Club Sale | It’s done!

[Licha-Vidic]

I might be wrong but my thinking is,

1. The main difference between the two bids is Valuation and Money.

SJR values the club higher but has/will pay less money especially now. The effect of 2 Glazers staying is 100% he doesn't have the total funds to pay everything now. If he had the Glazers would have moved long time ago. SJR banks on the hope the club will be able to extract funds and be able to pay the remaining Glazers after few years ( funds from the club, for sure he won't use his own funds - he can use his own funds now if he thought in that line.) So for Glazers to accept SJR offer means they believe the club will be able to pay them off in few years time. In short this is a offer of person who values your business at higher amount but wants to pay little amount now and make the business generate future cash flows to be able to pay off the other Equity.

Jassim, values the club at present value and will pay at present date the full amount. And in his calculations he has factored in the debt amount and all other investors. In shorts this is a business person buying the good and the bad of a business at present day, he has no future takeover projections. It's now now for them.

It's truly on Glazers hands now. What do they want? That's what matters

 

[Berbaclass]

they must have been encouraged to go back in again with an offer that would be accepted. Otherwise they look ridiculous and not serious.

If I was a betting man I’d put money on Qatar at this stage

Yeah it would be utterly pointless for them to do otherwise

 

[cyberman]

Tweet

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Jamie seems to be saying clearing the debt is a separate pot here?

 

[Barthez]

That extra £500 million will surely seal the deal.

 

[Rojofiam]

Yes

I can't believe that you believe those idiots in their twitter spaces, etc. had any knowledge of this. You are either the most gullible poster in this thread or you just believe what you want to believe.

 

[Loony BoB]

Didn’t the tweets about Jassim make a new bid first start coming from random Twitter accounts that we all (logically) discredited.

A twitter account getting things right before it's actually fact is basically the equivalent of a turtle picking the winner of the world cup. If enough turtles pick at random, eventually one of them will be guaranteed to be correct.

It's logical to discredit a twitter account, but it's illogical to say none of the many twitter accounts will say something that eventually turns out to be true.

 

[prateik]

Raine are the ones who advise the Glazers & accept the bids (on behalf of the glazers of course) so whatever one presents the best deal for the club and the glazers are the ones that Raine would suggest the Glazers accept. Hence why we see reports of Jassim promising to invest in the areas around the club and clear the debt

I thought those promises were for PR/getting the fans on board..
Why would Raine advise the Glazers to accept a bid that potentially gives them several hundred million less but invests more in a club they no longer have any stake in?

Not being a dick.. genuinely dont understand.. The glazers will surely sell to the bidder who offers them the best deal..

 

[Berbaclass]

I can't believe that you believe those idiots in their twitter spaces, etc. had any knowledge of this. You are either the most gullible poster in this thread or you just believe what you want to believe.

Were they right or wrong?

 

[Gandalf]

Cause given no one is gonna go out and base any important decisions on our takes, we can be prone to exaggeration? Have you ever read a transfer thread?

No
Yes

 

[mu4c_20le]

they must have been encouraged to go back in again with an offer that would be accepted. Otherwise they look ridiculous and not serious.

If I was a betting man I’d put money on Qatar at this stage

They won't be the only ones to look stupid at this stage

 

[AlPistacho]

A twitter account getting things right before it's actually fact is basically the equivalent of a turtle picking the winner of the world cup. If enough turtles pick at random, eventually one of them will be guaranteed to be correct.

It's logical to discredit a twitter account, but it's illogical to say none of the many twitter accounts will say something that eventually turns out to be true.

It’s wise to see which one said the thing that most closely matches what is now being reported and then see that that account has said in the past.

 

[Nick7]

That's a large chunk of their 'wealth' tied up in a business they have no say over, effectively.

Aye that’s what investments are. I’d assume the 20% would have call and put options on them essentially meaning the glazers are guaranteed a certain price payout.

 

[Pexbo]

I will say - it does seem weird SJR has offered the Glazers a chance to stay, offering 6 billion and yet the Glazers STILL wanted to wait for SJ

Consider the shocking possibility that Avram and Joel’s desire to stay was actually just a negotiating tactic so all the siblings weren’t known to be desperate for a sale.

Now with that context consider SJR’s bid and the complications it creates between the siblings. If Avram and Joel are just as keen for their payday as the others how do they distribute their shares being sold?

Are Avram and Joel stuck at the club because their bluff was called?

Or do all of the Glazers need to agree to sell a percentage of their shares and leave a percentage at risk on the table?

If it’s the latter, no single Glazer shareholder would hold enough shares to have any influence. If it’s the former Avram and Joel have got the shit end of the stick and their shares are left on the table in control of someone else and they won’t be getting dividends anymore either.


It’s going to be SJ because his is the cleanest offer. Everyone gets a payday, nobody leaves their capital at risk.

 

[LordSpud]

I thought those promises were for PR/getting the fans on board..
Why would Raine advise the Glazers to accept a bid that potentially gives them several hundred million less but invests more in a club they no longer have any stake in?

Not being a dick.. genuinely dont understand.. The glazers will surely sell to the bidder who offers them the best deal..

We don't fully know what both parties are offering as a whole package to be honest.

 

[red thru&thru]

I don't believe the latest reports about Sheikh Jassim's bid. Remember, the Credit Suisse issues mean he can't afford the club!

 

[Artorias]

That extra £500 million will surely seal the deal.

Let's hope so.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

An extra half billion is f*ck all to each of the Glazers. Although could probably get Darcie a new boob job.

 

[Berbaclass]

Ratcliffe bid is higher because he is staggering payments and not paying off debt.

 

[stw2022]

Aye that’s what investments are. I’d assume the 20% would have call and put options on them essentially meaning the glazers are guaranteed a certain price payout.

But they're not investors though, primarily. They're active businessmen used to holding controlling stakes. I don't see them turning into 'mere' passive investors in someone else's business. They could have gone down that road yonks ago.

 

[M4YON]

Jamie seems to be saying clearing the debt is a separate pot here?

But the Guardian understands that Sheikh Jassim’s intent on becoming United’s next owner moved him to increase his price by around £500m while clearing the debt and creating a fund solely for the club and surrounding community as he seeks to become the Glazers’ preferred bidder.

Yes it would appear they are saying that Jassim has bid £5.5 Billion for the club an increase of 500m from the previous 5 billion bid and will also wipe the club's debt and invest in the surrounding areas.

 

[mu4c_20le]

That extra £500 million will surely seal the deal.

The Glazers didn't get to where they are by being compromisers though

 

[DOTA]

An extra half billion is f*ck all to each of the Glazers. Although could probably get Darcie a new boob job.

Do we have reason to believe they have been neglected?

 

[dpansheth]

I might be wrong but my thinking is,

1. The main difference between the two bids is Valuation and Money.

SJR values the club higher but has/will pay less money especially now. The effect of 2 Glazers staying is 100% he doesn't have the total funds to pay everything now. If he had the Glazers would have moved long time ago. SJR banks on the hope the club will be able to extract funds and be able to pay the remaining Glazers after few years ( funds from the club, for sure he won't use his own funds - he can use his own funds now if he thought in that line.) So for Glazers to accept SJR offer means they believe the club will be able to pay them off in few years time. In short this is a offer of person who values your business at higher amount but wants to pay little amount now and make the business generate future cash flows to be able to pay off the other Equity.

Jassim, values the club at present value and will pay at present date the full amount. And in his calculations he has factored in the debt amount and all other investors. In shorts this is a business person buying the good and the bad of a business at present day, he has no future takeover projections. It's now now for them.

It's truly on Glazers hands now. What do they want? That's what matters

If I can give you a like I’d.

 

[redNATION]

The Glazers don't own 100% he cannot bid for 100% of the club.

Not sure why people cannot get this

Yes he can, as a takeover offer to all shareholders. There’s technical legal reasons why you’d structure it like that but won’t bore with details

 

[Dobba]

The Housewives' Favourite Kaveh is on SSN saying the bid went in this morning.

 

[VP89]

I imagine he has a credit line. It’s surely not a battle of loose change, if it needs to be paid upfront his creditors will pay it upfront.

Quite sure one cant use a credit line to buy football clubs. There must be some structured approach to it.
Think one of the credible tweets from today implied Jassim's payment is upfront whereas Ratcliff was for control now and then purchase toward 100% in the future.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

they must have been encouraged to go back in again with an offer that would be accepted. Otherwise they look ridiculous and not serious.

If I was a betting man I’d put money on Qatar at this stage

No idea tbh. There's been so much nonsense reported I don't know what to believe.

I still want Qatar to lose but whichever way it goes I just want it over now. It's just getting ridiculous

 

[DOTA]

The Housewives' Favourite Kaveh is on SSN saying the bid went in this morning.

Tie or open collar?

 

[Spoony]

No idea tbh. There's been so much nonsense reported I don't know what to believe.

I still want Qatar to lose but whichever way it goes I just want it over now. It's just getting ridiculous

 

[Gandalf]

An extra half billion is f*ck all to each of the Glazers. Although could probably get Darcie a new boob job.

None of them has anywhere close to half a billion personally right now, most of their wealth is tied up in this club and an increased offer that means close to 100 million extra for each of them would be very tempting.

 

[Rojofiam]

Were they right or wrong?

Yeah, the guy that said the Glazers were in Doha and posted emojis of Qatar flags and handshakes 2 weeks ago, who is now claiming that Jassim's offer is close to 8 billion, yeah...I'm sure that guy was correct.

Anyways, keep "feasting" whilst I stay "in the mud", to use your words...I'll let you know that I had a huge smile on my face when I read the articles an hour ago, because there's absolutely nothing in there that should scare Ineos and Ratcliffe whilst Qatar's biggest mouthpiece himself says that this is a take it or leave it offer...and even if it was a remotely threatening offer for Ratcliffe, they can just up it too. If Ratcliffe is offering more money for 51% you really believe he can't outbid the Qataris for 69% too? The only reason he's going for 50.1% is that they believe that Joel and Avram don't want to sell.

Also, why do you think Qatar are feeding info to the media that they might buy Spurs if United doesn't work out? Why would they leak something like that unless they weren't too confident in themselves and wanted to get on the side of the fans? After all, that's all they've been doing in the last 6 months with their PR pieces.

Maybe your beloved human rights abusing cnut of a sheikh really lost a shit ton of money with Credit Suisse and he's gonna get beaten by "broke" and "unserious" Ratcliffe.

 

[Dobba]

Tie or open collar?

He's phoning in from home, so he's probably gone full three-piece suit with top hat.

 

[AlPistacho]

I can't believe that you believe those idiots in their twitter spaces, etc. had any knowledge of this. You are either the most gullible poster in this thread or you just believe what you want to believe.

Don’t think anyone believes “those idiots” but to completely rule out the possibility that at least one unfamous Twitter account might know more than journalist on this issue is very gullible.

Just to show you one possibility. How many cousins does Jassim have? Probably in the dozens, then you add 2nd and 3rd cousins. Then you consider how close families are in the ME.

It’s really not far fetched. This isn’t the CIA and Twitter accounts talking about having access to secret files.

 

[Spoony]

Tie or open collar?

I bet he's got a hairy chest proper style.

 

[Berbaclass]

Yeah, the guy that said the Glazers were in Doha and posted emojis of Qatar flags and handshakes 2 weeks ago, who is now claiming that Jassim's offer is close to 8 billion, yeah...I'm sure that guy was correct.

Anyways, keep "feasting" whilst I stay "in the mud", to use your words...I'll let you know that I had a huge smile on my face when I read the articles an hour ago, because there's absolutely nothing in there that should scare Ineos and Ratcliffe whilst Qatar's biggest mouthpiece himself says that this is a take it or leave it offer...and even if it was a remotely threatening offer for Ratcliffe, they can just up it too. If Ratcliffe is offering more money for 51% you really believe he can't outbid the Qataris for 69% too? The only reason he's going for 50.1% is that they believe that Joel and Avram don't want to sell.

Also, why do you think Qatar are feeding info to the media that they might buy Spurs if United doesn't work out? Why would they leak something like that unless they weren't too confident in themselves and wanted to get on the side of the fans? After all, that's all they've been doing in the last 6 months with their PR pieces.

Maybe your beloved human rights abusing cnut of a sheikh really lost a shit ton of money with Credit Suisse and he's gonna get beaten by "broke" and "unserious" Ratcliffe.

I posted this two days ago

No, was in a space. He said it.

If he's right he said Keegan will brief either tomorrow night or the night after. Saying Qatar has upped their bid.

Fairly accurate to be honest despite your protestation.

 

[Spoony]

Yeah, the guy that said the Glazers were in Doha and posted emojis of Qatar flags and handshakes 2 weeks ago, who is now claiming that Jassim's offer is close to 8 billion, yeah...I'm sure that guy was correct.

Anyways, keep "feasting" whilst I stay "in the mud", to use your words...I'll let you know that I had a huge smile on my face when I read the articles an hour ago, because there's absolutely nothing in there that should scare Ineos and Ratcliffe whilst Qatar's biggest mouthpiece himself says that this is a take it or leave it offer...and even if it was a remotely threatening offer for Ratcliffe, they can just up it too. If Ratcliffe is offering more money for 51% you really believe he can't outbid the Qataris for 69% too? The only reason he's going for 50.1% is that they believe that Joel and Avram don't want to sell.

Also, why do you think Qatar are feeding info to the media that they might buy Spurs if United doesn't work out? Why would they leak something like that unless they weren't too confident in themselves and wanted to get on the side of the fans? After all, that's all they've been doing in the last 6 months with their PR pieces.

Maybe your beloved human rights abusing cnut of a sheikh really lost a shit ton of money with Credit Suisse and he's gonna get beaten by "broke" and "unserious" Ratcliffe.

They're just putting pressure on the Glaziers. It's tedious brinkmanship.

 

[monkfish]

Hoping and praying Sir Jim gets the club, don't want my club in the hands of a foreign state. We don't need a sugar daddy, we make enough money on our own.

 

[George The Best]

Don't fancy their chances much if this is true.

It might value the club lower than INEOS but all that matters is what is he bidding for the Glazer’s shares. Glazer’s don’t care about the value of the club, all they care about is the best price for their shares.

 

[TheLoveless]

Yes. What I'm saying is (sorry if I worded it weirdly) that Ratcliffe can also offer the same valuation as his 50.1% bid with a 69% bid if it came to that. The only reason he hasn't (or maybe he has) is that they think Joel and Avram want to stay. Now, if for some reason they were tempted by this offer from Qatar (would be something we don't know about yet, because this evening's news is nothing to be tempted by as Ratcliffe's offer is still better), then Ratcliffe can match it or better it easily.

Ok apologies if I don’t understand, to be fair I haven’t followed your reasoning before. The bids are per share, not for x%. When they compare bids they presumably mean 100% of the shares in all bids. I don’t understand why it would matter if he offers to buy 69% or 50.1% from a valuation perspective.

Suppose there are 1000 shares in Manchester United.

Suppose Ratcliffes bid is £1 per share and for either 50.1% or 69% ownership.

Now suppose Qatar has bid £1.25 per share and they want a 100% takeover. In this scenario Glazers receives £1.25 x 690 (69% of 1000 shares) from Qatar and from Ratcliffe they receive £1 x 690 or 501 shares.

Again, I am sorry if I am not following.

If there’s been a new bid from Qatar the siblings who wants to sell needs to decide if this new offer is too good to choose Ratcliffe and that Avram and Joel needs to sell as well.

 

[Posh Red]

A twitter account getting things right before it's actually fact is basically the equivalent of a turtle picking the winner of the world cup. If enough turtles pick at random, eventually one of them will be guaranteed to be correct.

It's logical to discredit a twitter account, but it's illogical to say none of the many twitter accounts will say something that eventually turns out to be true.

It’s like a real life incarnation of the monkey/typewriter analogy