron rule that teams scrapping for their lives all of a sudden become formidable opponents, where once they were relative pushovers. Can't just turn it on and off like that.

For instance, Fulham only won two of their last 12 games in 2013/14. Norwich only won two of their last 12 as well. Cardiff only won one of their last 12.

These are the teams that got relegated, and they were all in the bottom 5 with 26 games of the season gone.

Generally, I do still think you'd rather be playing the Leicesters, QPRs and Burnleys than the West Hams, Stokes and Newcastles, let alone the Chelseas, Arsenals and Liverpools.

 

[Maldini's Hair]

My worry about top 4 is that I feel we need maybe 9 points out of 12 against City (H), Arsenal (H), Liverpool (A) & Chelsea (A). I think we might get 3 points out of that the way we're playing (Arsenal (H)) and that is no certainty at all. We could conceivably get nothing from those games and if that's the case it's pretty much game over.

 

[Bojan11]

My worry about top 4 is that I feel we need maybe 9 points out of 12 against City (H), Arsenal (H), Liverpool (A) & Chelsea (A). I think we might get 3 points out of that the way we're playing (Arsenal (H)) and that is no certainty at all. We could conceivably get nothing from those games and if that's the case it's pretty much game over.

I can see us beating Arsenal.

But I don't trust our defence against Aguero or Silva even at home.

 

[Sarni]

Erm?

We've not won at Anfield in ages, we used to go there at full strength and get beaten. We played 10-man Liverpool a while ago and were extremely fortunate to win. What makes you think that in our current shape we could go there and beat Liverpool side that has been considerably better than us?

 

[Sarni]

I can see us beating Arsenal.

But I don't trust our defence against Aguero or Silva even at home.

Yeah, if it comes to the final day and we're 2 points within Arsenal I'd be pretty confident of finishing above them. They tend to bottle things up even more than we do these days.

 

[Maldini's Hair]

I can see us beating Arsenal.

But I don't trust our defence against Aguero or Silva even at home.

Same. Unfortunately City are bang in form at the moment as are the scouse. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

[Adebesi]

We've got a chance against anyone, home or away. Especially Liverpool. Fair enough they're in better form than us, may be a better team than us, maybe our record there is pretty bad. But to say there is no chance is ridiculously defeatist.

 

[Maldini's Hair]

We've got a chance against anyone, home or away. Especially Liverpool. Fair enough they're in better form than us, may be a better team than us, maybe our record there is pretty bad. But to say there is no chance is ridiculously defeatist.

I don't think anyone believes there is absolutely no chance. It's just not particularity believable that we will all of a sudden start playing like an actual functioning team, playing at a ground we notoriously struggle at, against a team currently playing very well. It'll be very, very tough.

 

[Adebesi]

Im not just being literal minded. I can accept they are favourites, just about. But I cant go into any game thinking we have no chance, or even "no chance" in a figurative sense. Maybe City and Chelsea away I might be pretty pessimistic. But Liverpool away? I refuse to accept our chance of winning that is as negligible as is being implied. I understand we are having a tough time of it in this post-Fergie era but Im not willing to submit to this mentality yet. Maybe Im just in denial. Still, Id rather that than have such a massive inferiority complex against Liverpool of all teams.

 

[IwatUwat]

I think people other teams fans and us and other managers even still believe we are favourites for top 4 then Arse.

So we as fans should definitely take this view. The team just needs a few good games, and we'll get a roll going.

Being positive cos the style of football has to change eventually, it can't carry on. We need to find our best 11, even if we dont all agree, and then stick with it, give them a run. Let them settle currently their is no fluidity and it comes from the fact its a different forward line and midfield every game.

I think we'd make top 4 if this was the team til the end of the season:

------------De Gea--

--Valencia--Smalling--Rojo--Shaw

---------Carrick----Blind
---------------Herrera

--Di Maria----Rooney-----Mata


Width provided by full backs, one of Carrick Blind can drop in if they get caught out. Di Maria, Rooney, Mata can all switch a bit if required. Also provide width. Subs to come on and make impact as required. Herrera could be argued to drop in alongside Carrick or Blind and put Mata or Di Maria at the top of the 3 with Januzaj, Wilson etc further forward.

But think the above would give us a top 4.

 

[NK86]

Same. Unfortunately City are bang in form at the moment as are the scouse. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

They were mauled yesterday by Southampton. Should have lost convincingly but for awful refereeing.

 

[NK86]

We've not won at Anfield in ages, we used to go there at full strength and get beaten. We played 10-man Liverpool a while ago and were extremely fortunate to win. What makes you think that in our current shape we could go there and beat Liverpool side that has been considerably better than us?

Hope we get JOS back!

 

[NK86]

I have. We tend to play to the level of our opponents. I can see us getting 4 points out if Chelsea-City-Arsenal. But we need to do the business elsewhere.

We have been getting outplayed by League 2 sides. That is the only thing we have done in terms of playing to the "level" of our opponents. I don't see us matching City/Chelsea in terms of style. We might just get a point from those two games but I am sure as heck not pinning my hopes of a top 4 by winning against them. We need to get the job done against the other sides we are going to be facing. That is what will be the turning point for us. Still cannot believe we have let a lead of 13 points dwindle down to just 2 in just a couple of a months.

 

[bishblaize]

They were mauled yesterday by Southampton. Should have lost convincingly but for awful refereeing.

This is a good point actually. Obviously it was disappointing for us that they won, and I don't see them dropping loads of points from here on. But they didnt play well yesterday. Their form has plainly been better than ours of late, but they're still patchy. Good games vs Spurs & West Ham mixed in with very stodgy performances against Southampton, Everton & Besiktas.

 

[Maldini's Hair]

They were mauled yesterday by Southampton. Should have lost convincingly but for awful refereeing.

But they didn't. 5 Wins and 1 Draw from the last 6 says to me that they have hit a bit of form.

 

[Kayo]

Shocking results against Swansea (twice), Sunderland, Burnley, Leicester, West Brom, Southampton etc mean we now have to go to the better teams and win.

In our hands I guess

 

[Shark]

The tables have horribly turned regarding ourselves and Liverpool. They started badly and we were only a bit better but picked up the points. Now they've upped their game and are winning and we're regressing. (If that's even possible) with few signs of things improving. I'm aware that the game vs Swansea did have positives.

 

[Cassidy]

But they didn't. 5 Wins and 1 Draw from the last 6 says to me that they have hit a bit of form.

Whilst true, the wheels fall off if you don't play well. As we have seen with ourselves, even if your getting results, if you don't play well the results will start to go against you. They're definetaly in better form than us, but I don't think they are nailed on for top 4 by anymeans.