Yes of course, and people will come around when we get our house in order.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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I seem to recall fans getting the Liverpool match called off because of a protest. Sustained actions like that, and persistence with sponsors is whats needed.
But for some reason we're just like "meh... can't do anything", and complain to each other on an internet forum while the footballing world literally passes us by!
Like WTF?? Because of the leeches in charge we are just a husk of what we once were, Manchester United in name only. Old Trafford is a dump, Carrington not much better, The Cliff is falling apart, we don't have a proper footballing structure in place. What happened to our standards? What happened to our demands of being best in class? No wonder mediocrity permeates the team on the pitch when our protests and standards are mediocre themselves.
They Glazers see us as their meal ticket, a brand to be exploited. How people aren't at the end of their tether about this and realise more is needed than a few chants and banners at games is beyond me!
When? You say this with certainty.
Although I'm loath to give the cheats over at City that much credit, you make some very good points about the standard moral arguments which to me have little logic or worth once you actually dive into them (no doubt one of the usual suspects will be along soon to scream 'whataboutery').
Those who preferred to stay with the Glazers and support a decade of mismanagement over a full sale to the 92 Foundation clearly don't have the best interests of Manchester United at heart.
So out of interest, what would a Qatar based bidder have to do / be for you to not decide from your armchair that they’re a ‘state bid’?
I’m interested because you say, ‘no’, but I’m not sure that’s really an honest answer.
That'll be about the time Brexit finally becomes a success.
We could definitely need some positive news now.
Absolutely. And the whole club* needs to rally around it, whatever it is.
*Alligator fiddlers aside of course.
There would need to be less mystery around the bid's figurehead, more transparency around their ties (or lack thereof) to the state and more information about where the source of the funds, to name three things.
This next international break in mid-November finally feels like "the one" where we get a deal officially announced. Prayers up that Jimbo is in it for a controlling stake.
That's my view on it as well. Some people considered us to be successful based on a 3rd position place last year but the cracks were also showing last season as well
Alas, Brexit has already succeeded. The UK has left the EU.
It's a single issue, not a political vehicle. I agree other political vehicles (Labour, Tory, Farage et al) have appropriated it, but Brexit remains (ho ho) a single issue topic.
It's likely going to work out just fine for Ratcliffe, also, which is why he'll have encouraged it with such brazen lies but such disregard for the rights of others does return us to serious points regarding Qatar's ruling executive.
Yes, we were far from perfect last season but it was a step forward. This term is like a marathon in reverse, though, a return to the dark days of Ole's execution. Grim, and precipitated by a poor transfer window.
People were prosecuted for the Liverpool game, and face serious legal sanctions, still.
Furthermore, the fanbase, as this thread proves, are split on what they want next.
Do you think people should get arrested, lose their jobs and face financial ruin in the good name of Qatar or Ineos, all because we don't win a quad every season, OT lacks a Jumbotron and we can't sign Mbappe?
Lead by example and stop complaining online.
I think you’re being incredibly naive and the truth is that we are nowhere near Ratcliffe and the Glazers agreeing terms.
It's quite simple, really.
United finishing winning the lot every season, lording it over the Scousers and city, signing whoever we want and OT being the bestest stadium in the whole wide world is not more important than human rights and yes, that includes the human rights of other people.
Of course, you might think Qatar's abysmal record is somehow mitigated by Ratcliffe's business practices or 'the West', but we'd hate to scream 'whataboutery', wouldn't we?
We don't particularly know 'the truth' as we aren't privy to the negotiation. Could be concluded within an hour, or in November, could take ten months, could not happen at all. We don't know.
We already know 'our' Jassim is a state actor, in fairness.
I have a very hard time believing the war had anything to do with it. If Jassim came back on October 8 with £10B, I don't think the Glazers would have thought twice before taking the bag and running.
On the future ownership point, the M.O. of these Gulf states in football has typically been to buy a (relatively) cheaper club and pour boatloads of cash into investing in it. Personally, I think it's a combination of: 1) their money goes a lot farther if they buy a smaller club for cheap and dump money into investments, and 2) buying a smaller, less accomplished club allows them to make it more "in their own image" and not have a rich history overarching them.
Their interest in Manchester United represented a deviation from the norm to me. I would not be so sure any of them will be back, especially with how heavily the Saudis have invested in their own league.
The Glazers value the club at something ridiculous like £6.5b. At this point in time either some mysterious billionaire who's also a Utd fan pays up ( would require a miracle) or we're stuck with the Glazers for at least 3 more years. Maybe more because they're very reluctant to lose their cash cow. Jassim and his group were willing to pay over £5b which imo is fair for a club almost £1b in debt, but the Glazers wanted even more. It's like we won the lottery for the worst owners around.
Based on info that's floating around the Glazers and Ratcliffe are yet to agree on a pathway for him to eventually acquire full control of the club, so we're in for some more misery. The Qatari bid was perfect for the club but we can't have nice things, can we? Instead we've got Ratcliffe giving the Glazers the investment they've always wanted while we're still hundreds of millions in debt with the club declining in all aspects.
Based on info that's floating around the Glazers and Ratcliffe are yet to agree on a pathway for him to eventually acquire full control of the club, so we're in for some more misery. The Qatari bid was perfect for the club but we can't have nice things, can we? Instead we've got Ratcliffe giving the Glazers the investment they've always wanted while we're still hundreds of millions in debt with the club declining in all aspects.
They are probably trying to give him the Rangnick premium package where they make vague, unenforceable assurances that they totally plan on honoring. Pinkie swear.
He’s only ‘right’ if you assume that without the Ineos bid the Glazer’s would’ve just sold the club lock, stock and barrel to Jassim/Qatar.
However, all the evidence proves that to be a false assumption. It also ignores the obvious fact that the presence of Ratcliffe/Ineos in the bidding process produced higher bids from Jassim/Qatar than otherwise would’ve been the case.
Some are still in either the anger or denial stage of grieving. It seems Jassim didn't have the best bid for the Glazers, but it's easier to just blame Ratcliffe. Jassim had the chance to pay whatever pie in the sky valuation that would have seen all 6 Glazers agree to sell in full now, but he didn't do it.
Separately, the Glazers were almost certainly already exploring investment opportunities in the weeks or months leading up to the official announcement. It is likely none of the investment funds were giving them the terms they wanted so they went down this route.
The sooner this deal goes through, and Ratcliffe has the right sporting people in the hot seats the better.
I worry that Ten Hagg will go before this happens, and we'll end up with a poor decision prior to their arrival.
I worry that Ten Hagg will go before this happens, and we'll end up with a poor decision prior to their arrival.
i just fail to see how any sort of concrete path is agreed upon to future ownership. if that was the case there would be a full sale now. Not like they will want less money in the future, and if he couldnt afford the full price now see no reason to assume that somehow Ratcliffe will be able to buy some now, pump the money needed into the club, and at the same time still have the money down the line to fully buy out the leeches. Really needs to be a full sale. Nightmare scenario is they use the money to just hold down the debt enough to be in the exact same scenario in 3-5 years where we still a staggering amount of debt that is rapidly increasing due to interest rates with no improvements in the overall club.
Isnt there any other billionaire besides these 2 who may be a fan of club and wants to buy the club?
After the US world cup there will be a queue of Americans with 8b apparentley. Glazer logic
It’s difficult to see who else would be interested in buying the club at a later stage, Qatar won’t go through the hassle again.
In a few years when the Glazers think the club is worth £8B, they will ask for £10B because they think that’s the future value.
SJR has to have a agreement on a future full takeover but how do you come to a agreed valuation when the Glazers price it so highly and the valuation could rise by billions in the next few years when SJR wants to complete the takeover.
If he doesn’t have a route to full ownership, it makes the situation even more confusing. Who wants to buy the Glazer shares and have the majority sharehold but not be able to control the football side, makes their shares worthless. Could the Glazers sell their shares from under JR and pass the footballing control onto new owners and stitch him up?
"Erik ten Hag is a great coach and that is always good for Manchester United," "But Manchester United are a commercial club, so it's a difficult choice for a coach. He'd better go to a football club. "I'm not going to advise him, he'll call me himself. But he must choose a football club and not a commercial club.' - Louis van Gaal, 2022.
How anyone can see that changing under a different manager, or sporting structure with Teflon Dave Brailsford, Jean-Claude Blanc and Paul Mitchell is beyond me since the direction of the club still comes from the Glazers. People that use this club as a commercial entertainment brand that relies on social media interactions, impressions and reach to grow its value. They're obsessed with growing the brand beyond the egregious survey of "1.1 Billion fans and followers in the world." No, you're not having £30m for 16-year-old Jude Bellingham when we have Paul Pogba(ck) and his hundreds of millions of followers on social media, Sanchez playing pianos and having record breaking views on our YouTube clips of vibes.
Until the Glazers are fully gone we'll never be a football club.
How anyone can see that changing under a different manager, or sporting structure with Teflon Dave Brailsford, Jean-Claude Blanc and Paul Mitchell is beyond me since the direction of the club still comes from the Glazers. People that use this club as a commercial entertainment brand that relies on social media interactions, impressions and reach to grow its value. They're obsessed with growing the brand beyond the egregious survey of "1.1 Billion fans and followers in the world." No, you're not having £30m for 16-year-old Jude Bellingham when we have Paul Pogba(ck) and his hundreds of millions of followers on social media, Sanchez playing pianos and having record breaking views on our YouTube clips of vibes.
Until the Glazers are fully gone we'll never be a football club.
Agree. So messed up how much the glazers are willing to screw potential investors and whatever is left of the club just to get their hands on that imaginary extra billion. If they can't find a sucker to meet their valuation they are perfectly fine letting us flirt with insolvency. This isn't some masterclass in negotiation either. Make no mistake any other business would be insolvent under this level of mismanagement. Because 6bn and having someone pay off their 1bn debt is a lowball offer.
That’s the hope, but with either side, it was never guaranteed.
Quite a simplistic viewpoint and totally missing my point.
Its not about any of that.
20+ years of directionless Glazer ownership have led to this point. And all we do as a collective is complain to each, and put out banners and sing anti Glazer chants.
I'm not talking protests that break the law, but we have it within our power as a collective to shine a spotlight on the Glazers, but we don't.
So here we are.
Be very surprised if that happens
Your mistake is believing that who owns our club has any effect on human rights - it really doesnt.
Sheikh Jassim has walked away, are human rights in Qatar (or anywhere in the world) improving as a result? Obviously not.
Clearly all bidders have issues on a moral level, unfortunately there is no ethical ownership option available to us, so a waste of time getting moralistic IMO.
Best to focus on what's best for Manchester United and that was clearly the option that removed the Glazers, cleared the debts and invested in the stadium.
If Sir Jim can get a proper takeover sorted then it's better than nothing but still huge questions about the debt, stadium etc.
Obviously there are protests shining a light on the issue all the time, not sure what else you want, but ultimately the fans have little say in this.
We just have to wait and see what the billionaires decide
I think ten Hag is safe. Well at least that make sense. Making such decisions before the deal goes through would be extremely unprofessional. Sir Jim will back ten Hag and in the long run that will be great for us.
Earlier in this thread there was a theory that higher interest rates was a bit part of the reason behind the sale. Was this ever disproved?
I'm at the point now where I genuinely couldn't give a feck about being morally in the right with regards to a sale to Qatar. I just want these lizard Yank arseholes gone. Couldn't care less where the next owner comes from.
I have zero confidence either that Sir Jim is going to be able to pony up the required cash in a few years which will buy the Glazers remaining shares.
I have zero confidence either that Sir Jim is going to be able to pony up the required cash in a few years which will buy the Glazers remaining shares.
But we do!
Not once have I thought Qatar's deplorable human rights record is contingent on their owning United. Like with UAE and city, they're attempting to manufacture consent.
You've been told on that before, Rood.
There it is.
The 'whataboutery', leading to a classic false equivalence, which you earlier decried in your opponent's analysis.
I wonder if you actually realise you are doing it.
Erm, yeah. Sure?
He has to have transfers removed from him. I like EtH, but after Antony and Mount, I think it's necessary.
Jesus what sort of confidence boost is that for the players who know they are his signings? It’s a toxic situation.
Not exactly helpful when confidence throughout the team is already at rock bottom.
This.
What happened is the worst outcome possible. Ratboy’s money is going to the Glazer’s pocket, and Jimmy haven’t make an statement of clearing the debt or investing in facilities and/or players. He basically just gave the leeches breathing air when they were desperate. Now Qatar will probably buy Liverpool and they will become a force to be recounted with, while we drown in mediocrity.
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