Damage done by previous regime

[TheRedDevil2019]

Stop blaming the managers or the regime for god sake. We’ve had over a dozen managers now of differing abilities and experience and it’s been largely a failure with them all. The players are as obsessed with making money and image as the owners are. Call them out ffs. Enough is enough now.

This 1000%, can't be reiterated enough. The poison of Lingard and Co has clearly rubbed off on others.

Ralf has been here for 22 games, wanna know how he matches up to Ole’s final 22 games?

Well… he beats him on every metric.

Ole lost 9 of his final 22 (10 if you include the EL final), his points per game in that times was 1.18. So yeah, he’d be just above Leeds if he carried on that form.

Oh, and I think Ralf has been “meh” at best, a bit crap really, yet still better than Ole in their respective 22 games.

You've already lost the argument bringing an interim manager into the debate. Plus that theory is very flawed for obvious reasons. Nice try though fella.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You've already lost the argument bringing an interim manager into the debate.

Kin 'ell, thanks for that

 

[Rightnr]

Anyone defending OGS and his idiotic decisions should have an automatic WUM tag assigned. And don't get me started on blaming Rangnick because our players don't want to run.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Seething at my teams loss. Have absolutely no time for your drama. Thank heaven the ignore option is there for the likes of you.

wow.

 

[Delano]

We're in this position because of chronic squad mismanagement over the years.

Contracts given out for the sake of it, hoarding players who aren't good enough and buying players for non existent/ever-changing systems.

The likes of Mata, Jones, Pogba, Peirera etc should've been sold years ago. Whilst AWB, Maguire etc should never have been bought.

We're now seeing it come to fruition. Players on the way out not caring, players not capable of playing the way ANOTHER new manager wants to play and gaps in quality all over the pitch.

It's why we need a proper system manager who is given time to buy players who fit a system that is used throughout the club. It's the only way we'll look an actual team again.

Only problem is, the club still has no idea how it wants to play. Hence the managers we want all being different.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Guess, we know the individual brilliance that we were getting results on in the last 2 seasons was brilliance of the coaching staff

Do you remember our league position when Ole was sacked?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

We're in this position because of chronic squad mismanagement over the years.

Contracts given out for the sake of it, hoarding players who aren't good enough and buying players for non existent/ever-changing systems.

The likes of Mata, Jones, Pogba, Peirera etc should've been sold years ago. Whilst AWB, Maguire etc should never have been bought.

We're now seeing it come to fruition. Players on the way out not caring, players not capable of playing the way ANOTHER new manager wants to play and gaps in quality all over the pitch.

It's why we need a proper system manager who is given time to buy players who fit a system that is used throughout the club. It's the only way we'll look an actual team again.

Only problem is, the club still has no idea how it wants to play. Hence the managers we want all being different.

Bingo.

 

[LJJT]

Ultimately it's up to the club to manage the squad properly. I think one of our biggest issues is that the players are massively overpaid, which is again down to stupidity from Woodward and Ole over the last few years. At our club you have Shaw who is on 150k a week, Martial 250, Rashford 200, Pogba 290, Sancho 350, Varane 300, Ronaldo 500. I mean Brandon Williams was given a contract of rumoured to be around 50-70k a week... for what? These players are getting paid top wages in the world for having won nothing. Mainly, I believe, because we want to retain their value by keeping them on. It makes no sense. Mo Salah and Van Dijk are on just under 200k a week. Both are the best in the world in their position and Martial gets more than both of them. That's our issue. I honestly don't even know how you solve this issue but I don't know why we are offering Shaw and Rashford new contracts right now when they have 2 years or more left on their contracts.

Agree completely aside from I don’t know why you mention Ole, it’s not him who dishes the wages out.

 

[anant]

Do you remember our league position when Ole was sacked?

Do you remember the league finishes in the previous 2 seasons?

 

[MackRobinson]

I see the Mourinho apologists are back at it again. Deep down they know he was a toxic manager who spent a fortune on utter crap and managed to feck everything up on and off the pitch. Ole deserved to be sacked, but Mourihno was poison to the club.

 

[R'hllor]

At the end of the day, everything its in context, its not manager everytime, nor are players always, even thou players should be playing for the club and not the manager but we know how that goes.

 

[Idxomer]

How am I? Why is it always the managers fault? Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole and now Rangnick all leaving after an atrocious fecking run that all look identical to each other. Of all those manager, Ole is the only one to get a tune out of the front 3/4. Everybody was scoring under him last year and now we are back to this.
There’s no scapegoats here, no easy finger to point.

Because you're trying to absolve him of blame. Martial became much worse last season, Rashford and even Bruno started to score and assist less as the season went on. We were awful again at the end of last season and that spilled into the new one. The only time the forwards were scoring freely under him was in 19/20 and that was mostly after the Covid break.

He's not a scapegoat but he let the team fester and the culture around the club now is so toxic that it will force any new manager to get rid of a lot of the squad to achieve any kind of success. Some of those players are even very good but I don't see it working it out for them now, both the club and the players need a clean break.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Do you remember the league finishes in the previous 2 seasons?

Yeah people are dying to hire that guy with his double top 4 trophies.

 

[Vapor trail]

The issue is naturally people prefer problems to be singular to avoid complexity, but the reality of understanding the United issue is that there are a multitude of issues which through accumulation have led this team to where it is today.

But like any organisation the fundamental responsibilities begins and ends with the Glazers. The short sightedness to place Solslkjaer in charge when the team really did need a more proven individual (during a transition). Even some of the messages from Ole were questionable like being 1st and conceding that the team wasn't challenging, Leicester are proof that a team is capable of winning the league through determination, belief and unity all of which are intangible elements of the game.

The decision to make Moyes a manager with no previous experience managing a consistent top four club, also underestimating the loss of Gill alongside SAF with Woodward replicating that influence.

The LVG / Mourinho period two completely different managers with opposing ethos and philosophy. A substantial waste of resources considering Mourinho was hired directly after being on a downward trajectory with Chelsea.

You consider that all these managerial changes were made which impacted the team thus impacting the identity of the club and it has cultivated a domino effect to this present day.

Undeniably the club is reaping what's been sewn through years of mismanagement in the hierarchy. I still don't understand how the Glazer family are billionaires yet lack the application to be methodical and calculated in their decision making.

 

[anant]

Yeah people are dying to hire that guy with his double top 4 trophies.

I really am struggling to understand the point here. Was Ole a poor squad builder or not? If he was, then he/ coaching can't be a noob tactically, as was alleged, because you just don't get consecutive top 4 finishes on just "vibes". If he wasn't a poor squad builder, then there was no/minimal damage caused by him.

You surely can't have it both ways.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Yeah people are dying to hire that guy with his double top 4 trophies.

Literally no one went for Rangnick, whats your point?

 

[Desert Eagle]

I really am struggling to understand the point here. Was Ole a poor squad builder or not? If he was, then he/ coaching can't be a noob tactically, as was alleged, because you just don't get consecutive top 4 finishes on just "vibes". If he wasn't a poor squad builder, then there was no/minimal damage caused by him.

You surely can't have it both ways.

He was a poor squad builder, the burning shit show of a squad we have is all his doing.

As to is he a noob tactically , lets examine the evidence:

against- he got two top four finishes
for- he won nothing, the top 4 finishes got 74 and 66 points after spending over 300 million and gave us the biggest humiliation to our biggest rivals in our lifetime.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Literally no one went for Rangnick, whats your point?

Rangnick is here as an interim and his managerial history shits all over Oles. My point is Ole is crap and comparing him as a manager to any other accomplished manager is a losing proposition.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Rangnick is here as an interim and his managerial history shits all over Oles. My point is Ole is crap and comparing him as a manager to any other accomplished manager is a losing proposition.

Ole was hired as an interim, just like Rangnick. He can absolutely be compared to Rangnick who has shown that the modern game has left him behind.

 

[anant]

He was a poor squad builder, the burning shit show of a squad we have is all his doing.

As to is he a noob tactically , lets examine the evidence:

against- he got two top four finishes
for- he won nothing, the top 4 finishes got 74 and 66 points after spending over 300 million and gave us the biggest humiliation to our biggest rivals in our lifetime.

Ok.

So, help me understand this, how in the fecking world did we finish 3rd and 2nd in 2 consecutive seasons - with a tactical noob and a shit squad. We haven't finished in top 4 consecutively since SAF, but managed to do that under him.

The issue with half the forum is, when Ole was here, they were convinced any manager would turn the team around, as quality is there. Remember the fan fare going on after the 1st 30 minutes vs Palace? Now that it hasn't worked out, it's all on the players

 

[Desert Eagle]

Ole was hired as an interim, just like Rangnick. He can absolutely be compared to Rangnick who has shown that the modern game has left him behind.

Oh i must have missed the 300 million Ralf spent to be spanked 5-0 at home to liverpool after 3 years in charge. If the modern game has left Ralf behind, i wonder what you were saying about Ole earlier this season when we were getting spanked by every team we faced.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Oh i must have missed the 300 million Ralf spent to be spanked 5-0 at home to liverpool after 3 years in charge. If the modern game has left Ralf behind, i wonder what you were saying about Ole earlier this season when we were getting spanked by every team we faced.

Money doesn't buy you everything. Ole wanted Grealish, Haaland, Bellingham. The modern game has left him behind because there is no new manager bounce at all. His 4222 was a complete failure. His record is something like 7-7-2 now, and many of those draws came from individual brilliance. It's been four months and we've yet to see anything close to coherent football. Yeah, you missed alot if you only remember Ole's last couple of games..

 

[Desert Eagle]

Ok.

So, help me understand this, how in the fecking world did we finish 3rd and 2nd in 2 consecutive seasons - with a tactical noob and a shit squad. We haven't finished in top 4 consecutively since SAF, but managed to do that under him.

The issue with half the forum is, when Ole was here, they were convinced any manager would turn the team around, as quality is there. Remember the fan fare going on after the 1st 30 minutes vs Palace? Now that it hasn't worked out, it's all on the players

No the issue has always been both. Shit manager plus shit players equals shit football. People keep sucking off the top four trophy when he won nothing and got knocked out of the CL group stage. Go look at the xg stats for how we finished with that amount of points and in those positions. Then go look at his performance in the cups as well

Nobody has ever said any manager could turn us around, they've only rightly said we can do much better than Ole. Also the comparison to Ralf when the guy hasn't spent a penny is laughable.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Money doesn't buy you everything. Ole wanted Grealish, Haaland, Bellingham. The modern game has left him behind because there is no new manager bounce at all. His 4222 was a complete failure. His record is something like 7-7-2 now, and many of those draws came from individual brilliance. It's been four months and we've yet to see anything close to coherent football. Yeah, you missed alot if you only remember Ole's last couple of games..

Poor Ole didn't get another 300 million. Nah buddy i didn't miss much at all actually, ask any united fan to name 5 great moments under Ole and they'd struggle.

 

[mu4c_20le]

No the issue has always been both. Shit manager plus shit players equals shit football. People keep sucking off the top four trophy when he won nothing and got knocked out of the CL group stage. Go look at the xg stats for how we finished with that amount of points and in those positions. Then go look at his performance in the cups as well

Nobody has ever said any manager could turn us around, they've only rightly said we can do much better than Ole. Also the comparison to Ralf when the guy hasn't spent a penny is laughable.

Again, you aren't making any sense. You are basically suggesting that you could step in and get top 4 with that squad. And then getting all sensitive when people dare question why Rangnick isnt doing better with said squad.

 

[hammerfadl]

Ok.

So, help me understand this, how in the fecking world did we finish 3rd and 2nd in 2 consecutive seasons - with a tactical noob and a shit squad. We haven't finished in top 4 consecutively since SAF, but managed to do that under him.

Looking at the points gained those seasons, we came 2nd and 3rd mostly because we were less shit than the other teams at the top. Rarely has those points been enough for a 2nd & 3rd position. The 66 points for 3rd, would be 6th the year after. The 74 would be 5th 4 years ago, 6th the year before that.

Looking a bit deeper we had increasingly poor defensive record for over 1,5 year with Ole and rarely did the team play good. People go on and on about 2nd place this and that, but seem to completely forget the number of poor performances the team delivered. The cowardly tactics of sitting deep even at home to relegation teams, the poor squad rotation and the list goes on.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Again, you aren't making any sense. You are basically suggesting that you could step in and get top 4 with that squad. And then getting all sensitive when people dare question why Rangnick isnt doing better with said squad.

Don't make stuff up. Criticize Ralf all you want, I could care less. It's the inaccurate and disingenuous comparison between the two I'm addressing. One was given many years and many hundreds of millions to shape his team and style of play, the other has been given no time and no money.

 

[sugar_kane]

It's absurd that Ole is still getting blamed for performances like that nearly 6 months on from his sacking. Yes, he fecked it this season but he never had us playing so utterly toothless every single week.

It's not his fault Rangnick can't motivate a bunch of players to save his life, or that our board thought it would be a brilliant idea to appoint a manager for six months when his speciality is building clubs in a sporting director capacity over the course of years.

Were we still blaming LVG when we played crap under Jose? Did we blame Moyes for LVG's rubbish start?

 

[Swedish_Plumber]

Everything’s been shite since fergie. He papered over the cracks of mismanagement by the hierarchy by getting the best out of average players he had to accommodate. Ole was shite but he’s the culmination of a shitshow 10/15 years at board level.

Without a fantastic manager in place those cracks have become Grand Canyon sized and we’re falling by the wayside to teams that have stuck at a game plan.

Hard reboot needed with a realisation that you can’t buy your way around a catalogue of different managers with different approaches. Get a talented manager in who has a real idea of where to take the football club, back him in signing players who fit his ideology and hopefully start to see some identity and character (hello Brendan) on the pitch.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Don't make stuff up. Criticize Ralf all you want, I could care less. It's the inaccurate and disingenuous comparison between the two I'm addressing. One was given many years and many hundreds of millions to shape his team and style of play, the other has been given no time and no money.

Disingenuous like bringing up a manager's history like it means something? He's an interim. Current results is all that matters.

 

[anant]

Looking at the points gained those seasons, we came 2nd and 3rd mostly because we were less shit than the other teams at the top. Rarely has those points been enough for a 2nd & 3rd position. The 66 points for 3rd, would be 6th the year after. The 74 would be 5th 4 years ago, 6th the year before that.

Looking a bit deeper we had increasingly poor defensive record for over 1,5 year with Ole and rarely did the team play good. People go on and on about 2nd place this and that, but seem to completely forget the number of poor performances the team delivered. The cowardly tactics of sitting deep even at home to relegation teams, the poor squad rotation and the list goes on.

Why do I care about points tally? It's like "Had Fergie been the manager in the past 5 years, he'd have never won the league as apart from last season, for the 4 seasons before that, the winner got 90+ points.

Eventually the competition is against teams that year. And 74 in nearly every season gets top 4 btw, barring 2 maybe.

 

[anant]

No the issue has always been both. Shit manager plus shit players equals shit football. People keep sucking off the top four trophy when he won nothing and got knocked out of the CL group stage. Go look at the xg stats for how we finished with that amount of points and in those positions. Then go look at his performance in the cups as well

Nobody has ever said any manager could turn us around, they've only rightly said we can do much better than Ole. Also the comparison to Ralf when the guy hasn't spent a penny is laughable.

Yeah please do look at the xG stats of those years.

Spoiler, in terms of nPxGD - using so that you don't bring up "numbers were exagerrated because of pens" - we finished in top 4 by that metric in both the seasons. That happened just once in the post SAF era before Ole - Mou's 1st season.

And I'm not even comparing him to Ralf. All I'm saying is, blaming Ole 6 months after Ole's been sacked is idiotic. No matter how poor you think the side is, they are surely better than Everton, Leicester, Watford, Burnley and the likes

 

[croadyman]

Previous managers left us with these players, so yes they set the rot in.

Rot started with those yankee leeches taking over and then that Toy Story clown cost us best manager around to boot which stings the most

 

[croadyman]

Stop blaming the managers or the regime for god sake. We’ve had over a dozen managers now of differing abilities and experience and it’s been largely a failure with them all. The players are as obsessed with making money and image as the owners are. Call them out ffs. Enough is enough now.

Yeah bunch of social media big time Charlie's

 

[Bebestation]

Rot started with those yankee leeches taking over and then that Toy Story clown cost us best manager around to boot which stings the most

This is what i find interesting - when the media talk about Saudi billionaires taking over us; some of our fans get protective over Glazers ownership.

Is that a pure USA vs Middle Eastern thing? Because Middle Eastern ownership hasn't been as bad in my opinion in comparison to American ownership of United.

 

[croadyman]

This is what i find interesting - when the media talk about Saudi billionaires taking over us; some of our fans get protective over Glazers ownership.

Is that a pure USA vs Middle Eastern thing? Because Middle Eastern ownership hasn't been as bad in my opinion in comparison to American ownership of United.

Yeah they make out those leeches to be decent owners because of no human rights issues, however they still have caused serious irreparable financial damage which gets swept under carpet

 

[Desert Eagle]

Yeah please do look at the xG stats of those years.

Spoiler, in terms of nPxGD - using so that you don't bring up "numbers were exagerrated because of pens" - we finished in top 4 by that metric in both the seasons. That happened just once in the post SAF era before Ole - Mou's 1st season.

And I'm not even comparing him to Ralf. All I'm saying is, blaming Ole 6 months after Ole's been sacked is idiotic. No matter how poor you think the side is, they are surely better than Everton, Leicester, Watford, Burnley and the likes

It's his squad so of course he will still get the blame. The players were coddled and now they've downed tools. Ralf has his own problems and faults but that doesn't absolve Ole of anything.

 

[anant]

It's his squad so of course he will still get the blame. The players were coddled and now they've downed tools. Ralf has his own problems and faults but that doesn't absolve Ole of anything.

And he got decent results for 2 seasons! When he stopped getting results, he got sacked.
It's like blaming Fergie for Moyes, because most if the side was Fergie's.
The coddled players had the highest number of comeback wins in a season - it wasn't a one off thing as well.
You brought up the point of xG, and since that was proven wrong, you're changing the goal posts again.
Look, Ole was rightfully sacked but to say that he is responsible for the mess 6 months after his departure is stupid

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Rot started with those yankee leeches taking over and then that Toy Story clown cost us best manager around to boot which stings the most

Everybody is to blame, someone chose the manager, or as you say lost us a manager, they signed or persuaded them, or let them sign a lot of ill fitting players. They have let the whole club rot from the stadium, training ground to the team and letting the standards drop.

 

[90 + 5min]

Poor Ole didn't get another 300 million. Nah buddy i didn't miss much at all actually, ask any united fan to name 5 great moments under Ole and they'd struggle.

You can blame Solskjaer for all you want and any other manager but you are missing point where blame should be.

It is easy to forget where we were when Solskjaer took over. It is easy to forget that we came 3rd and 2nd in his two full seasons. Ofcourse he needed to go for this season but it was definitly not his fault. Go back to how our players performed under Mourinho shortly before his sacking. Exaclty the same. Difference was that Mourinho is more straight forward and told exactly what he thought while Solskjaer is more like diplomat.

What you can blame Solskjaer for is not being tough on some players. Fines, suspensions, send people to teams under our senior team. We have players in our club that behave that they can do anything or nothing because of money, power and status. What you can blame the club is lot. Not having a structure on wages. Nobody in this club deserve £150 000 a week. Never mind £200 000 - 500 000. It is shocking. We don't have clear vision because our managers are underminded and there are changes everywhere. We don't have right people at right places and we have people in places nobody understand why and how.

So you can blame our managers but that should be bottom of the list.