I’d say 90% of the outrage is devastation at the Qatari bid failing channelled into a more socially acceptable LUHG brand of moaning.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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Yep. They only said no new debt and INEOS would take on the debt to buy United rather than leveraging more debt on United.
It’s becoming apparent the biggest golf emerging in the Utd fan base is not Ineos vs SJ bid but actually people who don’t mind the Glazers staying on vs a full sale.
I’m bewildered that there are fans that are happy for the Glazers to stay. Two of them were bad enough but all of them?
Im still not understanding how they benefit from this? Are they now going to be investing in the club along with SJR?
What is the benefit for them to stay? I can only think that somehow they make more money, but how?
I’m bewildered that there are fans that are happy for the Glazers to stay. Two of them were bad enough but all of them?
Im still not understanding how they benefit from this? Are they now going to be investing in the club along with SJR?
What is the benefit for them to stay? I can only think that somehow they make more money, but how?
For me it's Glazers out, no ifs ands or buts. I don't care if it's ineos, Qatar or the man on the moon, I'm against anyone taking over United if they are retaining the Glazers.
Glazers Out
Glazers Out
Hehe. Sure it is…
I mean, that’s how Qatari stans want the divide perceived. Much more socially acceptable way to crave a gulf state sugar daddy.
This bit seems to be completely lost on those who are keen on Brexit Jim. We then get the arguments that debt is ok and the Glazers aren’t really that bad of owners.Like you said INEOS is already servicing £8bn debt, will they nearly double their debt and expect no component of that being serviced by United?
Almost certainly. People cite Ineos's revenues and Ratcliffe's estimated net worth and conflate them both for being the same as money they have available.
After paying to sustain itself Ineos last year made £474m. Two years ago it lost £200m. Big, impressive numbers. But they haven't got billions sat in the bank to buy a football club. Borrowing is as close to guaranteed as you can get.
That is a good read. Annoying though. The bit about the Glazers causing paralysis at the club by being bad/cautious business men rings very true.
If you're holding on to a small stake in the club because you think the value will sky rocket in the next few years - why are you selling the club at all?
And this, together with keeping the Glazers, is still the preferred solution for some?
So if I understand the Swedish guy post, the Glazers are hanging around for an additional £780m?
The club is in a shitty situation, new money is needed and they dont have it
They think it will sky rocket due to the investment they're not willing or able to provide.
We've heard the "no money" claim for years and it's never been true
Isn't it mainly based on estimated rights values that would happen automatically?
Yeah and there is no proof SJR will invest enormous money straight away. He could chill for 2-3 years, buy the Glazers out for a standard amount and then start investing. The clubs value will not sky rocket in a couple of years.
Like what. they take no notice.
Of course it is. Look at our stadium, training facilities, etc. Look at our cash flow development over the past 5 years. Look at the costs of our debt or the structure of the debt.
Not the best scenario and personally would've preferred all 6 siblings gone.
If we assume SJR will want at least 51% that would leave the 6 around 3% each but more importantly no control of the club.
If we assume SJR will want at least 51% that would leave the 6 around 3% each but more importantly no control of the club.
I've enjoyed reading your posts in this thread.
I've seen posts suggesting that the current debt has change of ownership clauses, that in the event of a sale these debts become payable immediately. Would this be factored into the purchase and then moved to Ineos effectively leaving us debt free? Or would the Glazers have to pay this out when they sell their shares?
People who support Ineos are supporting, at best, keeping the status quo. Keep the glazers, keep the debt, minimal investment while the long term Glazer transactions are still ongoing.
And at the very end of that road we get an owner with an ever lengthening track record of failing to improve their sports teams.
And at the very end of that road we get an owner with an ever lengthening track record of failing to improve their sports teams.
Starting today!
stw2022 said:
Exactly this. Take a loan to buy the initial controlling stake. Take a loan to buyout glazers later on (no idea when that is). Take a loan to build new stadium/renovate Old Trafford.
Like you said INEOS is already servicing £8bn debt, will they nearly double their debt and expect no component of that being serviced by United?
This!
This!
This!
When a businessman who has a past history of broken promises and lies tap dance around the key question regarding future ownership then any financial sane person should be deeply concerned about the clubs future. It’s staggering that this question isn’t highlighted more when we’re dealing with a person without scruples.
Literally there’s nothing Brexit Jim has said that he will do anything besides making the club British again. He’s shown he is happy for the club that he owns to stagnate.
No I can't see the difference because there is no difference apart from the one you invented.
You can't pick and choose morals to live by when it suits you and dismiss them when they don't. People either live by their morals or they don't, you can't be half in and half out.
You say you would love if the world was fair but it is not. It's why people overlook what happens in Qatar, because they know the world is not fair and it's out of their control. They just want to enjoy their club. Just like they do with iphones, sportswear and everything else that's questionable. Doesn't mean they support it or that they're "The dumbest person in every room they go in" It's a very childish attitude to take.
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Seriously?
Debt is not good. Debt is normal and nothing to be scared of in business.
It’s still a far better proposition than Elliot or Carlyle, or the Glazers in control by themselves.Brexit Jim + 6 glazers is surely the worst possible outcome available
As I said earlier (probably 500 pages into this thread), this is the level of gullible Ratcliff wants the fans to be.
Yes we did mate.
And here we are 18 years later still protesting and the club have debt.
And still after this, some supporters are open to new owners that wont "add to the debt" and not pledge to do anything. Mind boggling.
What makes you think Ratcliffe is any better? History suggests that he is no better than what Glazers are doing right now.
All you need to do is get someone to meet the asking price.
Leeches are mostly quite harmless.
I'm not continuing your analogy, just being a dork.
At least we’ve got something to look forward to over the summer as well as transfers now.
It’s pretty boring when there’s just muppeting going on for a solid two months. Now we’ll have this saga to look forward to also.
It’s pretty boring when there’s just muppeting going on for a solid two months. Now we’ll have this saga to look forward to also.
In a surprise turn of events, the Glazers are buying INEOS.
You are still thinking about this as a business venture. It’s not that simple.
That is what we have to hope for. That for Brexit Jim and INEOS as a capitalist enterprise that this is not just a business venture but something he wants to have a legacy over.
Spawn of the Glazers.
I don't think Sir Jim has the power to ever buy these leeches out. They are here for the long haul.
Equal partners next I imagine.
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