Club Sale | It’s done!

[Baxquux]

Reuters never said that

Which is why I mentioned the different emphasis in the specific formulation used:- its repeating the bulk of it, - ' MU, SJ, exclusivity' - such as it is, but purposefully omitting the 'negotiating' part for whatever (clickbaiting or prematurely confirmed move to 'officially exclusive' based on the guys sources.... which seemingly involve checking other 'reliable' accounts or news articles and usually picking out points of market interest, from what little I know) reason

 

[moses]

There are no slaves in Qatar.

Could you not tell I was being sarcastic with the poster? Yes, there are big issues but they need to be magnified to such an extent to call out Qatar being a state who still trades in slaves. There's plenty that can be said without resorting to untruths and name-calling.

It was your sarcasm that irked me.

When workers rights and movements are reduced it is basically a form of slavery. As I said, it may not be chattel slavety but that is not the only kind.

 

[JPRouve]

Whataboutism aside, that was in the past. Nike factories are now audited and inspected by human rights watch groups. If Qatar were willing to make genuine changes like that it'd be a different story.

These are from the past 3 months.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...-new-uyghur-forced-labour-complaint-in-france

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/may/18/nike-tax-fines-temporary-workers

Lord knows what they would do if they weren't audited.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I don't see many people championing Radcliffe as some kind of saint. It's more an objection to the cheer leading for the Qatari bid.

It's so weird.

Might be wrong, but I think the cheerleading is correlated mainly with the Glazers being fully outed courtesy of Jassim's bid. It's more-so a celebration that they'd be gone finally.

If Ratcliffe was outing the Glazers entirely, I think people would cheerlead for him with the same energy(regardless of his ownership question marks with Nice).

 

[Chief123]

Routers are not a good source of information

To be fair they are. Routers are brilliant at sending information from one network to another.

 

[cyberman]

It's not that they aren't "good" but you'd expect this level of a breakthrough to be brought by Bloomberg for example or at least collaborated by other peer sources in the financial world.

The fact that it isn't and also that BBC Economics editor has clarified the reuters clever wording in the article shows that they have jumped the gun a bit, but they are confident in the risk.

The really top sources (like Bloomberg) likely wait for a bigger degree of accuracy before breaking the information of exclusivity or new owner etc.

Wasn’t he clarifying Stones article rather than Reuters? I’m not even sure Reuters used any clever wording, it was very to the point,

 

[Raoul]

You can't prove a non-fact- but you can produce 100s of pages of conjecture, because obviously middle eastern wealth is somehow 'different' to western funds, despite the fact that they 're both more or less connected directly or by one degree to some section of the formal ruling class..

Middle Eastern wealth generally involves free money that grows in the ground which the autocratic ruling classes of those states happen to keep for themselves. Western wealth is generally a result of intergenerational capitalism These are light years apart.

 

[Baxquux]

I don't see many people championing Radcliffe as some kind of saint. It's more an objection to the cheer leading for the Qatari bid.

It's so weird.

So lets have SJR on the book for 'social murder' in the form of spikes in death rates following the Tories coming into power, or for ecocide, or (at least for many people here, because I'm agnostic about Brexit as a causal factor, compared to 'Hard Right Brexit') helping destroy the country's economy whilst profiteering from it or avoiding its consequences.

Did he cause all those things? He's at least as culpable as, from the evidence, SR in whatever his country of birth and the government which he has connections with, has been culpable of

 

[Utd heap]

Might be wrong, but I think the cheerleading is correlated mainly with the Glazers being fully outed courtesy of Jassim's bid. It's more-so a celebration that they'd be gone finally.

If Ratcliffe was outing the Glazers entirely, I think people would cheerlead for him with the same energy(regardless of his ownership question marks with Nice).

We need the Glazers to stop taking money out of the club. If they want to stay on as irrelevant shareholders then it's a bit shit but not a big issue. Certainly not enough to cheer for this disaster as an alternative

 

[Utd heap]

So lets have SJR on the book for 'social murder' in the form of spikes in death rates following the Tories coming into power, or for ecocide, or (at least for many people here, because I'm agnostic about Brexit as a causal factor, compared to 'Hard Right Brexit') helping destroy the country's economy whilst profiteering from it or avoiding its consequences.

Did he cause all those things? He's at least as culpable as, from the evidence, SR in whatever his country of birth and the government which he has connections with, has been culpable of

Ok time for bed for me.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Which is why I mentioned the different emphasis in the specific formulation used:- its repeating the bulk of it, - ' MU, SJ, exclusivity' - such as it is, but purposefully omitting the 'negotiating' part for whatever (clickbaiting or prematurely confirmed move to 'officially exclusive' based on the guys sources.... which seemingly involve checking other 'reliable' accounts or news articles and usually picking out points of market interest, from what little I know) reason

I read it several times and even the DM wouldn't write that intentionally for clickbaiting. Not saying they aren't legit, just found it funny that you thought they were trying to repeat the Reuters news

 

[Laurencio]

And your proof for that ?

I'm genuinely asking because so as of now I haven't seen any solid proof from anyone that this is a bid from the Qatari state, It all seems an assumption that if an Arab has money it must mean he's backed by the state.

A man with a net worth of £869M, the chairman (note Chairman, not owner) of Qatar's largest bank, son of the former PM, and member of the royal family is bidding £6bn for a football club.

Meanwhile his offer supposedly dwarfs that of a man worth £20bn, who owns a company worth tens off billions. To top it all off, this Sheik supposedly has more funding available to him long term than this very wealthy billionaire who burns money on sport for fun (Formula 1).

I'm not saying it is most definitely state-backed, but all signs point to yes.

 

[BarstoolProphet]

The workers do have rights. However, they could be easily flaunted. The perpetrators could be getting away without repercussions if they know the right channels. The ex-pats are very well served and looked after and given all the benefits they get in the West and more. Workers from countries such as India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Philipines and certain African countries are paid according to their countries' standards and treated on the same lines as back home. At least this is my past my experience.

I know for a fact things are changing rapidly for the better. This is from a member of a family who lives in Qatar.

This is true (or my experience) regarding UAE also. Abolishing of the kafala system was the first major progressive step in the region for migrant workers.

 

[moses]

You can't prove a non-fact- but you can produce 100s of pages of conjecture, because obviously middle eastern wealth is somehow 'different' to western funds, despite the fact that they 're both more or less connected directly or by one degree to some section of the formal ruling class..

Neither is to my liking but they are hugely different in structural terms. Hugely.

 

[klsv]

Might be wrong, but I think the cheerleading is correlated mainly with the Glazers being fully outed courtesy of Jassim's bid. It's more-so a celebration that they'd be gone finally.

If Ratcliffe was outing the Glazers entirely, I think people would cheerlead for him with the same energy(regardless of his ownership question marks with Nice).

I think people cheerlead for the Qatari bid* because they want that sweet Mbappe money.

*which isn't actually a Qatari bid, but a totally private bid by the member of the Qatari royal family and before anyone says anything negative about this lot, then they don't do slavery, just forced labor.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We need the Glazers to stop taking money out of the club. If they want to stay on as irrelevant shareholders then it's a bit shit but not a big issue. Certainly not enough to cheer for this disaster as an alternative

Some want them gone entirely.

And I'd have no problem if they stayed on for a bit if the owner was better than Ratcliffe. His work at Nice reeks of greater incompetence than Woodward/the Glazers in running a successful football club. And none of the Ratcliffe crowd ever bring this up.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

It could very likely be financial doping, I'm not denying it could be cheating. Let me ask a simple question. If my brother cheats do you automatically assume I also cheat the system?

As it's a football forum let's sing - same old Arsenal/Arabs always cheating.

If you exhibit the same behaviors as the condemned? At the very least questions should be asked.

In this case it's not even a secret, PSG was actually sanctioned by UEFA for breaching FFP, their mysterious commercial lures net them sponsors that allowed them to have the biggest wage bill in Europe, above Madrid, Barca and the PL clubs. If you are fine with that, cool, but don't presume to accuse others of whatever form of bigotry that you are insinuating when people are actually disgusted at the lack of transparency and competitive integrity in these actions.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I think people cheerlead for the Qatari bid* because they want that sweet Mbappe money.

*which isn't actually a Qatari bid, but a totally private bid by the member of the Qatari royal family and before anyone says anything negative about this lot, then they don't do slavery, just forced labor.

Mbappe isn't coming here anyways.

And I wouldn't pay attention to United 'fans' on twitter who cheerlead that way. Cesspool of people trying to gain engagement with their tweets.

Most fans here 'cheerleading' for the bid are likely doing so because it gets rid of the Glazers.

 

[moses]

... they don't do slavery, just forced labor.

Indeed. And that folks, is sportswashing.

 

[Baxquux]

Middle Eastern wealth generally involves free money that grows in the ground which the autocratic ruling classes of those states happen to keep for themselves. Western wealth is generally a result of intergenerational capitalism These are light years apart.

I'm certainly not an expert on the Middle East, and I don't want to attempt an essay on these things, but, basically, the distinction you're drawing is nowhere as clear-cut as that - even if its true that there's an asymmetry in the extent to which respective economies are based around crude (fixed-capital) resource extraction - whether that goes for inherited wealth and historic resource ownership (high in UK), or the extent to which ME has diversified into finance, property and tech..

 

[the_cliff]

A man with a net worth of £869M, the chairman (note Chairman, not owner) of Qatar's largest bank, son of the former PM, and member of the royal family is bidding £6bn for a football club.

Meanwhile his offer supposedly dwarfs that of a man worth £20bn, who owns a company worth tens off billions. To top it all off, this Sheik supposedly has more funding available to him long term than this very wealthy billionaire who burns money on sport for fun (Formula 1).

I'm not saying it is most definitely state-backed, but all signs point to yes.

So again, your 'proof' is an assumption based on 'estimates' of net worth by forbes.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Any chance we can get a separate thread going for the ownership debate and for discussion of ethical ramifications? All sale-related discussion here quickly ends up getting derailed.

 

[the_cliff]

I'm certainly not an expert on the Middle East, and I don't want to attempt an essay on these things, but, basically, the distinction you're drawing is nowhere as clear-cut as that - even if its true that there's an asymmetry in the extent to which respective economies are based around crude (fixed-capital) resource extraction - whether that goes for inherited wealth and historic resource ownership (high in UK), or the extent to which ME has diversified into finance, property and tech..

No the Middle East is just a desert with shepherds that just pump oil (with the help of America and the UK), hoard the gold and spend it on football clubs. Economy ? what economy ?

 

[Raoul]

Any chance we can get a separate thread going for the ownership debate and for discussion of ethical ramifications? All sale-related discussion here quickly ends up getting derailed.

There is a separate thread with a poll. If people want to talk full on politics, they can start a thread in the CE.

 

[sullydnl]

If Prince Harry and Tony Blair’s son bought a PL team together with their combined families’ wealth, nobody would say the club had been ‘bought by England’, it’d just get viewed as two spoiled rich kids buying a play thing.

They would if the context was the same, but it isn't.

Unlike Qatar, the UK state doesn't have the same de facto authority over its citizens' high wealth transactions. Or the pre-existing long term strategy of these sort of strategic high profile purchases directed by the state. Or of similar purchases within football through state tied bodies. It also didn't have reports of state interest in a purchase before the sales process began, followed by reports that they would indeed be placing a bid, followed by reports that they would need to do so through a proxy as Abu Dhabi had done at City, followed by a member of the extended royal family whose personal wealth and position is tied directly to the state stepping forward to lead the bid exactly as you would expect that proxy to do, with no sign of any competing bid emenating from the state. But if all that was the case, then you would have academics, journalists and geopolitical experts regarding it as a state bid, exactly as you currently have for Qatar.

 

[TheNewEra]

No the Middle East is just a desert with shepherds that just pump oil (with the help of America and the UK), hoard the gold and spend it on football clubs. Economy ? what economy ?

Dubai has a large economy based on Tourism, it isn't reliant on oil money anymore. That's where large sponsorships like Fly Emirates have helped, and Etihad. People take flights to go to Dubai for the beaches to see the Burj Khalifa and a lot of other destinations within Dubai, its the hub that connects the west and the east people do layovers there.

Qatar and the Qatari airways is one of the highest rank (I think that and Singapore get the number 1 spot each year) they aren't just Oil.

 

[Infra-red]

Times vs Reuters. One will lose a bit of credibility after this. With this last tweet Reuters is sending a message to Times.
Lets see what Times will say now.

Rather than one of these two reliable news organisations having crap sources or lying journalists, isn't it much more likely that both Reuters and The Times are accurately reporting what they are being told, albeit by the different sources (bids).

It seems to me that the Glazers/Raine have decided to take both bids right the finish line. Qatar and Ineos have likely each been given plenty of reasons by Raine to be confident - both have been lead to believe that their bid will be successful.

One of them will be obviously be wrong and presumably come out of this process feeling very aggrieved. From the outside looking in, this looks 50-50 at the moment.

 

[the_cliff]

Dubai has a large economy based on Tourism, it isn't reliant on oil money anymore. That's where large sponsorships like Fly Emirates have helped, and Etihad. People take flights to go to Dubai for the beaches to see the Burj Khalifa and a lot of other destinations within Dubai, its the hub that connects the west and the east people do layovers there.

Qatar and the Qatari airways is one of the highest rank (I think that and Singapore get the number 1 spot each year) they aren't just Oil.

I know, I was being sarcastic.

I live and work in Dubai I know. I also work for a company owned by an Arab billionaire Emirati that has nothing to do with the state....

 

[TheNewEra]

I know, I was being sarcastic.

I live and work in Dubai I know. I also work for an Arab billionaire that has nothing to do with the state....

Used to live there too, I miss the life out there!

 

[BluesJr]

The Rio video feels like an age ago but still so relevant.

 

[Laurencio]

So again, your 'proof' is an assumption based on 'estimates' of net worth by forbes.

No... I'm asking what is more likely - state backed or personal wealth. Are you really telling me that the whole reason people are excited about the Sheik isn't because he comes with £200bn+ of state funds, which enables massive investment into the ground, training ground, sponsorship agreements and infrastructure? I doubt it is down to his personal wealth and experience as a banker at a Qatari bank.

 

[Raoul]

The Rio video feels like an age ago but still so relevant.

When Reuters fails us, there's always Rio and the texts his pals send him.

 

[Sultan]

It was your sarcasm that irked me.

When workers rights and movements are reduced it is basically a form of slavery. As I said, it may not be chattel slavety but that is not the only kind.

Qatar does not force inward immigration. A lot of these workers move to Qatar/UAE/Saudi because certain countries I named in another post cannot provide them with employment opportunities. Poverty in their homeland dictates they move to these countries. I would call that a positive contribution.

I agree, immigrant workers can and should always be treated better. Qatar/UAE can easily afford to pay that bit extra. The simple fact is they can afford to spend Billions on a few weeks of football and buy United at extortionate costs. It's such a pity they cannot give some of these petro gains to make improvements in the lives of people working to make these things possible.

 

[Mickeza]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ted-takeover-news-share-trading-paused-qatar/

Telegraph as saying different to Times/Keegan in that there won’t be a preferred bidder/period of exclusivity - process will move swiftly once bidder is chosen.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Qatar does not force inward immigration. A lot of these workers move to Qatar/UAE/Saudi because certain countries I named in another post cannot provide them with employment opportunities. Poverty in their homeland dictates they move to these countries. I would call that a positive contribution.

No, they just lie to them about the conditions to make them believe they are moving toward an opportunity, and then pay them a pittance and take away their passport so they can't leave when they are stuck living in squalor and filth. Christ.

 

[BluesJr]

When Reuters fails us, there's always Rio and the texts his pals send him.

Time won’t serve your takes well.

 

[Baxquux]

No the Middle East is just a desert with shepherds that just pump oil (with the help of America and the UK), hoard the gold and spend it on football clubs. Economy ? what economy ?

You'd think so, the way people are talking. And also that they knew about the inner-structures of ME funds and their relationship to the state, rather than relying on media reports and maybe, in some cases, bits and pieces of half-remembered IR or economics modules. Which is fine, but its the attempt to present that as this inarguable case against a private fund/bank that takes money from other rich people, including royals (most of whom are very very far from 'power', further from influence than the average great niece of the late british queen), as a pure state enterprise, and, conversely, to overlook things which they should in many cases know much more about, given that majority of fans here are UK-based or Uk-connected.

I don't care about mbappe- i just want a conversation that isn't littered with hypocrisy and cant and virtue-signalling (as opposed to if people want to discuss legitimate social justice, which there are forums here for and which I'm also committed to) , as well as my childhood club to be sustainable and well-managed in a normal way and free of parasitic influence of Glazers or other extractors. If SJR was coming in and funding it like Brighton or Brentford owners - and I'm aware of the betting connections being problematic too - rather than potentially debt-laden and in hock to American vultures implicated with abuses as bad as anything we've heard Qatar associated with, and wasn't also being held up as some paragon compared with SR, then I might find it much easier to let his political (and business conduct) slide when talking about potential ownership.

 

[moses]

Qatar does not force inward immigration. A lot of these workers move to Qatar/UAE/Saudi because certain countries I named in another post cannot provide them with employment opportunities. Poverty in their homeland dictates they move to these countries. I would call that a positive contribution.

I agree, immigrant workers can and should always be treated better. Qatar/UAE can easily afford to pay that bit extra. The simple fact is they can afford to spend Billions on a few weeks of football and buy United at extortionate costs. It's such a pity they cannot give some of these petro gains to make improvements in the lives of people working to make these things possible.

They are forced though, by poverty, albeit not by Qatar, but they are grievously exploited when they get there.

 

[Woziak]

Irrespective of leaks on Twitter, the level of trades today were so high they had to suspend the process.

1. Rio leaks Qatar - he’s not known for hyperbole
2. Reuters produce a statement confirming
3. Share price rises to $26 at one point
4. Then the British media ITK dispute everything with credible sources like the Times saying SJR is still in the lead
5. Now we Get to ITK journalists like Ben Jacobs saying that Reuters could know more than him and he doesn’t think their lying., No shit Sherlock !

The funniest part is the thread is probably split 66% in Favour of Qatar and 34% SJR but even now, if SJR could raise a higher bid and the whole cycle would start again with the Greedy Goblins saying yes to SJR and then asking SJ for even more,

No Fanbase has ever suffered so much from such inept, irresponsible, uninterested, money grabbing CNUTS and still we bicker amongst ourselves at the merits and cons of the two main bidders who are both stupid enough to engage with these morons, it’s highly unlikely even if a deal Is agreed this weekend that the necessary paperwork could be completed before the Middle August 2023, thus ruining any potential momentum ETH had from last season,

Three months ago we wanted and maybe dreamed of players like Rice, Macalister, Caciedo, KMJ, Cohman, Dembele, Bellingham, Neymar, D Costa, Osimhen, Mike Maignan , Kane, Camavinga whilst being fed media BS that SJR had a plan to put Manchester back in the Club and SJ would build his vision around the most talented young players in world football like Jude Bellingham.

And here we are, squabbling amongst each other about whose going to win while the Poor Manager, possibly the best we’ve had since Sir Alex will probably end up with ;

J Pickford, A Disasli, A Rabiot, M Mount , R Hojlund and a last minute panic buy of a 33 year old A Griezmann and what’s worse we’ll end paying £225m for that lot.

Never has any English football club endured such complete morons in charge at the exec level , which is why we are now at the END GAME, there’s no dividends and there’s no more cash which was self generated by the club to spunk on gutless players who know nothing of our history but instead are seduced by £300-400k per week. Rumours of EPL making things potentially difficult if SJ wins by checking source of Money, Good luck with that!

This week you comprehensively voted against any future Leveraged buys outs, shame you didn’t do that 18 years ago.

We are Owed a quick and swift approval providing everything is above board of course.

It’s time to restore the Crown Jewels of the British Game, we don’t have a divine entitlement to be the best club in the land wining every big title but when a team is 2-3 points behind the PL leader at half point month of January and in a potential title fight, they deserve more than a slow cumbersome 6’7 cart horse that played for Burnley and scored less than 4 PL goals.

 

[Rood]

Any chance we can get a separate thread going for the ownership debate and for discussion of ethical ramifications? All sale-related discussion here quickly ends up getting derailed.

Ye good luck with that !

There are already several better threads for those discussions but I guess this is the megathread

I dip into this thread now and again but can't possibly follow the 10 different tangents that come up on a daily basis