Its quite funny when Casemiro does that no one says something. If McT done it it would be the only video that gets put out saying.
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I havent ignored your point about using the word "drastic" to qualify your point, i just disagree. Personally think Modric developed Drastically.
I understand your point, i just disagree, personally think he went from being a world class midfielder to being one of the best to ever play the position, would call that drastic in my opinion.
Game of opinions, appreciate the tussle
Henderson was a national meme, when he was deputy captain to Gerrard. Liverpool fans were questioning what purpose he served. The exact same questions were asked regarding his role in the team as Mctominay.
https://www.liverpoolway.co.uk/index.php?/forums/topic/93816-jordan-henderson-what-are-you/&
He was decent in Brendan Rodgers final season, but he wasn't never integral to the team until Klopp took over and he was around the same age as Mctominay and was Liverpool's linchpin in driving the team forward.
As for Milner he was considered washed by the time he joined Liverpool at 29 years of age for free, and wasn't breaking any records at City thats why City let his contract run down.
You still haven't haven't provided a value argument as for why Mctominay can't improve his mentality or technique after 25 years of age.
Then just say that. Don't act as if I told you that he didn't improve or that what I said wasn't clear.
I did say that?... " he might have been one of the best midfielders in the PL when he was at Spurs, but i think its incredibly disingenuous to suggest he didnt drastically develop between when he arrived to when he won the Balon D'or. "
have a good one.
Agree that video is somewhat misleading, Casemiro gave the ball away a fair few times. One lead to a direct Leicester attack (I think it was the one where Justin comically smashed it into row Z but can't quite remember).
However, overall his obvious class shone through and he's clearly an unbelievable upgrade - one that I still can't believe, as he's objectively world class.
Henderson struggled at age 22 when he moved to Liverpool but improved every seasons after that and was a key player in 2013-2014. And the argument is that players rarely improve drastically in thier late 20s, especially when they weren't in an ascending curve way before that. The closest example I have of it would be Matuidi and it's an exception not the rule.
Here is the thing, your first post about improving incrementally is one that I agreed with. Modric improved incrementally, he didn't improve drastically from age 26 to age 36, he improved evenly from age 18 to age 36. At age 26 he was a top player and one of the best around and he kep refining his game year after year, there was no drastic or sudden change. The one thing that is exceptional with him though is that he has maintained his level for such a long time.
McTominay on the other hand, isn't someone that is on an ascending curve, he plays the same way he did 3 years ago, he has the same flaws and qualities. It's unlikely that we see a drastic change now that he is in his mid twenties. And if we take Henderson or Milner as examples both of these players were improving in their early 20s, they didn't suddenly become good in their mid 20s.
Henderson was bang average for years, he wasn’t even an obvious starter during the 13-14 season, the likes of Joe Allan and old Gerrard were starting ahead of him, if you told me then that Henderson would captain Liverpool to a CL and a PL title I would’ve asked what kind of herb from Jamaica you been smoking.
I don't know just love himSo he does nothing right
In 13-14, Henderson played +3000 minutes in the PL. He started 35 games and was suspended for two games.
Just absolutely demented
The fella who was saying he's no good at passing
He looked like was a little bit rusty physically, looked a little clumsy at times.
What is obvious though is that he's a magnificent player. Positional play is brilliant and his passing is mostly simple but effective. What also impressed me was how often he popped up and showed himself for the inside pass once the ball had gone out wide, which gave the player that was isolated on the wing a simple pass inside which could then serve as a springboard for a switch or a counter-attack. It's obvious to see how we will improve as a team once he's up to speed and replaces McTominay. As good as McTominay's performance was yesterday, he doesn't have anywhere near the consistency in-game or between games to be close to Casemiro's level overall. Casemiro also looks like a leader on the pitch and has a great, calming influence on those around him.
What is obvious though is that he's a magnificent player. Positional play is brilliant and his passing is mostly simple but effective. What also impressed me was how often he popped up and showed himself for the inside pass once the ball had gone out wide, which gave the player that was isolated on the wing a simple pass inside which could then serve as a springboard for a switch or a counter-attack. It's obvious to see how we will improve as a team once he's up to speed and replaces McTominay. As good as McTominay's performance was yesterday, he doesn't have anywhere near the consistency in-game or between games to be close to Casemiro's level overall. Casemiro also looks like a leader on the pitch and has a great, calming influence on those around him.
He was not a key player 2013-14, it was 2015 when he started to show his worth. Regardless no one absolutely one could foresee him he leading the charge for Liverpools title wins and cl's wins.
I never even said Mctominay would ''drastically improve'' I said he could be mentored into becoming a better player with Casimero's guidance. And mctominay has already shown improvements to his game in the last 3 games we have won under a coach who specialists in developing players.
He has never been properly coached under a manager who develops players. He broke through under Mourinho who used him to prove a pointto the board that they made mistake not backing him to sign a defender by putting him in defence when Mourinho reached the end of his tether and was begging to get himself the sack to bag the compensation.
Ole was never qualified to coach and develop any players in his kick and rush counterattacking football. He used Mctmoney solely to rely on his physicality and nothing more. So I don't think it's fair to write off Mctiminay improving beyond 25 when he's never played in a defined system and never been coached properly.
There are many players who were average at his age and started to ''drastically'' improve past 25. Namely Klose, Toni, Vardy, Drogba, Victor Moses , Tadic, Haller, and Mo Salah.
I don't even rate mctominay that highly myself, but this idea that he can't improve his game is frankly nonsense
And I didn't suggest that he couldn't improve his game, I made a point made to temper expectations which is why a specified drastically because people seem to think that he is a youngster and that there is a lot of untapped potential, there isn't. He hasn't improved during that last 3 games and our midfield has generally been dominated by the opposition, he is doing what he has done during good times in the past which is to not be an hindrance.
The way people talk about McTominay is a bit like they did about Lingard or Walcott.
I disagree with your take on Casemiro, at least in what he will bring to the side (or the benefits of it). But you're generally more often right than you are wrong, and you shouldn't take the criticism to heart. The average football poster has very little insight, just shrug it off call them a cnut back and crack on.
I doubt he will start before Leeds at home, 18 Sep or maybe even Everton game two game weeks later. Doubt we’d start him against Arsenal in a tough game, will probably trust McTominay who’s been in the team and is integrated. Well Palace next week maybe, but most likely Leeds which will be an easier game (in theory) and at home.
Closet scouse troll.
It is this that I’m finding so exciting about our transfer business. Our team will have literally changed before our eyes. That’s even before Casemiro and Antony have started. Judging by the characters he’s brought in already I’ve no doubt the reason ETH was willing to spend ££££’s on those two. He knows exactly what he’s going to be getting.
Casemiro will be incredible in front of Varane and Martinez, 3 winners at the base of our new spine. Could be brilliant.
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Exactly right. He came on as sub and is still adjusting to being here. Looked a bit rusty as you say, like a first game back from a spell out. Couple of passes went astray, not ideal.
However, he looks absolutely top class to me. He knows where to go and goes there. When he gets there he affects the game in a positive way. He made several sweet first time passes - directly forwards. He plays with his head up. He looks hard as nails as well. When he settles in he will be our most important player.
Think he starts today.
with mctominay I reckon.
Could be. But Eriksen is more his style, surely.
Thought this was a good image. Very strong under press, and rarely miscontrols while dribbling, so I hope we see him as part of a McTom/Cas pivot today.
Why so keen to get McTom in there? Cas-Eriksen is the way, surely.
Thought this was a good image. Very strong under press, and rarely miscontrols while dribbling, so I hope we see him as part of a McTom/Cas pivot today.
I know it's early and he's class, but he's made two amateurish mistakes last game and now today.
He seems way too relaxed
He seems way too relaxed
that was a bit dodgy. makes it understandable he’s not in the lineup yet, he clearly needs to get up to speed with the pace of the play in the PL.
Just looks off the pace by a yard or two. Hopefully he'll pick it up.
Totally understand why EtH don't start him after watching his first weeks as a United player.
I think he needs games - just needs to get used to the pace of the league.
One of these decades we will sign a key player at the start of preseason.
He’s a little off the pace but he still does the things we bought him for - is like a ball magnet in our box and gets those little nicks on the ball the take it away from the player in possession so well. He’ll get up to scratch with the tempo soon enough.
To be fair to McTominay, he’s been excellent and is deservedly keeping him out currently
To be fair to McTominay, he’s been excellent and is deservedly keeping him out currently
ETH knows what he is doing...just give him time to get fit, its good to have the mid-week Europa games as a few of the squad need a game.
Looks a bit Luke Shawish in his shape but he has always been this way. Needs a start in an easier game just to bring himself on.
Hard to judge after a 10 minute cameo today. Maybe isn't a fit as we all thought. I trust ETHs handling of the situation anyway.
He is not starting because he is not ready for whatever reasons. ETH knows the best.
Tbf it was a hospital pass from Malacia i think, but he should've done much better, clear that he is off the pace and will need time to get his bearings right.
Clearly not match fit which is obviously why he hasn't started. No doubt that will come.
tricky game to come into tbh but he did look a bit slow today
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