Club Sale | It’s done!

[Rocksy]

I don't care if we win another trophy in my lifetime

Why not get into model train sets or something like that, rather than football, then? That would give you total control over who owned the train set (you), what the owner’s (your) morals are, and you’d never have to worry about winning a trophy.

 

[cyberman]

this is wilful ignorance. Similarly to what is happening with nufc atm, with their legal battles in two continents essentially arguing the PIF isn’t a state instrument in one case, and is in another, the Qatar bid, is state backed. There is no argument that holds any weight and the PL being limp wristed about it changes nothing.

It’s not wilful ignorance. I’m asking a question and am constantly told it’s obvious but when I ask for proof I get nothing back.
Again, I believe we’ll be state backed in some way but I just watched an interview form the money man flat out say he didn’t think we were a good investment but he was listening to his son. That doesn’t scream a big royal family movement to me.
Is there anything to suggest rich people can’t make big investments without the Royal Family being in control? Are they allowed to branch out on their own or are they controlled Putin style?

 

[crossy1686]

You may not give a feck, but I do. Manchester United is not above my personal beliefs,morals and principles. I don't care if we win another trophy in my lifetime but I care if the club is owned by dictators.

Weird and hypocritical stance to take.

 

[enghuei]

Google is your friend. (hint: the one reportedly heading the bid is part of the ruling family)

So are all of 3000’s of Al-Thani in Qatar part of the royal family?

 

[georgipep]

Why not get into model train sets or something like that, rather than football, then? That would give you total control over who owned the train set, what the owner’s (your) morals are, and you’d never have to worry about winning a trophy.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it.

I know you don't care and didn't ask for it, but I still want to suggest you do a mental exercise and try to rank the priorities in your life, on a personal and individual level.

If a football club winning trophies is above your moral principles, that should be telling you something about yourself.
If your moral principles have no conflict with the Qatari rulers, then I guess this entire conversation is pointless as we are diametrically different and opposite.

 

[Chief123]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

£6bn won’t be an issue then. This deal is done.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

I think people are getting confused between an indicative offer and an actual bid, so I believe that Qatar made an indicative offer of four .5 billion and perhaps now that we are in the second round, they’ve now officially five

 

[Spoony]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it.

I know you don't care and didn't ask for it, but I still want to suggest you do a mental exercise and try to rank the priorities in your life, on a personal and individual level.

If a football club winning trophies is above your moral principles, that should be telling you something about yourself.
If your moral principles have no conflict with the Qatari rulers, then I guess this entire conversation is pointless as we are diametrically different and opposite.

Do you think everyone should walk away?

 

[MiamiSpartan]

It’s not wilful ignorance. I’m asking a question and am constantly told it’s obvious but when I ask for proof I get nothing back.
Again, I believe we’ll be state backed in some way but I just watched an interview form the money man flat out say he didn’t think we were a good investment but he was listening to his son. That doesn’t scream a big royal family movement to me.
Is there anything to suggest rich people can’t make big investments without the Royal Family being in control? Are they allowed to branch out on their own or are they controlled Putin style?

Yes, they don't have the money to. Sheikh Hamad, father of Sheikh Jassim is worth £1.2bn per Forbes and the FT (some have argued that Forbes is underestimating that by a factor of 10+, but give no basis for knowing more than Forbes). Jassim chairs the QIB, which has revenue of less than 2bn.

So where is the money coming from? And if Forbes has so vastly underestimated Hamad's wealth, then where did their tens of billions in hidden wealth come from?

Just because someone is a Qatari Sheikh doesn't mean they have a personal fortune of tens of billions lying around. We should absolutely be asking where their money is coming from.

 

[Sly1]

I am old enough to remember the failed takeover by Sky. Back then all hell went loose (both by United and non United fans) because of Sky's owners and the advantage United would have over other clubs. Guess what? Worse owners bought rival clubs and the criticism was timid at best. Not only that but when these clubs became better then we are through unfair means they had the audacity to laugh at our misery. So unless there's a blanket ban on clubs being owned (not just bought) by oligarchs/state on a global scale then I don't give a feck about who owns us. I don't want my club to be running the race with one broken leg and I am certainly mature enough to make a clear distinction between the club and its owners.

Perfectly agree

 

[georgipep]

Do you think everyone should walk away?

I think supporters should oppose potential acquisition of Manchester United by Qatari ruling family with, at minimum, the same severity they opposed the ESL.

I was very much against storming the stadium and using such aggressive tactics back then but it did have an immediate effect and am reluctantly willing to support and participate now.

For everyone who cannot participate in such actions, but is in similar personal situation as myself, I would suggest to use their however-limited platform and demonstrate their opposition of this potential acquisition on twitter and here, on RedCafe.

I find it incredibly concerning what huge proportion of supporters are not only willing to turn a blind eye but are actually excited by the prospect of becoming a play-toy sportswashing project for a dictatorship regime, just because that would mean higher chances of buying people's flavour of the month players and winning trophies.

And if the acquisition takes place, I do think supporters, who share my belief and frustration, should walk away from supporting the club.
I rarely watch any football outside of Manchester United games and I'm likely just not going to watch any football going forward. How would and should others react, I can't say.

 

[Sly1]

let me repeat for the 2657th time in this thread, we're not being bought by the UK government

...And neither is United bought by Qatar government.

 

[sglowrider]

As long as we are owned by a country that treats women and gay people as second class citizens, i will think we have gone from having the worst owners in sport, to losing our soul. Wins will not mean as much, and we will be no better than teams we have spent a decade bitching about.

i assume by your smugness uou don’t give a feck about any of that, yes. And how do you feel about greenwood coming back i wonder (i don’t).

I thought so. All outrage but no real conviction

You will learn in time, life isn't so black & white as it appears in your life.

Come back when you have grown up a bit.

 

[georgipep]

So are all of 3000’s of Al-Thani in Qatar part of the royal family?

I suppose in your view being related to the ruler of the country has nothing to do with the posts this individual has taken, nor his father.

In my view, they are strongly correlated. There are plenty of materials online, from very reputable sources, that showcase the connections of the potential bidder and the ruling family.

There are also plenty of materials that describe the long list of reasons why Manchester United should not be owned by a member of a dictatorship regime.

 

[georgipep]

I thought so. Virtue signaller.

You will learn in time, life isn't so black & white as it appears in your life.

Come back when you have grown up a bit.

You told him...

 

[Rightnr]

The pope isn't a Christian he's a Catholic and secondly the pope didn't write / has no authority over the Biblical / Tanakh doctrine which counts homosexuality as a sin.

What an absolute shambles of a post

 

[Vapor trail]

What an absolute shambles of a post

Something I missed ? There's fundamental differences between Catholicism and Christianity.

 

[Rightnr]

Something I missed ? There's fundamental differences between Catholicism and Christianity.

Edit: I'll be generous, Google it...

 

[Spoony]

I think supporters should oppose potential acquisition of Manchester United by Qatari ruling family with, at minimum, the same severity they opposed the ESL.

I was very much against storming the stadium and using such aggressive tactics back then but it did have an immediate effect and am reluctantly willing to support and participate now.

For everyone who cannot participate in such actions, but is in similar personal situation as myself, I would suggest to use their however-limited platform and demonstrate their opposition of this potential acquisition on twitter and here, on RedCafe.

I find it incredibly concerning what huge proportion of supporters are not only willing to turn a blind eye but are actually excited by the prospect of becoming a play-toy sportswashing project for a dictatorship regime, just because that would mean higher chances of buying people's flavour of the month players and winning trophies.

And if the acquisition takes place, I do think supporters, who share my belief and frustration, should walk away from supporting the club.
I rarely watch any football outside of Manchester United games and I'm likely just not going to watch any football going forward. How would and should others react, I can't say.

From what I've gathered and reading between the lines, most fans, especially the ones around here(Manchester) and the likes on Streford Paddock aren't passionately opposed to the Qataris, they just want to see the back of the Glazers rather than a gleeful acceptance of the club's new found wealth. Anyhow it's really unfair to expect fans to walk away from something they're intrinsically linked to. Win, lose or draw I'm sure most fans like myself find it cathartic. Football fans seem to be the only ones expected to show a high moral ground. It's not nice, I dislike like the treatment of workers in the gulf but I just can't walk away from the game.

 

[DOTA]

Christian sectarianism feels an unlikely addition to this thread.

 

[sglowrider]

You told him...

I wouldn't get too vested in anything united at this point in time -- since you will be checking out in a couple of months or so you claim.

 

[georgipep]

From what I've gathered and reading between the lines, most fans, especially the ones around here(Manchester) and the likes on Streford Paddock aren't passionately opposed to the Qataris, they just want to see the back of the Glazers rather than a gleeful acceptance of the club's new found wealth. Anyhow it's really unfair to expect fans to walk away from something they're intrinsically linked to. Win, lose or draw I'm sure most fans like myself find it cathartic. Football fans seem to be the only ones expected to show a high moral ground. It's not nice, I dislike like the treatment of workers in the gulf but I just can't walk away from the game.

I agree that most fans aren't passionately opposed, that's what I observed at the game vs. Leicester.

As for the rest, I don't know if it is fair or not. I find it deeply concerning that people can put trophies won by a football club above supporting fellow humans' basic human rights.
There are things that are more important than Manchester United. Being able to live with myself and my choices is one of them.

 

[Telsim]

Wasn't there a thread for this kind of shit? The tweet-only thread is dead, so I have to come here and scroll through a dozen pages of philosophy and ethics to catch up on the latest albeit dubious information regarding the sale.

 

[georgipep]

https://media.tenor.com/K5plZZhM7K4AAAAM/the-joker-heath-ledger.gif

Just a very energetic case of whataboutism...

 

[horsechoker]

Does Jim Ratcliffe shit in the woods?

 

[georgipep]

I wouldn't get too vested in anything united at this point in time -- since you will be checking out in a couple of months or so you claim.

Thanks for the advice. I hope your strong confidence in this deal going through proves false.

 

[georgipep]

Does Jim Ratcliffe shit in the woods?

Not on the Sabbath.

 

[Vapor trail]

Edit: I'll be generous, Google it...

It doesn't need to be Googled there are fundamental differences between a Christian and Catholic. Almost to the extent that they contradict one another. My perspective is based broadly from the theology however not so much the status. So I can understand the generalisation.

 

[sglowrider]

Thanks for the advice. I hope your strong confidence in this deal going through proves false.

You are in a pickle aren't you? Dictator nation or greenwashing, racist hiring fracker brexiteer.

 

[Blood Mage]

5 billion from a supposedly non-state backed private businessman... yeah sure.

 

[devilish]

I thought so. All outrage but no real conviction

You will learn in time, life isn't so black & white as it appears in your life.

Come back when you have grown up a bit.

You couldn't have said it better

 

[alexthelion]

Yeah that's my thinking too probably the QIA.

But what I'm saying if it isn't state backed and if it isn't coming from an investment fund and if it really is a private bid then it's possible Sheikh Jassim and his father are borrowing the money.

Aren't they supposed to have a lot more money than Forbes have stated?

Apparently, it's very difficult to get a handle on just how rich people in ME really are.

 

[AlPistacho]

The full interview on Bloomberg with HBJ is now available on YouTube. It’s 30 minutes, to understand him, his motives, etc you really need to watch the whole thing. But the key parts are his answer about football clubs, his views on the World Cup plus at the end where he talks about what he wants to leave behind,

 

[DOTA]

It doesn't need to be Googled there are fundamental differences between a Christian and Catholic. Almost to the extent that they contradict one another. My perspective is based broadly from the theology however not so much the status. So I can understand the generalisation.

Very normal and cool stuff this.

 

[Tarrou]

It’s not wilful ignorance. I’m asking a question and am constantly told it’s obvious but when I ask for proof I get nothing back.
Again, I believe we’ll be state backed in some way but I just watched an interview form the money man flat out say he didn’t think we were a good investment but he was listening to his son. That doesn’t scream a big royal family movement to me.
Is there anything to suggest rich people can’t make big investments without the Royal Family being in control? Are they allowed to branch out on their own or are they controlled Putin style?

Nobody can provide proof given that Qatar need to hide this themselves. Surely you know this?

I don't think anyone in Qatar has enough private wealth to buy United. And the guy who is supposedly buying us falls into that category too.

It's not like you can make $10bn+ in private wealth in Qatar without people knowing how you made it, the country is tiny.

 

[Spoony]

I agree that most fans aren't passionately opposed, that's what I observed at the game vs. Leicester.

As for the rest, I don't know if it is fair or not. I find it deeply concerning that people can put trophies won by a football club above supporting fellow humans' basic human rights.
There are things that are more important than Manchester United. Being able to live with myself and my choices is one of them.

I've talked to people who've suffered in the Gulf but most have bizarrely accepted the issues and their treatment. I find it disgusting, it's been happening for decades suppose if you can, walk away.

 

[JagUTD]

Ok. I respect you for then when that happens. Assume you will check out of the Caf then also?

It's not called nomoralscaf though?

 

[sullydnl]

I thought so. All outrage but no real conviction

You will learn in time, life isn't so black & white as it appears in your life.

Come back when you have grown up a bit.

You sound about as grown-up as a 14 year old edgelord virgin.

 

[SirAF]

It doesn't need to be Googled there are fundamental differences between a Christian and Catholic. Almost to the extent that they contradict one another. My perspective is based broadly from the theology however not so much the status. So I can understand the generalisation.

Okay, I’ll bite.

A Catholic IS a Christian. So is a Protestant. The main difference is that Catholicism emphasise symbolism to a larger degree than Protestantism.

This is Primary School stuff ffs!

 

[cyberman]

Nobody can provide proof given that Qatar need to hide this themselves. Surely you know this?

I don't think anyone in Qatar has enough private wealth to buy United. And the guy who is supposedly buying us falls into that category too.

It's not like you can make $10bn+ in private wealth in Qatar without people knowing how you made it, the country is tiny.

Surely there’s other examples then? Even rumours of disgustingly elite billionaires from Qatar needing the ok to spend their money?
I’m pretty sure people can make that money especially with positions the father (and money man) of the probable new owners son held?
I’m 100 percent sure there’s corrupt billionaires out there who simply do not reveal their net worth and I can’t see why they would to be honest.
Again I think we’d be bought by money that has their source from the state but I’m starting to believe we won’t actually be state owned