Club Sale | It’s done!

Status
Not open for further replies.

lostcauz

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
600
I’m confident they’re going to sell, whether it’s today or in 6 months time they’re going. The interest rates shooting sky high, my mortgage has gone from 600 to a grand with these borrowing rates, imagine the debt that the club has it will cripple the club. They’ve maximised their credit cards and loans, and have no where to turn. Whether it’s ineous or Qatar I’m confident we’ll be in good hands.
The club financials were better than expected. Is everyone ruling out they do something shitty like sell future tv rights like Barca or sell naming rights to old Trafford so they can stick around.

There is reasons to stick around, New TV deals in the future. Expanded champions league. New format club World Cup. The club seemingly being better run with money being spent wisely and a reduced wage bill.

I think it’s unlikely and would make them look like a joke in the business world. Raine and the Qataris certainly wouldn’t engage with them in the future. Ultimately I agree, you don’t go 8 months deep into a selling process to then do a U turn.

I thought the share price would drop off but still seems to be confidence in the market that it’s heading SJ’s way.
 

Pes6Monster

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 11, 2023
Messages
499
Raine and the Qataris certainly wouldn’t engage with them again...I thought the share price would drop off but still seems to be confidence in the market that it’s heading SJ’s way.
Both Raine and Qatar will return, if needed. The prize is Man United. As for the share price, it is entirely speculative. It drops and rises on guesswork.

1981.

AIDS/HIV discovered, Pope shot, Reagan shot, El Mozote massacre, Bobby Sands becomes an MP in rebuke to Thatcher administration, Ron Atkinson takes over United and signs Bryan Robson which leads to Busby resignation from board, For Your Eyes Only hits cinema (a personal favourite), Scousers win European Cup, Villa champions, Kerry win fourth All Ireland in a row and some royal wedding.
 

Pes6Monster

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jul 11, 2023
Messages
499
Ratcliffe: Might Not Be Enough
From 'dead in the water' to 'might not be enough' is actually quite a turnaround.

This is Ben Jacobs' level discourse.

Of course the Ineos bid might not be sufficient. They are going up against a state-sanctioned consortium. There are very few companies , if any, who can consistently compete against an essential state bid from the oil-rich likes of Qatar.

At least it is something, though, even if it does imply strongly that Ratcliffe is actually in the race, still, turning a Glazer head. Or two...
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
Quoted from the article. Wonder what their definition of imminently is and if it comes to fruition.
I can’t see how they can announce a sale to Jim without all of his bids problems being sorted so an imminent sale announcement must be Qatar or staying.
This just needs to end so I’m hanging on to the literal definition here
 

AngeloHenriquez

Full Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
13,631
Location
Location Location
Supports
Stevenage
Anyone know anything about the source?

EDIT: Obviously I know the company but didn't they previously make a bold statement that didn't come true?
 

laughtersassassin

Full Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
11,580
If they stay the fans need to to revolt like never before. The aim should be to get multiple home games cancelled so we are forced to play our matches behind closed doors. That'll piss them off.
 

George The Best

Full Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
2,162
Location
Nut Megging
I can’t see how they can announce a sale to Jim without all of his bids problems being sorted so an imminent sale announcement must be Qatar or staying.
This just needs to end so I’m hanging on to the literal definition here
He’s probably been re-working his bid to take the A class shareholders into account - he pretty much has to if he wants to stay in the game.
 

krazyrobus

Full Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
4,754
Feck me, looking at that chart, I hope it is not Ineos. The dude took two absolute dominant teams and turned then into also-rans.
 

dannyrhinos89

OMG socks and sandals lol!
Joined
Nov 24, 2013
Messages
14,496
These parasites aren't ever leaving.

I just can't see a world where these cnuts aren't at united.
 

pascell

Full Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
14,356
Location
Sir Alex Ferguson Stand
That's bullshit for a start. Sid Vicious competed in the Wrestlemania main event against Hulk Hogan in '92.
No one said it had to be factual. Look at the Glazers, they put the club up for sale but never said they'd sell.
Woah now that is breaking news, they either sell or don't sell.
 

Moriarty

Full Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
19,200
Location
Reichenbach Falls
Both Raine and Qatar will return, if needed. The prize is Man United. As for the share price, it is entirely speculative. It drops and rises on guesswork.

1981.

AIDS/HIV discovered, Pope shot, Reagan shot, El Mozote massacre, Bobby Sands becomes an MP in rebuke to Thatcher administration, Ron Atkinson takes over United and signs Bryan Robson which leads to Busby resignation from board, For Your Eyes Only hits cinema (a personal favourite), Scousers win European Cup, Villa champions, Kerry win fourth All Ireland in a row and some royal wedding.
Big Ron said it wasn't so much the signing of Robson that pushed Matt, but the amount of money that was flooding into the game. I wonder what he'd make of it today?
 

Zora

New Member
Newbie
Joined
May 18, 2023
Messages
383
None of the media know anything - thats the only thing which is certain right now.
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
37,331
He’s probably been re-working his bid to take the A class shareholders into account - he pretty much has to if he wants to stay in the game.
Yeah but wouldn’t he have to make another bid then? You can’t rework around class A shares getting their share. I’m sure FT etc would be all over that
And I’m sure if they did up their bid then Glazers would leak it so Qatar would be forced to up theirs since they want more blood out of the United stone
 

Woziak

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,902
I'm not so sure about either conclusion. In fact, I can see them hanging on or going with Ratcliffe.

United's debt is on United. Yes, a financial collapse will be catastrophic for us but not the Glazers. They can watch it collapse and make do with their athwart billions, as could other shareholders.

They won't want this to happen hence the assessment of options, including a potential sale. It is early to suggest they are desperate. Remember, United will have much easier access to the CL money-pit soon and seem to have turned a corner. The announcement of record profit will influence the Glazer's ultimate decision, either to stay or increase the price.

As for being in good hands post-sale, I cannot see what you are basing this on. Qatar's psg comedy is the biggest circus in town, whilst Ineos represent continuity Glazers. We don't particularly know how things will develop but all evidence is worrying.
Whilst I vehemently agree with you both potential owners do not inspire confidence, I do agree that the Glazer siblings remote managing a behemoth like united with increasing interest rates and more importantly the Leveraged buy out was a 20 year loan, the club has only been service the interest for that loan, they have not paid the debt off but they have to either ;

A. Settle the debt of £535m
B. Or reschedule the Debt but that would entail some debt repayment of at least 33/50%

The Glazers have just been sanctioned FFP for the first time during their tenure only £287,000 however this is because the Goblins have never put a penny into the club and they will continue to never put a penny in when they or whoever buys the club must to prevent huge FFP/FSP issues going forward. They could have put £120m FFP over 3 years to help the club through the covid Crisis but they never did.

Fast forward 1 year with all 6 still in charge best case scenario ;

1. Club finishes top 3 - 80 points
2. Club 1/4 CL
3. Club Wins Fa Cup
4. Club gets to Carabo 1/4
5. Revenue grows to £675m
6. Accounts look better but FFP fine us €20m
7. Accounts state that no dividends can be taken second year running
8. Interest rates go up new cost to service £535m debt is £55m, so another £15m on top of this year.
9. Current Cash position of club is worse than 2023 of £73m to £35m for 2024, Credit card now only has £100m from £300m left on it.
10. No stadium or training improvements
11. Financial Sustainability for 2024 would be 80% of £675m so the club can only spend £540m on Wages, Net Transfers, Amortised Transfer Fees , Agent and Expenses Fees and Financial Costs and running. Assuming our wage bill will be at least £350m by then with new player recruits, Amortised transfer yearly cost of £90m, Agent Fees & Expenses £40m, Financial £50m interest to service debt plus a loss or a profit, looking at the last 3 years this is another loss of at least £60/70m that’s a cost of £580/590m against an allowance of £540m!

We could get kicked out if Europe but probably accrue a huge fine which the Glazers simply can’t afford?

Summary
My point, if they don’t sell by the latest time period, which is this winter window, then the value of the club starts to go down dramatically, both Bidders are aware that the financial situation is so bad, that if the Glazers left it another two years and the shares plummet back to $12 each, the club value might be nearer £4.5bn not £5.5bn!

This is the double bluff that Joel and Avram are hoping for they are sitting there hoping SJ will say ok I’ll give you £6bn for the club now, however 92 Foundation might double bluff them and just walk away, the reality is we as fans really don’t have a clue but one thing is sure if the Glazers do not get investment, they have to sell and probably within 12 months!
 
Last edited:

Appletonred

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 15, 2023
Messages
485
Any shred of credibility they have in the world of business would largely evaporate if they decide to stay on, all things considered, wasting the time of the Raine Group, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, and indeed Qatar, probable share price manipulation, not to mention rising debts, they will surely announce a sale to Sheikh Jassim as the new owner of the club to take it forward.
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
7,699
Given our transfer activity when we are supposedly restricted by FFP I have a feeling the sale will go through after the transfer window.
 

glazed

Eats diamonds to beat thermodynamics
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
7,913
Absurdly, the sale is currently down to who is the most willing to wait and who gives in and breaks the uncomfortable silence. Unfortunately J&A greed has made a fairly logical and rationally conducted process by Raine tip over into complete disfunctionality and the whole thing is now in doubt. That's people for you.
 

Woziak

Full Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,902
He’s probably been re-working his bid to take the A class shareholders into account - he pretty much has to if he wants to stay in the game.
That’s a bid well above what I think he can raise quickly, INEOS and Jimmy boy are rich but not liquid rich like Qatar? But we’ll see that would be 80/20% bid with Joel and Avram staying on at best ?
 

Ken Barlow

Full Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
228
Location
Drinks in the Rovers
Whilst I vehemently agree with you both potential owners do not inspire confidence, I do agree that the Glazer siblings remote managing a behemoth like united with increasing interest rates and more importantly the Leveraged buy out was a 20 year loan, the club has only been service the interest for that loan, they have not paid the debt off but they have to either ;

A. Settle the debt of £535m
B. Or reschedule the Debt but that would entail some debt repayment of at least 33/50%

The Glazers have just been sanctioned FFP for the first time during their tenure only £287,000 however this is because the Goblins have never put a penny into the club and they will continue to never put a penny in when they or whoever buys the club must to prevent huge FFP/FSP issues going forward. They could have put £120m FFP over 3 years to help the club through the covid Crisis but they never did.

Fast forward 1 year with all 6 still in charge best case scenario ;

1. Club finishes top 3 - 80 points
2. Club 1/4 CL
3. Club Wins Fa Cup
4. Club gets to Carabo 1/4
5. Revenue grows to £675m
6. Accounts look better but FFP fine us €20m
7. Accounts state that no dividends can be taken second year running
8. Interest rates go up new cost to service £535m debt is £55m, so another £15m on top of this year.
9. Current Cash position of club is worse than 2023 of £73m to £35m for 2024, Credit card now only has £100m from £300m left on it.
10. No stadium or training improvements
11. Financial Sustainability for 2024 would be 80% of £675m so the club can only spend £540m on Wages, Net Transfers, Amortised Transfer Fees , Agent and Expenses Fees and Financial Costs and running. Assuming our wage bill will be at least £350m by then with new player recruits, Amortised transfer yearly cost of £90m, Agent Fees & Expenses £40m, Financial £50m interest to service debt plus a loss or a profit, looking at the last 3 years this is another loss of at least £60/70m that’s a cost of £580/590m against an allowance of £540m!

We could get kicked out if Europe but probably accrue a huge fine which the Glazers simply can’t afford?

Summary
My point, if they don’t sell by the latest time period, which is this winter window, then the value of the club starts to go down dramatically, both Bidders are aware that the financial situation is so bad, that if the Glazers left it another two years and the shares plummet back to $12 each, the club value might be nearer £4.5bn not £5.5bn!

This is the double bluff that Joel and Avram are hoping for they are sitting there hoping SJ will say ok I’ll give you £6bn for the club now, however 92 Foundation might double bluff them and just walk away, the reality is we as fans really don’t have a clue but one thing is sure if the Glazers do not get investment, they have to sell and probably within 12 months!
Your posts and insights are great, well not great reading, but thanks for sharing - a really good forecast into the future. There's things like shirt sponsorship on the table where we might see a marginal improvement to mitigate some of those smaller increases - but the credit line is running out, the loans are more expensive - and one of the most important points you mention, no room for stadium or training improvements - let alone players.

On the FFP fine - my understanding was that we received a fine for failing to declare losses outside of Covid reasons. The article I read mentioned something about wrongly categorising or attributing something to Covid, when it clearly wasn't a covid related loss. I didn't think that the fine was related to making a loss, I thought it was related to how we reported it - and not the value of it.

Certainly scary to think this once debt free club has now almost used up its credit lines to the point of being penalised. Remember when Woodward claimed that the club didn't have to be successful on the football pitch, to be successful off it. Makes you sick.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.