[Pogue Mahone]

Jesus Christ, just read the page already.

Feck me. Not one of those examples is comparable. Repeatedly referencing them won’t change that. Karius and Mignolet are on that list ffs.

 

[MadMike]

Feck me. Not one of those examples is comparable. Repeatedly referencing them won’t change that. Karius and Mignolet are on that list ffs.

How was Casillias, Pepe Reina, Cech, Joe Hart not comparable? What's you rationale?

Repeatedly ignoring them won't change anything either.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How was Casillias, Pepe Reina, Cech, Joe Hart not comparable? What's you rationale?

All of them (apart from Hart) were once great keepers in decline. Joe Hart was never great in the first place.

I’m looking for an example of a top keeper, in his prime, being dropped after a few bad games.

 

[MadMike]

All of them (apart from Hart) were once great keepers in decline. Joe Hart was never great in the first place.

I’m looking for an example of a top keeper, in his prime, being dropped after a few bad games.

How weren't they in their prime and De Gea is? They were all similar age to him when they started playing poorly and got dropped. And if you're talking about performance levels De Gea is not any more in his prime than either of those cases.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How weren't they in their prime and De Gea is? They were all similar age to him when they started playing poorly and got dropped. And if you're talking about performance levels De Gea is not any more in his prime than either of those cases.

They weren’t though.

 

[MadMike]

They weren’t though.

They were though. They were all 30yo, which is only couple years older than De Gea and at their goalkeeping prime.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

They were though. They were all 30yo, which is only couple years older than De Gea and at their goalkeeping prime.

Casillas was 31 when he was dropped by Mourinho. As part of his usual slash and burn scapegoating tactics when things start going south.

Can’t be arsed googling DOB’s for the other two but I only remember Reina and Cech being dropped through a combination of being in a steady downward age-related decline and their imminent replacements being already at the club. None of which is true for De Gea. Willing to stand corrected if that isn’t the case.

 

[el3mel]

Casillas was 31 when he was dropped by Mourinho. As part of his usual slash and burn scapegoating tactics when things start going south.

Can’t be arsed googling DOB’s for the other two but I only remember Reina and Cech being dropped through a combination of being in a steady downward age-related decline and their imminent replacements being already at the club. None of which is true for De Gea. Willing to stand corrected if that isn’t the case.

Actually the next season Carlo also dropped Iker in the league and was playing him only in cup and CL while Lopez was playing in the league which is the longer competition. They were starting to move on from him gradually but wanted to shut him up by playing him in CL.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Actually the next season Carlo also dropped Iker in the league and was playing him only in cup and CL while Lopez was playing in the league which is the longer competition. They were starting to move on from him gradually but wanted to shut him up by playing him in CL.

I’ve always thought that short keepers like Casillas and Given don’t have the same longevity as taller keepers because they’re that bit more reliant on speed/agility. So their decline is more in line with outfield players. Lloris looks to be going the same way.

 

[el3mel]

I’ve always thought that short keepers like Casillas and Given don’t have the same longevity as taller keepers because they’re that bit more reliant on speed/agility. So their decline is more in line with outfield players. Lloris looks to be going the same way.

Good point that.

 

[MadMike]

Casillas was 31 when he was dropped by Mourinho. As part of his usual slash and burn scapegoating tactics when things start going south.

Can’t be arsed googling DOB’s for the other two but I only remember Reina and Cech being dropped through a combination of being in a steady downward age-related decline and their imminent replacements being already at the club. None of which is true for De Gea. Willing to stand corrected if that isn’t the case.

What has "having their replacement ready" have to do with your argument that prime keepers don't get dropped. What whataboutism is that? Reina went on to have a very good career at Napoli, still was dropped by 'pool before being sold. And if De Gea goes on to get sold in the summer and have a similar tail to his career you'll be talking about the same decline you're talking about the others. You don't know if he's not declining.

You could acknowledge that you're wrong, but I guess it's easier to double down.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What has "having their replacement ready" have to do with your argument that prime keepers don't get dropped. What whataboutism is that? Reina went on to have a very good career at Napoli, still was dropped by 'pool before being sold. And if De Gea goes on to get sold in the summer and have a similar tail to his career you'll be talking about the same decline you're talking about the others. You don't know if he's not declining.

You could acknowledge that you're wrong, but I guess it's easier to double down.

I’m not fecking wrong though. You’re being deliberately obtuse now. Obviously De Gea isn’t declining due to his age.

Feel free to prove me wrong if you want, though. I’ve given you an open goal by admitting I don’t know the age of Reina when be left Liverpool. Simple google search should do it.

And if you honestly can’t understand why dropping a keeper as part of bedding in his long term replacement is different to what’s being suggested with De Gea now then it looks like this conversation is a complete waste of everyone’s time.

 

[MadMike]

I’m not fecking wrong though. You’re being deliberately obtuse now. Obviously De Gea isn’t declining due to his age.

Feel free to prove me wrong if you want, though. I’ve given you an open goal by admitting I don’t know the age of Reina when be left Liverpool. Simple google search should do it.

And if you honestly can’t understand why dropping a keeper as part of bedding in his long term replacement is different to what’s being suggested with De Gea now then it looks like this conversation is a complete waste of everyone’s time.

It is indeed. I'll let you be.

 

[Ever Moas]

He's having a meltdown and has handed goals to the opposition in 3 of his last 4 games at a crucial stage of the season, it isn't really necessary to go combing through the history books to find a precedent of GK's being dropped. OGS should've done what is best for United at this time and given Romero a go.

 

[UncleBob]

Well, stop talking like you're butthurt then. The calling to sell him, is based on the fact that he's not renewing his contract anyway. Why keep a player who you'll lose for free when he's not performing either? At least you'd argue that if he's playing well you might let him run down the contract and get another year out of him.

We're already facing a huge rebuild this summer, having to also look for a new first choice goalkeeper to replace someone that has been amongst the best in the world is less than ideal. Given the fees that Chelsea and Liverpool had to pay last season, it will be fecking expensive as well with no guarantee that we'll end up with someone close to De Gea's quality.

It's hardly uncommon that clubs consider that the benefits of losing a player on a free, but keeping him for an extra season, outweighs the negatives.

Same goes for Pogba, too many areas to rebuild that we can afford to let him leave this summer.

And he's also tried to leave by not renewing in the past and was a "fax machine" away form doing so. Not exactly the type of player to show some huge loyalty to. It's all very rational over here.

The club waited with contract renewals, just like we've done now, hardly a surprise that he was tempted to feck off given the situation with the club and what he could've achieved somewhere else.

Shambles of a performance was that at Everton. If you have no measure of what shambles is how do you expect me to discuss with you?

Didn't think the second half against Chelsea was all that much better than the performance against Everton, difference was that Everton had their day while Chelsea had little reason to push forward and leave space. Quality of passing, chances created, player movement, it was all very poor.

I still think the main issue is that the players just aren't fit enough, and that Ole has pushed them too hard too soon.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/...ctions-and-soccers-most-magnificent-mind.html
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...method-charisma-instability-manchester-united

To an extent, all of them.

Which extent is that then ? Pepe Reina more or less constantly played for Liverpool. He told Liverpool he'd be interested in leaving for Spain (Barcelona) but the move never happened as Barcelona didn't allow Valdes to leave, preferring him to run down his contract, Brendan Rodgers had already brought in Mignolet as his no 1 as he expected Reina to leave. Reina was loaned out to Napoli to be reunited with Benitez. Reina was already looking to leave.

Victor Valdes didn't want to renew with Barcelona, which was a surprise to the club and fans.

Mignolet and Karius were new signings, both shite, bizarre comparison to bring up.

Joe Hart had a short stint where he looked mint, quickly turned shit but escaped media scrutiny thanks to his position as Englands no 1, it hardly came as a surprise that his days at City were coming to an end (Pep or no Pep).

Bravo had just been signed, he was a disaster, not much of a comparison

Casillas is maybe the best comparison, but we're talking far longer periods of not playing well, not to mention the crisis with Mourinho.

Buffon was initially benched after joining a new club, hardly a surprise, he was the one that didn't want to renew with Juventus

Cech had been going downhill for years, with injury concerns as well. Chelsea had their long term replacement lined up with Courtois, who was returning from a loan period at Atletico. No one was surprised that Cech was going to struggle. He's 36, has always been open with Arsenal that his career is coming to an end, Arsenal signed Leno as their future no 1 and Cech lost his spot after he suffered another injury, then he moved on to announce he'd be retiring at the end of the season.

 

[Frank Grimes]

All of them (apart from Hart) were once great keepers in decline. Joe Hart was never great in the first place.

I’m looking for an example of a top keeper, in his prime, being dropped after a few bad games.

De Gea's form for a top keeper in itself is uncommon, 6 or 7 games in a row now throwing it in the net. I've never seen a top keeper have a meltdown this bad tbh so even if your rationale is correct (which I don't think it is) it calls for exceptional actions. There was a thread started at the start of this month questioning if he should be dropped and 5 or 6 games later he is still fecking up. The fact you think he is undroppable based on some non precedent argument is ridiculous tbh.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

I wonder if this is him being told to add elemtns to his game he isn't particularly good at.

Hopefully he learns from this spell and comes off as better.

 

[Fergie Steps In]

De Gea's form for a top keeper in itself is uncommon, 6 or 7 games in a row now throwing it in the net. I've never seen a top keeper have a meltdown this bad tbh so even if your rationale is correct (which I don't think it is) it calls for exceptional actions. There was a thread started at the start of this month questioning if he should be dropped and 5 or 6 games later he is still fecking up. The fact you think he is undroppable based on some non precedent argument is ridiculous tbh.

Yeah I really don't understand where this notion that a first choice keeper can never be dropped comes from. If De Gea has personal, contract or family stuff on his mind (for example), then it is to everyone's benefit that he be dropped for a few games until he regains his focus.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

I think he made just one mistake today -- a crucial one at that which Chelsea grab ruthlessly.

Otherwise, I think he had a fine game, no mistakes.

Made one good important save to deny them and keep it 1-1 at the end of the game.

 

[sglowrider]

Twelve months left in his contract, having a bad spell, how much can we flog him off if we are forced to?

 

[Kharhaz]

Liverpool didnt drop and sell Reina because he was in decline, he was dropped and sold because his loyalties were at another club (Barcelona), and for me Brendan Rodgers was right in making those decisions.

De Gea over the last 4 or 5 seasons has single handedly saved uniteds seasons. The fact he has made some clangers in his last few games doesnt mean he is now in decline. Take the world cup, people were saying he is not as good as he was, of course he isnt. The bar he set was ridiculously high, even the top goalkeepers in todays game could never constantly make the saves De Gea was making. Against West Ham a few weeks back, he pulled off a ridiculous one handed save to keep united in the game. The amount of times he has won Man of the Match awards for united, the player of the season, most influencial player.

United beat Liverpool one time 3-0, and De Gea got the Man of the Match award. He won them that game, to name just one, many games against Liverpool he has been the Man of the Match.

If I were in Uniteds shoes for me I would get his head back in the game. Give him a new contract, give him a stupid wage, give him whatever it takes to keep him because it would be very foolish to let one of the most consistent performers, the one player who has stood out constantly as the match winner, go for next to nothing to a club who will pay him that wage knowing full well he will win them many games.

I find it amazing how so many people are happy to flog him after a few cock ups, totally ignoring the seasons he saved.

 

[Canagel]

The problem more than the occasional blunder is that he's awful at everything out of the line. Playing from the back, defending set pieces and crosses, ancitipating long balls, the guy is a bag of nerves and insecurity and now even more, as his confidence seems to be in the lowest point ever. You can be patient and understanding with someone who really wants to stay and shows some commitment at least, but he always comes looking over the shoulder with silly demands and letting his contract to end, so he can do one for me, zero sympathy.

The best keepers in the game are probably earning around 150-200k, maybe with the exception of Neuer, but De Gea seems to want 350 or 400 if not more when he can't improve any of his weaknesses, and his only remarkable quality is under question marks too and won't last forever. And people suggesting to give him a fat contract so he can relax and play better, it's laughable really.

The sooner we start looking for a more complete and influential keeper the better for us, and the same can be said about the centerbacks by the way. It's impossible to build a solid defence without players with strong character and mentality who can operate together to anticipate problems and dangerous situations on the field. All our defenders including this man are snowflakes with lots of limitations and lack any leadership. You just can't build anything around this, it's impossible.

My thoughts exactly especially the bold and what I've said for a while already. People can't use the shit defence excuse for DDG. He is part of the unit that's now shipped in our record amount of goals in PL season. We also have the least home clean sheets of all the PL teams.

 

[RooneyLegend]

Liverpool didnt drop and sell Reina because he was in decline, he was dropped and sold because his loyalties were at another club (Barcelona), and for me Brendan Rodgers was right in making those decisions.

De Gea over the last 4 or 5 seasons has single handedly saved uniteds seasons. The fact he has made some clangers in his last few games doesnt mean he is now in decline. Take the world cup, people were saying he is not as good as he was, of course he isnt. The bar he set was ridiculously high, even the top goalkeepers in todays game could never constantly make the saves De Gea was making. Against West Ham a few weeks back, he pulled off a ridiculous one handed save to keep united in the game. The amount of times he has won Man of the Match awards for united, the player of the season, most influencial player.

United beat Liverpool one time 3-0, and De Gea got the Man of the Match award. He won them that game, to name just one, many games against Liverpool he has been the Man of the Match.

If I were in Uniteds shoes for me I would get his head back in the game. Give him a new contract, give him a stupid wage, give him whatever it takes to keep him because it would be very foolish to let one of the most consistent performers, the one player who has stood out constantly as the match winner, go for next to nothing to a club who will pay him that wage knowing full well he will win them many games.

I find it amazing how so many people are happy to flog him after a few cock ups, totally ignoring the seasons he saved.

Amazing that a Liverpool fan on our forum has to make such obvious accurate points. These people have lost their minds. It's a bit like the Hazard season a few years back and look how he's played since then. Believe it or not some Chelsea fans also want him out the door quick, fast and in a hurry.

 

[Wilfred Brown]

Amazing that a Liverpool fan on our forum has to make such obvious accurate points. These people have lost their minds. It's a bit like the Hazard season a few years back and look how he's played since then. Believe it or not some Chelsea fans also want him out the door quick, fast and in a hurry.

Never trust Liverpool fans.

 

[Intilo]

And he ask 400k ? Just let him go and get booed in Real Madrid on weekly basis.

 

[Hughes35]

Does anybody else think the reason he hasn't been dropped is just to get a better fee for him at the end of the season?

At the moment it keeps up appearances that he might stay with us and any buyer will need to pay decent money. If we drop him then it's fairly obvious he's getting sold so we lose a few million off his selling price?

I thought this before the Chelsea game and I fully expect him to start the last two games of the season also even though he should be nowhere near it.

 

[Yorkeontop]

Hopefully he's just distracted by the current circumstances because the other possibility of him having the yips is perilous.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Should have been dropped after the Barcelona away game at the latest.

He's made 3 or 4 mistakes since then and top 4 is now gone.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It's a difficult situation.

1. If you drop him now then he might take it as an insult and a sign of no belief/respect in his abilities - it might force him out the door.

2. If we carry on playing him he might end up costing us more points, and he might end up leaving anyway.

3. He might recover his form and thank Ole for believing in him and sign a new deal.

It's a big like football manager but you can't change your mind in a save.

I think Ole's playing it safe but it's quite clear David needs to be taken out the firing line. Tbh now the season is over it doesn't really matter, only for his own mentality if he messes up again he might never recover like Karius.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

One big worry with the De gea situation is Oles man management. The form from De Gea has been on a decline since January and yet there seem to be very little done about it. With a keeper this drop in form is also more obvious since you can't blame tactics and other factors.

Does Ole have what it takes to help turning players form around? Sometimes you need to drop a player. Other times you need to support them. Give them instructions to maybe focus on simple things and work on some key areas a bit more.

I guess some say a keeper is playing his own game a bit more than other players and I would agree with that. Although if they do and you can't help turn the form around then you just need to bloody drop them when they aren't performing.

 

[Full bodied red]

DDG is becoming our very own Joe Hart.

Praised to the heavens for a few years and now laughed at by everyone.

Dave....If you want to go, then just go because you certainly don't deserve the pay rise on this year's form.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

It used to take a decent bit of footballing knowledge or an ability to look beyond shot-stopping to notice that David De Gea might be overrated. Surely now though even his biggest fans must have doubts that he's the man to build our defence around and get us back to the top level.
I personally think giving him a new contract would be a massive mistake.

Let me attempt to avoid the usual accusations first of all by pointing out that this nothing personal against him, it's not an agenda, it's not a wind up and it's not me saying 'I told u so'.
I have no problem at all with De Gea's personality or professionalism, he seems like a really decent, down to earth lad, and if some of the other players had the same attitude then we'd be in a much better place.
This is purely a critique of his footballing ability and nothing else.
This is a passionate Man Utd fan who is giving an honest opinion on why I think De Gea was/is so overrated in the first place and why I think it's our number one priority to move him on NOW (that's if anyone else wants him at this point).

I have been saying ever since we signed De Gea that he's just not that good.
In his first season at least, that actually was the general opinion on him.
We conceded so many goals in his first season from crosses and set-pieces because he simply wasn't commanding enough in coming out and claiming crosses/set-pieces and wasn't vocal enough in organising the back four.
I'll be honest, I hadn't seen much of him playing for Atletico in Spain but, at this point, I was concerned that maybe he just wasn't cut out for the physicality of the Premier league.
Alex Ferguson obviously agreed as he was constantly taking him in and out of the side (unfortunately his replacement at this point, Lindergard wasn't much better).

In his second season, he undoubtedly got better, however it wouldn't have been that hard to improve on his first season.
In fact, I honestly think this improvement was slightly exaggerated, we still conceded over 40 league goals in this season, it's not like it was down to our solid defence that we won the league, it was mostly down to the signing of Robin Van Persie and us just going out and out-scoring teams.
However, the feel good factor of winning the league, combined with a 'slight' improvement masked over our continuing problems in defence and overhyped our keeper.

The Moyes and Van Gaal eras, now this is where the 'hype and over-rating' went into overdrive.
The Moyes era was that bad (not blaming De Gea for this BTW, Moyes was a disaster in his own right), and we went from perennial champions to a mid-table side practically over night, that literally the only good thing we had to cling onto that was that our keeper made the odd world class save.
The fact is, we had enjoyed almost 20 years of success, during which our keepers never really had to make that many saves, (although Schmeichel or VDS would have been much more capable of doing so anyway even if they had of been IMO) so this was all new territory for most fans.
We were watching our team get totally outclassed on an almost weekley basis now that us fans were coming away with no other positives apart from De Gea making the odd decent save (most of which were largely irrelevant as we didn't win anyway).
As I said, I honestly think this was the start of the 'hype and over-rating', because despite making a few great saves there was still no major improvements in equally important aspects of goal-keeping such as, as I said, being vocal/organising, coming out for crosses, distribution or coming out of his line. To this day, he still hasn't really improved on any of this.
A side note at this point, all throughout this time and since, I have tried, to no avail, to point out a quite unbelievable habit he has of sometimes not even bothering to attempt to save shots at all, instead choosing to simply watch the ball fly past him into the net (sometimes wide or over thankfully) before throwing his arms up in frustration as if to say 'what could I do?'.
Em, try and save it, maybe?
Fair enough, there will be the odd shot that you never had a chance at saving but you could at least try, no?
Plus, if you're the best keeper in the world, as people keep telling me he is, then surely he actually might save a few.

So, just to be clear, despite his reputation steadily growing over the Moyes/Van Gaal era, I personally still felt he had too many other flaws in his game to be considered 'top level' and certainly not 'the undisputed best' as many claim.
The inability to sense danger and come out of his line to clear or at least narrow the angle on 1 v 1s became really apparent to me during the Van Gaal era.
Van Gaal initially kept trying to play a high defensive line which meant we were often getting caught out with one long ball over the top.
Im not solely blaming De Gea here either BTW, it was probably a bad tactic anyway by Van Gaal but it didn't exactly help matters when De Gea was totally inept at sensing this danger and often just stayed rooted to his line.
Watch the highlights of the infamous 4-0 Mk Dons or 5-3 Leicester defeats for a few of the many examples of this.
His recent performance for Spain against Croatia in the nations league suggests he hasn't improved at all in this regard.
Again though, throughout both of these eras, there was little else to shout about aside from the odd decent De Gea save.

The Mourinhio era.
Not much chance of a high-line or attacking football here so this is probably when he was at his peak for us.
Whenever we were camped into our own box playing 'park the bus' football, then yes, this suited him because he didn't have to come out for crosses or off his line as much.
Plenty of clean sheets in this era but surely a big factor in that was how defensive we were playing, so is that what we should go back to then? Accept that we cannot take risks or press high because our keeper is so inept at coming off his line and reading the danger?
I personally would just rather try another keeper to be honest than watch those Mourinhio tactics ever again.

So these 4/5 seasons when he was our talisman, our player of the year and so on and so on.
What exactly did we achieve apart from mediocrity?
Is that his level then?
The biggest thing we did do in this era was win the Europa lg (and more importantly claim a champions league place because of it) and he had no part in that.
Even during the David Moyes era, he let us down at the most crucial moment with a horrific mistake against Sunderland in the league Cup semi final, we were seconds away from the final and he gifted Phil Bardsley an equaliser with an absolute howler.
I personally don't care that much about the league Cup and I'm not for one second suggesting that this was the sole reason David Moyes failed, but still, we would have played Man City in the final and who knows what could have happened.
It certainly would have been a huge moment for David Moyes, having never won a trophy, but De Gea denied him that by bottling it when it mattered.

This season then, when, for the first time since the Ferguson era, we were gaining momentum, playing good attacking football again and then boom, all that momentum was lost when Granit Xhaka had the audacity to put a slight bit of swerve on a shot and De Gea decided to move out of the road of it.
Much like the Wolves game that followed, and the game yesterday, we were bossing the match when he made those howlers, and even one win in any of those would have seen us comfortably in the top 4 now.
We would be lauding Ole as a genius, and now because of those individual errors people are saying he's out of his depth.
For not dropping him, maybe he is to be honest.
Even today, all im hearing in the 'mainstream' media is how Ole was right to stick by him the last few weeks.
How exactly?
He's stuck by him the last few weeks and his individual errors have cost us points in massive games so surely it's now a fact that he was wrong to stick by him, and it's too late now anyway, top 4 is gone.

In these big games then the last few weeks, arguably some of the biggest we've had in years, when we were playing at the elite level (Barcelona) and also being given the chance to return to the elite level by getting top 4, he's bottled it.
This was the time to be our leader, our talisman and he wasn't up to it, in fact he was so bad, he literally cost us the games, how is that acceptable?
You can clearly throw in the world cup with Spain in the summer also as another elite level balls up.

Ive heard all the excuses over the years but this latest one about the contract is utterly ridiculous by the way.
Even if his head is all over the place due to the contract issue (which there is no actual evidence for apart from the media telling us that's what's happening), how is that a viable excuse?
If he can't put that to one side, until the end of the season and concentrate on the job at hand, i.e. getting us top 4, isn't that a massive concern rather than a viable excuse?

To be clear, I'm not trying to say that the keeper is our only problem, not at all, but I am suggesting that it's our biggest problem right now.
I say that because, when it comes to the other problems in the squad, which for me, is average players such as Young, Smalling, Jones, Fred, Lingard and, more often than not, Pogba and Lukaku, people are aware of how ineffective they are.
When any of the above have a bad game, they get criticism for it (rightly) but when it comes to De Gea, all he gets his excuses made for him and, unbelievably, sympathy now because he's not getting paid enough apparently. Why is he excused? surely De Gea has to shoulder the blame like everybody else who underperformed?
If it's our defence that's a big problem right now then isn't he part of that defence?

Obviously I accept that perhaps our defenders are just that bad, I totally accept that that's a possibility however surely the debate has to be had now that De Gea isn't exactly helping them.
Can it just be a coincidence that literally every defender we have signed, since De Gea became our keeper, has struggled?
All of these defenders were decent prospects when we signed them, where they not?
Even Smalling and Jones were highly rated young defenders when we bought them.
So, are we just accepting then that it is indeed pure coincidence that, to a man, all of the defensive players we've signed in the last 8-9 years have been bad players?
That they've all had successfull careers up until we've signed them (and in some instances like Michael Keane and Daily Blind, after they've left also) but then they have all just coincidentally became bad defenders the moment they signed for us, pretty big coincidence if that is the case.

Another reason I consider this to be our biggest concern is because, as I have said along, it's not even De Gea's shot stopping that is the issue here, its all those other aspects of his game that's the main problem. So, even if he does get his confidence back and actually manages to save a shot (imagine) then, so what? All those other weaknesses are still there and, just like his shot stopping, aren't going to get any better with age.
For a while I just gave up trying to point this out because I got tired of hearing the same excuses, but the last few weeks have really just taken the piss, and, at such a crucial moment in the clubs history, with this rebuild coming.
I'm asking our fans to have a long hard think about this, do you really feel as though De Gea can be relied upon to build a solid defence around for the next five/six seasons and take us from mid-table mediocrity to mixing it with the elite again?
Evidence so far would suggest he's not, but knowing our club I can pretty much predict what is going on to happen.....
We will probably beat Huddersfield and Cardiff and De Gea will make a decent save and, despite the fact that's its too little too late, he will be hoisted back up there and proclaimed to be the best in the world again, then follows another five years of mediocrity with our £500,000 a week liability leading the defence.
Is it any wonder we're becoming the laughing stock of the football World?

When our fans, the mainstream media, our players and even our manager, respond to every mistake the keeper makes by repeating that there is still 'no question' he is the best keeper in the world and 'no question' that he should be starting, then I consider that a pretty big problem.
For me, the questions have always been there, and are now more relevant than ever.
This is such a crucial summer for us and I think our fans need to properly assess the situation before casually throwing about phrases like 'unquestionable' and 'best in the world', in my opinion, its precisely that sort of complacency that led us to the mediocrity we now find ourselves in.

 

[shamans]

It used to take a slight bit of footballing knowledge to notice that David De Gea is hugely overrated but surely now even the biggest footballing numpty on the planet should realise that he's just not cut out for the top level (which is were Utd should be aiming) and handing him a new contract would be a huge mistake.

Let me attempt to avoid the usual accusations first of all by pointing out that this nothing personal against him, it's not an agenda, it's not a wind up and it's not me saying 'I told u so'.
I have no problem at all with De Gea's personality or professionalism, he seems like a really decent, down to earth lad, and if some of the other players had the same attitude then we'd be in a much better place.
This is purely a critique of his footballing ability and nothing else.
This is a passionate Man Utd fan who is giving an honest opinion on why I think De Gea was/is so overrated in the first place and why I think it's our number one priority to move him on NOW (that's if anyone else wants him at this point).

I have been saying ever since we signed De Gea that he's just not that good.
In his first season at least, that actually was the general opinion on him.
We conceded so many goals in his first season from crosses and set-pieces because he simply wasn't commanding enough in coming out and claiming crosses/set-pieces and wasn't vocal enough in organising the back four.
I'll be honest, I hadn't seen much of him playing for Atletico in Spain but, at this point, I was concerned that maybe he just wasn't cut out for the physicality of the Premier league.
Alex Ferguson obviously agreed as he was constantly taking him in and out of the side (unfortunately his replacement at this point, Lindergard wasn't much better).

In his second season, he undoubtedly got better, however it wouldn't have been that hard to improve on his first season.
In fact, I honestly think this improvement was slightly exaggerated, we still conceded over 40 league goals in this season, it's not like it was down to our solid defence that we won the league, it was mostly down to the signing of Robin Van Persie and us just going out and out-scoring teams.
However, the feel good factor of winning the league, combined with a 'slight' improvement masked over our continuing problems in defence and overhyped our keeper.

The Moyes and Van Gaal eras, now this is where the 'hype and over-rating' went into overdrive.
The Moyes era was that bad (not blaming De Gea for this BTW, Moyes was a disaster in his own right), and we went from perennial champions to a mid-table side practically over night, that literally the only good thing we had to cling onto that was that our keeper made the odd world class save.
The fact is, we had enjoyed almost 20 years of success, during which our keepers never really had to make that many saves, (although Schmeichel or VDS would have been much more capable of doing so anyway even if they had of been IMO) so this was all new territory for most fans.
We were watching our team get totally outclassed on an almost weekley basis now that us fans were coming away with no other positives apart from De Gea making the odd decent save (most of which were largely irrelevant as we didn't win anyway).
As I said, I honestly think this was the start of the 'hype and over-rating', because despite making a few great saves there was still no major improvements in equally important aspects of goal-keeping such as, as I said, being vocal/organising, coming out for crosses, distribution or coming out of his line. To this day, he still hasn't really improved on any of this.
A side note at this point, all throughout this time and since, I have tried, to no avail, to point out a quite unbelievable habit he has of sometimes not even bothering to attempt to save shots at all, instead choosing to simply watch the ball fly past him into the net (sometimes wide or over thankfully) before throwing his arms up in frustration as if to say 'what could I do?'.
Em, try and save it, maybe?
Fair enough, there will be the odd shot that you never had a chance at saving but you could at least try, no?
Plus, if you're the best keeper in the world, as people keep telling me he is, then surely he actually might save a few.

So, just to be clear, despite his reputation steadily growing over the Moyes/Van Gaal era, I personally still felt he had too many other flaws in his game to be considered 'top level' and certainly not 'the undisputed best' as many claim.
The inability to sense danger and come out of his line to clear or at least narrow the angle on 1 v 1s became really apparent to me during the Van Gaal era.
Van Gaal initially kept trying to play a high defensive line which meant we were often getting caught out with one long ball over the top.
Im not solely blaming De Gea here either BTW, it was probably a bad tactic anyway by Van Gaal but it didn't exactly help matters when De Gea was totally inept at sensing this danger and often just stayed rooted to his line.
Watch the highlights of the infamous 4-0 Mk Dons or 5-3 Leicester defeats for a few of the many examples of this.
His recent performance for Spain against Croatia in the nations league suggests he hasn't improved at all in this regard.
Again though, throughout both of these eras, there was little else to shout about aside from the odd decent De Gea save.

The Mourinhio era.
Not much chance of a high-line or attacking football here so this is probably when he was at his peak for us.
Whenever we were camped into our own box playing 'park the bus' football, then yes, this suited him because he didn't have to come out for crosses or off his line as much.
Plenty of clean sheets in this era but surely a big factor in that was how defensive we were playing, so is that what we should go back to then? Accept that we cannot take risks or press high because our keeper is so inept at coming off his line and reading the danger?
I personally would just rather try another keeper to be honest than watch those Mourinhio tactics ever again.

So these 4/5 seasons when he was our talisman, our player of the year and so on and so on.
What exactly did we achieve apart from mediocrity?
Is that his level then?
The biggest thing we did do in this era was win the Europa lg (and more importantly claim a champions league place because of it) and he had no part in that.
Even during the David Moyes era, he let us down at the most crucial moment with a horrific mistake against Sunderland in the league Cup semi final, we were seconds away from the final and he gifted Phil Bardsley an equaliser with an absolute howler.
I personally don't care that much about the league Cup and I'm not for one second suggesting that this was the sole reason David Moyes failed, but still, we would have played Man City in the final and who knows what could have happened.
It certainly would have been a huge moment for David Moyes, having never won a trophy, but De Gea denied him that by bottling it when it mattered.

This season then, when, for the first time since the Ferguson era, we were gaining momentum, playing good attacking football again and then boom, all that momentum was lost when Granit Xhaka had the audacity to put a slight bit of swerve on a shot and De Gea decided to move out of the road of it.
Much like the Wolves game that followed, and the game yesterday, we were bossing the match when he made those howlers, and even one win in any of those would have seen us comfortably in the top 4 now.
We would be lauding Ole as a genius, and now because of those individual errors people are saying he's out of his depth.
For not dropping him, maybe he is to be honest.
Even today, all im hearing in the 'mainstream' media is how Ole was right to stick by him the last few weeks.
How exactly?
He's stuck by him the last few weeks and his individual errors have cost us points in massive games so surely it's now a fact that he was wrong to stick by him, and it's too late now anyway, top 4 is gone.

In these big games then the last few weeks, arguably some of the biggest we've had in years, when we were playing at the elite level (Barcelona) and also being given the chance to return to the elite level by getting top 4, he's bottled it.
This was the time to be our leader, our talisman and he wasn't up to it, in fact he was so bad, he literally cost us the games, how is that acceptable?
You can clearly throw in the world cup with Spain in the summer also as another elite level balls up.

Ive heard all the excuses over the years but this latest one about the contract is utterly ridiculous by the way.
Even if his head is all over the place due to the contract issue (which there is no actual evidence for apart from the media telling us that's what's happening), how is that a viable excuse?
If he can't put that to one side, until the end of the season and concentrate on the job at hand, i.e. getting us top 4, isn't that a massive concern rather than a viable excuse?

To be clear, I'm not trying to say that the keeper is our only problem, not at all, but I am suggesting that it's our biggest problem right now.
I say that because, when it comes to the other problems in the squad, which for me, is average players such as Young, Smalling, Jones, Fred, Lingard and, more often than not, Pogba and Lukaku, people are aware of how ineffective they are.
When any of the above have a bad game, they get criticism for it (rightly) but when it comes to De Gea, all he gets his excuses made for him and, unbelievably, sympathy now because he's not getting paid enough apparently. Why is he excused? surely De Gea has to shoulder the blame like everybody else who underperformed?
If it's our defence that's a big problem right now then isn't he part of that defence?

Obviously I accept that perhaps our defenders are just that bad, I totally accept that that's a possibility however surely the debate has to be had now that De Gea isn't exactly helping them.
Can it just be a coincidence that literally every defender we have signed, since De Gea became our keeper, has struggled?
All of these defenders were decent prospects when we signed them, where they not?
Even Smalling and Jones were highly rated young defenders when we bought them.
So, are we just accepting then that it is indeed pure coincidence that, to a man, all of the defensive players we've signed in the last 8-9 years have been bad players?
That they've all had successfull careers up until we've signed them (and in some instances like Michael Keane and Daily Blind, after they've left also) but then they have all just coincidentally became bad defenders the moment they signed for us, pretty big coincidence if that is the case.

Another reason I consider this to be our biggest concern is because, as I have said along, it's not even De Gea's shot stopping that is the issue here, its all those other aspects of his game that's the main problem. So, even if he does get his confidence back and actually manages to save a shot (imagine) then, so what? All those other weaknesses are still there and, just like his shot stopping, aren't going to get any better with age.
For a while I just gave up trying to point this out because I got tired of hearing the same excuses, but the last few weeks have really just taken the piss, and, at such a crucial moment in the clubs history, with this rebuild coming.
I'm asking our fans to have a long hard think about this, do you really feel as though De Gea can be relied upon to build a solid defence around for the next five/six seasons and take us from mid-table mediocrity to mixing it with the elite again?
Evidence so far would suggest he's not, but knowing our club I can pretty much predict what is going on to happen.....
We will probably beat Huddersfield and Cardiff and De Gea will make a decent save and, despite the fact that's its too little too late, he will be hoisted back up there and proclaimed to be the best in the world again, then follows another five years of mediocrity with our £500,000 a week liability leading the defence.
Is it any wonder we're becoming the laughing stock of the football World?

When our fans, the mainstream media, our players and even our manager, respond to evey mistake the keeper makes by repeating that there is still 'no question' he is the best keeper in the world and 'no question' that he should be starting, then I consider that a pretty big problem.
For me, the questions have always been there, and are now more relevant than ever.
This is such a crucial summer for us and I think our fans need to properly assess the situation before casually throwing about phrases like 'unquestionable' and 'best in the world', in my opinion, its precisely that sort of complacency that lead us to the mediocrity we now find ourselves in.

You in your long wall of post suggest that for a keeper, shot stopping is as important as "being vocal/organizing".

Look De Gea has been overrated a tad bit in the past (best ever etc) but to say he isn't cut out for top team level -- a joke.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

You in your long wall of post suggest that for a keeper, shot stopping is as important as "being vocal/organizing".

Look De Gea has been overrated a tad bit in the past (best ever etc) but to say he isn't cut out for top team level -- a joke.

What exactly is the problem with a long post?

Anyway, yes, it is very important and arguably, as important, 100% I would say that.
I'll ask you one question in an attempt to justify what I'm saying.
In any football match ever played, who has the best view of their own defence and can therefore be a huge help by communicating with them?

 

[lex talionis]

Some of these comments boggle the mind.

De Gea has made some mistakes recently, no question, but there is no keeper who has ever lived who didn’t make 2 or 3 mistakes in a single season.

If the concern is saving a few quid and thus opting for an inferior keeper, that’s fine, but we’d have a very hard time finding an upgrade on De Gea. It’s really that simple.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

David is having a bit of a rough time right now. That's fine. He's earned it by carrying the team for five years. Maybe he should start summer vacation early, get centred and come back refreshed and ready to remind us how good he is next season.

 

[Adnan]

Mark Ogden says De Gea is a out dated goalkeeper and is limited compared to Allison and Ederson. Andy Mitten also states that it's only United fans that call him the best in the world.

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[Jazz]

I was wondering about the argument that our shit defence hinders Dave. They certainly don’t help! However are we also saying that Ramos, Pique and whomever else for Spain are also as shit as our defenders? Dave makes mistakes with them in front of him. So not sure our defenders are solely to blame.

 

[Dancfc]

All of them (apart from Hart) were once great keepers in decline. Joe Hart was never great in the first place.

I disagree, Joe Hart circa 2012 was the best keeper in the league, quite comfortably (although granted he had little competition with Cech and Reina past their prime, DDG still raw and VDS retired). His prime is the only time ive felt comfortable with an England keeper since before Seaman's decline.

 

[FootyGirl88]

I was wondering about the argument that our shit defence hinders Dave. They certainly don’t help! However are we also saying that Ramos, Pique and whomever else for Spain are also as shit as our defenders? Dave makes mistakes with them in front of him. So not sure our defenders are solely to blame.

This is a good point, this is why I think it could be a good time to part ways.