I’m not sold on Qatar either but not as hysterical because literally everything we use comes from someone somewhere who’s used nefarious means, whether it’s filling the car, the gas that heats our homes, our adidas gear, etc
Club Sale | It’s done!
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If he owns by Thursday, I’d stick him up front.
Good thing Qatar isn't about oil then.
You support a club that's been hugely successful and full of history even before the sugar daddies came. Reason enough to shit on the plasticsMy issue is that I won't have any bragging rights against sugar daddied clubs. I don't use it but it's still nice to look down on some clubs.
I’m looking at this from a football perspective and who’s best suited to take the club forward and the Qatari’s plan and vision is far better for the club than Ratcliffe’s who hasn’t been clear on anything other than banging the Brexit drum.
Sure it aint. Where are the billions coming from then pal?
Gas and slave labour.
Football died when the premier league was born.
it died when Jack Walker bank rolled them to the title.
It died when Abramovich bank rolled Chelsea to a decade of domination.
It died when the Glazers bought our club without a penny of their own money, and tied our hands for nearly 2 decades.
It died when Abu Dhabi bought City and won title after title.
At what point do we accept that premier league football just isn't normal, fair and square anymore?
Crafton has an excellent track record of being consistently critical of City, the Glazers and the Qatar World Cup and now is correctly being so in regards to a potential state-backed Qatari bid, as any journalist worth their salt should be.
Natural gas and thousands of investments in the wealthiest companies in the world.
Yeah you're looking at only want impacts us.
You haven't thought about the bigger picture. A huge football institute being used to mask human right offences. That's the only reason they want the club as it's clearly not about profits for them.
You can argue it could be good for the club but at what cost? Morally it's never going to feel good.
Gas "pal". For a guy trying to act clever all the time you really should get your facts right. Bit embarrassing
Genuine question, have you even watched the video yourself? I just did and there is literally nothing apart from "United should be doing better", so what exactly is being ignored? I think we can both at least agree to the point that Ratcliffe's PR job has been quite disastrous so far, he was very quick to say he will bid for a club (like what, 1-2 months ago now?) but we are still waiting for any kind of statement with his plans or vision for the club that would clear a lot of "I think this or that newspaper made that up" stuff. Qataris did it multiple times already clearly outlining what they will do if they win the bid. Jim? We have feck all.
Yet it strangely seems to do the opposite.
So you’ve responded to the very last line of my post.
not sure what that video is meant to prove? His first line “football success is measured by money”. No it’s not, liverpool cleaned up for a few seasons without overspending
Ahhh so there we have it. It's modern day western attitudes towards journalists.
Not believing a single thing that anyone writes and only picks and chooses what you want to believe only when it suits your own line of thinking. You believe that SJR loves the club so much (which we have been lead to believe by Jim himself) that he would surely write off the clubs debt, right? But when it comes out that he in fact isn't adding any fresh debt, aka, keeping the club firmly in the debt situation we are in now. You throw that part of the story away, put your fingers in your ears, not listen to anyone and "wait" for a press release which may or may not actually come out. Nor will said supposed press release even include that part (debt) of the takeover deal in it.
It really does astound me that attitudes towards journalists and journalism has got to this point. Call it a mixture of the Pandemic, Brexit and Trump before all of that and the rise of right wing finger pointing towards "fake news" of anything that challenges their belief of viewpooint. I simply don't understand it. Only choosing to believe what you want to believe or if it comes from the horses mouth so to speak.
Think that years of training and years of University Journalism courses, all that money spent and by your own very words "has no clue" "Wishy washy nonsense" that they sit there and just make up bullshit all day every day. EVEN when it's positive news and you choose to believe part of it but not all of it. Journalists spend hours reaching out to certain people to get scoops on things. Some people want to be kept anonymous to avoid any problems hence why these people are kept firmly behind the term "sources". In such a high profile case such as this one, with rich and powerful people involved. I very much doubt, Crafton and anyone else reporting on this case, for example Keegan, who people in this very thread said that "he knows feck all" (despite not knowing feck all themselves ironically enough) has proven to be rather reliable on the matter. Would sit there and just make shit up and be wishy washy for the sake of it. Because they would be open to legal issues for not only themselves, but their publications.
Maybe it's time we give journalists a break huh?
So, as @dove quite rightly pointed out, you believe that a bid has been made, but you don't believe the finer details of it. Is this because it's not what you want to hear?
That's why I find myself detached from things that don't involve on the pitch matters.
And more recently, hospitality.
I suspect a key part of this for qatar is the ability to develop a part of manchester. A foot in the door as a Uk hotelier among other things.
If I were neville with hotel football, I'd be a bit worried they will completely overshadow his business.
From a pure footballing perspective : Qatar have built a club winning the French league on the trot. With a club that was a relegation candidate. Ratcliffe's Nice team is fecking shit. Nobody can convince me this has no bearing when it comes to United.
The notion we have to tone down our reaction because we need to dress ourselves or drive to work doesn't sit well with me.
Lots of these situations are unavoidable. I know because I try to live as ethically and sustainably as possible and it's fecking hard. And I mean hard. I grow most if my own food when seasons allow and boycott pretty much everything that's possible. And it's fecking tricky. Trickier still with friends and teenagers who understandably don't fully share your ideas. You compromise daily for sanity.
If we are complicit it's unavoidable and shouldn't be a caveat for what we feel is right or wrong. But surely we all agree that a lack of democracy and human rights transgressions are possibly areas where a little hysteria is OK?
If you aren’t comfortable with them taking over then fair enough that’s down to you but there’s plenty of fans who are. I’m a supporter of this football club and want what’s best for the football club and the Qatari’s vision will bring far more success to the club imo.
You’ve got people in here criticising The Athletic for biased reporting and have reservations regarding a Qatari bid, people departmentalising a Qatari state funded bid, and others who are rightly pointing out their human rights violations and lack of inclusivity.
If it is to be the Qatari’s, whether we agree on it or not, we don’t have to become a fan base who turns a blind eye to things, we don’t have to defend them by using ‘whataboutism’ in response to rival fans, and most of all, we don’t have to champion them if going forward, the project from a purely results basis becomes successful.
I do find the criticisms of journalists, from what I’m assuming are ME United fans, of racism laughable though. What a silly morale high ground to take given the attitudes towards LGBTQ+ fans both in Qatar and wider afield.
If it is to be the Qatari’s, whether we agree on it or not, we don’t have to become a fan base who turns a blind eye to things, we don’t have to defend them by using ‘whataboutism’ in response to rival fans, and most of all, we don’t have to champion them if going forward, the project from a purely results basis becomes successful.
I do find the criticisms of journalists, from what I’m assuming are ME United fans, of racism laughable though. What a silly morale high ground to take given the attitudes towards LGBTQ+ fans both in Qatar and wider afield.
Eh?
Putting words into my mouth eh?
Do journos often add filmsy “sources say” to gain traction, abso-fecking-lutely. Does that mean they shouldn’t be trusted? Depends, I’d say always question your sources.
Could this journo have a source at INEOS? Absolutely, and did this source say “Jim wants to put the Manchester back in Manchester United”, maybe, but already we’re in a game of Chinese whispers, so yeah, everyone should be very sceptical of that.
I haven’t said anything about SJR loving the club nor about his plan, as I haven’t a clue. I’ve said I’m interested to hear the actual plans though and not some wishy washy throwaway comment that is meaningless.
I believe a fact reported by reuters and a tonne of other reputable media outlets, that INEOS have entered the bidding process. Nothing more, nothing less.
At the end of the day, the morality of the situation sits with those at the FA, Premier League and whoever else decides if a Qatari bid passes the necessary checks to purchase the club. There’s very little United fans can do about the matter.
No one with enough money to buy us are people you should admire.
Radcliffe's company will continue to pollute the only inhabitable planet within 4 light years of us, Qatar will continue to be autocratic dictators who abuse minorities, women and anyone else they can get away with abusing, whether they buy us or not.
Radcliffe's company will continue to pollute the only inhabitable planet within 4 light years of us, Qatar will continue to be autocratic dictators who abuse minorities, women and anyone else they can get away with abusing, whether they buy us or not.
But what can you do? Stop supporting them? Football should of never got to this point, but the door has well and truly been smashed open, and there's no going back. It's not a working class game anymore.
Hardly we've literally got swarms of people in here that have decided none of the human rights issues matter. Their money is buying silence because people see its benefit so yeah sportswashing.
Competition is never a bad thing in the hospitality industry and if Qatar come in and build a load of hotels they will also build restaurants and other sorts of entertainment, and it becomes a place to visit. Hotel football will only benefit from that. It also has a unique appeal considering its owners and position
Not a single person in Qatar gives a shite what anyone here thinks.
They just hosted the largest sporting event in the world. The people that matter are already onside.
I find it absolutely incredible that you are being painted as the bad guy for pointing out that people are hypocrites for changing their stance and going against their so called principles when there's a whiff that their football club might benefit from the presence of absolute ghouls. Makes me sick to my stomach.
"Blah blah blah, moral relativism, western values, blah blah blah".
I'm no fan of the Glazers or Radcliffe and don't want them in charge of Man Utd either, but an authoritarian, murderous, misogynistic and homophobic state is something else. I don't really care if they participate in Capitalism and buy shares in or own Disney or The Shard. A football club is something else, or at least it's supposed to be. A football club has legions of fans that are demonstrably (just read through this thread) willing to line up and defend or excuse the indefensible. Some things are more important than football. Keep doing what you're doing, mate.
The $60b includes revenues generated by joint ventures. Ineos group generated 18b euros for year end 2021, which isnt contribution to surplus. A reported surplus of 2b euros, which historically 2020 and 2019 averaged 650m euros, and cash holdings of just over 2b.
The financial criticism of the Ineos bid isn't as ill-framed as you suggest.
They'll do what city have done, but bigger and better for redevelopment. These guys have been having a dick waving battle with how big their yachts are for two decades. Now they are doing it with clubs and cities.
Was it ever?
The “no fresh debt” comment is very worrying. So what happens to the existing debt? I’m guessing that stays as a lead weight around the clubs neck?
Doesn't the quote form the Qatari bid basically mean the same thing? In my mind "the bid will be completely debt free" just means they won't fund the bid by adding more debt but it doesn't mean they will clear all debt from the club does it?
2019 included a few hundred million of investments in sport, 2020 was the pandemic.
Forecast are for around 1.8bn /year.
Not too fecking shabby.
The idea of sports washing is one of the most ridiculous concepts I've ever heard. Owning a football club, and, no offence to City, PSG or Newcastle, especially a club the size of United, will do the exact opposite of 'sports washing' by drawing a large spotlight onto their country. For a country like Qatar, with dangourous and powerful enemies nearby, drawing that spotlight is part of their motivation, along with diversifying their interests for the day the gas (or oil in other cases) runs out, and gaining the influence and soft power that owning a club with world wide clout like United provides them with.
This is something people are not talking about. ETH will be out of the door in seconds if they allow players to run the roost like PSG.
It’s not a comment though, so let’s wait for the official information from INEOS.
Who buys the club is unavoidable to us as well because we have no control
but look I was saying that I wasn’t as hysterical not that everyone had to be less hysterical
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