Club Sale | It’s done!

[Woziak]

How do you know all this stuff? Are you involved with the bids?

All of the speculation is just that and no one truly knows the actual numbers, that’s why there are NDA’s however what we do know is they haven’t sold yet have they and guess what no one has offered them £6 billion pounds yet either, it makes no difference to any fan what someone pays for the club, but it’s now been proven across multiple platforms in multiple media outlets that the Glazers , yes all 6 of them want, wait for it ?

Six Billion Pounds, not for the club, not for future stadium investments, not for the minority share holders as one bid doesn’t involve them whatsoever but all six billion pounds for their greedy selves. I don’t have to be involved in the bid to know that because the club remains unsold and the narrative continues;

“The Glazers remain determined sellers for the right price which is £6bn,”
they’ve been pretty clear about that for the last 9 months, so don’t shoot messenger, just accept that until that figure gets met, fans like me will try and show a reasonable hypothesis on why it’s not happened and fans like you will do what so many do on this thread offer an instant condescending post which took 30 seconds to think about and then for maybe an additional 30 seconds, feel much better about themselves because the sale process has frustrated you as much as it frustrates another 400 million worldwide fans.

It’s ok to vent, all united fans feel your pain we’ve had 18 years of pain through the ownership of Goblins, so it’s ok.

 

[Woziak]

Its made up

Pretty much agree, why would he favour a regime that will probably restrict his increasing power within the club. He will be given players that he might not want, Gallacticos with huge egos that upset the squad harmony, ETH seems like a coach that would never work for PSG or City where there is too much interference behind the scenes?

 

[Pickle85]

All of the speculation is just that and no one truly knows the actual numbers, that’s why there are NDA’s however what we do know is they haven’t sold yet have they and guess what no one has offered them £6 billion pounds yet either, it makes no difference to any fan what someone pays for the club, but it’s now been proven across multiple platforms in multiple media outlets that the Glazers , yes all 6 of them want, wait for it ?

Six Billion Pounds, not for the club, not for future stadium investments, not for the minority share holders as one bid doesn’t involve them whatsoever but all six billion pounds for their greedy selves. I don’t have to be involved in the bid to know that because the club remains unsold and the narrative continues;

“The Glazers remain determined sellers for the right price which is £6bn,”
they’ve been pretty clear about that for the last 9 months, so don’t shoot messenger, just accept that until that figure gets met, fans like me will try and show a reasonable hypothesis on why it’s not happened and fans like you will do what so many do on this thread offer an instant condescending post which took 30 seconds to think about and then for maybe an additional 30 seconds, feel much better about themselves because the sale process has frustrated you as much as it frustrates another 400 million worldwide fans.

It’s ok to vent, all united fans feel your pain we’ve had 18 years of pain through the ownership of Goblins, so it’s ok.

Wow, calm down buddy, I just asked a question. It's just that all your posts are framed as if what you say is confirmed truth as opposed to speculation, which is how fake news starts to flourish. You could have just said 'I don't know, I was just speculating', or better than that have framed your original post in a way that made it clear that what you were saying was speculation and not fact.

 

[Pes6Monster]

That is actually a very intresting post. The part of United being a bigger brand than Qatar was eye-opening in a way.

It's precisely why I think Qatar will win, but only after the Glazers have truly taken them to the cleaners. Qatar need a brand like United to sell its regime.

The Glazers taking Qatar to said cleaners is actually good for Qatar. Expect many press utterances claiming Qatar (through their plant Jassim, of course) are 'fed up' and 'threatening to walk away'. They are not and never will.

My guess is Qatar will eventually stump up about eight billion, before clearing the debt, because Jassim 'loves the club so much' and 'will do whatever it takes' to 'make United great again'.

This will work on supporters who, supposedly traumatised by the threat of continued Glazer command, will embrace Qatar (through their plant Jassim, of course) as some form of liberator.

We can already see supporters own to this process on these pages, calling shareholders who facilitate themselves 'heroes' for simply wanting more cash.

Deeply depressing, but there it is.

Where does this come from? Haven't seen any quotes that say Erik favours Qatar.

An above poster who was admittedly speculating. Neither they or me said it was any certainty, as none of us are.

 

[spwd]

That's just a bad photo of her admittedly and not taken in her hey day.

That's exactly what I see when I think of her but each to their own.

 

[Nani Nana]

Sorry but Utd is not worth £6bn

Would say 4.5 at best

 

[Woziak]

Wow, calm down buddy, I just asked a question. It's just that all your posts are framed as if what you say is confirmed truth as opposed to speculation, which is how fake news starts to flourish. You could have just said 'I don't know, I was just speculating', or better than that have framed your original post in a way that made it clear that what you were saying was speculation and not fact.

This dance has been going around now for 4 months, Tom the Journalist, a well respected straight up united fan and excellent financial reporter said exactly the same about the actual bid, 3 months ago and he keeps repeating this now, others with hugely credible sources said the same the bid required for the Glazers to leave was £6bn and the club debt would be taken from that, in some reports it seems that this was the case and and the goalposts were moved again by the Glazers, but this is just more rumours, speculation, that bid has likely not been made but instead a bid of between £5.1 and 5.3bn, again this is subjective as there is no concrete information, my point is so many fans, me included initially thought the £6bn estimation was for the whole 100% of the club, many journalists did too, however multiple credible sources now have said, that’s not the case, the Six Sibling’s want £6bn for them to leave and relinquish control, some journalists thought it was $6bn but that’s already been debunked as that’s been offered so they went back to source and found out it’s £6bn - the club Debt which is $7.7bn - $1.2bn or $6.5bn!

Now the club debt has to be paid off because it was a loan taken out to buy the club in 2005, over a 20 year period by Malcolm Glazer, when he died the family inherited the assets and the debts.

The £535m which is the same as in 2005 must be paid before handover of power and delisting the club from the stock market, the addition amortised transfer debts of £300m should be paid but do not have to be as new owners can negotiate with the clubs and assure them that they will continued to fulfil the clubs contractual obligations. The credit card agreement from Bank of America for £200-300m will also have to be paid off as this is a debt agreed and guaranteed by the Glazers, so you could assume anything from £750m To £1.1bn must be deducted from any agreed buyout between the Glazer, Raine Group and SJ or INEOS( as we now know Ineos can not buy the club without buying out minority shareholders too!) so debt will become a factor for INEOS bid going forward.

What we do know, is the club will not be sold unless someone bids £6bn for the Glazers shares or the Glazers are willing to accept less than £6bn but more than £5bn?

 

[Pexbo]

Sorry but Utd is not worth £6bn

Would say 4.5 at best

Interesting, could you give us a granular breakdown on how you came to that?

 

[Nani Nana]

Interesting, could you give us a granular breakdown on how you came to that?

PSG are valued at €3bn, there is no way Utd is worth twice that amount

 

[Acquire Me]

PSG are valued at €3bn, there is no way Utd is worth twice that amount

Oh wow. You don’t think a club with the stature of Manchester United would be worth twice the amount of PSG? You see, it’s not only about revenue and assets when you go after one of the or maybe the biggest football in the world.

 

[Woziak]

Interesting, could you give us a granular breakdown on how you came to that?

Well based on last year accounts, Forbes valued united at $6.00bn or £4.8bn, where revenue was reported at £583m with huge losses so if revenue increased 10% and losses improved too, it’s fair to say that the club is worth maybe $6.5bn or £5.2bn?

Maybe not surprisingly, that’s what the bids are rumoured to be ?


https://www.forbes.com/teams/manchester-united/?sh=20bc26713f94

 

[Woziak]

Oh wow. You don’t think a club with the stature of Manchester United would be worth twice the amount of PSG? You see, it’s not only about revenue and assets when you go after one of the or maybe the biggest football in the world.

There is every way united is worth more than twice that much just from fanbase alone, if you bought PSG explain how you would tap into a relative small worldwide fan base with future Media opportunities like VR live football matches. Fast forward 5 years not even 10 and Apple launch their new Augmented/VR headset in conjunction with a new PL and CL sponsorship deal worth billions, potentially as much as another £200m to each EPL club that play in CL and EPL, on top of this MUTV in connection with Apple TV and Sky offer a yearly membership of £120 per season or £12 per month for 10 months, which club PSG or Man united have the opportunity to make treble to quadruple what the other club makes ?

 

[Pickle85]

This dance has been going around now for 4 months, Tom the Journalist, a well respected straight up united fan and excellent financial reporter said exactly the same about the actual bid, 3 months ago and he keeps repeating this now, others with hugely credible sources said the same the bid required for the Glazers to leave was £6bn and the club debt would be taken from that, in some reports it seems that this was the case and and the goalposts were moved again by the Glazers, but this is just more rumours, speculation, that bid has likely not been made but instead a bid of between £5.1 and 5.3bn, again this is subjective as there is no concrete information, my point is so many fans, me included initially thought the £6bn estimation was for the whole 100% of the club, many journalists did too, however multiple credible sources now have said, that’s not the case, the Six Sibling’s want £6bn for them to leave and relinquish control, some journalists thought it was $6bn but that’s already been debunked as that’s been offered so they went back to source and found out it’s £6bn - the club Debt which is $7.7bn - $1.2bn or $6.5bn!

Now the club debt has to be paid off because it was a loan taken out to buy the club in 2005, over a 20 year period by Malcolm Glazer, when he died the family inherited the assets and the debts.

The £535m which is the same as in 2005 must be paid before handover of power and delisting the club from the stock market, the addition amortised transfer debts of £300m should be paid but do not have to be as new owners can negotiate with the clubs and assure them that they will continued to fulfil the clubs contractual obligations. The credit card agreement from Bank of America for £200-300m will also have to be paid off as this is a debt agreed and guaranteed by the Glazers, so you could assume anything from £750m To £1.1bn must be deducted from any agreed buyout between the Glazer, Raine Group and SJ or INEOS( as we now know Ineos can not buy the club without buying out minority shareholders too!) so debt will become a factor for INEOS bid going forward.

What we do know, is the club will not be sold unless someone bids £6bn for the Glazers shares or the Glazers are willing to accept less than £6bn but more than £5bn?

Thanks, that's actually really interesting. I'm not at all knowledge on these sorts of things so this kind of breakdown is helpful.

 

[Nani Nana]

There is every way united is worth more than twice that much just from fanbase alone, if you bought PSG explain how you would tap into a relative small worldwide fan base with future Media opportunities like VR live football matches. Fast forward 5 years not even 10 and Apple launch their new Augmented/VR headset in conjunction with a new PL and CL sponsorship deal worth billions, potentially as much as another £200m to each EPL club that play in CL and EPL, on top of this MUTV in connection with Apple TV and Sky offer a yearly membership of £120 per season or £12 per month for 10 months, which club PSG or Man united have the opportunity to make treble to quadruple what the other club makes ?

As mentioned above, club should be valued at 4.5bn based on revenues

 

[Pexbo]

As mentioned above, club should be valued at 4.5bn based on revenues

That’s the enterprise value. Do you think the value of the Mona Lisa is decided by how much revenue it brings the Louvre?

 

[Nani Nana]

That’s the enterprise value. Do you think the value of the Mona Lisa is decided by how much revenue it brings the Louvre?

Man Utd look more like Mr Bean's Mona Lisa than Da Vinci's since Fergie left

 

[Pexbo]

Man Utd look more like Mr Bean's Mona Lisa than Da Vinci's since Fergie left

Nice that you can dismiss a century of incredible history and support just like that. Is that how superficial your impression of Manchester United is?

 

[Acquire Me]

Nice that you can dismiss a century of incredible history and support just like that. Is that how superficial your impression of Manchester United is?

He and a lot of others thinking exactly that.

 

[lsd]

Where does this come from?

Haven't seen any quotes that say Erik favours Qatar.

Come on you know we have many mind readers on the cafe.

They have exclusive access to Erik's thoughts and often post on who his number one transfer target is and what he wants to do about Greenwood.

I just find it weird that what they want is somehow what Erik really wants too but has never actually said as much to anyone

 

[alexthelion]

Controversial opinion perhaps but if we are choosing between Minogues I prefer Dannii...

Yes, agreed.

 

[Woziak]

As mentioned above, club should be valued at 4.5bn based on revenues

Not based on Forbes valuation who are far more qualified than you or I to make that assessment!

 

[Castia]

OGC Nice who are owned by Sir Jim Ratcliffe are the only club in the Ligue 1 to have not signed a player yet

 

[stevoc]

Its made up

Yeah I knew but I'm looking forward to the reply, if it comes.

 

[Woziak]

As mentioned above, club should be valued at 4.5bn based on revenues

To be clear here Forbes valued the club last year at at £4.88bn based on last years revenue of £583m, this years forecast is £640m, do you agree that revenue has increased by 10% in a season where the club did not play one CL fixture?

If the answer is yes then surely the Club valuation should go up now that we are in the CL and have made a significant improvement in our P and L. If you click on the link of Forbes valuation you will see why United are valued so highly, mainly due to high revenue and huge future Broadcasting and merchandising deals!

https://www.forbes.com/teams/manchester-united/?sh=20bc26713f94

Market Cap is just the number of Shares, all 163 million or so multiplied by the share price which is Currently $21.62 which is only €3.5bn the additional sum of the valuation is based on potential but also actual broadcasting deals with sky and future sponsorship deals as well as tangible capital assets like the stadium, carrington and the 43 acres of land the club own around the stadium.

To someone like SJ Father, the most appealing part of the club is not the football team as he’s not a football fan but the potential real estate around the club and what he could do with that to create a vibrant modern complex of hotels restaurants etc.

 

[stevoc]

Come on you know we have many mind readers on the cafe.

They have exclusive access to Erik's thoughts and often post on who his number one transfer target is and what he wants to do about Greenwood.

I just find it weird that what they want is somehow what Erik really wants too but has never actually said as much to anyone

Yep I'm honoured to be among them.

 

[Woziak]

OGC Nice who are owned by Sir Jim Ratcliffe are the only club in the Ligue 1 to have not signed a player yet

Clearly can’t multitask and just from every viewpoint looks like a terrible owner to take united back to the pinnacle of world football, I say this coming from a man that actually wanted him more than anyone else a year ago, I admit I was wrong.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

OGC Nice who are owned by Sir Jim Ratcliffe are the only club in the Ligue 1 to have not signed a player yet

Very concerning…

I do wish he’d feck off from the Utd deal.

 

[SmallCaine]

To be clear here Forbes valued the club last year at at £4.88bn based on last years revenue of £583m, this years forecast is £640m, do you agree that revenue has increased by 10% in a season where the club did not play one CL fixture?

If the answer is yes then surely the Club valuation should go up now that we are in the CL and have made a significant improvement in our P and L. If you click on the link of Forbes valuation you will see why United are valued so highly, mainly due to high revenue and huge future Broadcasting and merchandising deals!

https://www.forbes.com/teams/manchester-united/?sh=20bc26713f94

Market Cap is just the number of Shares, all 163 million or so multiplied by the share price which is Currently $21.62 which is only €3.5bn the additional sum of the valuation is based on potential but also actual broadcasting deals with sky and future sponsorship deals as well as tangible capital assets like the stadium, carrington and the 43 acres of land the club own around the stadium.

To someone like SJ Father, the most appealing part of the club is not the football team as he’s not a football fan but the potential real estate around the club and what he could do with that to create a vibrant modern complex of hotels restaurants etc.

No one should be using that Forbes bs to support any valuation related arguments. That number is something some glue smeller picked out of his own ass. There is literally no financial logic to increased valuation, united's value comes mostly from tv deals and commercial revenues, neither of which really had any meaningful longterm increase that would affect man utd's valuation increase. Valuations of a business do not increase or decrease wildly based on 1 season of success or failure as next season there might be changes and united may again fail to qualify for CL.

The Glazers have picked a number they like and it's clear no one outside of the retarded 6 thinks that number is anywhere close to reality which is why they got no one when they went around with their begging bowl to get some minority stake and neither Qatar nor Ratcliffe are valuing the club anywhere neat their number.

 

[sglowrider]

Where does this come from?

Haven't seen any quotes that say Erik favours Qatar.

It's page 1995 and you have not noticed that we are at the point where we are seeing mirages everywhere? That's what makes this thread fun reading.

Wake up your ideas!

 

[2cents]

 

[FujiVice]

Sorry but Utd is not worth £6bn

Would say 4.5 at best

Its worth whatever anyone is willing to pay for it.

 

[sglowrider]

Its worth whatever anyone is willing to pay for it.

Precisely

 

[Fanta Stick]

Controversial opinion perhaps but if we are choosing between Minogues I prefer Dannii...

Yes, agreed.

Fecking hipsters.

And what's with the double 'n' double 'i' spelling?

Not having it.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Its worth whatever anyone is willing to pay for it.

Just wish the Glazers would realise this…

 

[JediSith]

We shoudl be getting more than 40 quid for Maguire.

Agreed, £40 plus a packet of crisp?

 

[stevoc]

Agreed, £40 plus a packet of crisp?

Depends what type of crisps though. If it's a Walkers multipack bag with like 4 crisps in it then that's a rip-off.

 

[stevoc]

An above poster who was admittedly speculating. Neither they or me said it was any certainty, as none of us are.

Well I was certain ETH hadn't publicly said he favoured the Qatar bid. So from that perspective speculating as to which bid he favours is neither interesting or useful.

 

[vertonMUFC]

Gregory Ioannidis posted a new tweet. Any ideas anyone? I cannot paste a link here. Maybe a hint.

 

[Tarrou]

Sorry but Utd is not worth £6bn

Would say 4.5 at best

I might be in the minority but I think 6 is about right. All these valuations from financial publications are using various methods to value the club based on tried and tested business formulas. But you can't value United on how much cash they generate, if you did they'd be worth much less than 4.5bn. It's such a prestigious brand that will very rarely come on the market, you have to factor that into it.

Buying rare art-works is similarly intangible and how do you value those? By how much some rich cnut is willing to pay. If the Mona Lisa ever came on the market, rich feckers the world over would be willing to pay obscene amounts.

Everyone is moaning about the Glazers but they are playing it right. They have two bidders willing to go over "market value", one of which is a nation state, and they know they can get close to what they want. This will be wrapped up at close to 6 and Qatar will be the new owners, not a doubt in my mind.

The one factor preventing more people going for United is interest rates, and potential for them to get worse in the next few years. No billionaire likes to buy assets with cash, nor sell profit generating assets to acquire more stuff. They like to buy with debt for obvious reasons. So we have Qatar, who are so cash rich they don't give a feck. And Sir Jim, who probably just got to the stage of his life where he thought "feck it", I wanna have some fun, the idea that he's trying to buy United to make more money is pretty ludicrous actually. But even Sir Jim is struggling with the debt/cash situation I feel.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I might be in the minority but I think 6 is about right. All these valuations from financial publications are using various methods to value the club based on tried and tested business formulas. But you can't value United on how much cash they generate, if you did they'd be worth much less than 4.5bn. It's such a prestigious brand that will very rarely come on the market, you have to factor that into it.

Buying rare art-works is similarly intangible and how do you value those? By how much some rich cnut is willing to pay. If the Mona Lisa ever came on the market, rich feckers the world over would be willing to pay obscene amounts.

The issue with this is that Man Utd IS a functioning business and area of land.

It isn’t a piece of art that will continue to increase in value if you do nothing other than keep it in a safe.

It is also a business that is saddled with debt that any responsible owner will want to clear and further still a business that also needs around a billion pounds of investment in its infrastructure.

That’s the reality.

If it were worth more you’d have a lot more bidders willing to pay 5.5b, whereas in reality, there was only 3 bidders, globally, when the offers were around 4.5b! This tells you a lot about what it’s actually, currently, worth.