If this goes through, and Mr Ratcliffe is minority owner with the Glazers sticking around.. I think I’m finally done with the club, it’s not Manchester United, and if we’re honest it hasn’t been for a very long time.. our club died when those parasites forced us into debt and dragged us into a position where we couldn’t possibly compete.. this is the Glazer athletic club, and they don’t deserve anyone’s support
Club Sale | It’s done!
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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I've said a few times I'm not for or against either I just want the Glazers gone but if this deal (minority investment) goes through looks like a hollow win to me.
That deal looks like the worst possible scenario to me. I hope I am proved wrong though.
Nothing has changed mate. There is no new information available today than there was 3 weeks ago when the news of the Ineos "25% stake" first broke.
We have no idea how a potential Ineos bid may look.
Again, an assumption here, but I don't think Jim is going to pay The Glazers off for a partial share now, without a rock solid guarantee that he will be able to take control in the near term. He is not waiting years and leaving The Glazers in control for years - that would be terrible PR for him. Especially when, as we all know, The Glazers wont use that money for reinvestment.
We didn't know for sure if an Ineos 25% stake means an equal purchase of class B and class A shares. I know it was said in passing in the Daily Mail article a couple of weeks ago, but is that gospel?
Is it not the case that if The Glazers sell any portion of their class B stock, then an equal $ value per share has to be offered to class A shareholders? Wasnt this what the potential legal action was based on?
If so, Ineos could buy 1 class B at circa $40, that would mean the board would have to make an equal offer to the class A shareholders. Jim then hoovers up all class A shares owned by the minority shareholders.
On a per share basis, the Ineos bid will be the same as the Qatar bid, meaning the minority owners have no cause for complaint, so wont take legal action.
That then clears the pathway for a sale of the class B shares. I would then suspect that The Glazers sell for a slight discount on their class B shares. Why, because this is the price for allowing Joel and Avram to stay put. Obviously, the board would have to change the company rules so the class B didn't downgrade to class A once sold.
Correct. The only individuals at this point that would welcome this are oppo wums.
The Ratcliffe deal has become further and further degraded and negative to the point where his mask is off and it’s Crystal clear what he is - an enemy of Manchester United and liar.
Think a step ahead. Why would Ratcliffe want a minority stake in United?
Worst case is no sale, or minority investment from some US firm which would be Glazers jr. At least Ratcliffe cares about the club, he's too old to be doing this just for the money.
Inaccurate on multiple statements but generally you’re on the right track.
If you invest for 25% of shares they would be equal shares he’s not buying nothing, he’s doing a deal with the devil and investing.
You may be right about the put and call clauses that may or may not exist in a separate contract from a minority investment contract.
If your a minority share holder especially a hedge fund like most are, you have multiple investors you are answerable too and you would have promised a ROI - you can’t tell 75% of those investors guess what we’ve sold out finally but your have to enter a lottery to see which one in four of you gets the money now and the other 3 out of four might get their money into 3-5 years.
If you know anything about hedge funds and how they operate, they most definitely will go to court and tie the Glazers and INEOS in litigation until they get what they want!!!
Last statement I actually feel sorry for you, the board have very little say in class A and Class B share voting rights, this was created in financial law on behest of the advice of the lawyers who represent the Glazers.
They created the separation of class A and Class B so they would always retain control of the club even when the club is on its ass like it currently is, it was created in the main to prevent a hostile takeover, but consider this if they were (Lawyers) to grant one investor special dispensation to buy class B shares where they retain their 10 times voting rights, because that’s what Jimmy Boy would be an investor, it would also create potential legal challenges for all the shareholders like Lindsell train who bought shares from 2008-2017 to challenge in court why their shares are now only valued 1/10th the value of Jimmy RatCliffe ?
The most frustrating thing is that the Glazers are laughing their heads off about this.
Totally agree
I feel sorry for you mate!
How many time are you going to either simply make up information, or just jump to assumptions? Based on what?
How do you know the make up of the deal? How do you know the 25% stake is for "equal shares".
You, I, or anyone else for that matter know forth fifths of feck all about how this sale is going to go.
As i said, it was only two weeks ago you were insistent after speaking to your "mate in finance" that the club would be sold for £7-8billion in total. Now you're backtracking like Victor Lindelof does with a forward running at him!
Want me to dig up your posts? More flip flops than a beach full of havaianas!
They are getting an ROI. You said it yourself - $40 a share. Double todays value. And $15 a share more than the highest ever market value.
I feel sorry for you if you think that The Glazers and their lawyers cant change how class B work.
Laughable if you think this is written in stone, because if it was, then INEOS could never take control of MUFC with Avram and Joel still on place.
Especially, if as I suggested, in my earlier post, if INEOS hoover up all the hedge fund owned class A shares, INEOS and The Glazers can cut any deal they want.
The minority shareholders have no right of recourse if they change the rules on class B once they have already been paid out!
It's Qatar or bust at this point.
Yeah it's doomsday without a doubt
Yeah not clearing the debt is another stick for us to hit Ratcliffe with,he probably naively believes he can get them out in a few years
I doubt they have the emotion to laugh. They seem soulless, motivated by nothing other than money.
If it is Jimmy the Rat investing and enabling them to stay on I hope the club rots and becomes worthless for them all.
It will rise again in time.
We should probably wait for as much details as possible before we think of it as a Doomsday scenario. There is of course a version of a Ratcliffe minority stake that is a 'Doomsday scenario' but if it's a minority stake this year, with a view to taking full control over the next few years, is that not better than nothing at all?
There are too many people in this thread that are biased to who they want, who believe every random twitter account talking about either bidding party, who believe propaganda and stupid reports about either party because it reaffirms their support for their bidding party. The reality is absolutely nobody knows the specifics of any deal being proposed, and nobody knows who's 'in the lead', nobody knows if the Glazers will sell, nobody knows if Qatar is going to be a fantastic owner just as nobody knows if Ratcliffe would be a fantastic owner. Nobody knows what Ratcliffe is fully proposing, everybody just reads the words 'minority stake' and foams at the mouth.
The only thing anybody knows for sure is the Glazers are even more odious than we originally believed them to be, and that they clearly don't want to sell under the current circumstances and last offers, because otherwise the club would have been sold by now.
Everybody should try to have a balanced head and stop reading constant nothing updates, because nobody knows.
Why are you laughing. It's clear the guy is on first-name basis with Ratcliffe or at least his backside, since he interacts with it so much on a daily basis.
Was Howson on the Caf?
He can't get it for 5 that's the point,if that was the case he would already be the owner. I don't believe for a second he's willing to do whatever it takes to get the club anymore.
You might be right, but I would also try to get it for as little as possible.
There was definitely a thread at the start of my time here where he was responding. Don't remember the name though.
Don't trust that guy at all.
i think No sale is a better scenario than Jimmy chipping in. No sale means a serious trouble for a club, 2-3 years of agony and then the Glazers simply have to sell. Adding Jim’s money mean the agony will last a few years more.
A lot of people keep spouting this and maybe that's the case. But we have no info right now.
It's just as possible he is buying 25% now with options that has him take majority control over a number of years.
Until we know that the doomsday comments don't really make sense.
A staged takeover isn't uncommon. Let's hope that's the case if Jim wins.
Sir Jim has won the bid about 5 times already since the saga began. It typically results in Qatar submitting a new bid within days later.
Yeah he was.
We absolutely can compete, we are one of the biggest spenders.
You post this or something similar to this every single day. In fact, I saw the post before your username and thought “I bet that’s Croadyman”
I get that you’re anxious mate. We all are. But none of us know what SJR or Qatar will bring to the table. Both parties will have positives and negatives.
And how do we know that a third player doesn’t just appear from nowhere? It happens in business all of the time. We all believe every shit report that Bloomberg, Daily Express and McDonalds churn out when in fact, no one has a scooby on what’s actually happening. Every single report is speculation. Has any journalist been correct on the takeover yet? Maybe the ones who play it safe every day “No deal as of yet” but that’s about it.
The fear mongering which goes on in here every single day needs to stop now. Too many of us; myself included, assume that one buyer is going to turn us into Man City and the other will turn us into Barsnley.
Neither are true. Or maybe both are true. But none of us know anything, including the actual facts behind both SJR and Qatar’s bids.
It’s like Groundhog Day in here.
This is like saying M&S can compete with Amazon because they used to be successful and made money in the past.
You're living in the past, Liverpool style
That's not what I said, I said we are one of the biggest spenders now, top 3 in the world.
I never condemned violence or shit like that, but match going fans should consider option to NOT attend games (i am not calling for violence). They would sell it after 5-6 games.
You are slowly losing that magic aura.
You are slowly losing that magic aura.
And what I implied is that's in the past.
The club is broke and Ratcliffe won't fix that problem
The work
If this is the case, I don't really want to know much about the now. I want to know about the 10 year plan. The man will be 80 by then. Does it fall to his children? INEOS keeps it on? Who knows.
Arsenal had years of stagnation because Stan and Usmanov wouldn’t spend to benefit the other. There’s no way a minority stake benefits anyone other than the glazers. Jim will be waiting a very long time to buy the rest of the shares, it doesn’t make sense at all.
This is where my understanding of what's happening goes out of the window...
IF their only motivation is money, then why would you decline a fix sum fee of 6bn for minority investment with no guarantee in that increasing in the future? Their dividends don't come close and they don't have that many years left to rake out 6bn from the hotseat.
Seems awfully risky to hope they make a smidge over 6bn in the future especially with the way the club is.
Has something happened? I've been avoiding this thread for my sanity, why is it reading like SJR buying a minority sake is imminent?
Not really.
Ratcliffe has an edge because of his minority offer, but that's about it. A new Qatar bid isn't ruled out either.
It's not in the past, that's now. I don't understand why you are confused by this.
Absolutely nothing has happened except for a few bullshit articles, some bloke from Leicester who claims Qatar have bought us and David Beckham saying he’s going to manage us when Ten Hag is sacked next month.
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